Hard to say if something hasn't been fleshed out if I haven't watched the rest of the show (it may et elaborated on in Episode 2, or never elaborated on at all), but there are plenty of opportunities in this episode for Sougo to give his But Why Monarchy speech, and the closest he comes is vwing to be a good despot. The couple times a normal person tries to understand why he'd want to be something so ridiculous/unhealthy, he sort of shrugs his shoulders? It's not that it seems like his motivation is hidden -- which would be fine! -- it's that it seems like he isn't motivated at all?

Wow, that's super weird! She comes across as a genuinely good person with an actual strategy, which makes her one of the most interesting characters in the premiere.

Every single time someone suggests that Demon King is somehow better (or different! In any way!) than Good Tyrant, I just want to post this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2c-X8HiBng

Like, declaring yourself to be King -- Demon or otherwise -- is a very bad thing! It's like having a dream of owning a sweatshop. It's not the impossibility or the anachronistic parts that bother me, it's that it's an immoral thing to want to be.

(opens Oma Advent Calendar and gestures dramatically)

IWAE! Sharing opinions and bringing the Kamen Rider community together, the one who will review every episode of every season of Heisei Rider. His name is Kamen Rider Die. And he has now reached the final installment.

....

But before I can give my thoughts on Zi-O, I have a promise to keep from the Decade thread.

Blade King Form and Armed Hibiki both destroyed the same giant monster with a single blow. However, Blade's finisher was more stylish (most Final Forms are more stylish than Armed Hibiki), so I ultimately have to agree with you here. Blade is the most qualified for this specific fight.

And yeah, that means I have now watched all 20 Heisei Rider seasons!

If you're updating the threads in reverse-chronological order, then why did you skip Den-O?

I mean, there's a lot of free estate in Antarctica. If Sougo moved there and claimed a piece of land for himself, he could declare himself king. Sure, none of the major countries would take him seriously, but maybe that's his best shot at becoming a king, other than using the power of magic watches?

Regarding why he wants to become a king, well there is a reason for that. But Sougo isn't always the most open about his feelings and doesn't really feel the need to justify his intentions to people he just met. What's important though is that becoming a king is Sougo's dream, no matter how absurd it sounds. So when he replies to the revelation that his future self is a demon king, by saying he's going to become the greatest kindest demon king, I think that's just his way of saying he's going to follow his dream, which can be a symbol of heroic determination. There's a hint of sarcasm to his declaration, like he's rejecting what Geiz and Tsukuyomi are saying as he believes in the altruism of his dream and that giving up his dream isn't an action befitting of a future king. It's like he says, he was born to be king, so it isn't really a choice, or an action that some time travelling weirdos can make him reconsider. It's something he feels like he just has to do. He lives in the moment, so he's not going to let their dystopian future get in the way of his present.

Haha, yeah, she does that.

Anyway, there's a cool and macabre detail at the end of the episode where Geiz Ghost Armor Time summons the Parka Ghosts to fight Zi-O. One of them is Takeru's own soul, Ore Parka. Which makes sense considering that Oma Zi-O killed all the Riders.

It's a catchy song! I like how Faiz is the first Rider visible in the foreground of that time-frozen shot. Regarding the bikes, you really have to take whatever bike action you can get in this show.

Literally forgot! I was a few posts into fixing Kabuto before I went Wait The Train One. Definitely felt like Yuuto wiped the Den-O thread from my brain.

That last line of your Sougo defense would probably be the first line in my prosecution of Sougo. Him disregarding the potential intensely negative consequences of his actions is-- is bad! Is very bad! To have a character start down a path that could lead towards genocide for reasons that amount to A Gut Feeling, and look two people in the face and go Sucks To Be You? That's not what I want from my title character in the first episode! Anything but that!

(Like, the problem for me with Sougo continues to be that his reactions are all massively minor. The show goes to steps to make the stakes of this story crystal clear, and Sougo's, like, Meh. He doesn't seem to be treating this series with the same concern as literally every other character, and I really dislike it. Hopefully that changes!)

She's also the 'wooden' type of character (outside of impersonating Sougo bit) which is the one that can be accused as having "no personality" (in reality there's no such thing as that), opposite of the likes of Woz which is the over the top type. The intro even only had her walking and staring... compared to Sougo checking up on the clock or Geiz being battle-worn and wiping up the blood and torn clothing. I̶ ̶a̶l̶s̶o̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶t̶a̶l̶k̶e̶d̶ ̶a̶b̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶h̶o̶w̶ ̶s̶h̶e̶'̶s̶ ̶a̶b̶o̶v̶e̶ ̶g̶e̶n̶u̶i̶n̶e̶l̶y̶ ̶g̶o̶o̶d̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶'̶s̶t̶r̶a̶t̶e̶g̶y̶'̶ ̶r̶e̶l̶a̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶s̶a̶i̶d̶ ̶m̶o̶r̶a̶l̶.̶

I refer to something like y'know, Dark Kiva, the name and quite the design quite screams the evil counterpart of Kiva or such, though it's true with how King used it. But then Dark Kiva is used by Otoya and Taiga after redemption, who used the form for good, but the name and the design stays. Also even Kiva itself stands for King Vampire. Dark Kiva is far from the only example of power that looked demonic/dark outwardly.

