It is such pure fan-service, the amount of suits this movie has:

-Every Den-O form
-Zeronos Zero Form
-New Den-O
-The Gaoh suit, basically
-Every goddamn monster suit from the entire TV series
-Seven good Imagins
-Four good Imagins in their mascot disguises
-^^^^^^^^!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's insane, how dedicated this movie was to making sure everyone (except Altair/Vega fans) felt like this movie was for them.

You and this show certainly have a special connection!

If it helps, it's always really interesting to see the way you read into Den-O stuff specifically because it's often so wildly off from the way I look at it.

Final Countdown has never been some amazing, perfect film for me, but I do like it quite a bit, and think it nails what it sets out to do, for the most part. I view it as a sort of do-over after Climax Deka was a continuation that felt like a random bit of filler released way too late. Final Countdown has a whole thing going on where it's a movie focusing on Ryoutarou's future the way the first movie focused on his past, kinda tying them together a loose duology (or bookends to a trilogy! If we're feeling generous enough to include Climax Deka!)

Ryoutarou being possessed for so long IS inherently a bummer, but I see what the movie is going for with it; trying to emphasize how important his presence is, how you can't take it for granted anymore, and how it lets all the other characters that are basically never separated from the guy react to that. It has ~just~ enough merit that it doesn't really bother me, although I vaguely recall having to ponder that a while after first watching the movie.

I don't know, man – I guess I just like Den-O? Hard to be too disappointed by a movie that ends with an entire team of Den-O in every form all fighting bad guys together!

(Oh, and while I usually hope to come in with fun trivia, apparently there was a whole incident making the movie where Seiji Takaiwa collapsed from a lack of oxygen filming a really long take as Momotaros on a very hot summer day, so, uh... yeah, Final Countdown must've at least been a dispiriting endeavor for him, to be sure.)

New Den-O is my favorite. I love the dark blue they used and how the metallic parts seem like they aged giving a vintage look to it despite being new. Fun fact, Teddy's real name is Neotaros and was created after Kotaro hearing about Ryotaro's story. This is evident in the N-shape trims around Teddy's body. While Teddy's name invokes teddy bear, it actually derives from the word steady. The design and color scheme is intended to have a more futuristic aesthetic as well as to make a contrast between Teddy and Momotaros using the red oni and blue oni trope(personal note, some iterations of the Momotaro story seem to describe Momotaro facing off against a red oni and a blue oni).

I also really love Teddy and Kotaro/New Den-o. The design is fantastic and the sword is just the bomb.

Edit: Also I as Kotaro develops over the movies I really start to enjoy his character more, and his relationship with Teddy.

Also! I believe this was the first Toku movie I watched, way back when all this stuff was still available on Youtube before toei took all the fansubs there down.

Don't remember a ton about this one, but I'll give it a rewatch this weekend and get back with some thoughts.

The biggest thing I remember is how much it felt like Takeru Satoh already had one foot out the door. The Denliner gang is always fun, but it does feel weird to have Ryotarou sitting on a train for most of it.

Also, I love how there is absolutely no mention of Climax Deka and the whole time police set-up that it established.

Pretty much. This movie seemed like a send-off as they introduced Kotaro. Plus Sato's career soared to newer heights after Den-O with him being a regular on many successful dramas such as the manga to live-action adaptation Rookies, and more work started piling up for him so his career bulked up in a short period of time.

so a fun thing about Teddy is that the concept art of his weapon form (the Macheteddy) revealed that his working name was apparently Neotaros as the blade is labeled as the Neotaros sword. Making him one of 2 imagin that had their names changed after their designs were approved the other being Sieg originally being called the Swan Imagin

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...ncept_art.webp.

Yeah, the second half of this movie is pretty pretty fun. All them suits! All them catchphrases! All them finishers! So much of what you love about Den-O!

...which immediately reminded me of, like, a parent buying gifts for a child because the parent screwed up or wasn't around enough or whatever. All that fan-service felt a little like overcompensation for how Ryotaro didn't want to do this anymore.

I don't know! I got weird feelings about the disparity between what this movie is doing and what it's saying!

I wish I got a better feel for the Kotaro/Teddy relationship in this movie? It all plays a bit more like New Zeronos than New Den-O, which isn't doing a lot for the new kids. Like, I'm okay with you replacing Momo or Ryotaro; do not even try to replace Yuuto or Deneb.

Yeah, as much as I wasn't going crazy for the new additions, it would've been nice to have a scene, maybe, where Teddy and Kotaro sell their relationship to the audience.

Oh, man, what a crazy first film to see! I can't imagine it made any sense!

The construction of this movie felt very much like the producers were given a strict (and low) limit on the number of days they could have Ryotaro. He seems keen to move on, just like Sora.

