So then why would killing the Creation King halt the creation of new Kaijin? They could just keep reproducing.

They also say that all Kaijin have a stone in them. But those stones can only be grown from extract.

I mena, it matters because it was a part of the original Kamen Rider Black. A minor part, but Battle Hopper stood above most Rider machines because he was alive.

This is a weak excuse. It's called Kamen Rider Black. How could people not expect it to be like Kamen Rider Black? What's the purpose of remaking Black specifically if you completely change it?

Also people have historically disliked things like The First/Next and Amazons. You'd think Toei would learn from their previous works, not repeat the same mistakes on a larger scale.

They really had no idea what to do with the "Kamen Rider" part of this Kamen Rider show. It felt entirely mishandled and tacked on.

I have no stake in this discussion since I have yet to see the whole show myself, but I find it interesting reading from both this thread, as well other opinions, that weakest aspect of the show that most people seem to share is ironically, the part of it that's supposed to be a remake of Black, as those aspect don't seem to entirely gel with the other themes and messages it says.

So I guess to pose a question, would you have liked this more if it was more its own thing and completely separate from Black?

1000% this would have been better had it not tacked on the Kamen Rider Black name. Either as a new rider entirely, like Shin, or as its own IP entirely.

It wasn't horrible by any means and I don't regret the watch, but yeah it was a big disservice to tie Kamen Rider Black onto it by name. Had me comparing to Black the whole time, and yeah it didn't compare. But as on original rider or IP, it'd have gone over better with me. Yeah part of the blame is on me for comparing but eh.

I mean they could, but I assume that they don't want to bank on that working out in their favor. Relying on enough humans being willing doesn't work, and the other route - let's not go there.

I'd say no. This being its own thing would've been cool too, but I really like the elements they took from Black, be it characters or references.

All-new Rider means a fresh start, this being a re-imagining means I can geek out about seeing parts of Black's OP lyrics printed on Kotaro's biker helmet :lol

Just like the Amazon Jungler. But it didn't leak into the previous remake, so I wasn't expecting anything like that in this one at first.


It's called Kamen Rider Black Sun. Not even Kamen Rider Black 2022 or Kamen Rider Kuro. And no, I didn't expect it to be like a show from the late 80s, because we have examples of Hideaki Anno, who, with all his efforts, still cannot make his Shin films look like the originals.
Again, all of this outrage would make sense if it was a direct sequel that takes into account all the events of the original show. But we are dealing unequivocally with a parallel reality and I don?t see much point in being outraged by it. The original Black is doing well and will appear in big crossovers more than once. True, probably only in a suit.


Alas, we live in the age of streaming. Opinions are nothing, the main thing is views. And, judging by this site, this show managed to take the audience away from the current rider, which means they have achieved views. But if a second season is suddenly announced (which is unlikely, given how the story ended), you can not watch it, because now you already know for sure that you won?t like it.

Wow.

Well you know, I suppose you win most depressing post to like, wake up to with this paragraph. Like I was just peaking in here from time to time since I probably won't watch this show anytime soon (I don't mind spoilers, lol), and I just see this?

Probably the most cynical thing I've seen, and further really adds to my theory on the state of most Toku Fans if I'm being honest.

I'm just for healthy criticality. We live in an age of overabundance of content and it makes no sense to waste your time on the one that you do not like. For me, the Black Sun turned out to be exactly what I expected from him, and again, this show has never been translated into anything else. For the trailers did not in any way set up an optimistic heroic story. In any case, as for me, it's good that it came out right now, because it means that in 15 years we will get a much lighter Black project.

I was in the mood for some classic Ishinomori-vibes with gruesome imagery packaged as a Kamen Rider Black re-imagining without even knowing it, watched Black Sun, loved it.

Other people wanted different things from it so they didn't like it as much. Makes perfect sense to me.

For me, the biggest thorns on my sides that are still forced to be kept on this reimagining is the names of the "priests of gorgom"

Bishum, Darom, Baraom, and then Bilgenia. WTF? Why are they named such and keep referring to Kotaro and Nobuhiko as Black Sun and Shadow Moon are not explained, even in passing. Maybe a mention that they are the first children of the Creation King and such.

Also the experiment started in the forties, with the Creation King being a POW and such. That means between the forties and the seventies, they keep making kaijins in secret, and thus maybe those are the starts of kaijin being released into population and mixing with them, creating a kaijin varied population. Maybe that was when the priests get their powers get their gorgom names.

Also the Creation King's twist is clever: He is "king" that is needed to "force create" new kaijins.

And also does anyone realize that belted Kaijins transform full bodied, like Black Sun, Shadow Moon, and Aoi, and since Aoi doesn't have her own fully traumatic experience or rage, she doesn't have "rider form" yet. Maybe the lost of her "revolutionary army" will finally trigger that transformation

Now on to Kotaro himself: He really is not developed good enough on this show, feels like a macguffin himself and not an actual character. He is Black Sun, has a transformation belt, and was involved in the kaijins efforts to revolt.