That part is about appreciating and praising her btw :p.

Personally, on my "Stuff I Didn't Like About Zi-O" and "Stuff I Liked About Zi-O" lists (and yes, the latter does exist), Tsukoyomi is... kind of absent from both. I always tend to think of her "inoffensively present" most of the time.

Yeah. Her main issue is that while they have an arc for her, it depended entirely on a design for ?the resolution? and it took them over half the series to settle on one, at least according to an interview with the writer and producer in the official Mook.

Zi-O is a really special Kamen Rider series to me for a lot of reasons. Er, uh, well I guess they *all* are, but you know what I mean. I'll try and reminisce about as many of those reasons as I can as the thread moves along, and to start off with, I'm introducing my own regular feature for this thread -- a little something I like to call...

(Fish Sandwich also watched Kamen Rider Zi-O - EP01)

See, one of the biggest things about Zi-O that gives it such a big place in my heart is the experience of posting my thoughts every week in the episode threads at the time. I feel that was more or less where I truly started solidifying how I like to write these sorts of things. I posted in every Ex-Aid episode thread, but a lot of those were just bullet-pointed lists of whatever minor thoughts. In Build's case, I ended up skipping out on a solid handful of episodes. But for Zi-O, I made it a point to really try and dig into the show each week as best I could, and you'll see that as the show went along, I generally got more thorough about it.

...And you'll see it fairly easily too, if you're already reading this, because just like above, I'm planning on making a link to those posts with each episode Die gets to. There'll be some orphaned references to chatter from other users here and there, but I don't know, just take that as an excuse to dig through the entire thread or something. I mean, if you actually care what my raw impressions of Zi-O from 3+ years ago were, you'd probably find everyone else's interesting too.

The funny thing is though, I don't at all remember why I was so eager to attach myself to Zi-O from the outset? Off the top of my head, the only thing I vividly remember about the pre-airing hype window of the show was how profound it felt when I realized that Zi-O -- the guy with "Kamen Rider" literally written on his face -- seemed downright plain after the designs we had been getting in the back half of the Heisei Era. More specifically, it made me realize how far Ex-Aid had actually pushed things. Basically no lead Rider design reveal could ever faze me again.

Perhaps I was simply caught up in the whole end of an era hype or something. I do know a lot of things about the series seemed extremely interesting though, and I was definitely excited to see where all this madness was going. As such, I really enjoyed the premiere. Me and Zi-O got off on the right foot, for sure... but I wasn't too sure about that Sougo kid.

Die, I'm not going to push back too hard on your opinion of the premiere, because I was actually in a similar position too, but I will say, while the kind of things you're asking for would've made for a much better premiere, I firmly believe they also would've made for a far less unique and interesting series. All that weird stuff about Sougo, it's part of his mystique. Your critiques of him are things I would unironically praise (*especially* the contradictory nature of being a good evil king), and hopefully you'll learn to see that other side of him in time too. I've got a feeling this'll work out! ;)

Oh, and while this won't necessarily be a regular thing again, there's one particular thing about Zi-O I know I was *super* hyped about, and that's who was doing the soundtrack. Toshihiko Sahashi helped create this era of Rider on Kuuga, he continued that work on Agito, applied his musical talent yet again to Hibiki, gifted Den-O with an incredibly distinctive tone, and finally, he saw the Heisei Era of Kamen Rider to a close by providing the background music for this show as well. It's great. It's Sahashi, so of course it is. And right now, I'd just like to share Zi-O's basic theme music, and note how perfect it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9EBSb-9NfQ

Sahashi nailed the whole maou vibe by giving Zi-O's motif that distinctly Egyptian sorta sound that instantly brings to mind a sense of royalty and grandeur, and more than that, the thing I utterly adore about the tracks directly associated with Zi-O is that they basically completely eschew any sort of traditionally heroic sound entirely. It was especially glaring coming off of Build, too, how rather than triumphant and energetic, Zi-O's fight music is often more foreboding than anything. Like, I really can't stress this enough -- it's pretty much an ideal musical summation of the sense of simultaneous wonder of Sougo's present, and the uneasy dread of his future.

Gonna say, yeah, he currently doesn't understand the severity of his ambitions are for the moment. It's not until a certain guest rider does he do that

Yo I know we're really all excited to start Zi-O together, but I think we need to cool down a bit? This post and some others are really pushing the boundaries of the "no teasing/no spoilers" rule, yknow?

I only saw the first two episodes of Zi-O myself and one of the major positives I will give it, at least from what very little I’ve seen of it so far, is the show’s soundtrack. It’s pretty stuck inside my mind long afterwards.

Glad to know he isn't just like that, but we're actually gonna figure out why Sougo is detached from others it seems.

Aww, this was really nice to read! I love hearing how these shows affected people, what drew them to one show over another, that sort of thing.

My schedule's all over the place today, and I'm not going to get a chance to crack into Episode 2 for another couple hours, so let me spend a few minutes talking about something from the first episode that... it's maybe nothing, I'm probably reading too much into it, but Fish's reminiscence got me thinking about it again.

