If anything in Geats, perhaps a goth/emo rider. Pastel gothic perhaps?

I like this theory.

I think a vicious female Rider villian might be a nice change of pace. Even Reika at her cruelest carried herself with a level of professional coolness to her (same with Marika!), so why not someone with a more....rawer personality as a villian would be interesting! (Dunno if I'd want Asakura-levels of venom, depends on what kind of work the story is, but someone who revels a bit in the chaos they wreck is a nice first step.)

As for someone on the heroes' side....not sure? The chance of a female main Rider seems as low as always, so why not have our typical rival Rider be a woman?

I kind of wonder if they'll go experimental with the bike again or just go back to a normal bike...if we even get a bike.

Or maybe they'll pull out something new.

I dunno why this consequences thing applies to female Riders specifically cause like. Thouser's not a woman and is infinitely worse. Like. One of the best examples of scumbag characters getting off the hook way too damn easy

I honestly still kinda think that we were robbed of a cool female villain with Aguilera. Her redemption felt a bit flat with me since even though she was the initial villain, we never really saw her doing much evil. I mean she did give orders but we never really see her do much on her own. And the one time she actually tried to do something, she was thwarted by Kagero.

I hope that the next female villain leader we get remains evil through the end rather than have them be redeemed.(last one I remember was Redyue)

Also at female riders, I hope they actually give them spotlight and a character arc that isn't reliant on them being paired with anyone. Sakura was a fine character but I think too much of her arc was spent on Aguilera.

Aguilera was a start. I'm happy for Sakura & Hana to connect.

But yes, we need a REAL main villainess. Whether it's an evil queen/princess/witch/sorceress. That includes some number of main villainesses where are some are redeemed and some aren't.

Yeah, aside from her annoucement to the general public in episode 1 and the attempted poisoning, Aguilera pretty much loses all her "villain" factor by the time Olteca declares himself the real leader and the she was just a figurehead (which in retrospect was likely the writers trying to lampshade this).

There was Azu from 01, her whole thing was manipulating people to "Spread the will of the Ark", although I suppose that would make her more like a lackey finding new masters than a leader in her own right.

Speaking of Azu. I never watched the Zero One movies but did they actually defeat her or is she still running around doing evil things?

Thanks. It'd make sense where KR Geats is coming from.

KR Zaia killed Azu when he revealed his master plans to replace Ark with MetsubouJinrai

Everyone have thoughts on the number of riders? That includes how these will fit into KR Geats

• Secondary Rider: Hopefully not another "Kaixa/Kusaka"
• Tertiary Rider: Someone better than Delta
• Quarter Rider: ?
• Dark Rider: I picture someone like Kiba Yuji/Orga with a horse vibe

How about the villains too? If the main antagonist will be a villainess, wonder if it'd be a queen/princess/witch/sorceress?

Speaking of speculations, anyone got a someone they'd want to step up to the plate for head writer?

Honestly.....I think it's about time Nobuhiro Mouri took the helm for a Rider show? Since it feels like we're never gonna get a fairly lighthearted Rider again in favor for more drama-like stories, so it seems like a good fit. After all, I think his ability as a secondary writer to bulid upon existing simple frameworks/characters to execute some solid ass drama is underrated ngl. Take any of the KR shows he's worked on and i guarantee at least one of the show's strongest moments are from him? I'd say give him a chance!

And ngl? I think Kinoshita has firmly burned me out on the idea of someone with no toku writing credits stepping up to the mantle, at least *some* familarity with writing in the genre (even if it's not Rider!) would be deeply appreciated. Give it another year or two before doing that again.

Inoue.

Semi-jokes aside, my personal wish would be Kobayashi or Riku Sanjou. As impossible the former is. Takebe sounds likely as the next producer. So, in terms of head director, Sakamoto or maybe they should give Kamihoriuchi a shot at it.

Huh, that's a good question. In terms of people that have familiarity with the franchise...

