Ex-Aid I actually give way to a little. It's still a problem, sure; but Ex-Aid manages to spin it to its advantage by making it its aesthetic. It just owns the idea of Emu getting a new gashat every 2 seconds by making everything flashy and over-the-top and ridiculous in my opinion; everything's so wild and bizarre that, sure, new power-ups everywhere actually kinda works! Have Kuroto develop a second Gear Gashat Dual basically minutes before Hiiro gets another new power-up essentially rendering that action stupidly pointless, why not? This whole season is dumb, let's just completely f*ck around!


... it fits significantly less for a series like Build, where despite a lot of levity and many comedic moments; is at its core a series set in a dark dystopian alternate universe where corrupt politicians turned a country-splitting tragedy into an ideology of hate so that weapons industries have an angle to create wars they can profiteer off of all the while some snake bastard in the background is deadset on mentally torturing our main characters in cruel and unnecessary ways!

You know doing a count on who actually finished a Final Boss in what form... we only really have 5 (Den-O, Fourze, Wizard, Ghost, Ex-Aid) of our 20 Riders that did that? And even then I'd say there were special enough circumstances as to why they ended it in their base forms. 6 if you really want to count Build switching from RabbitDragon to RabbitTank at the last second for some weird reason other than they didn't want to use the CG for any longer than they had to.

But that's only like 25% out 100%

Then you've got cases like the previously mentioned RabbitDragon, alongside OOO (Unless you count Tajador but that's a whole other discussion) and Oma Zi-O as cases where the Final Form doesn't finish it but a different/stronger form takes it's place.

And then you've got every other single Rider who finishes it in their Final Forms from what I'm recalling. It's definitely more common for base forms to finish the job in the later half of Heisei, but it's not a standard.

With Zero One's new form, especially with the dual insert gimmick and the progrise key gimmick that matches what Thouser's overall design gimmick was, it could be something that we see the two working together on.

As for whether or not it is the new form, I think it comes down to whether or not Isu becomes a sort of on-board AI for the fighting or if she directly links to him during the process. In the series that has an intregal side character to the plot such as W and Drive, has the characters joining up as 1 rider. If that happens, then this will be the final form. There is some minor evidence to suggest this, as the unfolded section mimics the Satellite Zea a bit, which has been another key component to the series. If it isn't, then I expect this to be 1 component of the final form.

From a toy perspective, it feels a bit of a waste to have 1 dual product needed to do your grand finale. To compare it with something, look at Ex-Aid, Gaim, and Build's final form. All of them had some extra slot/gimmick that became core to their later upgrades/forms.

Looking at the timing of the show, it doesn't give them much time, as this upgrade will probably have to be introduced by episode 38 if it is not the final form. That way, they will roughly have 6 to 8 episodes to try and show off the form before moving onto the final form, which would have the inserted piece and a newer progrise key that comes from Isu besides her personal progrise key.

I don't know, I feel like it fits just as well in Build. The fact that each side is having to constantly make stronger, more powerful suits because the other sides are doing the exact same, just to hold an ever-fleeting advantage so they can survive, with Stalk egging them on because he finds it incredibly amusing, and also because he's on top the entire time.

There is that to it, but I don't feel it works half the time. Genius and Sparkling feel completely superfluous while you absolutely could have cut out half the fullbottles and lost nothing of value.

the unfortunate problems of power scaling in tokusatsu lol even the final form technecally gets devalued if ya count the movie even moreee stronger...er forms. ive only gotten into japanese toku like last year an even i totally understand this problem.
no wonder showa riders hate the new kids XD

Not really because those forms usually are only "Movie Exclusive"

The next time they appear somewhere else and they transform into their Final Forms. It'll be into the one from their respective series.

I've been thinking this through on and off today, and I disagree. Not with the Fullbottles, there are a tonne of those, but with Sparkling and Genius.

You need Sparkling to make Grease hit hard. RabbitTank jobs on and off to NightRogue and BloodStalk throughout the first arc, but at the end comes Sparkling, a representation of Sento freeing himself fron Isurugi, of gaining new power from his own creation, rather than that of the Smash... and then Grease comes along and his new power up gets trashed on almost instantly. That slap-in-the-face just wouldn't hit so hard (in hindsight) with only the base form or variations upon it, you need something in the middle to make Grease seem insurmountable so when Blood Stalk shows up offering him just a little trigger to make himself stronger, to help stop Banjou doping himself on Sclash-Steroids, he takes it. Because he already tried his own work, and it didn't cut it.

Note - I think my appreciation for Sparkling just jumped 1000% writing that.

I don't have as much to say about Genius, other than it works nicely as both a metaphorical and obvious culmination of eveything Sento's got, plus it looks good. There's probably something in my head about how it also ties in with him finally starting to work with his past, rather than against it, given the arc it directly comes off (plus otherwise people would just be complaining that Evol is too weak because his double upgrades don't work against a bouncy stick boy).

If you really wanna talk about superfluous forms, how about Great Cross-Z? Because as much as I love that design, it shows up for five minutes and is then never seen again.