Decade was a series that was about the stories of Heisei: the tones and morals and drama. It was an anniversary series that interrogated fandoms, and talked about why we carry these stories with us, long after they've ended.

With Zi-O... it seems to be about the difference between history and History; how the people that we mythologize are so much messier than the stories we tell about them. Zi-O's doing that with how it handles its Legend Rider content. It isn't (Seemingly! From one episode!) about the cast running through a synopsis of a series; it's having Sougo meet Build and Cross-Z. It's the difference between being told about heroes or actually hearing from them directly.

Like, that's an interest of mine, hearing individual perspectives instead of getting majority talking points, and it feels like Zi-O could share that same interest.

I appreciate you watching my back! I haven't heard anything that's gotten my brain going, but better safe than sorry.

(That said! It's fairly typical, to my memory, for these threads to start off with a lot of overview-style comments. That tends to peter out as we get into more contained storytelling. Things will feel a lot less spoiler-y in a day or two.)

The music is something that rarely sticks out to me, and I don't love trying to write about it, but I can always count on a few people to more than cover that end of the series for me. Feel free to chime in if certain songs make their debut!

KAMEN RIDER ZI-O EPISODE 2 - “BEST MATCH 2017”

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/zio/zio2a.png

It’s an episode that’s super dedicated to plot mechanics and series mythology, about half of which I outright didn’t understand.

Thankfully, it stays away from the aspects of Sougo’s personality I really disliked from last time, so it’s an overall decent episode. The character relationships were solid, the action was fun, and the Legend Rider stuff was well executed. As twenty-odd minutes of tokusatsu, it was fine.

Like, our core trio is one I sort of get now? (Mostly because no one talked about Friendly Fascism or whatever, but still!) Tsukuyomi and Geiz are both very Let’s See Where This Goes about the whole future tyranny thing, which is maybe less pragmatic than I’d’ve expected (despite Geiz’z stated desire to immediately murder Sougo; not quite a Best Match yet), but refreshingly generous. I guess when you’re surrounded by time machines/Mazines, there’s no real hurry? Better to wait and be certain.

And Sougo’s whole Helpful Idiot routine is… god, it’s okay? I liked it okay. He’s not anything special, which is an aspect to his personality that I find the most compelling -slash- agreeable. Him as some well-meaning but hapless everyman? That’s something I can really get behind. There’s a point when he’s doing the Vortex Time Break and all of the normal genius equations are now rudimentary and, at times, not technically math. It’s a smart move, that kind of lead Rider. It’s disarming, for one, in that it’s enormously difficult to hate on someone so dopey. It’s churlish to call someone out for personality defects when they’re already so disadvantaged, you know? And for another thing, it allows the stronger personalities of our guests to provide stability and growth for our Clueless Conqueror.

Build and Cross-Z! They’re very fun in this episode. Certainly acting as a beacon for this show’s odd couple Riders, and only mostly making the new show feel slighter in comparison. (Like, dang, I don’t know if giving Sento and Banjou so much screentime is great for establishing how cool your new leads are! Tough to measure up!) They’re fun to have around, even if they’re basically comedy relief. That’s okay! Them two kids are real funny together!

It’s just, boy, mostly didn’t understand the time travel shenanigans in this one?

Like, I do not get the Altering Time aspect of this story – and the mechanics behind it – even a little. Like, Sento is now and always has been Takumi? How– how does that even work? How does the world not end multiple times over? Why is no one horrified at that outcome? Is this the status quo for these characters now? I don’t understand the very convoluted explanation this show gave me!

The Time Jackers are a little bit easier to come to terms with, because they’re just, like, villainous Geiz and Tsukuyomi? They’re trying to undo Oma Zi-O’s rise, but just to secure the throne for someone else. I don’t – even slightly – understand how creating random Another Rider monsters helps accomplish that, but I am at least clear on what their objective is.

This plot, for the series… it’s Time Nonsense again, unfortunately, obviously. If I focus on character motivations (except Sougo’s!), there’s clarity to the storytelling. Geiz and Tsukuyomi want to avert a terrible future. Woz wants to ensure the future, terrible or otherwise. The Time Jackers want to take the future for themselves (?). Sougo is caught between these various competing agendas. (This is a role for Sougo that I like!) I get it, and I’m onboard.

But every single time someone tried to explain the minutiae of how these goals were going to be achieved, within a scene, I completely lost the thread. I can’t tell if the characters don’t know how to explain it, or the writer doesn’t know how to explain it. It was my least-favorite part of this episode.

The rest was good, though. Or, good enough, at least.

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/zio/zio2b.png
https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/zio/zio2c.png

—

KAMEN RIDER ZI-O COMPLEMENTATION PROJECT EPISODE 2.5 - “RULES OF THE WORLD”

LITERALLY THE NEXT THING THAT GETS TALKED ABOUT. Jesus.

I don’t know if this was a huge help! It’s two-thirds clever details that make the previous episode’s plot more coherent (only one Build at a time, you can only defeat Another Rider with that Rider’s powers) and one-third A Wizard Did It.