Let's see, we just had Takuro Fukuda and Keiichi Hasegawa for Saber. While Yuya Takahashi and Riku Sanjo did Zero One already. Although I suppose any of them could decide to toss their hat back into the ring.

Yasuko Kobayashi is apparently writing for JJBA Stone Ocean, Inoue is currently DonBrothers right down the hall.

I suppose there's Gen Urobuchi, but I heard he's busy with the RWBY spinoff anime...

Think Junko Komura is willing to come back? Zenkaiger was able to do drama pretty well (imo).

I'm fine with trying someone new the problem with Revice is it either didn't have enough plot to last the entire 45-50 epiosdes or they just simply chose to whatever reason end the more engaging story arcs early in favor of the predictable boring af one

This is a problem for most Rider`s shows. Although in the case of Saber, the situation was just the opposite. Personally, I think that Kinoshita just ran out of steam (still the first time in the toku) and is more interested in the spin-off about Sakura and Aguilera or his other projects.

I'd be happy with a new writer since it is always fun to see someone new take a shot at writing tokusatsu, even if the results can be a bit messy. Personally, I have been obsessed with the idea of a tokusatsu written by Akifumi Kaneko for years, but that's probably just a pipe dream!

As far as previous writers go, I have to admit that I think a lot of the old standbys like Sanjo and Kobayashi have already had too many times they were head writers and I'd prefer someone I've seen as head writer less than 3 times. I'd be interested in seeing Yuya Takahashi or Shogo Muto come back!

Nailed one of my problems with Kinoshita directly on the head, everything gets solved a little too soon imo and it's led to the show spinning its wheels alot because there's no leads to go off of.....I'd bet his stories would feel more solid in a show half or even a quarter as long as your typical Rider show.

Muto coming back would certainly be interesting, I think. I do agree anyone who's at least been head writer twice would be a little dull(Tsuyoshi Kida would be my pick if i had to pull from that pool though, lol), which is why my picks involved a secondary writer. I feel like a lot of them are forgotten when discussing writing in tokukatsu, when some of these guys shaped the show's image a bit more than you realize! (Keiichi Hasegawa, for example, wrote about 20 episodes for both Saber and W, that's a little less than half of those shows?!)

Does anyone have thoughts on how many riders there'll be in Geats? Surely we could introduce a new rider based on a horse like Kiba Yuji.

As for a female rider... you all picture someone like a mix of Asakura/Ouja & Juri Han? Even Harley Quinn/Punchline?

We better have a redeeming Kusaka-type rider who won't be such a prejudice-racist jerk.

As for the protagonist - Geats, will the rumors of him being like Tendou be true?

I do love the deep lore of Saber. However, I think the reason why the show struggled to fit everything was due to the producer's decision to put Fukuda in charge of spin-off projects, leaving Hasegawa to take the wheel for most of its run.

Cheerful genki, please! I'm still disappointed that Mei never got her chance.

Goth girl works as well!

It's pretty ridiculous that they made a really cool unique probably expensive hoverbike, only for Revi to never use it again after its debut!

I totally agree! I mean, he recently wrote that awesome and emotional Hiromi arc of Revice and I know he wrote some of my favorite episodes of Ghost. If Mouri can write high quality stories with an existing world and characters, imagine what he could do with his own! It's been 5 years since Kyuranger, a pretty decent show, so I think it's time he returned to the role of head writer and show us how he's improved even more.

I know how that feels. During the Revice pre-discussion, I also suggested giving the opportunity to a new writer, citing how Muto was new when he wrote Build. So, now we got Kinoshita, who started out okay but kind of lost it in the middle. But that's the risk we run with new writers. Maybe we'll be lucky and get another Muto, or maybe we'll get another Kinoshita. Who knows? So yeah, I'd feel a lot more comfortable if Geats was written by someone I already know and trust. They've already brought back Fukuda and Takahashi, so I think Muto deserves another turn!

I joked about Inoue being the writer for Donbrothers. And look what happened!

I personally think RT destroyed Oum's creation a long time ago, so this does not surprise me.

