I don't think I'll ever be in that situation, OOO and Den-O where my firsts.

It's not a bad thing.
It's just annoying when responses are "Kiva was a crap series, but it was what got me into the franchise, so it gets a free ride."

I dunno about Free Rides, but there is a softening of the blows if it was your first.

Like Wizard was my first, and I know that it had problems up the butt and as I've watched other shows I really saw how flawed it was, but did I have a great time watching it? Damn right I did, I had never watched Kamen Rider before!

I get that a lot whenever I recommend a Rider or Sentai series to a friend, it becomes godly to them and get defensive when small flaws are pointed out.

Though OOO and Den-O were my simultaneous firsts, I still want to make it a thing to watch almost all of them cuz they all bring elements I like. I want to watch Amazon cuz I've seen how batshit crazy he gets and dismembers foes, that's metal, I can roll with that. Meanwhile Gaim's fruit theme is doing zero to reel me in. I eventually do want to watch it cuz I'm hoping the show's character's and plot get me hooked and let me overlook the suit designs, but unghh, this is gonna take awhile when i boot up an ep and instantly wonder what Gentaro is doing in Fourze-land.

I can understand that, but I guess it's when others get oblivious to the obvious problems just so that their introductory series isn't tarnished.

I can understand enjoying any series, the point of the show is for entertainment (And to sell toys but that's not important :lol), so as long as you're entertained, it's doing it's job right.

But enjoyment and quality don't necessarily correlate. I could enjoy a bowl of cup ramen, but it doesn't make it good :p

Oh I agree with that much, I've always hated the internets attitude that being critical = bad attitude and that a true fan simply swallows shit and keeps their mouth shut. A true fan should recognise the flaws of their favourite shows, and critique it for all it's worth and want it to be the best it could be. Not to simply take it as it comes and hold your hands over your ears going BLAHBLAHBLAH.

Wizard and Ryuki...

Why Ryuki? I can understand Wizard but please explain Ryuki to me.

This I gotta hear.

Ok so, I just wrote out a long explanation about this and the tab just killed itself twice... XD Darnnit!

The reason I left the ellipse is that I know this is not a very popular opinion. But, I found that the villains, or Anti-Riders had more charisma and character then that of Shinji and Ren. Which for me? Does not balance out to a good show.

Honestly, I found Shinji and Ren just to be very unlikable characters. Shinji being a brash news-reporter who honestly could not care for others, and Ren... who couldn't give two about anything, because he is the "Totally not Batman" character, which is only ironic given the circumstance.

But, I did honestly find myself sympathizing or being emotionally invested in the villians. Zolda? Very interesting, and I was interested in what he may do next.

The same concept applies to Ouja, who at some point I feel the show should have been about, except instead of a serial killer, have him being more of a Spawn / Anti-Hero archetype I feel would be more overall successful.

Don't get me wrong of course, the show itself? Is not unwatchable, and I did enjoy the last ten or so episodes. But, as a whole... It felt as if I was watching a filler with two unlikable douchebags who kept getting hunted down by other unlikable douchebags with mommy issues.

Just my take on it of course.

Though there are things it did right in my opinion that work for me? For instance the last three episodes? I really dug the plot twist, that the final battle is not between Shinji and Odin. That was cool! However, the one thing that the shows have in common? The waited two long to have any kind of meat, and kept it all half-cooked and soft-brined potatoes.

You approach the show in a very 90's mentality. You call Shinji unlikable when he's, truthfully, one of the most human characters in the Heisei era. You approach Ohja, who had one trait (Count it, one: Kill others. He had no further characterization beyond that) as a more interesting character on no basis other than "He wasn't in the spotlight to start with."

You say Shinji couldn't care for others despite every action he took in the series to prove otherwise? He even saved Asakura's life just because, despite Asakura being a monster (Who at that point, had even killed one of his friends), he wasn't willing to let someone die if he could intervene. Hell, one of the stronger plot lines in Ryuki was Shinji taking the heartless path Ren and Asakura walked.

I'm willing to agree on Ren, but the rest sounds like you weren't paying attention to any scene that didn't feature 2 men in suits wrestling with bad CG effects behind them.

Thank you for the insult I suppose?

Thank you for clarifying everything.

Its okay Kyroryublue, I can agree to disagree with you on Ryuki.

I like Shinji, he's an average dude who gets mixed up in this batshit insane superhero war with assholes, murderers, and criminals and becomes a better person by dealing with it. Sure he's dumb but to me, he's likable.

He didn't insult you, just pointed out how factually incorrect your assesment was. I also agree with Matrixbeast that Ouja was one-track and boring.

Saying Ryuki doesn't care about everyone is the exact opposite of his entire being. He wasn't smart, but he had a very clear sense of morals and justice, and became depressed when he thought he had actually killed someone. When he died, I was shocked. Because he died not as a rider fighting another rider, but as a human trying to save people. His first instinct wa sto protect, not to fight, and he paid the price. Yet in a way, it perfectly capped-off is character. Many rider boldly claim to protect innocents no matter the risk, but Shinji lived it. He literally gave everything to save others. Very powerful message. He cared for human life more than almost any pre-Decade Heisei rider I have seen.