It– it really wants to have its nerd cake and eat it, too. It wants to have firm guidelines about what the cause and effect of these time alteration stories are, while still relegating a random amount of cause and effect questions to snarky avoidance. Like, this is the problem with Time Nonsense. You only get a certain amount of narrative waffling, and you can’t overuse it, or none of it is worth investing in. You can’t ask people to pay attention to weird details and complicated causality, and then at least once an episode be like We’re Just Trying To Have Fun Here Brainiac.

I don’t know how great this show’s going to work for me! This random-ass Certain Things Don’t Matter But We’ll Tell You Which Ones Later shit is going to super-duper get on my nerves!

Sort of freaking out over this “explainer”!

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/zio/ziocp2a.png

Thankfully, in my opinion, Build's thing with how it handles time is the worst part, so we're finally past that now.

It's... Adult Circumstances as our dear Shirakura puts it.

Also, did you like Sento and Banjou transforming? Great! Savor it.

It is borderline insulting to have such a convoluted episode end with I Guess Sento Never Existed SEE YOU NEXT TIME FOR EX-AID. I don't know if that's the note you want to go out on? If you don't want people who watched Build to be tearing their hair out in frustration?

This, I honestly don't care about? I don't need to see the Legend Riders actually Henshin. Hanging out with our cast is more than enough for me. Suit appearances are easy! Actor appearances are far more precious.

Sento and Banjo are very much "there" for these episodes and I don't really mind that much? Purely because them being there for the introduction to everything works well since we just got off their show. We don't need anything too meaningful.

I know the "turn your brain off" is a bit of an overused excuse but as i've learned with a lot of time travel stuff via watching.. uh... time travel is not a straight line nor should be approached like one! So it might be best to just go with the flow as one puts it.

Anyway, time for my bit, in which I'm only including the links and not hyperlinking them because I don't want a giant grey block on my posts. This time we can get Excite as we watch the preview to the start of the next arc!

Zero's Legend Episode Previews Corner - EP 3 Preview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4n7Cu3BK0I

Yeah, the two of them can coast on charm pretty far, as it turns out. I appreciate them blessing the show the way they did!

It'll probably be the same thing I had to do for Den-O: Just focus on the character relationships, and then whine like a baby every dozen episodes when the entire plot becomes devoted to explaining Time Nonsense.

I actually want to spend more time with our core trio/quartet, so that's promising, at least!

Episode 2 time <3

-Geiz's proper introduction! I love that his suit has more of a digital watch aesethic than Zi-O's being more of a analog watch. Also love how he's already so done with Time Jacker nonsense, he's got a mission to fufill damnit! He doesn't get to do much in this episode since the show already got its hands full trying to explain this season's gimmick, but I do enjoy the bits we did get of him this episode.

.......Speaking of season gimmicks, we are properly(?) introduced to the Time Jackers, Another Riders, and the way our tributes/forms will work in Zi-O! The Time Jackers' deal is really fun idea: offering up contracts to lengthen the "time" of those struck with tradegy, in exchange of becoming a King candiate for them.

As for our tributes and Ride Armor, I'd like to go back to a quote from the opening's intro:

The legacy of the Heisei Kamen Riders has carried on throughout the era. And now they pass their power onto the next generation!

I remember what I expected from this quote when I heard it in EP 1 for the first time: Like Decade, Sougo would probably have to prove himself somehow (to the original Rider? Time itself lol? idk) that he was worthy of that Rider's power before he would he be able to use it. What we actually have is something much more.....um......different? Those Ridewatches sure do work in mysterious ways!

-Bulid's definitely one of the weaker tribute arcs, having to be the "tutorial level" and all. Nice seeing our Best Match duo again (it's been ages since I've seen anything Bulid), but I felt like they didn't really do much here? I wouldn't say its a wasted appearance or anything, just a bit underutilized in my opinion.

-Sougo! Congratulations(????) on your first step towards conquest! I feel like we kinda breezed through the whole "Using the Ridewatch effectively erases the existence of that Rider!" thing, considering its implications? (Though probably intentional on Woz's part, lol). *Slightly* a bit more tolerable here since they're leaning into the well-meaning but not quite bright hero here, but he's still kinda an enigma for me at this stage.

-This might suck, but I cannot stress enough how important Rule #3 is. I think Zi-O's time stuff is something where you just have to take it at face value and roll with whatever they give you? If you start thinking about Zi-O's timeline too hard, you'll end up in a labyrinth, and I'm not quite sure you'll be able to get out, even with our help lol.


(............Also can we talk about how oddly adorable Another Bulid running up and hugging Banjou since theyre a Best Match, as well as Sento's jealousy, it's great. I can't remember if the rest of the Another Riders have little moments where they emulate the original Rider or is it an early-series quirk where they don't have all the rules set down on how these guys work yet lol)

Also! I like how Zi-O's watchband is this premium metallic finish -- high-end watch -- while Geiz'z watchband is a tactical carbon finish. One suit looks like royalty, one suit looks like military. I like that design touch!

I didn't even mind him in this story! He's got more of an agreeable everyman vibe here, where he's happy to go along with whatever insane thing someone says to him next. He's really Yes Anding this whole ludicrous experience, and I dig it. Just never mention being a good despot again, and we'll continue to get along!

