Making her first time as a rider in a film was beyond the worst thing to do and on top of that making it the "Canon" way she becomes it

so when people hear speak about "I wish I could transform" would and could make people so confuse

I just hope they finished up well (talking past tense because they probably wrapped up actual production by now). I'm ready for junk food sugar rush rider. My body is ready for Stay Puft Guyver. :lolol

From what I've seen on the production blogs, apparently they filmed the movie between the two most recent episodes and the cast was pretty pumped after that.

So I'd imagine aside from any minor issues they likely finished things off well.

I understand that, but the problem here is that there's really been no story progression at all for Rinne for several episodes. She's not being given much to do right now in the plot besides being, for lack of a better term, a meat shield.

And this is a big problem with these recent Rider shows; we have these side characters whose plot threads just don't go anywhere for long stretches because they have to be juggled with over a dozen other characters while also making sure the actual protagonist gets the largest chunk of the story.

God i hope Gavv does better in terms of forms

my only gripe so far with is the side form weapons look a bit to foam like and flat be nice if they were more 3d like and not flat 2d

*lets out sigh of relief* Now where are those marshmallows.

It has a titular Kamen Rider who becomes a gummy monster, cosplays Clint Eastwood with chocolate, can cut monsters with porato chips, cosplays Maximum Gamer with candy, and can become Stay Puft Guyver. Story can suck all it wants I will love it to death. :lolol

it also doesn't help we are giving two very small side chars two part stories

and we gave legend a 4 parter when those combine six eps could of gone to giving Rinne and Spanner new forms and some love

Like come on and Hotro has the power to INFUSE CARDS WITH A BOOST

why the fuck doesn't he say "RINNE AND SPANNER TOSS ME YOUR CARDS!"


Then, it proceeds to boost them into Rainbow powered cards thus giving them a edge. This is like the whole god damn time jacker problem all over again

I just hope Gavv doesn't get toss every single form under the sun, a bit disappointed with the writer, but at least she knows how to write chars

I really couldn't care less about forms, I just want to see better writing. But the latter can't happen as long as Bandai rules over this series with an iron fist. You can cut half the Riders and forms out of the past four seasons of Kamen Rider, including Gotchard, and you would end up with better shows every time.

Yeah its why i wish back for stuff like kamen rider double I miss those good fun seasons they weren't just pure kid shows

I don't think forms and upgrades need to be the be all and end all of characters but it would kind of stand out if Majade is the first Secondary to not get a proper Final Form in the main series.

that's a bad mindset

with the fact everyone else is getting strong that means she stays weak

Remember that people didn't know about Kamen Rider Tsukuyomi until the preview for the finale. It's possible that Majade's Final Form could debut in the finale.

Valvarad on the other hand, yeah, that's probably going to be V-Cinema like Buffa Plosion Rage.

People can be hypocrites. I mentioned before that they want Gotchard to be more like Majade and Majade to be more like Gotchard, so there's no way to satisfy them. They'll always complain about something. Feels like they forget the play appeal of the Tokusatsu genre and now they act entitled when they don't get exactly what they want, even though they've outgrown the target demographic and Toei doesn't owe them.

Even I can't defend the narrative choice to have a chemical accident leave Rinne absent for 2 whole episodes, when she's literally the second protagonist. If they wanted Majade out of the picture, then she could just leave her ring behind for charging, but removing Rinne is a waste of potential for a lot of interactions in Kongo Laboratories. At least she's not the only Secondary Rider who can't henshin whenever she wants, since G3-X exists. There was also a long time where Evil was absent after Live "killed" him.

Get Ready For The Next Battle

You mean "could have" or "could've". It hurts your credibility when you can't even get the grammar right.

New forms aren't the only way to get stronger. Remember from the Hyper Battle that Rinne started studying martial arts books in preparation for her debut as Majade in the show. She doesn't only rely on alchemy, she hones her physical strength as well.

True. Should that happen Majede does seem like the likely candidate.

