I'm somewhat certain I had orange juice while watching Gaim once.

Subbed shows are one of the only things I actually snack while watching.
I have poor hearing (Not like, near deaf or anything. Just bad hearing xD), and the sound of chewing (Especially crunchy things) don't help. So when I only need to focus on the images on screen, rather than the specific sound cues, I don't have to worry about it.

So I'm sitting here thinking about the themes of Kamen Rider and how despite not seeing a lot of it, they've influenced me.

Particularly I'm looking at things like, what makes us human, the value of human lives over ideals, and environmentalism. To that I'm adding "who changes the world singular heroes or groups of people who realize that they have the power not individuals, because that's important to me.

Mixing these all together I'm getting ideas about a Kamen Rider who has their humanity reassured by an organizer who has just helped them defeat the evil shadow organization, and their puppet government, by pointing out that our actions make us human, and that being willing to die to protect the life of others because you have more power then them is a very human thing.

I don't fully know, I feel like there's a half baked idea here, but I'm not fully sure where it's going.

I guess part of it is, Ishinimori posited that a Kamen Rider walks a lonely path against evil, but I don't agree with that. I think in all of us is a hero who can fight evil given the right tools, hence why it's so important to organize.

Again not sure if this is anything, but I just needed to get some feedback on these thoughts.

Yeah, boy, I don't know if Lonely Path is what I get out of modern Kamen Rider. Coming in through Ex-Aid, and spending a lot of time in the Phase 2 Heisei stuff, one of the big themes I got out of it was Consensus Matters. Like, every time a Rider decides to ignore the wishes of the group, to go out and do what they think is right, they're inevitably punished by the story. Iconoclasm is irresponsible, deference to the group is responsible.

It's actually one of the things that really intrigued me about Kamen Rider at first. So much American superhero storytelling is about rugged individualism, or personal exceptionalism, so a show that was about how we need to work together to decide what the right course of action is, I thought that was really refreshing.

I feel a lot of modern Rider tends to go with the main Rider or a secondary Rider feeling like he's alone; and then the message is that he's not alone and never will be. How subtle and how dramatic that is varies from series to series; but I definitely feel it with Build and OOO.

Yeah that is very much something I forgot about. A lot of Modern Rider is about people with different ideals coming together to solve problems. It's about like the meeting of ideals, because letting one voice dominate (though admittedly one voice does dominate because there's a main character) leads to stagnation.

Hmmmmm *thinks even more*

Yes, and don't forget also that Old Rider was about people standing up to giant organizations led by a singular voice seeking domination over the entirety of humanity. Like, literally in some of those cases the new organizations turned out to be led by the same one voice as the previous ones.

I guess this is aimed equally at both people who think the Showa Era is some wildly different thing as well as people who think modern shows have lost their identity: there's a lot more connective tissue left than might be apparent. The ways these concepts are expressed have changed a lot, for sure, but a lot of the ideas themselves have gone largely unaltered, even into shows as recent as Zero-One.

I should clarify that like... I'm saying 'modern rider' as opposed to Rider in general not because I think Showa Rider doesn't have those aspects, but because the only one I've seen is Amazon. And I guess Shin, ZO and J but obviously that's fitting into a completely different timescale.

I can't effectively comment on Showa! I can only go by hearsay, and I fully believe what you're saying; but without my own impression I don't feel confident in speaking for them.

Admittedly, I'm not like, intimately familiar with them either (Amazon was the only one I'd seen in full until just earlier this year), so maybe I just have undue confidence in speaking for them, but a lot of this stuff was kind of baked right into the premise, from everything I know.

And heck, Amazon? That guy was making friends everywhere he went decades before Gentarou was! One of his best ones was literally just one of the random monsters of the week who ended up being pretty chill. Is that "lonely"? I don't think so, and while Amazon had difficulties communicating that isolated him from humanity a lot of the time, the same way being cyborgs would for other Riders, they all had allies, you know?

I think there's an argument to be had about what the concept of the "Lonely Kamen Rider" really meant. To me, it always simply represented the sorrow of them as tragic heroes (which is also why Rider 1's mask is crying, and why that design element reoccurs so much), and nothing more. You can be surrounded by others and still feel alone.