If I could get through a season of Sakurai's Time Nonsense on Den-O and still consider Yuuto one of my all-time favorite characters, I can weather this storm.

See, I enjoyed Den-O a lot and I just never cared at all about how much the time travel stuff might occasionally (or often) not make sense, and I was all ready to just roll with the nonsense in Zi-O too. But Zi-O's 2.5 kind of rubs me the wrong way because if you're going to acknowledge that it's all just nonsense anyway, then maybe don't spend so much screentime trying to make to 'explain' it or make it sound like it'll be a big deal? My biggest hope for the show from there on was that they didn't linger on that stuff...

Not much else to say for episode 2 though! Like you said, it's a just a fun little tokusatsu romp with a pair of guest stars. One iconic duo of clashing personalities with the next hopefully to be just as iconic. While it's on my mind, I really do like the designs of Zi-O and Geiz. The watch motif has over time registered as being really cool to me. I like the mostly slick look they both have, and I think they manage to remain slick even with the bulkier Armor Times on top of them.

Absolutely criminal that they made a Zi-O Build Armor SHFiguarts but not one for Geiz Ghost Armor though >: O

So here we are at the second part. After I watched part 1, one day in January of 2019, the fact it ended on a cliffhanger pretty much compelled me to go on to the next one.

As for the whole Riders erased by Another Riders. I’ve seen some people complain about it, but I personally like it. It adds some actual stakes for the bad guys and some actual consequences for the heroes (Or did you think Geiz got the Ghost Ridewatch off the back of a cereal box?) and I much prefer it to how Gokaiger handled de powering it’s heroes (after spending 3 minutes beating up mooks, every Super Sentai decides that they’re losing and decides to do a combined energy attack. Which accomplished little in the long term, since the army that sent the mooks came back anyway).

And as for our Time Jackers… don’t expect too much elaboration on them (the show went through so many rewrites they had little time to give them their intended backstory of “survivors from alternate timelines that Ohma Zi-O destroyed). As for etymology, Heure (not sure how your subs spelled it, but I know Over-Time initially rendered it as “Wool”) is simply French for “hour”.

Join us tomorrow when Sougo and Geiz investigate a mysterious disease typed to a video game and encounter… I’m sorry, I seem to have watched a little far ahead.

Yeah, a lot of the hate for Zi-O comes from how its time travel mechanics are kinda... messy, to say the least. I managed to big-brain-theory my way around it, and I don't think it's a bad thing to try and have some consistent way the universe works so the audience knows the stakes, but when those rules are confusing as hell...

Also, this is all of us trying to convince Die Sougo gets better: https://youtube.com/watch?v=4ikGvLUbOuU

Trying to write a defence of his character based on the first two episodes is tough, but I think there's value to be had in his childlike naivety making him justs come across as a child (without, you know, actually having an 8 year old Rider lik the last anniversary show). He wants to be a King much for the same reason a child might - because it's cool, and he'd definitely make people happy - and doesn't quite see how anyone could disagree. It's a point I feel's made better in future episodes (and as Switchblade said, the first episode is throwing enough things at you), but it goes some interesting places. It also has the side effect of making Sougo feel much, much younger than any other Rider for me!

The real crime was not getting Geiz Drive and Wizard armor!

The end of the second episode for me describes what I feel about what ZI-O is trying to say about legacy that these people are who they are no matter what even if it's impossible. That we'd rather focus on the person rather than powers. And also to reassure people that no the Heisei Riders are going permenatly deleted from existence that they will come back.

https://i.ibb.co/xgrCbjh/Screenshot-20220312-073337.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/Br18BdF/Screenshot-20220312-073344.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/9hKPrf7/Screenshot-20220312-073352.jpg

Ah... ZI-O... My sixth favorite Rider show, my favorite cast in Rider, my second favorite Main Rider, and the first show I watched start to finish live...

This is a show that means a lot to me and I simply adore, especially for how stellar the characters are, and made me cry for them multiple times...

The first six episodes all suck! Like straight up. They really struggle with the format and a lot of the character beats that are there are easily missed under all the exposition and weirdness. Even if they work way better on a rewatch since you are able to pick them up under all the... stuff, it doesn't change the fact I don't consider them good episodes.

Also, yeah, I had the exact same opinion of Sougo as you do at this time. A complete idiot who I'm surprised can tie his shoes in the morning with a dumb and stupid goal I could never take seriously.

So... Yeah, just wait and things will most likely change on that front :D

But I say this much, I feel like this is the reading of the character they wanted to push at this point... And it has a point.

Yeah, I'll definitely admit the first set of episodes are... I wouldn't say terrible, but they are a bit rough around the edges because of what they have to do. Though I do feel as though things smooth out and get a lot more interesting in terms of episode plots when we reach a certain point. Mostly in them finally finding a handle on things despite the very, and I mean very fluid and unstable nature of how they handled this series.

Just like with the Decade thread, I'm following along. Sadly, however, I can't do the bit I wanna do for this until a later episode, having only seen half of Neo-Heisei and most of Phase 1.

So instead of just copypasting all that I said on Discord, I'll just try to keep my thoughts short:

-This was my first exposure to Build and Cross-Z, and yeah, I was able to easily see why people ship these two.