I mean, I think she deserves more than just MoonCerberus. It's like if Vulcan only got Punching Kong.
I think Rinne's actress was spotted in a cast photo with a new ring people are speculating is for the Final Form (GaiaDragon)

if i remember correctly the toyline for spanner the toys that were released for him were labeled as villain. what happened with spanner was he was supposed to be a villain for most of the series that's why he's not around for much of the story since they probably had to scrap and rewrite his character as a hero

it's the same with rinnie since she wasnt supposed to be a rider and it was an add in and that's why she doesnt transform in some of episodes since she was supposed to be written as a side character and not a rider.

originally what i had heard that it was supposed to be focused just on houtaro aka kouga being the lone hero and i think they had to change everything that had to do with the poor toy sales in geats and toei/bandai probably stepped in and told the writers to change the script around which isnt easy to do especially when it comes to filming new suits and changing characters. that has to be frustrating for the writers.

Citation needed, this is the first time I have ever seen anything like that for Gotchard.

This. I can't agree more. Bandai's aggressive toyetic push severely impacts the quality of the story. It seems like they prioritize short-term profits over long-term profits.

Maybe the age of good writing in Kamen Rider is already over.

Yeah, I've also heard those rumors. I think the cause is the basic script being revised several times. If true, then it confirms my suspicion I've mentioned several times in weekly episode threads about Gotchard having an identity crisis. To me, Gotchard feels like a story in quite a deep self-doubt, haha. It feels like there's something holding it back from realizing its true potential, which is huge.

I've also thought that Rinne was initially never planned to be a Rider. My suspicion arose when her debut in the Gotchard-Geats collab film felt very forced and also violated the film's internal logic. Basically, the film violated one of its own rules for the sake of making Rinne henshin into KR Majade. Another member in this forum mentioned that Rinne is badly written as a Rider, and I heartily concur with that statement.

There's a standard (or perhaps the standard) that has been established in the Kamen Rider franchise since the very first entry. A heroine, in this franchise, is almost always (if not always) a young woman who is a peer of the protagonists, who exposes her skin to the risks and dangers of the battlefield, yet is able to stand strong and maintain her courage, provides emotional support to the protagonists, and nurtures the bonds between them. Heroines are often the ones who mediate and soften the interpersonal conflicts and misunderstandings between the protagonists, and sometimes even act as diplomatic representations of the protagonists' side. The strength and courage of the heroines don't come from muscles nor power, but from their nurturing nature. Strength and courage is often not about how much power that you have, but about how long you stand the pressure, get beaten down, and stand back up, no matter how much more powerful the adversaries are. This philosophy of "feminine/gentle strength" was even elegantly elaborated in several scenes and dialogue lines in KR Gaim. Damn you Urobuchi! Haha.

The standard trope of heroines in KR franchise is basically the personification of the other side of strength, as stated by Rocky Balboa in the eponymous 2006 film:
"You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard you hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward; how much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!"

Can a heroine also be a Rider? Of course! I believe that it can be done, but it would be a very very very difficult task of simultaneously fulfilling the enormous roles of the heroine and the secondary Rider. It would require a very careful planning, something I haven't seen in Gotchard.

Gotchard's producers & writers thought that they could fuse 2 important characters into 1, and the resulting character has very few of the properties of those characters. They're attempting to stone 2 birds at once, and end up missing both.

I judge her by the standard that has been established in the Kamen Rider franchise since the very first entry. I've elaborated it in my reply to ZeroWolf above.

Soooooooooo... If Rinne is the second protagonist in Gotchard, not the heroine, then who is the heroine? Who is fulfilling that important role? Renge? She's barely had any impact in the story. Houtarou's mom? She's often absent from the story, and more suited to be a parental figure, not a heroine. Clotho? Lachesis? Atropos? No way they're the heroines. Hijiri? She's only appeared in 4 episodes, although she would make a fine heroine if the hero/main character is Kajiki, haha.

If Rinne is not the heroine, then who? Who? Please enlighten me on this one. This is one of the reasons why I've concluded that Gotchard's story is so hollow, vapid, and lethargic. This is one of the reasons why I've concluded that Gotchard is having an identity crisis. It can't even decide who the heroine is! Let that sink in.