Anyway, I'm done derailing the Zero-One thread. Zero-Two looked a little weird to me at first, but I think it was just the "#2 pose" looking kinda goofy. The other scans make it look fine, certainly an unusual final form but new era, new design philosophy. Still not as good as Shining Assault Hopper.

oh true true but i ment from a power scaling perspective like say super tatoba
or cross build or joker extreme but since the canon of rider movies are weird anyway ehh lol
good point tho, forgot about that factor

Depends on the director. Sakamoto used movie exclusive forms for a final form line up in Ultimatum. Same goes to Hidenori Ishida in Wizard's crossover finale. Shibasaki has also used past movie forms in his movies, although he has never done a final form line up.

That said, based on recent movies, it seems like Kamihoriuchi and Ryuta Tasaki don't care for movie forms (Osamu Kaneda also didn't care for them, but at least he isn't directing anymore).

So looking at the vinyl figure of Zero-Two and I realize something that makes me like the form even more.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...nRWAAg7Eaz.png

He's essentially a combination of a modern rider and a Showa rider. The red forearms and gloves, the scarf-like detail protruding from his left shoulder blade, it's essentially Zero-One taking on details from the likes of someone like Kamen Rider Nigou. Which is actually fairly fitting considering the name "Zero-Two" and Kamen Rider Ichi-Gata's existence.

Exactly. :rock:
And the color scheme is well-executed in my opinion and the further addition of red and silver does wonders to the suit.

I think that’s exactly what they were going for.

That said, the end result is still not great. Perhaps if they had changed the shade of green, or replaced it with teal or something that doesn’t look quite so bad next to the red. As it is it’s just garish and loud. Zero One works because the neon green is the only colour (ignoring the eyes, though they’re also a darker red) and whatever isn’t green is black or near-black. The silver, red and green all vying for dominance looks cluttered and disjointed.

The fact that it’s not a separate rider also kinda feels lacklustre.

Honestly, stiiiiiiill really hoping that this is just a "two part" form even though we got that with Shining and Shining Assault Hopper. Hell, I'd be down with just a general upgrade to the other forms like Biting Shark or Freezing Bear ala Kuuga Rising forms or Wizard Dragon forms. Zero-Two is a decent looking form, but I still think they could've gone with something that was more noticeably different than Zero-One Rising Hopper. I mean, when you get down to it, Agito Shining was more obviously different than Agito Ground, and with Faiz Blaster, Faiz got entirely new weapons.

Zero-Two really has none of that. The new details between Zero-Two and Zero-One Rising Hopper are few, and we don't get a new weapon with Zero-Two. It's just repeating the whole "mid-season weapon is also final form weapon" formula we've been stuck with ever since Gaim. I get that Zero-Two is more of a hardware upgrade, I just wish that it was an upgrade that made Zero-Two look more different than just a slightly redressed Rising Hopper.

this has been driving me butt nuts cuz i thought i was having some blue
gold dress thing happening to my brain but...zero one is clearly yellow lol that...isnt even close to any shade of green XD
the only times he looks green is when hes glowing or in certain promotional images but...the dudes yellow yo.
or atleast highlighter.
ironically ive seen some actual green photoshopes for zero two an they look wayyyyy better. its the best example of just using basic photoshop an changing the colors around an bam.
theres gonna be alotttttt of superior figure customs an fan art designs. heck there already is of the latter, its weird
i too just hope we get zero two versions of zero ones forms cuz otherwise gahhh this forms boring otherwise. i anticipate awesome fan designs but ill then im unsatisfied aswell

It's confirmed. Zero Two if the final form.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...601_142854.jpg

Well, I'm kinda disappointed now. Kind of a letdown after getting some pretty solid Zero-One forms, too. I mean, I would've at least liked to see Zero-Two have its own alternate forms. Again, it's not bad, just... really underwhelming compared to past final forms. And this is coming from a guy who's liked all of them. Zero-Two's managed to finally do it, I finally have a "least favorite" KR final form, something I didn't think could happen. And it's in no fault of it being a poorly designed form, it's just... not a final form to me. Like my brother compared this to Frieza's form progression and that he liked it 'cuz it was basically Frieza getting so strong he lost the excess details, but I personally am not a fan of that.

I'm glad it is. I love that they went the modest route. It isn't big and bulky.

Honestly if anything this is a good progression, while it could have taken a bit more from Shining, it ultimately went with Rising Hopper for the good ol Hiden Progression.

Note I'm not saying anything about Shining Assault or Metal Cluster, because they aren't really true Zero-One progressions via Hiden Technology.

Shining Assault borrows a bit from the Ark and combines it's aesthetics from Zero-One. Meta Cluster meanwhile was a full on Ark form with the data used from Shining Assault. Both were branching away from Hiden technology (No matter what MCH says with it's "Hiden Metal" phrase) and more towards the Ark and it's nature.