-Had alot of fun with this two parter! Pretty much every aspect of the characters and the story was really clear cut(the only thing I misinterpreted was why Another Build kept getting revived), the music is good, the action and directing is really nice(especially in the opening), and almost every actor brings great charisma to their characters(Sogo included)!

In other words, I already like this show way more than Decade. It actually has a protag that I don't wanna toss into a raging river whenever he so much as opens his mouth. What a novelty!

We get our 2nd episode bike debut, and here's a picture just to remind you of Zi-O's bike which is totally a thing that exists:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DjCmDdwXoAAyHWA.jpg

Can someone explain to me how Geiz's Rider Kick works? Does he like...lock you into a predestined Rider Kick that you can't avoid when he hits the stone version of you even if you run away from it or avoid it?

I'm never quite sure how I feel about the Ride Armors. I like that they're different than Decade wholesale transforming into the Rider and that they come up with creative ways of combining the Zi-O Riders with the look of past Main Riders, but they're a little clunky and excessive design-wise. But still cool.

Bascially Geiz creates a small lag in time and the enemy is seeing slightly ahead of the future trying to escape it but can't.

It just really cool effect though playing with the show theme of time.

This gets into one of my biggest problems with the show and one of the things that really put me off about it initially. I like the idea of the Another Riders stealing the originals’ powers and subsequently erasing their established history. It’s a good gimmick for an anniversary season that has a time travel element as it gives the hero a purpose behind all of these crossovers. The part that never sat right with me, though, is that the show doesn’t go with the logical extension of this idea, which would be having Sougo get the Ridewatches and restore the original timeline. Instead he just keeps the powers for himself, leaving us with stuff like Sentai and Banjou: Ordinary Dorks.

I suppose, on reflection, that it does tie into the idea that Zi-O may not be the hero you expect him to be. I?m kind of just realizing that as I type this. In hindsight, that does fix some of my issues from a narrative standpoint. It doesn’t fix my issues with the way some of the earlier guest appearances worked, though. I’ll dive into that more in a few episodes, though.

Anyway, this episode does properly introduce my least favorite aspect of Zi-O (technically, it was in the first episode, but not in the way that makes it really stand out). I’m talking, of course, about Geiz’s tactical dickie. I am not a fan of Geiz’s battle jammies at the best of times, but then he showed up at the end of this episode in normal civvies but still wearing the fucking dickie, buckles and all. I don’t know if the producers thought kids wouldn’t recognize him or Tsukoyomi without a piece of their normal costumes, but the fact that Geiz wears that thing with every outfit is ridiculous. It is the dumbest fashion decision in all of Kamen Rider, and this a franchise that includes both Shunpei and the 1970s. I have a lot of issues with Geiz, which I have mentioned before and will do so again in this thread, but the tactical dickie is by far the worst element of the character.

(Fish Sandwich also watched Kamen Rider Zi-O - EP02)

When I started my post on the first episode that way, it was just a bit. When I was waffling on whether or not to make the same joke the next week, I was torn because I realized I'd be creating an obligation for myself to repeat that gag 40+ more times. But you know, it was also convenient. Having that guaranteed place to start writing from without having to think about it too much. Just find a screenshot I like enough, and go from there. I have to imagine it's a similar deal for Die?

Anyways, on the subject of the actual episode itself, while you can see in my original post that I was never hesitant to express the sense of trepidation I got from Zi-O even as I was massively enjoying it, there was one particular nagging thought I'm not sure I ever really brought up anywhere at the time.

You see, I got into Kamen Rider by watching the first few episodes of OOO, Kuuga, and Ryuki in a very short window. They're collectively my "first" show, and there's one thing they all have in common about how they started gripping me -- the second episode. Yuusuke in that burning church, declaring his intent to protect people's smiles; Shinji ripping up that card, putting his own life at risk to protect others; Eiji refusing to be Aknh's mindless servant even as he's about to fall off a building to his own death. The premieres for each of those shows established the world, but I think it's in the episode that followed where they truly established their heroes, and because that was my formative experience with the franchise, it's something I've come to expect from every Rider show I've watched since. Putting it in terms of Ex-Aid, for example, because I love to do that in these threads, you've got a second episode that ends with Emu deciding to stick with CR as a Rider specifically because he doesn't like Brave, looking straight at Hiiro and saying he doesn't trust a doctor like him to care about patients the way he does. And in that moment, just like the three I mentioned, I gained a lot of respect for the star of the show.

So then, Zi-O comes along, and you've got Sougo's whole speech about making time move for yourself in this episode. Looking at it in the broad strokes, it's another example of exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about -- Sougo defining what his beliefs are and how that becomes his driving motivation as a hero -- except, for the life of me, I just couldn't really get a grasp on it at the time. Saying it felt "hollow" wouldn't exactly be right, but like, when you see Kuuga in that church, you are rooting for that dude to save people 150%, you know? I wasn't feeling that for Zi-O in that moment. It was one of the things that made me genuinely worried, if only a little, that this show was going to end up being underwhelming and messy in the long run. But as you can also see in my original post, I was kinda watching Zi-O with a lot of faith? Like Sougo saying "nanka ikeru ki ga suru!!", I took it all in stride, considering the more positive possibility that by the time the show was over, a speech like that would feel like a crucially important part of how Zi-O established its running themes and messages. And you know, I can't say anything too explicit about how that turned out right now, but I will say that I was glad I always kept this scene in mind as the show moved forward.