I've never had any problem whatsoever with Rinne's actor's performances. She's a novice actor, and performs like a novice actor does. It's already within my expectation. I concur with your statement that Rinne's actor showcases more range in the Class 3G spin-off. Acting performance has rarely been a problem in this franchise. The problem is not the actor's performances, but the writing.

I've also never had any problem with a secondary Rider having only 2 forms, or rather, 2 base forms in KR Majade's case. KR Ixa, KR Accel, KR Birth, KR Meteor, KR Beast, KR Baron (excluding his kaijin form), KR Mach (excluding the Chaser Mach and Mach Chaser forms) also had 2 forms.

And what do you mean by Houtarou being a bad heroine? Houtarou is the hero, not heroine. Like I've mentioned above, the problems with Rinne's character stem from the fact that this story can't even decide who the heroine is. The problems in Gotchard's writing are the results of some serious production problems happening behind the scene. Sooner or later, what's happening behind the scene will eventually make its way into the screen.

Rinne is being wasted in this story, because the story itself is also being wasted. Gotchard's story has sooooooo much potential, perhaps even the most amount of potential in this franchise so far. It's really unfortunate that it has become like this.

I concur with your statement that some serious problems happening behind the scene creep into the story. A customer can often intuitively sense that there's a problem in the kitchen when his order hasn't been delivered in 30 minutes. You nailed it when you said that a change in theme song often signals a major overhaul in creative direction. I interned in several construction projects during university, and Gotchard reminds me of the projects where the clients demanded the architects and contractors to change their plans close to groundbreaking day, and even during construction. Those projects stalled for weeks and months. To me, Gotchard smells like a poorly planned project that is stalling due to too much "improvisation" during construction.

Seems there is a familiar face showing up in this years' movie...

So what you're saying is franchises can't change or be experimental?

But also this and all of your writing thus far has just given me one point of view of this entire situation. You have a vision of what Kamen Rider should be in your head and anything that strays from that vision is "bad writing". Just say that a Rider series isn't for you and just move on at this point.

That's also not getting into how just... terrible this statement reads at all. And your attempt at elaborating still does not make this read any better btw.

You're going to refute this point btw, and tell me I'm wrong. I really don't care tbh. But I know what I see because I see the same in a lot of Rider fans. And I'm just putting this out here for anyone who comes across it to see. Because it's a damn problem in this fandom that needs to be addressed and it's tiring to see people try and promote their personal distaste for a series as objective criticism. A rigidness of people unwilling to realize that times are changing and that things will be different than what they originally saw.

Well, if we look at the scene when Haruto stands up to pseudo-Eternal, who?s the person that gives him the final shove to fight on? Whose words get the most emphasis at that moment?

There?s your answer.:lolol

Finally! Gotchard is now officially a crossover/anniversary series. Congratulations!
https://i.imgur.com/oaOob53.gif

When and where did I say or imply that a franchise can't change nor be experimental?:confused: Of course they can change and be experimental. My point is not about changing nor not changing something per se. My point is about how those changes fit the already established standards. I even stated in my previous comment that a heroine-Rider hybrid character can be done, albeit very very very difficult since it will have to fill 2 important roles at once.

Everything has its own established standards/aspects. Some of those aspects can be changed, and some can't be changed due to being fundamental. Some change is good, and some is bad. If I want to change a franchise merely for the sake of changing it, then I should replace Kamen Rider's main character with a young woman, and replace Precure's main characters with boys, effectively rebranding the franchise as Handsome Cure. They're changes, right? They're "innovative", right? Maybe someday it will happen when humanity decide that left is right and right is left.

Haruto? You mean Houtarou? Unless you refer to Houtarou as Haruto due to Gotchard being as vapid as Wizard was, haha.

Yes, you could be right. Kajiki is Houtarou's heroine, and Hijiri is Kajiki's heroine. It's a fractal multiplication of heroines! Haha.