Fun fact: It didn't, I'd just heard Den-o was good, and that's what Middle school age deep could find online so I watched it, and kind of understood it. I basically had no idea what was happening for the first half and was pretty confused most the time. I think I didn't even realize ryotaro was the main character the whole time I was watching. I do strongly remember new den-o debut with the timer and teddy, and the whole big everyone stand in a line and get ready to fight thing. Like those have been in my memory for a long ass time. Also that seen where ryotaro transforms into skull for the first time.

Understandable and all I can say for now is, don't give up on them yet. Without saying too much this movie is just the start of their adventure and there is a story for another day that hopefully answers that. Emphasis on hopefully as I will leave the judgement to you after you have engaged with said story.

I really don't hold this movie against them, if that's not too weird to say. This movie was a going away party for Ryotaro; it's really not the place for Kotaro and Teddy to have a huge arc. I liked where the movie left them? By the end of the movie, I was ready to give them a shot. That was not how I felt after they first showed up!

Yeah, Final Countdown is a weird one. It's transitory status is honestly what holds it back the most - had it commited to being purely "Ryotaro's final swansong", or "Den-O: The Next Generation", it could probably have made those work far better, but instead it's trying to ease you out of Ryotaro and into "The Imagin and their new friends", which, ya know, obviously worked since I've watched that Pretty Den-O film within the last few months, but it means you're hung up on the memories of what Den-O used to be, while trying to set up what it will be. In this case, waiting on Ryotaro to escape the ghost train and reunite with his friends.

That's not to say it's not fun - it's certainly better than Climax Deka - but idk, Ore Tanjou still wins out. I didn't hate Kotarou, it's pretty easy to guess where his arc goes as soon as he shows up, and New Den-O's suit is gorgeous, but he'll have better showings down the line. The Imagin are as funny as ever, the villains are Rider movie villains, it's a servicable film, but not an amazing one.

But still, you finished Den-O (The character)! Hope you enjoy the rest of Den-O (the franchise)!

It also does Yuuto dirty in a way that made that first half-hour really tough for me. A lot of Kotaro's debut is as the new Den-O, with a newly-painted Den-Liner, and he's accompanied by an Imagin who can't make him act politely, and that Imagin can become a weapon for the new Den-O, and the new Den-O won't stop trying to do everything himself, and that new Den-O also needs to tell people how strong he is... like, Kotaro's trying to replace Ryotaro and Yuuto in the same scenes, while Yuuto languishes in a hospital bed.

It feels like Kobayashi was working as hard as she could to make you hate Kotaro, and I don't know why she decided to do that? A little friction is fine; we're all going to be skeptical of our new Den-O when the old Den-O hasn't even left yet, so it's cool to play into that. But Kotaro's debut is aggressive (it's a bunch of sequences where the other characters watch Kotaro be a bad-ass) and dismissive (he constantly insults the show this movie is celebrating!), and it's such a weird hole to spend the rest of the movie digging Kotaro out of.

Not weird at all. But yes like I said earlier expect more of them in further post-Takeru Den-O shenanigans.

Final Countdown is an okay Den-O movie, but it reuses a lot of things that were seen before. The Edo Era, the tragically butchered Gaoh suit, Ryoutarou being out of action, multiple Den-Os, these are all things that were done in Ore Tanjou and I think that movie was more meaningful for how it focused on the bond between Ryoutarou and Momotaros and the value of memories.

This movie does touch on some of the important themes from the show, but they're mostly experienced through the perspective of Koutarou, who doesn't understand all the hype about the Den-O of the present day. I actually like Koutarou and Teddy and everything about New Den-O and their counting gimmick. But in a movie that was being advertised as the last Den-O movie, it seems like a weird time to be introducing these new characters instead of focusing on the ones we're already familiar with. Koutarou will get more chance to shine going forward with the Chou Den-O Series though so look forward to that. His name is of course a reference to kid Ryoutarou, who was nicknamed Koutarou in Ore Tanjou as distinction from adult Ryoutarou.

Shirou gets the accolade of coming up with the whole "replace living with dead" plan before Kamen Rider War, but honestly I think even that crazy movie made it sound more plausible. Here, it's basically just more classic Time Nonsense, compounded with Owner's ineffective reassurance that everything makes sense at the end. Shirou isn't even that interesting as a movie villain, compared to bad*sses like Gaoh and Negataros. His whole motivation is that his girlfriend died and while that is definitely sad, I don't think it's something that would necessarily push most people to inverting time. Kamen Rider Yuki is also the reason why the awesome Gaoh suit doesn't exist anymore, so I'm a little bitter about that.

Man, I'll say it: I think Shiro is my favorite Den-O movie villain to date?