...

Also! I'm going to forget to bring this up if I don't right now, and since you just got done with his initial set of episodes, I wanna give a shout out to Ryuuta Tasaki's direction for being up to the extremely high standard he always meets. There was a bunch of talk about the opening I didn't comment on, but yeah, I liked Over Quartzer as soon as I heard it, finding it an interesting contrast to Journey Through The Decade in its tone, and then I saw the visuals that go with it, and I liked it even more than I already did. There's just nothing like a good Tasaki opening. Actually, I've been reminiscing about myself a bunch, but I'd kinda like to turn back the clock on Tasaki for a moment too, and bring up just how long he's been directing some of the most stylish opening in Toei's tokusatsu shows. His first main director gig was for Seijuu Sentai Gingaman way back in 1998, but the year before that, he was apparently responsible for the opening of Denji Sentai Megaranger, and while it doesn't look like the credits explicitly mention that anywhere(?), when I first found that out, it was like a big puzzle piece falling into place.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_1nvV8SzaE

Like, of course Megaranger's opening is one of my favorites in the franchise visually, if it was Tasaki's work. Of course it's cut in such a modern and energetic way that still holds up even now. Of course it manages to get across key traits of the main characters in just a couple shots each. Of course it's so stylish and just downright cool. You give this guy a song that already slaps, and he'll make it even cooler for you. This is very much the case with Zi-O's opening, which has loads of neat visuals, a couple of which end up holding more meaning that it seems like at first. It's also one of the few places you're going to consistently see Zi-O and Geiz on their Ride Strikers! Their poor, poor, neglected Ride Strikers...

Thankfully, these shows never seem to linger on the series arc mechanics. Between the main thematic goal of any of the franchise (To Sell Toys), the individual themes a series might want to talk about (history vs History; the ways we have to keep trying, even if things look bleak), the big guest-stars, the growing supporting cast... like, there's only a little time in the later series to even address Time Nonsense. It sucks now, today, but it's probably not going to be a huge chunk of an episode weekly.

It sucks now, though!

I'm okay with Build being depowered for the middle of this story, but... is Build's power gone forever? As long as Zi-O has the RideWatch? Is that what's happening? I am honestly unclear!

I'm better with him in this episode, because he comes off like more of a bumbler, and that's a character trait I find more charming than Potential War Criminal But In A Good Way. Seeing him be not super great at anything he's asked to do in this episode (including remember Sento's catchphrase for four seconds!) was a more entertaining use of his character than the stuff from the premiere.

Also, Sougo's incredibly poor grasp of the mathematical formulas that power Kamen Rider Build reminded me of this sketch (since we're posting funny YouTube videos):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGjKL9UZiMU

That is good to know! My reading on it was a lot less optimistic!

I am excited to see a more positive version of Sougo! Although, honestly, I think his character in Episode 2 is leaps and bounds better than Episode 1, since they pretty much (for reasons of expediency or lack of time) choose to ignore the weirder choices they made with his character in the premiere. He comes across less delusional, and more as just some sorta-aimless, sorta-sweet kid. Worked for me!

Oh, sure. The people making the show are watching the same episodes we are. They can't feel like they hit a bullseye on these two. Stuff works on the page, but doesn't work on the day. Stuff works on the day, but gets ruined in the edit. A performer hasn't yet locked in on how they see their character. Premiere stories are really hard! It's often not until the fifth or sixth episode when a show really becomes itself, when the production team starts writing toward the actors (instead of the characters) and a better balance is found.

These thing, appropriately enough, take time.

I'm glad you're enjoying it! We... had very opposite experiences!

Thank you for letting me mention that this wasn't just a Build tribute, it was a tribute to the very early Heisei Era when a Kamen Rider would ride a motorcycle for a scene or two in each episode. Fun callback! Deep cut!

It honestly funny that ZI-O an anniversary season of Kamen Rider has the least used bike in all of Rider history.

https://i.redd.it/mv5tmf2dlop71.jpg

Sougo's Build Vortex Time Break aren't merely "not technically math", but as an idiot everyman who can be out of touch with reality at times.... it's some utterly simplistic and basic knowledge; "Learned in First Grade", "Nothing but Numbers", "Part I don't understand", "Alphabet", "Some difficult numbers", "Lucky number x Lucky number". I think that's one of the more creative comedy bit. And for the main trio, here starts the usual non-family but living together bit in KR as Junichiro accepts them to live in his house together with Sougo. Geiz and Tsukuyomi are undergoing new arc of them being confused if Sougo is really Ohma Zi-O, due to him being helpful and well-meaning morally wise. That speaks on Junichiro's character of being someone so accepting, warm, and welcoming.

Sento and Banjou's bromance is even inherited in Another Build, that part it actually made him sort of real Build, as he clings into Banjou and claims they're best match (with Banjou being creeped out ofc). Sento even felt oddly jealous of it.