She does have some Rider-adjacent experience with Bima-X, so I'd love to see her bring her talent for drama to the franchise!

So you think that maybe Kinoshita is actually just a himedanshi and doesn't care much about writing Tokusatsu? Hmm, I guess that would explain why so many other characters are constantly out of focus.

Oh, better not! I know there are fans of this type, but I am not one of them. So maybe at least Thsukasa, not Tendou.

Do you mean how many Riders will be shown upon inital the press conference reveal and whatnot, or the final count? It's much more interesting to think about the former of course, considering how it hints at the show's focus. Looking back in previous years:

Revice: Only ReVice shown (I'm not sure where'd I'd place their importance now, but yeah for the first chunk of the show the two's dynamic is the main focus. Revice has had a *slightly* slower release of Riders ngl and for a while had only 4 active Riders, which feels wild? This is me reaching into hella speculation territory but I'd wager depsite all the themes of family and whatnot we'll somehow snap back around into the two's parntership being the central focus in the last 4 episodes or smthn looool)

Saber: Immediately dumped 6 Riders on our asses, with our main trio front and center (Show ended with roughly 11 Riders, but we all know how rarely someone from the main trio actually got something meaty in that story. Calbiur's shilloutee overlooking the 5 not only solidifies him as villian of the first arc, but how the secret that lead Hayato/Daichi to take up Kurayami is a shadow over the Sword of Logos's activites)

Zero-One: The inital MJBR duo, AIMS duo, and 01 (more or less represents all factions of the story, Aruto and Horobi take up *alot* of space to highlight how clear the "endgame has these two fight because Reasons" idea they had from the start, Valkyrie is the smallest Rider on it because.......yknow.)

I could go on, but you get the point. I'd say it's a pretty easy guess to say we'll have at least a trio of Riders (not counting Rider-adjacent baddies/true Dark Riders) by the first 6 episodes, so having them all on the cover feels like a safe bet. Revice is an exception because of the demon gimmick, of course.

As for what kinds of Riders they would be.......Ngl, gimme a protagonist with a little more fire: a real hothead with a heart of gold, or an asshole who butts heads with everyone, or even a total eccentric......I've felt very lukewarm on the Reiwa protagonists, purely because they're all simple, well-meaning guys? That isn't an crime, but it sure gets dull/limiting in terms of what kind of stories they can do with these heroes?

To be fair, Japan's laws on custom bikes have changed since the days of old, heavily hampering the actual Rider part of the series for quite a while now

I thought that only applied to custom bikes driving on the road? At this point, I wouldn't even mind if they make the bike CGI. Worked for Don Momotarou's Enya Rideon and a CGI bike is better than no bike.

I would like to make a small correction though, Revi did use it more than once in the show, I guess I was exaggerating.

Just PLEASE not a Comedic based MC the reason I could never get into Zero One was because I didn't want to hear "ArUtO jA nAi" every 5 seconds(I'm told Zero One is a show with good ideas bogged down by pacing issues and wasting some characters which some of it was not entirely their fault(See COVID))

Slightly object, because

1) Aruto's whole gimmick is that he's written to be intentionally unfunny, hence the failed comedian schtick. (Vice is also this......to a certain extent? At least for that first part where's hes supposed to be this annoying, aggravating demon? I've never found any of Vice's gags funny even after his "redemption" so idk what theyre doing there....)

2) Comedic Main Riders are fun! My Shouichi was the designated "Rider who makes weird puns/jokes" decades before Zero-One, and protags that cause silly or stupid scenarios by nature of who they are (Emu's clumsiness, Shotaro's half-bakedness, Ryotaro's bad luck, etc) are pretty good too!

I will slightly agree that a designated hyper comic relief character like Vice is something I'm unsure I want to see again so soon? Something about Kimura's delivery always sounding like I'm supposed to take it as a joke has caused certain parts of Revice that're supposed to be emotional to fall flat completely for me...Just spread the comedy throughtout the cast.