It's always seemed to me what defined Riders as heroes was their refusal to give up their human hearts, even when their bodies are altered, and being able to live in harmony with others, and get along, and basically everything Ghost was about (!), I think that always kind of walked hand in hand with the whole nature angle, even if it wasn't always emphasized as much.

I loved Amazon so much!! Fourze was my first Rider so it felt very lovely and comfortable; there was a great familiarity about it. One day I gotta talk about how much I love Fourze's HBV and how they saw the most perfect opportunity and took it!


I just also didn't want to judge by Amazon because from what I know, it was extremely different in a lot of ways to other Riders. Amazon's origins lay in nature rather than technology; the enemy is a lot more external than internal; there's a lot more violence that led to it being cancelled earlier; as a character Amazon is a lot simpler and unburdened by complex feelings of betrayal. None of these are fundamentally bad things, it's just that I really don't feel I can fully get a grasp of Showa Rider as a whole based on it!

Not just the HBV!

https://challengerscomics.com/images...urzelegacy.png

I don't know why, but Tomoko saying A-MA-ZON in a shitty homemade Amazon costume is probably in my Top 3 all-time favorite Kamen Rider things.

Oh wow, this is a real eye opener post. Yeah Kamen Rider is about like everything you just said.

Kamen Rider is good yo.

Actually, from what I've heard these are two separate facts that often get mixed up. I believe it's true there were complaints about the level of violence (I think?), but the real reason it got cancelled had much more, if not everything to do with the fact that Kamen Rider was going to be moving to a new television network.

Hopefully someone can provide better details on this than I can, but I'm pretty sure that's the Showa Era trivia equivalent of "Joe Odagiri hates Kuuga!"

Even Showa Riders starting out as "one man fighting against Shocker" doesn't last long! Ichigou has a group of people to help him out at the start bbefore Ichimonji ever shows up, and from there and into the future series there's a strong emphasis on "You may think you fight alone, but there are always other Riders." It's nowhere near a strong as newer series, but it's there.

I got my cyclone riser yesterday!

I actually have something to contribute to this thread! Or at least, I think I do. Maybe it's the wrong spot, but here goes.

So here's the thing, I work in a warehouse, and in this warehouse, we actually have our own IM program on our laptops, kindles, etc incase our radios can't get the communication part of the job done for whatever reason. We even have little profiles where we can display our interests, hobbys, etc. I of course mentioned my love of Toku on mine.

Well a couple days back, I was actually added to a chatroom one of the higher-ups made, specifically, the "Tokusatsu Fan Club" and in the opening line he stated how he made the room for us to not only share our love of the genre and shitpost memes, but have a place for some lighthearted communication in these hectic times.

That's awesome in and of itself, but I didn't realize until today... there's like 30 people in that chatroom. Now granted, that's not a huge number by any means, but it got me thinking "Hey, that's way more than I expected." and it also got me to realize that, slowly but surely, maybe an appreciation for Japanese superheroes is growing here in the West. And I think that's awesome.

Whoa! That is awesome!

Something I've been giving a little thought recently is that whatever non-upgrade form a Rider doesn't use much in their own series; it tends to be their main go-to in later movies almost as a way to 'make up' for it.

For instance, OOO infamously couldn't use Gatakiriba much due to the expensive CGI; it got used only about 3 times. But then in the movies? It of course got featured along with all the other combos in Wonderful and Mega Max; with the former even having Eiji use his duplication power for the final fight gimmick. And then in Heisei Generations Final, it's the only combo he uses aside from Tajador! And in addition, what OOO form does Grand Zi-O summon for his first finisher? That's right! Bunch of green bug boys!

In a similar vein, and one that I realised is a bit odd... Decade Hibiki. Tsukasa used this a grand total of ONE TIME in his entire series -- the very first episode! And then after that, it's 'made up' for -- he uses it against Amazon in All Riders vs. Dai-Shocker; it's one of his chosen Kamen Rides against Captain Marvelous in Super Hero Taisen; against Fifteen in Kamen Rider Taisen; and then against Sougo and Geiz in his Zi-O debut!


Are there any other things like this that come to mind? Where one of the initial power-ups is barely used by the respective Rider if at all in the original series, but then gets used all the time in their post-series appearances?