Meanwhile Zero-Two seems to be going back to Hiden technology full time for a new power that is a progression of the two forms before it.

why do i get the feeling years from now zero one is gonna have alot of "metal cluster is the final form" jokes now like with ooo lol i mean....its easy to rationalize what with zero two technecally being a "new base form" with a "new belt" least until we get the even stronger er an finaler form for the epilogue movie. fan art will eventually supply me atleast with zero two shining hopper. just keep refreshing pixiv -.-
....gah all this talk about new belts equal new forms just means zero two is a wayyyy less cooler version of black RX......if zero two doesnt atleast have cool symphogear punch combos imma be upset

I used to consider it fluorescent yellow-green at one time but nope, it's officially fluorescent yellow last time I checked. The reason it looks greenish at times other than under blacklight is probably because of lighting when taking promo shots and stuff be it the actual suit or merch.

I mean, I think I might like it more if the shoulder armor was a liiiiiittle more like Metalcluster Hopper. Like it doesn't need to be the same size or shape, just like, a little more sharp? Like I'll be honest, I think Metalcluster Hopper is a pretty good example of a streamline bulky powerup, like it's still decently armored, yet it isn't overtly so. Like, something that would make the silhouette a little less like Zero-One Rising Hopper.

It looks like it changed from "final form" (top) to "latest form" (bottom). What does the big text next to the arrow say?

I have no idea. I was going of what others had said.

Zero One is neon green. A very, very yellowish green, but green. Granted the Sofubi Zero Two is yellow, but the Zero One suit in the show is green.

If it has even a slight tint towards green, it’s green. The Progrisekey keys are also green, Metal Cluster Hopper has green accents. It’s green. Highlighter is also green. (A literal mix of cyan, a shade of blue, and yellow, which is what makes green)

I have a florescent yellow N95 mask. And it is yellow. But from certain angles, it has a tinge of green due to shadowing. But that oes not change the fact that it is yellow.

Nor does that change the fact that Zero One is green.

Not that there’s anything wrong with yellow, of course. It’s a mighty fine colour. It’s just not Zero One’s colour.

But his color is yellow. Everything about him has been yellow. Florescent Yellow.

Zero One is green, though. Fluorescent green.

I guess we must agree to disagree.

As a graphic designer, I am chiming in to say Zero One is closer to fluorescent yellow than fluorescent green.

He's definitely near the line, but I'd say he still falls on the yellow side.

Let's just split the difference and say he's a fluorescent yellow-green rather than either or.

Ignoring the subjectivity of the human eye (and cameras) for a second, I'd just like to point out that, as far as I know, Zero-One has been consistently referred to as yellow in every official capacity. They treated it as a selling point at the press conference IIRC, and that guy who runs the amusement park in the premiere says it was saved by a "mysterious yellow hero".

A column about Zero-One in Quarterly Magazine Uchusen vol. 166 has gone on record to say the bright parts of Kamen Rider Zero-One are indeed fluorescent yellow as they described the suit being "a jet black base suit with fluorescent yellow protectors". And it most likely these articles at the very least get proof-read by clients which is in this case Bandai and Toei so surely the writer did not pull fluorescent yellow randomly. Now to be fair, it is a tricky color to define especially when other elements such as the lighting used when shooting promo shots of the suit or merch comes to play. And like I said before, I too at one point considered it to be a green hue as well until promotional material started defining it as fluorescent yellow. So TL;DR it's fluorescent yellow.

im such a sucker for having conversations like this cuz its so adorablely nerdy but darnit its valid lol
reminds me of random spiderman or sonic conversations or people who color hatsune mikus hair green in fanart (which drives me nutsssss btw)
ahhh color theory an eyes are weird

btw i googled it. yeah zero ones just florescent yellow. he's totally yellow just in certain angles an lightning he looks greenish cuz thats how florescent works i guess, funny enough one just has to look up a figureart to determine this.

Depends if he uses MetalCluster to defeat the final villain.

i love how earlyer in this thread peeps were talking about how pointless final forms are but didnt mention metal cluster.
when you have a tokusatsu hero that essentially has gaaras sand powers but literally with nanomachines....potentially there'd be no reason for aruto to lose cuz nobody could touch him.
metal cluster is like my second favorite when it comes to how fun toku power scaling is, not counting zio or black RX hyper kabuto is still the man tho

To be honest, I'd expected more out the 1st Reiwa Kamen Rider. I didn't think Zero-Two was gonna be the final form; maybe a Hyper Battle DVD form or even a movie form. I'm very disappointed!

The only way they can make this up to fans is one of two ways:
1. Make Zero-Two the new base form and make it compatible with the other Progrizekeys in order to possibly do a Zero-Two Metal Cluster Hopper.

2. Do a complete change in the design even if we gotta wait for a little while like they did with the resdesign of Sonic The Hedgehog.

Yeah a complete redesign isn't happening just cause some westerners are upset they didn't get a bombastic final form.

You're asking too much for a show that's nearing it's ending arc, suit design for Zero-One should be wrapped up by now save for any V-Cinema stuff they have planned.

They've got nothing to make up, clearly they're moving away from the overly busy final forms that we've been getting for most Heisei Riders. Reiwa is a new era, they're gonna be experimental.