About Geats, I personally really want Geats is a charismatic protagonist similar to Wizard while the Secondary Rider is a funny person just like Gattack.

I hate the 01 isn't funny. A shame COVID went into the dust of it....

And true we need someone serious and yet a bit funny but dramatic & charismatic in some way.

I do like someone similar to Gatack and maybe later like Cross-Z.

And if we ever have two female riders, we'll need one who's a heroine and one who'll go from villainess to anti-villainess. Think of the villainess rider like Ouja, Juri Han & Harley Quinn/Punchline altogether.

...You know, I think we are all overdue for another Kagami-esque character. I frickin' love Kabuto and Kagami as the only sane man in that sea of chaos was always incredibly entertaining. I'd love to see a similar character as the de facto main Rider. I know you can make a strong argument that Gatack IS the main Rider of Kabuto, but you know what I mean!

Kagami is the sane man in Kabuto? Hardly :lol
His head is a little closer to the ground, but he's just as involved in the insanity.

That said, another Kagami esque character would be nice. We had something similar with Ryuga in Build, but it didn't feel quite right.

IMO The BIGGEST Mistakes Revice made were killing THE ONLY engaging villain they had off halfway through while also having the other potentially engaging villain take a backseat to the most boring villains the franchise has had since Ghost. I feel like Aguelia as she is, is fine (Although I Do wish they didn't have to literally warp how the show works just so she can be redeemed) also I'd personally would've kept Hiromi dead after 21. Oh and make everyone f--king IDIOTS so Akeshi and Giff can be the main villains(Revice is irrc like Saber what it does right it does VERY Well what it does wrong Holy S--t does it f--k it up it's just instead of stumblng out of the gate it waits a little before I don't want to say s--ting itself because it's not AWFUL just boring)

Actually, kinda disagree that Revice waited to show its true colors.
It did from the start, just in its MoTW plots. All of them are rough and have at least one aspect that torpedos them into disappointing.
It was a good indicator that the show would probably be incapable of properly resolving anything if they stumbled at the basics. And to me, at least, that hunch turned out to be more true than I could have ever imagined.

Yeah I more or less agree with this sentiment. For me Revice had a lot of warning signs from the start, and while there was stuff I was interested in narratively, almost every MotW story had some element that just sort of irked me, and a lot of character stuff felt weirdly handled as it went on imo

I stopped watching Revice around episode 26 or so, making it the second rider series I've just stopped watching part way through (the only other was Zi-O which I do intend to go back to eventually bc I didn't hate it)...

And at this point idk if I'm ever going back to finish Revice... Maybe someday I will just for the sake of completionism, but what I've been hearing from people about what it's done since I dropped it does not give me any desire to return to it honestly

I dropped the show at a similar time as you and just caught up again today.

It was a simultaneously infuriatingly frustrating and painfully dull experience. I would not begrudge anyone who wouldn't want to finish it.

Not quite the lowest point for me, but Olteca's death was definitely the turning point where I noticed the quality started to decline very suddenly. Ikki's lines in his debut as Kamen Rider Revice somehow manage to be even more absurd than that suit. "[x], the things you've done are unforgivable" is quoted out of context from Ghost Mugen Damashii's climactic fight against Adel's Ganmaizer form, but the lack of personal feelings between Ikki and Olteca makes it sound empty. "We're not devils, we're Revice" makes as much sense as Shoutarou saying "We're not detectives, we're Double". Ikki and Vice are definitely devils, it's literally in the name of their theme song! Honestly, I couldn't take that fight seriously and I feel like Olteca still had a lot more to give, compared to Akaishi who's just an OP plot device that makes creepy expressions.

The following episode was even a lame filler recap, which opens with Sakura spending like a whole minute giving a long exposition about Hiromi to the devil plushie that literally lives in her head and therefore already knows everything she's saying! It's even longer than Akaishi's eulogy to Olteca. Not the kind of writing that inspires much confidence. Then we got the controversial Aguilera redemption arc and I was just totally out of motivation after that.

