Wait, I didn't know Virus killed people?

EDIT: Rewatching Virus, he actually explicitly states after the first death that he's going to stay on the case, even though Akiko suggests dropping it. "Someone died right before my eyes. Am I supposed to just withdraw from that!?"

Yeah it got vengeance on like three people. And when it was just the boss left, he finally acted. And it isn't like he couldn't have helped those people, he just made absolutely no effort to do so.

Everyone tells me that, I will soon, I hope. Sometime this year.

Second death: Shotaro is tailing the two thugs, and before he can do anything the car "runs down" one guy, at which point Shotaro is then chased by the car, then grabs onto it rather than let it go because Philip won't transform.

No! You watch it now!

*Cracks whip*

Watched Gaim 2-6. It feels... kinda rushed. Esp. ep 5, I really don't see why they crammed 2 riders and a upgrade into the same episode. One new form/rider per episode is kinda neat, but they're really pushing it.

It's not before he can do anything though, he just hides behind the pillar and then after the guy gets killed, he springs into action. It really makes no sense for Sho as a character, who moves heaven and Earth otherwise.

Plus although there is repercussion for the first death. LITERALLY the episode before this one Sho gives the speech about how letting a client get hurt makes you worse than scum. Then his client dies and the show brushes it off. This would surely be the most pivotal character moment for him in the entire show. But nope I guess not...

Hey Locke, since your through the first few Accel episodes, did you notice how Terui and Shotaro have similar first two opponents? One elemental and one dinosaur. I enjoyed that nice little touch.

And then the next time the car attacks, W races to the scene and stops it from killing the third guy. At which point he attempts to reason with the driver of the car. "I can't let you do this!" At which point he destroys the virus car and the episode ends.

I was wondering if there was something in that. They even gave Aya that same framing effect for when she spoke while transformed!

Oh it was two guys? I thought it was three. Still, that is two guys he didn't help. One would be bad enough.

Next episode, the virus Dopant appears itself and kills the guy before Shotaro has a chance to act, which he curses. Mostly because it appeared out of nowhere just after the car was destroyed. Next time it attacks, he saves the guy. Afterthat, the Dopant escapes, later returns, and after a brief chase with the guy W defeats it.

At no point was Shotaro unheroic. He hesitated after the last kill, but only because he felt the Dopant wasn't a typical aggressor, and that it was "crying." At no point did he let anyone die, they were all killed before he had time to intervene, even though he acted. He didn't save them, but he didn't let them be killed.

So yeah, three guys. One happened before Shotaro even knew about the car. The second in the parking garage before Shotaro could do anything. The third was a surprise after he beat the car and the Dopant quickly ensnared the guy and infected him before Shotaro could even switch to Luna.

First one, he rolled out of the way and Virus got him - he felt bad about this, but considering the episode that came before this it wasn't nearly as much of a big deal as it should have been.
Second he hid behind the pillar, when he could of acted and just didn't.
Third one, I don't actually remember very well.
Fourth one - he puts the wrong person in the hospital, this is ultimately a justified act, but left a sort of lingering awkwardness as someone who wasn't really a villain was left by the end of the episode hobbling around on crutches because of W.

I kinda blocked a lot of this arc out of my mind, as it had some good visuals but Sho was terribly written this episode and it didn't carry the continuity or themes of the show very well at all. If I just forget Virus ever happened Sho is a much better hero, and with the fact that none of the events of this arc seem to play on him at all, I guess the show forgot all this happened.

I also perfectly appreciate that a hero can't save anyone, as a big comics fan, I've seen this story done a LOT of times. But considering how much he failed during the Virus arc, I think he's a bit of a dick to ride on a high horse as much as he does around Ryu and Ryu's more questionable approaches to justice.

Well, the dude did just run away, leaving Shotaro with nothing else to actually do.

No, he hid behind the pillar after the car had run the guy down. He was tailing the two thugs, and they were up the parking garage ramps and he was near the entrance.

That was right after he blew up the car. Virus attacked from above in the walkways and pipes and snared the guy.

He was in crutches because he ran a bunch of people down and W had no choice but to destroy the car.

Sho should have been aware of the space around him. If he rolls out of the way of the car, of course it's going to go straight into the victim. And oh yeah, the second one is when Sho runs away with the criminals, rather than standing his ground and fighting allowing them to get away. He should have attempted to slow down the car, or block it. And before you tell me that is risky, well yeah, look at everything else he has done. It just felt like he didn't try, considering all we've seen him do for people in every other episode.

And the fourth one was just kinda brutal, is all. We don't generally see what happens after a Memory Smash, their eyes just go a bit tired and then pass out and it cuts away. So to actually see him left hospitalised and broken was a bit problematic. Especially as the arc never quite once condemned his actions.

That's really pushing it, though. You've turned it from "he's unheroic" to "he should've been faster."

He not going to be able to save everyone. Especially when the first time the guy left him and ran away. What was Shotaro going to do, get hit by the car?