Off the top of my head, I only recall Gaim Ichigo arms being most prominent when it fought Bujin Gaim in that year's movie war.

Ex-Aid's taisen movie could be seen as offering extra screen time to the Level 3 forms of both Ex-Aid and Lazer too.

I can remember Gekitoisu Robots being heavily featured in GoRiders and CSHT, despite disappearing from the show completely after episode 10 or so, but that's not exactly post series. More accurate might be Gaim Pine Arms, which managed to sneak into SHT GP, the Dr PacMan movie and the final episodes of Zi-O!

I would say Ryugen Kiwi Arms it first debuted in the Sengoku Movie War first but in the actual show it was only in episode 10-11. Pretty much every other apperance by Ryugen except for the Gaim Gaidens have him use Kiwi Arms. Man Gaim has alot of underutlized forms.

This might be a late thought, but I realized that Metal Cluster Hopper's situation is a lot like X-Men's Havok. Both have unstable powers and require a conduit to able to control them properly.

Why is this so amazing? Why do I find it to be amazing?

Those are always great. I know it's been tradition for these commercials to have just three people, but I really wished they could have fit in Jin and Horobi as well.

And surprisinlgly there a second one for Zero-One https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=20WEdD...ature=youtu.be

Hey here's a question I felt like kind of belonged here, what episodes do you feel are the definitive episodes for each kamen rider series?

As a person who has not watched enough kamen rider, I feel like for Ex-aid it's Kiriya's death, Parado's redemption, Hiiro letting go of Saki, and Taiga saying he'll always be Nico's Doctor, and

I'm not sure I could do it for every series I've watched (my memory is terrible, I basically forgot the plot of Agito earlier today and I watched that series a couple months ago) but for Ex-Aid? Episodes 38-40. It's got Brave and Snipe quashing their beef, and Emu "killing" Parado. So many of the themes of the series, about the value of lives over the value of personal happiness, about appreciating what you have instead of regretting what you don't, about the corrosive nature of guilt, it's all in those episodes. Plus, HUGE and unexpected twists, especially for Kamen Rider Die, who was a mere toku infant when he watched those ones.

For Wizard, it's the villain spotlight two-parters: 21 and 22 (Phoenix, ALL-TIME GREAT CLIFFHANGER), 26 and 27 (Medusa, huge arc stuff), and 34 and 35 (Gremlin, just a super-clever ripping yarn). Those are worth watching Wizard for, even if nothing else.

Oh, that's a fun question that can be answered in multiple different ways. My picks would be (spoiler'd just in case):

Black: Shadowmoon's entrance and his complete ownage of Bilgenia; the first time that iconic clicking sound was heard is a defining moment. Battle Hopper's introduction and the whole final battle sequence are also strong contenders.

Kuuga: Godai's first transformation into Red Kuuga. The first episode was already a defining one, particularly given the historical context of long KR hiatus that precedes the show.

Ryuki: the penultimate episode i.e. Shinji's death.

Faiz: story-wise, the one where Takumi's true identity is revealed. Tonal-wise, that absurdly hilarious scene where Kusaka was being a complete asshole to the grievously wounded Kiba.

Blade: Final three episodes, as the heroes realize there's no clean, happy-ending-for-everyone, solution to the Joker dilemma.

Hibiki: unfortunate, but Episode 30 is always going to be the first thing that's come up to every discussion about this series.

Decade: ... eh, I don't know, the series was a jumbled mess. Okay, best moment would be Natsumi transforming into KR Kiva-la and slaying Decade from the movie.

Gaim: the episode where Hase went berserk, it's revealed that Kouta had killed Yuya, and the introduction of New Generation Riders (I think it's all in the same episode? Such a game-changer, in any case).

Build: the reveal of Sento's true identity.

For Hibiki, it's episode 29. A nice, calm, wonderful episode watching the cast hang out together after a well earned victory.

For Drive, it was not Nira's introduction, but his pseudo redemption after 001's death. Because good lord, the things that character does and reveals after that point changes the series.

For Ghost, I think it would be the first time Onari opened his mouth. It really let you know just what you were getting in for.

For Agito, and I know it's strange to say, but when Houjou got caught up in Shouichi's antics that he missed a call to deploy G3. It really showed you just how infectious Shouichi's sincerity and smile were that even the man with the largest stick up his ass couldn't escape him.