But his agency is not there. His actions are all to serve the narrative of the plot, not the plot serving his actions. Even when he becomes Kamen Rider Black Sun, he's still hammered down by the plots and not given true victories.

God, sometimes I hate japanese shows and their "edgy" need to constantly drown their characters in sorrow and frustations.

I'm sure Fourze and Den-O were shot for this (although the second, to be honest, also sometimes fell into depression).

Okay so question: how similar is this to Black? Will watching this before Black affect my enjoyment of Black?

Black is one of those series that I've always wanted to watch (I've only seen a couple of episodes) but I never felt ready to sit down and watch through 50 episodes of 80s Rider. So if this, in any way, would lessen the experience of Black, I'll just hold off on it for now.

Similar elements, names and designs. While watching them, you notice that, but overall the stories are different, so I think Black and Black Sun can be watched in any order. The main thing is not to get too hung up on the connection of these shows, otherwise yes, you can be disappointed.

By the way, you will have to watch not 50, but 97 episodes, because there is also Black RX. With all the differences, this is a direct sequel, even with the same main character, unlike V3. Plus, movies.

As someone who has never watched Black, I feel you can just jump into this. It's really it's own story with elements plucked from Black.

Yeah you can easily watch it, all you miss are references, the story is different.

And missing out on the references is no big deal, if anyhing you might experience them the other way around - once you watch Black you'll be like "Oh, so that's why they did that in Black Sun!" :lol

I mostly enjoyed watching the series - the production values are fantastic overall, though they probably shouldn't have bothered with most of the minor kaijin costumes - but like others here I do feel that it unravelled badly towards the end.

I'm basically left with having watched a teenage girl rapidly lose everyone and everything she cares about in increasingly traumatic ways until she has nothing left but hate. Bold, certainly, but not very satisfying.

Did Kotaro always intend to become Creation King when he rocked up for the showdown with Nobuhiko? Or did that kind of happen by accident?

And WTF was Bilgenia's arc in this? He seemed to switch loyalty to go and work for whoever hated him the most that episode.

I'm not so concerned about missing references in Black Sun; rather, I don't want something from Black Sun to spoil the experience of watching Black. However, I want to watch Black Sun while the hype is still fresh :lol

Sounds like I'm good to go, then. Thanks!

The 1970s part really makes you wanna sing long long ago, 20th century. :lolol

Alright finally finished it.

And I can't help but feel that Kotaro never wanted his legacy to be the creation of a terrorist cell comprised of literal child fucking soldiers.

That was... A direction to end this on for sure.

I suppose it fits with the overall tone of the series, but isn't how I saw things going.

There's literal child fucking? This is even edgier than I thought.

In fact, if Toei doesn't stop making modern adult remakes or no change approach to them, then this may happen. It would seem that the Amazons with their cannibalism were extreme, but the Black Sun managed to overtake them. It's scary to even imagine how much the degree will be raised in the next such adaptation.

Just got done binging it all, and I'll be up front here: I came out not liking it much.

Without getting into too much detail, there were alot of concepts throughout that I liked, but the execution left alot to be desired.

For example, I did like how it drew little bits out of both the original Black the TV show as well as its manga counterpart, but alot of the ways they're incorporated just kinda feel random and off-tone.

Combine that with some rather inconsistent characterization and the plot totally losing me by the last bit of episode five and I really couldn't tell what the overall point being made was if there even was one. I haven't seen Amazonz yet, but if it's anything like Black Sun then it very much won't be for me.

Overall though, I think that the biggest disappointment for me was that the previews had me thinking that this was going to be a very personal story of the duality and rivalry between Kotaro and Nobuhiko, and it very much is not. That aspect plays very little into the overall story much less the two as characters. Aoi is the main character of the show through and through and the plot very much focuses on politics, whether you like it or not.

"Did You See the Sunrise?" is a great song though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r41R0BKosVw

But yeah, in the end, I feel like Zero-One did alot of this stuff alot better.