I like him for the same reason I like Kai, in that his motivation seems to embody some of the uncertainty of the producers. Shiro's a meta villain to me. He's desperately trying to cling onto someone who's already gone, and he's willing to risk destroying his happy memories to do it. Putting a villain like that in the last Ryotaro story (for a while, at least), when we're maybe 1 to 2 Ryotaro stories too many already, feels more vital than some train warlord or weirdo crime drama.

Like, this movie feels real nervous about losing Ryotaro, and it feels real nervous about trying to tell more Den-O stories, and Shiro's the best villain to explore that anxiety.

So you aren't actually into Kotaro, someone that typically riles up shit by deeming themselves as better and telling everyone that they suck (I guess it's meant to be his comedy like usual of the riling up conflicts like this, or many occassions of this type of bickering is seen as in the franchise). Den-O being something that has Yuichi Nakamura, it's the reason why his previous character was reviled, Kyosuke in Hibiki (or its 2nd half in general), who behaves similarly to show when he appears against the current cast. I know you deem it as Sakurai stuff due to him, also being picked from the future by Owner to solve a problem in the present, and I thought there's an opposite to Sakurai here that Kotaro actually does show off his behavior and a little of his past, too many screentime to Sakurai's lack of? I've seen significantly worse behaviors in the franchise than what Kotaro displayed here to get riled up actually, though I'd think Kotaro's misery isn't highlighted enough from his past other than his name being made fun of, if it's the source of his grudge against Ryotaro, and his resolution seems to be too rushed, just suddenly changing after interacting with Ryotaro, that he's suddenly ok with him being named Kotaro. My other thought is that.. Ryotaro managed to score girls after all then if he can have a descendant.

D̶u̶n̶n̶o̶ ̶a̶b̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶l̶o̶v̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶u̶s̶,̶ ̶K̶o̶b̶a̶y̶a̶s̶h̶i̶'̶s̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶w̶h̶o̶ ̶h̶a̶t̶e̶s̶ ̶K̶R̶ ̶v̶a̶l̶u̶e̶s̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶t̶r̶i̶e̶s̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶d̶e̶c̶o̶n̶s̶t̶r̶u̶c̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶m̶,̶ ̶w̶h̶i̶c̶h̶ ̶p̶u̶t̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶o̶d̶d̶s̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶I̶n̶o̶u̶e̶.̶ And I feel true that Ryotaro doesn't appear much in the movie, except as Shiro's prisoner and that he's treated as the resolving force to solve the problem at the end. I guess if Ryotaro does have descendants, his next story should be about him growing out of his loser status that he can settle down with a girl at the end? He does become more confident and assertive in the main series, but it wasn't shown much about how's his state of life after that. But yeah this is what companies can do, for money, to milk out something that is supposed to be done. It's a fun read to associate Shiro with Sora's stuff with the real life state of Den-O, though yeah it's still subjective that the company does milk out Den-O because there will be those who can't get enough of it and keep coming back (I agree on letting what's done be done though, disapproving with company meddling with creative works), and that thing reminds me of something else Kobayashi has done before. For the plot being about keeping the dying beloved alive at the expense of others, the alternate solution being the villain dying with the loved ones together... indicator of Toei dying then (or... Kobayashi wishing for the end of Toei?!)?!

I̶n̶d̶e̶c̶i̶s̶i̶v̶e̶ ̶f̶k̶e̶r̶,̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶a̶ ̶K̶a̶i̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶p̶u̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶m̶ ̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶i̶r̶ ̶m̶i̶s̶e̶r̶y̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶a̶ ̶S̶h̶i̶r̶o̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶l̶o̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶m̶ ̶e̶n̶d̶l̶e̶s̶s̶l̶y̶?̶ There's a comedy that I liked from Kotaro's inclusion though that, Momo wants to insult back, by calling Teddy, Tuffy, but his hostile attempt got turned back against him that he's the one being seen as idiot instead due to others not following Momo by correcting him instead. a show of responding a taunt with another taunt being ineffective (especially against undeserving one in Teddy). Still baffled about the fact that despite Kohana can beat up the Taros Imagins regularly, they'd treat Kohana as something to be protected by other Taros, or the flip-flopping part that she hides or she stands up against enemy Imagins. If you summed up about Shiro and Sora, what'd be the relation for the elephant talk that happens several times in the Edo era though? The part of all the Den-O's Riders gathering (with Ryotaro as other final form Liner Form, so having final form with other base form is better than singular final form!), although a good use of the group's arsenals, however is done less creatively imo than the tag team on the finale of Den-O series, I'd prefer something be made the same rather than be different but less. I didn't think that Sieg, the "supposed star of this movie"'s Wing Form performance had good use of its abilities.

Sure, but for me it was the specific ways Kotaro was a jerk in the early going. He was specifically insulting the hero of Kamen Rider Den-O, the supporting cast of Kamen Rider Den-O, and the premise of the Kamen Rider Den-O series. I don't mind some random jerk showing up, but this was like attending someone's birthday party just to tell them that they suck and that birthdays are dumb and that no one likes them. Probably going to make that birthday party less fun for everyone!