The fourth one totally isn't his fault. He thought the car driver was the Dopant, and memory breaks usually don't injure them. The idea being a Maximum Drive overloads the memory to the point where it's just enough to break the memory, leaving the person unharmed aside from the withdrawl symptoms. Thing is, since the car was only controlled by the dopant, it didn't offer him any protection. W didn't know that. (And that's pretty reasonable since the car kept turning into a monster and driving while smashed)

Your best case is the parking garage bit, but even then it's not really blatant unheroics when immediately after he jumps onto the car in an attempt to stop it. I'd credit it to poor staging rather than poor characterization. The scene could've been shot to more clearly show the distance away from Shotaro. I do blame Philip, though, as he was more concerned with proving ridiculous superstitions than saving peopel while Shotaro was.

And all this hardly makes his character hypocritical. That was much earlier in the show, and I've always been of the mind that the early episodes feel much less finely tuned. Why that is considered the baseline rather than a hiccup I don't get, since as you said the show clearly makes him heroic.

It's still a damn fine better than waiting in the shadows while a woman is consumed before you so you can strut out like a cocky prick and dictate morals to a monster who clearly doesn't give a shit- sorry, sorry, I just... dammit Otoya, you couldn't even pretend to feel bad that someone was murdered before you?

W 23. Man Ryu and Sho are so gay. Ryu pulled Sho right into his crotch, and then Sho pulled Ryu right into his face. I knew something was suspicious about Ryu, with his leathers and little boy haircut.

An X-Factor Parody episode? Dafook. It was pretty funny though, to be fair. When this show does comedy, it really does it well. It proves you don't have to do that goofy crap sentai does. I guess a big part of that is Riders ability to really make you care for the characters.

The Liar Dopant was really cool looking, and probably the best quality of suit we've seen in the show so far. Seriously wishing the Sonozaki got some of these suits, rather than shit like Clay Doll and Terror.

Considering how regularly, and poorly, toku generally treats women, it's nice that Saeko is such a great villain. And so ridiculously independent as well. It may kinda go against her that she is a villain, but I'd certainly like more of her and less of 'the pink one' women of super sentai. Plus she is really hot (:lol), Weather must have thought Christmas had come early when she turned up all dolled up for him.

On the other hand, I really don't like how Wakana has grown into someone so cutesy and goofy. I liked it before when she pretended to be a princess, and was actually a bit of bitch. Really she doesn't feel like a villain AT ALL any more, but then maybe that is the point.

Then there is Terror, our big bad. He's probably the least threatening big bad I've ever met. Not only is the Terror suit rubbish, but he's just this slightly creepy looking old guy who seems to be in more gag scenes than he is serious ones. I never really feel any intensity or menace from him at all.

Also man, Weather's outfit and theme music, so ridiculous!

@Split. I didn't change it, you convinced me! :D I still overall thought it was a pretty shit spectacle of Sho as a hero, and an arc best left forgotten. Even if there is arguments that he isn't nearly as bad as the arc makes him come across.

:lolol God I think I remember what you're talking about.


Quoting this because... oh you'll see.

The Dopants really improve as time goes on, but still remain nicely varied. It REALLY makes me wish the Sonozakis upgraded or something.

Saeko was REALLY well done. Also, love the word play on her name.

I'm pretty sure it is. She should be becoming less villainistic after talking with Philip more.

Like I said, I just consider it a technical failing rather than something to hold against W overall. Those were still very much the eps where the show was finding it's footing.

I think W had a bit of a time because before that Rider shows had a bit of a pattern that exists even today. Overtly, they were starting to switch motif patterns between the esoteric and mystical to technological. Like Kuuga/Agito/Ryuki being very 'magical' riders, and Faiz/Blade looking more technical. (Faiz moreso) Then of course Hibiki was oni, then Kabuto was techno, etc. There was also a somewhat of a tonal pattern kicking up. Kabuto was serious and fairly dark, but Den-O was bright and cartoony. Then Kiva brought back gratuitous civilian deaths and stare-at-the-floor riders. Then Decade happened, and since it was a special event series, it was kind of all over the place. So W was kind of left without anything to solidly contrast. I think that's why it wasn't sure if it wanted to be lighter or darker at first, but it sorted and evened out quickly IMO.

Though the tones are much less black and white, the motif pattern actually remains stronger now. W is technology, OOO is mysticism, Fourze was space and gadgets, Wizard was magic, and now gaim is a bit more of a fusion, but the armours are all clearly mechanical and teh Sengoku driver is constructed technology verses a mystical artifcat or something.

The thing is, it isn't even a moment the show draws attention to, so it feels totally unscripted. Ryu x Sho fo'life. And here I was thinking Sho was coming onto Phillip this whole time! (eyebrows at the w entendre there).

I wish they designed the Sonozaki's at the end, when they'd really grasped some cool ideas for the suits. Most of the early designs can be written off, like Money *shudder*

I can deal with Wakana being a hero, but I wanted Nazca to become a Kamen Rider ;-; I also heard nothing back from Mandrake so I don't think I got the SHF D:

Seriously Kiva's whole cast deserved a kick in the nuts at one point.>.>

W 24. That scene on the beach! And when they dress up to catch Liar! I laughed so hard tears came out.