*Spoilers*
I hated it and felt like it was a spit in the face to actual Kamen Rider Black fans. It isn't a Kamen Rider show, it's a political drama with a Kamen Rider costume on. The writing of the series is very western. I don't want western style writing, that's why I watch shows and movies from Asia instead of shows like Game of Thrones. Kotaro has no personality and he's a side character in his own show. The creation stone plot makes no sense at all. Aoi is basically a Japanese Greta Thunberg and it became a running joke just how many bad things can happen to her. Her friend dies and then gets brought back to life just to die again. I'm actually okay with the teen soldier angle to a degree. Where it falls short is that Kotaro just goes along with it. Kotaro in Black, or Black RX would have stormed the building with just him and Nobuhiko and absolutely refused for anyone else to go in, but since this Kotaro has no personality he just lets everyone else do what they want since he's just a plot device. Then there is Kotaro dying for no reason after it was already established that the Creation King can develop it's own will. Then on the last episode equating racism with being against open border policies. This is especially stupid considering that accepting thousands of immigrants at one time would also make the kaijin suffer, not just the humans. There is a reason why in Black RX the people from the demon realm went to live underground on Earth and it is because with all those people coming in, housing prices would skyrocket, they'd be a lot less space and there would be more homeless people. Not to mention that countries that have adapted such policies, crime rate has increased. Plus if the government wanted to help the kaijins, they wouldn't be able to with thousands of immigrants coming in, so it's stupid all the way around. Oh, and then Aoi at the end implying she's going to attack people that want secure borders.

Hilarious. About time we got one of those posts.

The original Kamen Rider manga is available in English, beautiful hardcover release, go ahead and read it.

Fair warning, it might be too "woke" for you. But I would like to see who you blame for its tone. Because it apparently cannot be that Japanese people care about social justice.

He hasn't watched Chousoku Parahero Gundeen yet!
https://toku.fun/storage/app/uploads...2105051596.jpg
In general, offtopic, but since the time when the MCU threw this topic into the mainstream, it has jarred me. The problem of lack of resources is not caused by overpopulation, but by their uneven distribution. To feed the entire current population of the planet, +/- territory commensurate with France is enough. And even in very densely populated Japan, there are deserted or sparsely populated cities. In a word, overpopulation is a self-deception of the inhabitants of large cities. More often go to the village or just to nature, so that you will be convinced of it.

I see a lot of people get pissed off by the child soldiers, but they are clearly inspired by the Shonen Warriors from the original Black. Plus, war has always attracted young people.
Also, we were shown throughout the film that Kotaro Minami of this show is a weak and weak-willed person. Therefore, it is only logical that he was unable to maintain free will as the King of Creation. This possibility was mentioned as a weak ray of hope.

Does the manga imply that taking in thousands of immigrants at one time have no downside? Please, please enlighten me how my points are wrong. All the people that go and post about how someone is wrong for pointing out these issues has yet to address how I, or those that have made similar posts are wrong. How about you all actually focus on real issues facing Japan, like mental health stigma?

If it were as easy as that, there wouldn't be overpopulated places at all in any country, let alone in a smaller country like Japan. Not to mention deforestation being an issue in and of itself. I will consent that at some point we might get there with advanced technology, but until Elon Musk makes underground cities, we aren't truly there yet. Furthermore, what about all the other issues I stated? Let's say for the sake of argument even if someone did agree with the immigration angle, how does that magically excuse all the other issues in the series? Do you really enjoy a Kamen Rider series where the main character isn't even the main character and is just a side character with no personality? Hell, Kotaro barely even fights in the series. One rider kick and one rider punch, wow such a great series.

I will read the entire manga and then come back to post, though a lot of time people equate any subtle political discussion being "woke", or being all equal. That's like saying the inter-racial kiss on Star Trek politically equates equally to a discussion about the drug war.

I wrote that the excess population is in big cities. At the same time, small towns and villages are dying out. And this is due to the fact that resources (including those obtained in these very settlements) go to megacities and people are drawn to them. This creates a false picture of overpopulation. Again, it is enough to simply open the population density map of the same Japan and you will immediately see how uneven it is.

Yeah, to turn into Morlocks. Then it's better to fly into space. But in any case, before (and if) this becomes a real problem, neither Elon Musk nor you and I will be there for a long time. I am sure that the foresters do not notice any overpopulation in their lands.

I enjoy it, but the show obviously has flaws. Kotaro is one of them, but none of the previous adult versions have a good main character, so I'm not that disappointed. In general, my favorite part of the show is flashbacks, where there were practically no fights, so I think it's not about them.

The modern take on this classic seems like it’s doing the whole x Men mutants tropes again. There is too many series about human and another non human race. Hope to see what next year shin kamen rider movie will be like.

Relevance. Maybe...

Firstly, I want to say I don't have ill will towards anyone here, even if you disagree with me. I have my views and my desires and I'm not going to let my views cause hatred for anyone here. That being stated, regardless of the political narrative of the series, I still absolutely hate it. Political messages or not, I hope more series do not go this route. Even Amazons was better because there was actual action. It just feels like an insult even with politics aside for this series to have so few action sequences. I don't want my Tokusatsu stories to be drama shows. If I liked that stuff, I'd watch Korean dramas, which I hate precisely because most Korean shows are almost all exposition. I don't want a drama show with Kamen Rider characters, I want basically a super hero show aimed at adults.