My headcanon is that Ryotaro adopts a kid in the future. Considering we've never seen Ryotaro in any sort of romantic relationship at any point so far, I don't see him suddenly falling in love and/or hooking up with anyone? I think he just adopts some kid in the next few years.

Yeah, I mean, say what you will about Climax Deka, but at least that movie let Hana kick ass at the end. Would've been a nice moment in this one if they did some wirework with her or something.

Oh, and speaking of Climax Deka! For like, archival purposes, I guess, I'd just like to take a second to link to Die's post about that movie, which was over in the thread for Kiva, because that full title has a way of fooling people, apparently! (The posts leading up to that one are also highly recommended reading here.)

Not sure how much actual utility this post will have to anyone reading these threads, but I'd hate for us all to forget about what is arguably the most forgettable Den-O film out there!

ha ha, OH MAN. That night of watching Climax Deka! What a weird evening.

Thanks for posting those links! I'd not only forgotten to crosspost it here (I think I was going to, but then... didn't?), I'd largely forgotten what the hell I wrote. Rereading it a couple months later was a trip. I don't remember feeling any particular way about that write-up, but it's not too bad. The less I remember the process, the more I enjoy the recollections. Thanks for the fun reminder of a baffling film!

I probably should've picked up the slack before Final Countdown, too, but I also forgot!

It's a very forgettable movie!

I mean, we only know about Shakespeare thanks to a contemporary author writing a deathbed repentance saying how much he thought Shakespeare sucked and how Henry VI sucked and that no one likes them.

While the time-honored human reaction of Being Contradictory Due To Spite pops up occasionally in Rider (Inoue, mostly), it still feels a little antithetical to Den-O's good-times hang-out vibes. Kotaro being a massive dick did make me appreciate Ryotaro more, but, like, at what cost? Even in your example, a man died. Sort of not what I'm looking for in a celebratory Den-O extravaganza!

PROGRAMMING NOTE: The following post on *deep breath* KAMEN RIDER CHO DEN-O & DECADE NEO GENERATIONS THE MOVIE: THE ONIGASHIMA WARSHIP previously appeared in the "TokuNation watches Kamen Rider Decade" thread. It's being reposted here for... I don't know, thoroughness? Completion? Either way, here's me and Enchilada645 talking about a Den-O/Decade movie.

Oh! And if you're wondering why it's me and someone else taking this movie apart, that's because the gimmick for the Decade thread was me and someone else taking apart Decade's tribute stories. If you want to read me and Enchilada645 talking about the Den-O tribute episodes from Decade, you can find that here.

I'll be back to cover the Cho Den-O trilogy in about a month. In the meantime, enjoy!

---

KAMEN RIDER CHO DEN-O & DECADE NEO GENERATIONS THE MOVIE: THE ONIGASHIMA WARSHIP

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/...ecadedeno1.png

KAMEN RIDER DIE: I, uh, I feel like I owe you an apology! I asked you to pitch in on this movie, because it was billed as a Decade thing. IT IS DEFINITELY NOT A DECADE THING!

ENCHILADA645: It's as much Decade as Kiva's romp with Den-O was Kiva pretty much.
That's not to say I didn't enjoy my time here regardless.

KAMEN RIDER DIE: I'd give it a slight edge over the Den-O/Kiva flick, but not by much. (Actually, I think THIS movie has more Kiva stuff than that one, since the Arms Monsters get an extended, funny cameo.) Decade is, y'know, around for a couple scenes, but he has basically no bearing on the plot. He doesn't inform or contribute. He basically shows up for two-thirds of the final fight, and then leaves while the Den-Liner crew are fighting for their lives. Both Decade and Diend come off as callous to the point of villainous. How did Tsukasa's bailing and Kaitou's shit-stirring work for you?

ENCHILADA645: Eh I'd say less callous, and more... they're sorta just there in regards to things. Or at least like, Tsukasa is mostly apathetic to the whole situation. And I don't really blame him given his journey to the next world got interrupted by Sieg and he got possessed for like the fifth time or so. So he just wants to deal with Den-O for good, even if that does just mean making a small cameo here.
Daiki is very... he's there? And he has this weird purple effect for his dimensional walls that we never see before or after this. I'm honestly not sure what his purpose was here or what he was trying to do. Was he trying to spite Momo for him not becoming a train? Us for forgetting about him near entirely in the last recap? Or was his whole "special service" because he knew his clones would get body jacked? I'm honestly not sure.