It confused me too, but it's more of me expecting what'd happen in an anniversary series rather than the time travel shit (albeit it won't help). Regarding Heure, which is the boyish Time Jacker, yeah they want to undo Ohma Zi-O and replace him with someone else, I don't think at this point, the episode is meant to explain everything regarding Time Jacker, at this point it just shows that Time Jacker's method to overthrow Ohma Zi-O is creating Another Rider, just it for now. Probably it relates on how Sougo will become more and more dangerous the more Rider power he obtained thus if Time Jacker creates Another Riders, they won't fall into Sougo's hand. What Woz wants is to serve Ohma Zi-O, he's about loyalty to his king (happens to be well-meaning person at this point, thus he'd inadvertently doing good albeit short-term by supporting this version of Sougo).

This universe rules had only 1 Rider can exist thus Another Build will overwrite the real Build.... but there's easy solution if Another Build is beaten, all the changes are reverted back. The other one is just a simple battle-rule, Another Rider can be beaten by the same Rider's power thus Sougo uses BuildArmor to beat Another Build. Though yes the rule 3 deliberately insist to not ask questions... this part seems to be just a comedic bit.

To paraphrase a quote by a wise man, “Too much RabbiTank energy is dangerous”. So at this point, the only Build power is in the watch.

And because I didn’t mention him in my last post, I?ll bring up the Another Build here. His human self gets no name, because Shirakura planned to bring him back later (and in a series where ideas were thrown out due to budget, scheduling and time constraints, he actually did reappear). And I’ll mention that he sets the mood for the Another Riders be being the exact opposite of the original (Namely, he’s a dumb butt-face who traps people in Smashbottles, contrasting how Sento was a genius physicist who freed people from Smash essence) and beginning the trend of the Another Riders having traits of the monsters from the series they represent (in his case, his body is made of scrap metal and he goes more berserk with every bottle he ingests, similar to the Smash). If that doesn’t give you an idea of what to expect from the rest, I don’t know what will.

I love, love, love that Geiz wears it all the time. I dont think we ever learn why he always wears it, but I've always chalked it up to him thinking it's really cool? So it's personally become an endearing character trait for me. (Plus he always manages to pull it off well enough with whatever he's wearing 8 times out of 10, so I don't consider it some kind of grave fashion sin.)

I honestly forgot that Zi-O had a bike that wasn’t the CGI time travel robot.

Mostly unrelated, but I just realized while looking at this list that Revice doesn’t even have a motorcycle.

It's... not great!

There's a bit from the (very awful) Man of Steel movie that I'll never forget. It's near the end, after Superman has defeated the villains and their apocalyptic machinery. Metropolis is in ruins, but Superman is slowly descending towards a group of survivors, carrying Lois Lane. One of the survivors looks up at him and, voice trembling with awe, says, "He saved us."

She's saying this in the rubble of the blasted hellscape that was once Metropolis. Untold thousands have died. Possibly hundreds of thousands, as buildings were demolished in Superman's brawl with General Zod.

"He saved us."

It's a hilariously misapplied sentiment, the filmmakers missing the devastated forest for the character arc trees. Superman is now seen as a hero by the people of Metropolis! ...it just took most of them dying for him to get this reward.

It's like that with Zi-O's end to this Build story, where Sougo and Geiz have overcome this monster, gained new powers, saved the day... and it only cost us one of my favorite Kamen Rider shows. Hooray for our new heroes?

Here's some Behind The Curtain info: the screencaps come last for me, not first. I'll pull a whole bunch as I watch something -- good lines, funny gags, cool shots -- and then write up the post. When the post is done, I'll try to find a couple images that help explain/support the tone of the post. Like, Episode 1's post was intensely critical of Sougo's debut, so I needed to use these two:

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/zio/zio1a.png

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/zio/zio1b.png

I wish I had a good jumping-off point for these posts! I basically just start writing.

Yeah, it's a weakness in the episode, that it doesn't really try for that Decade-style Tsukasa Explains It All moment, to loop in Build's themes to the current conflict that Team Zi-O is trying to overcome. We get Sougo's whole Subjugation Doesn't Need To Be Mean speech from the first episode, which... wasn't exactly what I was looking for, and then the speech in this one about needing to motivate yourself.

Neither speech has that early punch that helps define a Rider's process or journey or whatever. They're each problematic in different ways. The first one is horrifying if you think about it for even three seconds (which would be two seconds longer than Sougo thought about it), and the second one... I just don't really get it? I think I do -- I read it as Sougo valuing personal motivation over outside instruction -- but it's hardly the sort of crystal-clear But Why Heroism that you'd hope for.

I think this show will get there, though. I also have faith.

A little, yeah! They're also paying him money for that room, so...

Sure, I wasn't really expecting more than that. I think the episode did a decent job of explaining what Heure and the Time Jackers were after. They didn't do a great job of explaining how this plan would help them do that, but I don't really care about the details that much. Bad Guys Want To Beat Good Guys is plenty at Episode 2.

Thanks for the info in the first paragraph!

The second paragraph is starting to steer a little bit into spoiler territory (please don't mention if someone comes back!), so if we can tone the specifics down, I'd appreciate it. Thanks!