For Ex-Aid, I'm thinking probably Dan joining the heroes. It really kind of solidified that the show will always staunchly refuse to let you know what direction things are going in :lol

Fish's thread has really been reminding me which episodes are which, so...

For Kuuga, while I definitely agree with the assertion of Episode 2 being one of them; I would also absolutely put forward Episodes 11 and 12 (Promise/Teacher), Episodes 25/26 (Wandering/Myself), and Episodes 34/35 (Tremble/Emotion), and of course -- Episodes 48/49 (Kuuga/Yusuke).

It's difficult to get into exactly why at the moment, but I imagine some of them are pretty obvious.

I really couldn't say for all the ones I've seen, but for my top 2 it'd be:

Kuuga: Episode 35, which not only is a big turning point for the show as a whole, but also contains the moment I still show people to get them interested in the show. The ones Kurona listed are also valid.

OOO: Episode 1, actually. The moment where the wall falls and everyone is just standing there, staring at Eiji still makes me giggle like an idiot.

I think what really helped Showa Riders regain some popularity while the Heisei Riders were doing their thing on TV during the early 2000s was the manga title Kamen Rider Spirits. I lost track some time later but when I first encounted it, it was AMAZING. The art was beautiful and ZX finally was further fleshed out than that one-shot TV special, at least that is how I remember. Again, I lost track after some time so the details are fuzzy but I still do remember it really made ZX the most badass rider of all time.

You know, I'm a little amazed that (to my limited knowledge) there aren't a steady stream of Kamen Rider manga releases. Here in the US, any moderately successful sci-fi/fantasy/horror TV series can get at least a limited series, if not a raft of spinoffs. I mean, there's a currently-running Blade Runner comic. The idea that a 50-year franchise with dozens of potential characters to flesh out or revisit isn't constantly churning out material... I really don't get it.

Last I checked, Kamen Rider Spirits is still going, plus there's the SIC stuff that's *definitely* still going. Add in the Kuuga reboot manga, the Double sequel manga, a Faiz reboot manga, it's not as if it doesn't exist. It's available, it's just not easily accessable to us Western fans because so little of it gets translated.

I didn't know about the Spirits manga (Showa, a thing I don't truck with), so you're completely right that there's more manga than I was aware of. Thanks!

The other ones, though, they're all one-offs, and most of them are from years ago. It's weird to me that there isn't a steady stream of manga focusing on the current show (seems like a great promotional tool?), or recent/hit seasons. With all of the V-Cinemas and Rider Times and whatnot, it's not like Toei doesn't want to mine those fanbases. And mangas allow for team-ups and continuations you'd never get to see in live-action. Why isn't there a Den-O/Kuuga/Double team-up manga right now?

Like, it's not that the manga don't exist, but I'm used to something like the Doctor Who or Star Wars comics, where it's intensely focused on what's happening right now in the franchise, with plenty of new stories for older corners. It's weird that there isn't (again, from what I've seen on this forum) a Zero-One series running, alongside new volumes of Build, Ex-Aid, Drive, Fourze, etc.

All the manga I mentioned are still running! The Faiz one began last September, afaik. Plus, I always got the feeling Rider is a much more closed off world than most superhero things - it's not like there's a continuing series of adventures or a huge range of cast to go on, most stories are pretty self-contained, with week to week changes probably being hard to keep track of in the comics.

EDIT: Oh, and if you're after weird crossovers, the SIC Manga is where you want to look. The wiki is a little scant on the details, but they have the heroine of Decade become a version of Gaim.

I dropped the Spirits manga years ago mainly because the site I read it on got taken down, but if you can still find it, it's actually a fairly solid read. It's a more modern take on Showa characters and it's actually fairly gripping.

Honestly, the only thing that kept me from going back to it is the fact that it's still going (I think it's 18-19 years old, now), making it hard to know when the end is in sight :lol

Neat! The Wiki is... a little difficult to get info about the manga series, and most of the links I clicked were for stuff from years ago. Sorry to be so off-base on this! I will stop trying to figure this out!

At one point, many people try to have Dark Horse to get Kamen Rider Spirits to be released in North America and nothing happened. I'm pretty sure it will do fine in the US because manga still sells well in North America.