KAMEN RIDER DIE: That's the weird part: Diend is arguably more useful to the movie's plot than Decade! Kaitou drops off those color-coded clones, perfect spare bodies for the Imagin to use. Decade... I mean, he brings Sieg, but it's not like it'd've broken our suspension of disbelief if Sieg had just wandered into frame during the third act, like he was in the neighborhood and thought he'd say hi to Hana. You don't have to work very hard to contrive a reason for Sieg to show up! That's basically his one move!

ENCHILADA645: That is a fair argument yeah, there was nothing stopping Sieg from just, showing up. But well, we had to push Decade in somehow since this was seemingly the set of years when they wanted to start pushing these Riders crossing over. Even if we wouldn't really get a proper crossover for a while.

KAMEN RIDER DIE: And, man, speaking of shoehorning in characters: WHY WAS RYOTARO IN THIS! The last non-Decade Den-O project was about saying goodbye to Ryotaro's actor, and introducing a new Den-O to carry the narrative weight. So, hey, here's Kotaro as Den-O, teaming up with Hana and the Den-Liner crew... including a youthened Ryotaro, who is the original Ryotaro that the series literally just said goodbye to, and he's still getting possessed by the Imagin so Sword Form can save the day.
WHY.
WHY.
WHY.
Why the last movie? Why Kotaro? WHY.

ENCHILADA645: Yeah this movie is very odd in that regard. You've got the big goodbye for Ryotaro, and you've also got them setting Momotaros as a solo deal in the episodes that advertise this movie. But then you've also got this movie setting up like the new status quo going forward for a bit here.

KAMEN RIDER DIE: I genuinely can't figure out why the movie does this convoluted nonsense to keep Ryotaro in the narrative, when a) he doesn't have any emotional stake in this story, and b) it's not like he's got some huge scene with the other Imagin. There's, like, one good Ryotaro/Momo scene, and it's not a huge part of the plot.
And, since Real Den-O is so front and center in this movie, it makes Cho Den-O seem like a random hanger-on. I half expected him to bail on the final fight, too!

ENCHILADA645: Yeah definitely, Ryotaro is very much there, and his explanation for being a kid is very much there. Like I didn't mind Kotaro just being there since well, that was sorta the whole setup with the last movie I feel? Been a while since I watched any old Den-O content outside the stuff for Decade.
But yeah, Ryotaro is by far not what the movie considers the big emotional focus. So he definitely feels weird and off here.

KAMEN RIDER DIE: The real emotional focus was Yuuto (the movie treats it like this is some gigantic, game-changing shock, which it definitely was not for me), and... man, I really want to Get Along With Yuuto, but this kid's story just didn't do it for me. Did his story about parental loss and geographic dissatisfaction connect with you?

ENCHILADA645: Having seen this movie once before, I picked up on what was going on after Yuuto got a lot of focus and Deneb possessed him. So like, the twist clearly had no effect on me. And I'll be real I completely forgot about this being the main emotional plot of the movie because the most I remembered of the movie is like, the last 20 or so minutes.
That being said, while his like core motivations didn't really do much for me in the beginning, I kind of warmed up to him once he got involved with the Den-Liner crew and had those moments in the past with the archer girl. It was enough for me to have like a big stupid smile on my face in the ending where we see regular Yuuto and Deneb paling around.

KAMEN RIDER DIE: And that's what was so weird for me: I love Yuuto and Deneb. LOVE. Absolutely my favorite relationship on Den-O, and one of my all-time favorite pairings across the entire Kamen Rider franchise. I should be super in the bag for the Secret Origin of Yuuto and Deneb. But, wow, I was really not.
Pretty much as soon as the grandmother calls him Yuu-chan, I'm like Oh It's The Kid Version Of Yuuto. After that point, I kept looking for some version of Yuuto's pride or snottiness or temper or something in Yuu. I never really found it? He's just some random kid, and his dilemma is really dull to me (I sort of expect more nuance from Den-O at this point than We Can't Lose Ourselves In The Past.) He's so thinly sketched, and there's none of Yuuto's nostalgia for me to fill in the blanks. I don't know. He didn't click with me at all, and I was trying.
But, yeah, that ending with Yuuto and Deneb wrestling in the park is fantastic.
Why they didn't just turn this series over to those two, I will never understand.

ENCHILADA645: It is honestly odd too, given like you've got the perfect cast set in stone. The four main Imagin being able to turn into Den-O whenever they want. You've got Yuuto as the human face alongside Deneb and he's clearly a popular character.
Not to mention the fact that you can get back the Den Liner crew pretty easily, and you've got a solid cast of people to carry Den-O for a while without making things too complicated.
I guess they just wanted a lot of backups.

KAMEN RIDER DIE: And, like, Yuuto didn't quit! He showed up for this one! Incredibly frustrating for me as a fan of both Yuuto and Den-O The Series.

