Originally Posted by Frontier (Post 822594)

Also, Faiz was my first Rider, he's my favorite Rider...but did they really need to retcon how Kusaka died?

Originally Posted by GrandComplete (Post 822595)

My best guess? It to simplify Faiz final arc for newcomers. Since the details aren't technically wrong; Faiz fights Orphenoch King, Yuji kill Kusaka it just decide to mash it into one flashback

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich (Post 749859)

This is not a great movie, but I've always liked it a fair bit. It's like the awkard halfway point between the generally quite awful Super Hero Taisen films, and the generally quite good Heisei Generations movies. Something that exists right in this period where Toei was clearly trying to get their crap together when it came to doing these big fanservice events, but still hadn't really figured it out.

There's a lot of the usual pointless glorified suits with unfitting voices, on one hand. OOO's habit of whiffing on Rider Kicks hits a new low when he gets Rope Armed out of the air by Riderman and then explodes. Black and Black RX are apparently partners now. Kenichi Suzumura is voicing Fourze for some reason. J is boiled down to being "that big one" again. It's got all the hallmarks of the era of movies that started during Decade.

On the other hand, it's also got, for one of the first truly notable times, returning actors who are actually allowed the screentime to matter. Hiroshi Fujioka is back, in person, and while he only gets two scenes, he owns every second he appears, and the fact that he was there at all legitimately had a huge amount of novelty to it at the time. Then, of course, you have Takkun, who's the reason I'm doing this right now. He gets by far the meatiest part of all the guest actors, especially when he gets to share the spotlight with X for the 13 minute segment of this movie that plays out like some lost episode of Faiz. Which is awesome! Going that length of time with what is largely just human characters talking, with no absurd doomsday devices or overly complex plans getting in the way, does not happen in movies like this, and I savor every minute of it. Takumi is great here, and just on a side note, I appreciate the detail of him going from his initial necklace from the show to the on-brand phi one from later once he becomes a Rider again. I appreciate little touches like that. I also appreciate that Haruto was also in this movie and got to tell Takkun he'd be his hope. I appreciate that a lot, actually. You gotta understand, back in 2014 I thought it was going to be cool just to have my two favorite Rider protagonists in the same movie. I scarcely expected them to even interact, let alone what I got. I'm probably the only one who cares, but that's exactly why I love that moment so much. I swear they actually made it specifically for me.

The story that holds all of this together is unfortunately leaning a lot more towards typical crossover nonsense. I actually like Fifteen quite a lot. A cool looking skeleton guy who can use all the heroes' powers. That's neat. As an actual character, though, he's a little underbaked. Which isn't even the movie's big problem, which is instead that it makes the Showa Riders look like huge jerks. Hongou must've got up on the wrong side of the bed that day. I'd joke that the overly complicated plan he comes up with to stop Badan was just a pretense to wail on the new generation, but it stops being a joke as soon as he drops even the pretense, and just sicks his crew on the Heisei Riders for no reason whatsoever. The ending to this movie is the stupidest and best thing ever. The real one I mean. Not the Showa one that's basically a lamer version of the same thing. No, I'm talking about Kouta's legendary defense of some random flower on some beach. It's such an over the top, absurd way for the conflict to resolve, I can't help but love it. I mean, I've got to agree with Hongou on this one. If your dedication to protecting life is hardcore enough that you'll try tanking a Rider Kick to save foliage, I think it's safe to say your kindness isn't making you weak.

So I don't know. It's the usual noisy mess for the most part, and it doesn't make much sense, but by the time it wraps up, and that new version of Dragon Road starts playing, it feels like it comes together into something that's maybe more than the sum of its parts.

Originally Posted by TheRaizin (Post 822582)

Second, Shotaro. I liked him going Joker first and facing off against BLACK/RX, I think that was a cool fight. It reminded me of what could've been had Double's final episode not happen. Just Shotaro being alone as Kamen Rider Joker.

Originally Posted by Kurona (Post 822583)

I actually really really liked the Takumi-feels-guilty-over-Kusaka stuff in this movie? It might not do the best job of selling the idea of Takumi being guilty over it, but... well, survivor's guilt is a thing! I 100% believe that even in the most positive ending of 555 where he's surrounded by friends, eventually a few years down the line as he just continued living life, those thoughts would enter his head. Getting away from someone like that is extremely difficult -- and that was always Kusaka's whole thing! He is a colossally, irrefutably awful person who still manages to get in your head, still manages to fill you with doubt. And I don't like the idea that this is what would immediately happen after 555 or even a year after, like a V-Cin or something; but as you said this is more than ten years later, so I'm able to buy into this a lot more! I think it's a very well rounded arc for him and that his stuff with Keisuke actually had me thinking at one point that I would absolutely love this if it was just some random 555/X crossover that happened to come out around now. Seeing Kusaka explode into dust two new times is the icing on top of that cake!

Originally Posted by FreshToku (Post 822587)

I liked the little 555 bits okay, though I think what would have at least been a better angle is if Takumi's survivor's guilt was for Kiba rather than Kusaka, though there's multiple reasons why that couldn't have happened.

Originally Posted by Switchblade (Post 822589)

It also gave us the Haruto cameo, which I love because a) Haruto and 2) it does a much better job than normal of selling the idea that these are all the actual Riders, even though very few of them are ever out of suit.

Originally Posted by Switchblade (Post 822591)

Kusaka trolling Takumi from beyond the grave 100% fits him

Originally Posted by GrandComplete (Post 822592)

My biggest issue is that they keep repeating thst Showa and Heisei can't mixed when like that ignores the last 5 years worth of crossovers where that same thing decrying happens. And even after this movie ignores and have Showa and Heisei work together. The worst part is that most of these were made by Shirakura and Yonemura.

Originally Posted by Frontier (Post 822594)

Also, Faiz was my first Rider, he's my favorite Rider...but did they really need to retcon how Kusaka died?

Originally Posted by Kurona (Post 822598)

I always felt it was just how Takumi himself was remembering it. It's all purely from his perspective and his point of view the way it's presented in the scene rather than an 'objective' flashback, so it's more about what he's focusing on personally

Originally Posted by catwhowalks (Post 822596)

The reason why the ending with the final fight between the Showa and Heisei guys is the way it is was because the movie doesn't actually have a firm ending. They filmed two endings to the fight, one where Showa wins and one where Hesei wins and put it up to an audience vote as to which to would show. The other ending is included with some fan translations. So there isn't really a set ending that they planned. It was all a popularity contest and not a properly written story element that mattered in the slightest.

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich (Post 822600)

I think the key reason, for me, why I don't at all mind how stupid the actual Showa vs. Heisei conflict is boils down to it not ending that way? Which, you know, of course it ends with everyone getting along, but I don't know, there's just something about all those Riders standing on that beach saying that it's cool to truck with Showa and Heisei alike that makes me wanna forgive everything leading up to it. Like I said, I feel this one is maybe more than the sum of its parts. It's got so, so many of those typical dumb Yonemura movie flaws, but it's another one I maintain a notable soft spot for.

Originally Posted by gashatfreak (Post 822609)

This movie felt like a fever dream to me so I don't remember much but I think I vaguely recalled Kyoryu Red and the ToQgers showing up or something?