Kajiki's face when he finally receives the epiphany that he's actually the heroine in this story:
https://i.imgur.com/a2y4HDc.jpg

Interesting that he's using the Vanilla DecaDriver (probably updated with new sounds so they can sell it)

I assume this also ties into those scans that show Legend's rider cards taking on the Decade formating

Its not people distaste with kamen rider, Reiwa has been super lackluster and tries to pander to much to the kids

Kamen rider even very early was more of a pre teen to teen type of show with Garo being the adult focus season

Saber was bad, Revice was partly bad cause of the rewriting

Gotachard is just a mess of a season

Alchemy isn't alchemy the whole friendship angle of gotachard is vapid and weak

Compare it to Fourze which is about space and friendship. That show was good

Rinne is by far THE WORST SECONDRY RIDER her story is only link by the fact her father made the driver, her debut as a kamen rider is lock to a film she is gone for a few eps

And most likely her final form that might appear is going to be a retool of wind for someone who has been a alchemist longer you think she be using that alchmey like a pro in combat but doesn't

Compare to kamen rider Jeane who is a third rider and is just great, hell compare her to Rinne she feels more like a secondary rider

On top of that alchemy isn't alchemy, but rather its now friendship and the fact Gotachard form is rainbow WHICH MAKES NO SENSE in every aspect of the show

Like seriously

Zero two- Apex of tech
Saber Xcross-Union of all swordsman

Ulitmate revi/Vice- The apex of teamwork between demon and human

Geats X-The final step to god hood


Gotachard rainbow-Friendship

I get it you can love it and we all can agree Gotachard is nothing, but toy sales this season since I read Geats didn't do so well. Most likely its why I hate the season


but seriously I want stuff like Fourze,gaim W blade ex aid ooos

Those are the type of shows I like and those seem to be the most like seasons for very good reason. Gotachard wont have that staying power like those seasons do

You can say all you want i complain but my criticism is very much true and shows that Rewia just hasn't been a good overall era so far its been just boring and the fact they are hammering toy sales more and more shows its not story first its nothing but a souless toy sales era

So what you're saying is that you expected Gotchard to be one thing by honing into one part of the base synopsis and then it was something else and you didn't like it, got it. :thumb:

Alchemy is the main part of the series, but isn't even used

it was used like three times so far, hell the so called alchemy school isn't even fully explore just this small ass room

Friendship angle and you CLEARLY DIDNT READ

Gotachard friendship angle is so fucking weak, Hotoro wants to be friends with all the chemmies, but how they do is he talks to them once and after that FRIENDSHIP

While in Fourze the friendship is explore through eps the secondary chars got two eps per person to explore them fully

Hell even explore you cant become friends with everyone

The friendship part of Gotachard is souless

Kamen Rider has almost always been a show for kids under 10. The early Heisei series (Kuuga through Kabuto) are the outlier, not the norm.

Also, it is impossible for Majade to be the worst secondary Rider in a franchise where DiEnd or Beast exist.

Hey everyone, I know that this is the rumor page but I didn't know where else to post it. Today my best friend got me a box of phase two Chemy cards. However, I now have run out of card pages for my binder. I've been using some card sleeve pages I bought for the megaforce cards to hold the chemy cards but I've ran out, I don't know the exact listing that I bought for the megaforce cards but I was wondering what y'all use to hold your chemy cards and if any of y'all could send me an amazon link to them.

(Also in case anyone cares, for my bday I also got a legend driver, a Blazar brace as well as the first 2 Stone sets and 4 ultra vinyls)

Your original post literally said (paraphrasing) “Women should not be Riders”. That is the very point you were being called out for, considering the idea of female Riders in prominent roles is very experimental for a show aimed at the boys demographic.

Dude, you literally admitted you stopped watching after 4 episodes. You have no right to actually pass any kind of fair judgement on ANY aspect of the show. Especially since the “points” you make emphasise that you weren’t even paying attention to those episodes.

Here comes Androzani84, the member who has the best reading comprehension skill in this forum. :V

Which one of my posts that you paraphrased and referred to as my original post? Is it this one in KR Gavv's thread? If yes, then I have a bad news for you: Your paraphrase is logically faulty.