ENCHILADA645: Yeah I can definitely see why. And I can see why this movie didn't really stick with me on a more emotional level than it did an entertainment level. Because I think the only reason I remembered the last big act of this movie for years was for a good reason.

KAMEN RIDER DIE: Was it Climax Form But With Wings?
Or was it Team Den-O's absolutely brilliant plan to trick an immortal oni?

ENCHILADA645: Oh it was absolutely Team Den-O's incredible plan to trick an immortal oni. The minute that scene popped up I started getting deja vu and was grinning like crazy.

KAMEN RIDER DIE: It is, for sure, the best part of this movie. I found a lot of this film sort of interminably dull (all of the stuff with Yuu and Toki was creepy and unaffecting), but when the entire very large team basically does a Let's Put On A Show to trick an immortal oni into thinking he's traveled through time, I was ecstatic. It's the sort of bonkers plot development that Den-O does maybe better than any other Kamen Rider series, and it alone is worth sitting through poorly-motivated guest stars and movie-only actors who just did not make a single positive impression on me.
To wit: I did not like our villains! They were very boring to me!

ENCHILADA645: Yeah they aren't much there at all are they? I think the most I remembered them for were their weird Rider-Oni looking suits. So it felt weird when they were having this big emotional moment in the end after reuniting for like 3 minutes.

KAMEN RIDER DIE: The suits were nice to look at, but their plan/scheme/whatever is... man, I thought Gaoh was a villain with a simplistic plan of attack and a vague endgame, but these two make Gaoh look like Evolt from Build. What do they even want, other than to be evil? Is that it?

ENCHILADA645: Pillage and conquer I guess? Yeah they aren't exactly the most in depth when it comes to motivations. Which is why the most I remember from them is their suits and them having weird Ryuki monster minions that are considered oni I guess.

KAMEN RIDER DIE: They do pretty much look like unused Alternative designs. Kept waiting for the movie to address this, what with the time travel excuse just sitting there, but... nope! 16th-century monsters looked like 21st-century scientific extrapolations of monsters, that's this movie's aesthetic choice, got it.

ENCHILADA645: Yeah, it's definitely weird.

KAMEN RIDER DIE: Anything else from this movie that you partially enjoyed and I clearly did not? I'd hate for you to have some happy feelings from this movie that I didn't cruelly stamp out.
I... Man, I really didn't like this movie. If you've got stuff from it you want to praise, I will do my best to not rain on your parade.

ENCHILADA645: Um... honestly this movie was an interesting experience going back to. But rewatching it, now I'm remembering exactly why I only remember the last big act of the movie starting with the literal ruse cruise. Also there is something I noticed about a lot of Den-O Movies post series, and it's that the big fight at the end has like a huge bar fight energy to it. And I feel like you can say that about a lot of like the post series Den-O Movies in terms of climaxes.

KAMEN RIDER DIE: Yeah, it really does. It's the storytellers making sure that all of the Imagin and humans are in one place for the fight, so it's going to have ten heroes (or more!) and about a dozen monsters. Most other shows don't really work that hard to get everyone in one place at one time, to my memory. Like, the Ghost/Ex-Aid movie had five Riders in its finale, but they were all spread out. Den-O wants to get everyone playing off each other, since that's what folks love about the cast.

ENCHILADA645: Definitely
And I suppose these movies do continue to prove that well, what we love about Den-O is the characters really.

KAMEN RIDER DIE: They are still great. I wish there were maybe less of them, but I guess that's not the worst problem to have.
With that wish, we are done with the World of Den-O! How appropriate! Next up in the Decade thread is the World of Kabuto, and later this fall I'll be back in the Den-O thread for the Cho Den-O trilogy! Who knows how many more non-Ryotaro replacement heroes will be joining a not-replaced Ryotaro aboard the Den-Liner?! I'm anxious to find out!

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Decided to watch this movie and despite having seen all none of Den-O outside of cameos, I rather liked it! No idea what this Decade guy is about, but he seems cool, I guess? I liked his cameo in Wizard, atleast.

You liar!

KAMEN RIDER X KAMEN RIDER X KAMEN RIDER THE MOVIE: CHO-DEN-O TRILOGY
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EPISODE RED - "ZERO NO STAR TWINKLE”

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So, let me say this from the start: Yuuto's pretty strong.

He's in an impossible position in this movie. He clearly cares for Airi, but he's unsure how much of that is his own feelings, and how much is the expectation to live Sakurai's life as a way of honoring Sakurai's sacrifice. Worse, Airi sees just enough of Sakurai in Yuuto to care for him, but not enough to finally let Sakurai go. It's a triangle so convoluted that it takes Kintaros about 80% of the runtime to finally process it all.

But it... I mean, it's elegant in the way it cuts through a lot of the usual Time Nonsense to get at some core ideas about love, about relationships, about how you need to feel worthy of love, and about how loving people means being okay with who they are right now.