Wouldn't the fall from the building have killed Liar? Last time Sho fought that high up, he caught the guy. Awkward. It was a pretty great fight though, I guess Accel's bike form has its uses after all.

And oh man, Weather, what a nutter.

Agito 44-Well so much stuff is spoiler-y: Wow just wow, more into the mysteries behind both Shouichi's sister's death and Mana's Father's death and how they are connected. Some of the things like Mana's uncle being involved I caught and knowing Yukina was the first Agito too. These things are really coming together. The damn Man of Darkness guy took Ryou's powers which sucks because I love Gills, one of my favorite secondary riders and one of the best fighters. I'm glad Kino evolved too I'm sad to see him without powers too. Shouichi is really frustrated and angry right now, he just punched one of the Unknown's head in and they exploded, just wow. Great ending so far, can't wait for more.

Shotaro riding Terui was one of the greatest moments in the show :lol. It sounds really odd out of context, but it was a really good moment IMO. Back then then main and secondary Riders working that well together so soon was unheard of.

That was a really epic fight, considering Liar wasn't really a fighting Dopant, I was really surprised to see W go flying down the side of a building, before Ryu and W basically did a joint Rider kick and sent Liar flying back over the other side of the building.

Reminds me so much of when GARO and ZERO finally clash.

I love that episode. :lol

Man the dress up scheme. It's frightening how well Philip pases for a girl. He already dresses weird enough. :lol

Well Phillip is so pretty anyway, what are these FEELINGS.

(:lol)

Anyone else think Kuuga's awesome?

I think Kuuga is awesome.

I was rewatching Kuuga a few months ago. Got distracted and didn't finish it, but that's sorta my thing when it comes to KR lately. I've started Kuuga, Ryuki, Faiz, Blade, Kabuto, Wizard and Gaim, but end up getting distracted and leave them behind for weeks. I'm so close to finishing Ryuki, i'm really going to try focusing on finishing it in the near future, then probably Faiz.

I think Kuuga is shit. It is quite possibly my least favourite show of all time. I have explained why like nine thousand times, so I wont repeat myself again, but if you search this thread you can find one of my many rants on the failing of the series to many replies of 'but...but...I got nothing.'

Do not deny these feelings. Suda Masaki (Philip's actor) is a very pretty, pretty man...

Only toku could make me as a straight man have a crush on a guy :lol

I would feel bad if I was Akiko as well, she has to compete with THAT.

I've seen you complain about quite a few KR shows in this thread.

Out of curiosity, are there any you actually like?

I'm glad you're enjoying W, but I can't think of any other Kamen Rider show I've heard you speak positively of. I've really been wondering for a while if perhaps toku isn't the genre for you. But perhaps I've missed what shows you do like.

Well Toku isn't just Kamen Rider.

Out of completed KR shows.

Adored OOO. It got off to a pretty bad start, but it was all awesome from there. Largely because of Date and Brotou.

I think everything in Fourze up to Meteor's introduction is perfection.

I loved Wizard on and off throughout the whole series.

Black was pretty great, but the repetition got a little boring after a while.

Adore Kamen Rider Dragon Knight.

Which is funny because I like Kuuga*which you hate* and hate Dragon Knight.*which you love.*:lol

I know, but this is the only What You Watching thread I follow regularly. :)


Interesting. Well, I'm glad you like some of the shows anyway, even if you don't like the ones I like the most. Which is everything I've seen so far. But then again, I've never said I was all that discriminating of a viewer, either.

I am very critical, being critical is how I process and enjoy shows, I've still enjoyed way more than I haven't, even if it doesn't seem that way. Kuuga is the only KR show I've finished that I flatout hated. I've enjoyed a lot of Gaim, Den-O and Faiz but finished none of them, I really want to though.

I've dropped Blade, Kabuto and Kiva but am in the sorta process of trying Blade again. I can't get over the shitty effects.

These comments need to stop.

Everybody needs to seriously put a lockdown on the phrase "is the anything you do like?" It is honestly one of the most insulting things you can say, because of course there is. I have a hard time believing you can't remember him liking Wizard when he's easily the most vocal proponent of the show. And if you didn't, why would you question that if you don't know him that well.

I see this said far too much and it is honestly really God damn annoying. It puts down people's views more than actual negative opinions, and promotes a singling-out mentality. That because someone vocally dislikes something, they don't like "anything." I've heard it too many times.

Sorry if I sound like I'm ragging on you Ryan, I'm not. But I'm just seeing that phrasing far too often, which is too say at all. There's a difference between disagreeing with someone, and putting them down.

Aw thanks Split ;-;

But yeah, it may be lonely in this 'I like Wizard' treehouse, but dammit I'm gonna stay here with my mayonnaise and plastic rings and poorly realised mythology.