Completionism, sunken cost fallacy and Hiromi is pretty much the only reason why I'm considering going back to Revice. If I'd tired of it in the first quarter, maybe I would've just quit, but it had just enough qualities to keep me watching. Even I have my limit though, there's one Sentai in the late Heisei Era that I know I'm probably never going to finish and I've kind of come to terms with that.

There are other shows I've put on hiatus before, like Kiva, Double, OOO, Gobusters, Kyuranger and LupinPatren. And I'm glad I came back, cause I ended up liking them, mostly. Man, some of those seasons I don't even remember what made me stop watching in the first place. Maybe I just got burned out a few times. However, I don't know how Revice will be able to turn me around at this point.

Thanks, I don't begrudge you either. While I feel like I got a little more enjoyment out of it than you did and I don't always agree with your criticisms and nitpicks.... Maybe your intuition about this show was pretty reliable in the end.

Fair, media is an incredibly subjective experience. What works for one, does not for others, and so on. And given Revice is currently on a good way to least favorite Rider show, the chances you enjoyed it more than I did is pretty high. :lol

As for intuition, I just kinda figured out what works for me in a show and notice early signs of that. It mostly works, but I can be pretty wrong as well. For example, in Ghost, disliking the first arc a lot, rest of the show being pretty enjoyable and ending with an ok for me, Builds stellar first arc was one I considered the best in the franchise before the show quickly turned into a meh for me and probably the one most egregious, ZI-O's first 6 episodes made me expect a complete trainwreck and miserable year, only to end up as my sixth favorite Rider show ^^

Surprised to see Revice viewed so badly here. In the social media circles I'm in, it's thought of pretty highly. I'm personally loving it, feel like it's the best season since Build

I've also learned to listen more to my intuition in the years since I first started watching Rider. With a consistently mediocre season, at least I know what I'm getting, it's not offensively bad or anything that actively repels me. But a show like Revice, that hooks me with its story and then screws up so badly with the execution halfway through, it hurts even more. TFW you know a show has potential, but it fails to live up to it at every opportunity. Honestly, Revice is set to become my least favorite as well.

Compared to my current least favorite, Gaim, which had a slow-paced first 9 episodes and a final arc I found terrible, I can at least say the show handled a lot of the dramatic scenes with good execution, especially the episodes written by Mouri. It's a show that I can still find a fair amount of redeeming factors to defend and praise. I'm having significantly more trouble doing the same with Revice, since pretty much everything I think it did right has gradually become undone.

Same, squandered potential is poison for a show and can kill any enjoyment you might have had with the hopes it will pay off. It prays on your goodwill and leaves nothing behind in a way. Maybe a bit overdramatic, but at least to me, that's how shows like these make me feel.

I'd agree that wasted potential is often worse than smth that was bad to fine the whole time. If something is bad or just meh from the start then you at least won't be disappointed

Revice is a show that I can't help but feel like should have had a different writer (Kinoshita certainly isn't talentless but I think he lacks experience with screenwriting... and, just personally, I just don't think his style gels with me at all really). I really do like a lot of the suits, and the general ideas of the show on a conceptually level, but I think the execution is just... baffling to me to be totally honest.

When we first saw the suits I was sort of hoping we'd get Muto again... But honestly, for whatever reason now I wonder if maybe Mouri would have been a good choice for this series? He's been working on the franchise for such a long time I feel like he could have delivered an anniversary show that really captured the spirit of Kamen Rider, and delivered some real emotional moments (which for me tends to be what I associate Mouri with)

How it is now though Revice is probably my least favourite rider that I've seen anways, there's some older shows I still need to get around to, but since it's the only Rider show I've given up on since I started watching the franchise where the sole reason I stopped was just that I was actively having a bad time watching it... it seems likely to stay as my least favourite lol

You know with the toy info on how much items are in SG Sets and stuff, I'm really hoping we end up going back to non-electronic gimmick items.

We've been on a long streak since Zi-O and you know, it'd be nice to get some fun plastic only gimmicks again like the Fullbottles or Eyecons.