Like, yeah, Yuuto is fighting against the memory of his future self who has been negated to save the life the woman Yuuto is fated to love, but Yuuto's also just trying to get Airi to see him as something other than a reminder of her dead fiance. This story simplifies the metaphor a lot by having multiple characters enforce the idea that Sakurai and Yuuto aren't two ends of one timeline anymore; they're fundamentally different people.

And the smart thing this movie does is state all that, and then turn it over to Airi.

It's not really a movie about Yuuto. It's about his resiliency, maybe, about his strength. But the whole story is about what Airi wants. It's about how love is a way to appreciate someone's shortcomings, to love them as they are.

Sakurai is an ideal, and it's never clear in all of Den-O how much of that is just the illusion of memory. He's faultless, and brilliant, and caring, and heroic. He's the one who taught Ryotaro to be the man that eventually became Den-O. He's better than Yuuto in every way. Yuuto is childish. He wrestles with Deneb, he mopes, he runs away, he puts a pound of sugar into his coffee. For all of Yuuto's positive qualities, he can't measure up to Sakurai. There's a feeling from Airi that, y'know, maybe someday. Maybe Yuuto will shed his gruff exterior, put on a stupid hat, and become the man she lost.

But that's not fair to Airi, because it means waiting indefinitely to get back what she lost while the world moves on around her. It's not fair to Sakurai, because he sacrificed himself to give Airi a future, while she endlessly glorifies his past. And it's not fair to Yuuto, because he's honestly not that bad.

If there's an arc for Yuuto in this movie, it's him realizing he deserves to be loved. It's a hard thing to do. It's a real strength, to love someone who doesn't love you back, but hold onto your sense of self-worth. Yuuto spends a lot of this movie watching Airi pine for Sakurai, and he wrestles with his inability to live up to that memory, but eventually he lets it go. He'll try and forge his own connection with Airi. Maybe she'll love him the way she loved Sakurai, but maybe she won't. Maybe the way she'll love him is its own thing, its own light in the darkness.

And that's for Airi to decide. It's nice to see her become less wrapped up in the perfect memory of Sakurai, in the ways Yuuto is Less Than, and see her open up to new possibilities. To see Yuuto's childishness as infectious. To rearrange her life the way she rearranged the cafe: parts of the old, but with space for something new.

The Airi/Yuuto stuff is obviously what I'm going to remember this movie for (it's easily the best of the post-show Den-O content so far), but the rest of it is zippy and fun. It's always a blast to spend time with the Den-Liner crew, and they're thoroughly ridiculous in this movie. Just that little scene where Momo accidentally lived on the streets for four months because his back was hurting! Or every scene where Naomi is acting like a psychopath in the background! It's a nicely light-hearted counterpoint to the heavy drama of the rest of the film.

The action's solid, too. I like the thematic link of the guy who made a contract with an Imagin to win over Airi. It's a fun twist on Airi's inability to see past her idealized memories of Sakurai, and on Yuuto torturing himself to become Sakurai. And the Imagin being a Three Little Pigs riff on Climax Form, very cute.

But, boy, it's all about the Yuuto/Airi story for me in this one. It's melodramatic in the best possible ways, with actors who nail the material. I could watch Yuuto and Airi sadly look at each other for an eternity.

This was a sad, messy movie, and I loved it. It treats love not as some switch to get flipped, or clothes to grow into, but as a series of decisions that will lead you to a destination that might not even exist. Little allowances, little gambles, and then... who knows? If you're lucky, there'll be stars to guide you.

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Yeah, this is probably the instalment of Chou Den-O I remember the least. The others have something I remember, this one has, at most, the line that got me into a Facebook group about Tokusatsu screenshots taken out of context (I’ve been waiting four months to climax)

Also, this movie brings us the idea that Imagin kill their contractor’s past selves when they travel to the past. Which basically means that Kintaros killed a guy in his first appearance while trying to save him.

Maybe it'll come up again in the next couple films, but assuming it doesn't? I'm going to read the whole Imagin Kill Past Selves as an optional thing. The Imagin can burn out someone if they use them to travel, but it's not necessary. Otherwise, it's a super weird thing to bring up this late in the franchise, and it's probably refuted by a majority of episodes.

I feel a bit bad saying this right after someone else also said basically what I'm about to say, and it concerns a movie you clearly loved; but this one also didn't do much for me and I don't remember much from it. But! That's also because Zeronos himself didn't do much for me in Den-O, I was very much there for everything going on with Ryotaro and his group of Imagin. I think you put across in this thread a bunch of reasons why that would have been the experience for me and possibly others; as the Zeronos plot - no matter its quality - does contrast a little too much with Den-O's usual tone.