BUT I wholeheartedly agree with you on Zolda and Knight. Zolda was the stand-out character for me. Very multi-sided, very different. He was outwardsly bad, what with being a scummy lawyer and all, but had a strong bond with his "student," genuinely seemed to show interest and feelings for the reporter girl, and when his former bumbling assistant who gets on everyone's nerves shows up, he actually treats her with kindness when he believes she is about to die. Likewise he pays entirely for a sick mother's hospital bills despite not even knowing her. He may not be very sympathetic, but he is very empathetic. It's almost like selflessness brought about by selfishness, which is the most genuine thing I've seen rarely in ANY fiction EVER that I can recall. He was a human being in every sense of the word. He showed that even the most typically villainistic archtypes can be portrayed realistically and with genuine humanity in their imperfections and strengths. This extended to Gorou, who was likewise a former street punk who, at first sight appears punk-ish, but is really humble, dedicated and full of admiration.

Ren, on the other hand, was boring and redundant. He felt totally pointless in the grand scheme. Ouja as well was cartoonishly one-track, having no layers or tricks or hidden sides. He wasn't human, he was just a single baseless motivation and was hyper boring because of that. (but his death scene was INCREDIBLY well done. The whole first half of the last episode was amazingly shot and written)

Hitting the nail on the head sir.

Shinji was a character that I really didn't like the first time around. I thought he was too whiny and silly. It wasn't until I watched the show again that he really clicked for me. He's not the best fighter, but he has the biggest heart of all the Riders and his presence really does change all of the others for the better - even Asakura.

I could not have put it better...though I disagree on Ouja some.

Ouja would've been twice the character he was if he appeared half the time. He simply, by design, was not interesting enough to fill the space he had in the show. If he was more infrequent and not so prominent, he could've been a rouge element that unexpectedly showed up. But instead he was ENTIRELY expected, and predictable. His one-track nature meant there were no twists or clever reveals. He did the exact same thing every time he appeared and it was boring. He never did anything cool, just "I'm a psycho, watch out!" It almost got painful. It DID get painful, especially when the rela demented Tiger showed up, a psychotic killer with a truely twisted mind and outlook. Ouja wasn't twisted, he was just lazy. He didn't even seem that charrismatic. He just looked up with his head down. He had no sophistication, no character. Tiger, at least, thought he was a hero. He was extremely wrong, but that's what crazy people are. Ouja existed purely so that they could have the imagery of a crazy guy with a crazy smile and crazy stare, but did nothing else. He was a jump scare repeated ad-nauseum.

Made worse was the fact that the plot crumbled and fell when he was around. The ammount of purely ridiculous times he escaped police were baffling. The rules of the universe busted whenever he needed them to. Just sloppy. Once he ate an advent card so he could summon a monster to free him, despite not having his deck or being transformed. That's not how advent cards work. He also once switched places with a lawer to escape prison, which hinged on the lawer being incapacitated and the prison doctors taking him away instead, despite not disguising his face at all and the entire senario being IMPOSSIBLE.

And yet all that, and the show STILL gave him an awesome death. And I don't mean that snidely, it was PERFECT. Which only solidifies my opinion and statements I've heard about him originally having a smaller part. He should have, he would've been far more engaging that way.

I think Ren says it best.

"He may be a fool, but he may be a better man than you or I."

Ryuki was full of meaningfull stuff like that. That despite Shinji not being smart, he DIED for what he believed in. Died being the best he could be. He was a true hero, and yes, a better man than any other rider in the show.

When Ryuki was good, it was really good.

Which is why I consider Ryuki my favorite show. It got me hooked to where I was doing nothing day in and out but watching it. It even made me cry :(

You guys are really making me want to watch Ryuki :lol

watch it!

I'm commited at the moment. It sounds like a series I'd need to watch with no distractions so I'll get to it eventually

I saw the Kuuga opening yesterday and I must say, it's awesome indeed.

I feel like I'm missing something. Like, everyone else is hearing something I can't.
I honestly feel like Kuuga has one of the worst themes I've ever heard :lol

It grows on you after a bit

You know what song is aweosme right away?

Agito's theme. That is, until they made a shitty remix.

I (obviously love) Ryuki's theme. I especially like how on the intro version, there's that sort of melody like beep over some of the notes.

Agreed. It's not just my favorite season of Kamen Rider, it is one of my favorite shows period.

Same here. It's easier my favorite Toku show, and I'd easily put it in my top ten favorite shows of all time.

Watch when you have the time, its really good. Its in my top 3 favorite Rider series and I don't think that it will get knocked down easily.

Thanks man I'll check it out.

Everything about Kuuga sucks. It isn't just the worst toku show I've seen, it's one of the worst pieces of media I've seen, period.

I'm sorry but your wrong. Kuuga is at the very least a decent show overall. Yes it's lacking in some areas but that doesn't make it horrible. The fight scenes are good and realistic with both fighters getting hurt and Kuuga's fighting style.

The Grongi are interesting in that you don't know what exactly their doing and even the sub plots are handled well as it shows how others are effected by whats happening around them with the Grongi attacks and people dying.

Yeah yeah I already know the community gives it a free ride for some reason and I've said time and time again what the failings of the show are to largely be ignored and I honestly don't care if you guys like the show but I utterly hated it and as this is a thread for your own personal worst Kamen Rider, mine is Kuuga because it is POO.

Those are some of the reasons I loved Kuuga, add in Yuusuke and his supporting cast too. Kuuga is in my top favorite series and it is greatness!

I eventually want to get through Ryuki, the story interests and the suit designs are great, I just find that Novella-style camera visuals it has grates me. It's probably done on purpose, but felt like I was very aware it was a suit actor jumping around doing stunts. Finding it hard to get enveloped into it because it seems rather fake, though I'll eventually get through it since Shinji as a character really made the show enjoyable, the first few eps I watched.

Sir, I was asked for my opinion, and he belittled it. Though it may a different perspective? Undermining this opinon is considered an insult...