But! But but but. More important but than the last. I loved reading this review because it made me come around on certain things going on with the character, and I really get why you liked this story and this movie. I think it's the sort of thing I might appreciate a lot on a rewatch these days; and rewatching Den-O definitely does not sound like a bad time

The thing I remember most about this movie was poor Momotaros getting stuck in the past again and having to work a strenuous job to survive. That conflict was much more interesting to me than anything to do with Yuto/Airi/Sakurai, which I really didn't need a movie about after the show bored me with that subplot already.

I think that's why I was immediately into it, though: it's so different from Den-O's usual tone. (Although, crucially, not that different from the usual tone of stories about Yuuto. Those are all fairly bleak!) The previous Den-O movies all felt, to varying degrees, like they were inessential. They were just spinning out more adventures, without really having a ton to say. With this one, it carves out a place for itself tonally, and then tells a story about how to not be dragged under by memory. It reinvented itself as a property just enough to feel vital again, fo me.

Also, gosh, I don't ever want folks to feel even a bit bad for having a different take on these shows! I'm looking for conversation, not consensus.

Aw, thanks. This one was tough to write about (some from being out of practice, some from having this one hit hard narratively), so I'm glad I was able to communicate some of the movie's positive attributes, even if they weren't ones you found in it.

And, yeah, Den-O rewatch! I can't imagine you'd feel it was time wasted.

This one had Momo living on the street, so you might be thinking about a different subplot? There was a brief scene of the Imagins needing to anchor the Den-Liner, and Momo throws out his back, so maybe that's what you're thinking of?

I recall that was a part of it as well, but your memory would be more reliable than mine here, with you having just watched it. I definitely remember that Momotaros had it rough in this movie though.

Oh the 'homeless Momotaros' thing was in this?? I LOVED that! That was so fun. I couldn't quite recall which movie it was in though I was pretty sure it was in this trilogy

Oh, I know; I just didn't want it to feel like... it was coming down on you, y'know? Few things worse than expressing how much you liked something and then getting a bunch of people telling you how bad it is

It made me extremely happy to see you giving such well-stated praise to this movie for the stuff it does with Airi and Yuuto. I recall you being ~significantly~ less enthusiastic about all the wistful Time Nonsense stuff with them in the series than I am, so it's nice to see Den-O telling a story about that that finally managed to land for you. I don't think there's anything I can really add here, besides saying "yeah, I liked this one too!" Not that I even need to say that when I've made it more than clear what a huge Zeronos fan I am.

You just don't see a lot of other Rider movies willing to have a five minute scene consisting of nothing but two characters chatting over coffee, you know?

(I am very happy to have this thread to distract me from some very tedious weekly ordering with a vendor!)

Momo is pretty firmly in a Comedic Suffering role for this film, and it's really great. The entire Den-Liner crew is fairly tangential to what's really going on -- even Deneb is surplus to requirements! DENEB! -- so they're here to goof around. The quick gag of Momo becoming accidentally unhoused is terrific, if only for how relieved and grateful he is to see Ryotaro, and neither the viewer nor Ryotaro is clear on what the hell is going on. It's a really funny gag (the universe piles it on Momo this movie), but it also manages to get us some exposition for why the contract holder is obsessed with looking awesome for Airi. Smart, economical writing!

It's appreciated! I mostly don't mind if my tastes don't align with everyone else's, so as long as things stay civil? I get as much enjoyment out of reading disagreements as the alternative.

Movies like this one... god, it wouldn't bother me if everyone in the world hated it, because I still had my experience with it. It wouldn't be any less special if people thought I was a sap for enjoying it.

The coffee scene is the best scene in the movie!!!

My favorite motif in the film is how the telescope is Sakurai now, and how both Yuuto and Airi feel the weight of him/it as they try and have their little coffee date. Those guilty glances from Airi, the way Yuuto withers a bit under its perceived judgment... it's so good! It's shot and acted so well!

And then the whole metaphor of Yuuto's distaste for bitter drinks! And how that's not what Sakurai would do! And maybe someday Yuuto will drink his coffee like Sakurai! And how that's incredibly unfair to Yuuto that he should have that pressure put on him! And how trapped Yuuto is in his development! And how unfortunately culpable Airi is in maintaining that prison!

!!!!!!!!!

Best scene!

No, he didn't. Imagine can only time travel when they've completed the contract, and Kintaros never completed his. It's the entire reason he almost disappered.

ahhh the Cho Den-O trillogy in which TOEI took this franchise's still warm corpse and pissed all over it

ok red is not good but acceptable, blue's actually decent, yellow on the otherhand was almost as bad as the Cho Den-O movie

Interesting take! Honestly, Red is the first post-show piece of Den-O content that feels vital to the themes and characters of the show. I thought it did a great job of creating an epilogue to Yuuto and Airi's story. Sorry it doesn't seem to have worked for you!