I never said nor implied that "women should not be Riders". Of course women can be Riders. I have no problem with women being Riders. What I said was: "Let a heroine be a heroine, not a Rider. A Rider heroine = A bad heroine." My point of criticism was: "A heroine should be a heroine, not having a dual role as a Rider, let alone the secondary Rider", not "women should not be Riders." I even said in this post that a heroine can also be a Rider, but it will be a very very very difficult task to do because it has to simultaneously fulfill the enormous roles of the heroine and the secondary Rider. If you think that the statement "a heroine should be a heroine, not a Rider" = "women should not be Riders", then, once again, congratulations for having the best reading comprehension skill in this forum. :V

Don't paraphrase my statement when you can simply quote it. It's worse when your paraphrase is logically faulty because it makes your paraphrase look like a straw man argument against me. Oh, and please use the word "literally" correctly because I never even said nor implied that "women should not be Riders".

My reaction after reading your post:
https://i.imgur.com/rU7gd3c.jpg

that's bluntly false

everything from showas to Heisei has been clearly for teens the stories the coming of age

hell AMAZON WASNT FOR KIDS Black wasn't design for kids. Kamen rider was never design for kids of 10 and under it was clearly design for kids of 11 to 16 or so

super sentai even had some more adult like seasons, but it was design mainly for kids

if you think its been design only for kids of 10 and under then you clearly didn't watch showa nor did you watch past kabuto

Bruh.

I can't tell if you're in denial, or what, but I'm just gonna break it to you; Rider is aimed at kids in that exact age range.

Yeah, it can have darker stories and the like, but at its core, it's a kids show. Dark story elements aren't unheard of in kids media. And coming of age is in, like every Disney movie ever and more kids cartoons than I'd care to list off here.

You also can't compare late Heisei/Reiwa Rider to the Showa era; Rider started half a century ago and sensibilities and what people thought appropriate in kids media has changed a lot. Here in the west, these sensibilities have changed a lot as well.
Hell, by your logic, Sentai is also not aimed at kids because of some of the stuff they got away with during the Showa era.

Furthermore, Kamen Rider, like many other kids shows, is a glorified toy commercial now. Do you think it's just coincidental that they have kids in some of their commercials? Or have you convinced yourself that "Oh the toys are for little kids, but the show is definitely teens and up"? Because... yeah, no.

I'm not denying that Rider doesn't have appeal for older age demographics - after all, we're here - but Rider is a kids show.

• Mako and Chieko are mostly just comedic.
• Sakurako mostly translated Unidentified Lifeform texts.
• Hina's strength literally also comes from muscles and power.
• Akari mostly did science, while Onari was the emotional support.
• Tsukuyomi was paranoid about Sougo betraying her.
• Sakura isn't nurturing at all.

Maybe you could say they're all "bad" heroines except for Hina who happens to fit the nurturing description, but the point is that the Showa Era mould isn't necessarily applicable to modern heroines. Personally, I like the first 4 in the above list, as they still contributed to the hero's success through other means and Hina is maybe one of the best candidates to be both a heroine and a Rider.

The show where the heroine becomes a living trophy for 2 Riders to fight over.... Hmm, not exactly what I'd call elegant. I think Mesnick would have more to say on this matter.

Officially, nobody. Does Kamen Rider Gotchard need a heroine? If emotional support is what you value in a heroine, then Houtarou already has over 100 friends he can get that from. A heroine would just be redundant here. Call Flayrose the heroine if you want, it doesn't matter. Alternatively, it's easier to think that Houtarou and Rinne are each other's heroine, since they fulfill both functions of providing and receiving.

Depends on how you define forms. IXA had Save Mode in 1986, but then it became obsolete to Burst Mode. Birth is a weird one, since all his changes are attachments. Beast has 6 forms if you count his Mantles. Balon has Banana, Mango and Lemon Energy Arms, although the last one was apparently added due to popularity. Why would you exclude Chaser Mach, when it's basically his Final Form?

Hell yeah, the OG DecaDriver is back! :D

Agreed. It's basically gatekeeping, like, "a true Primary Rider wouldn't do this", or, "a true heroine must do this". Each year, KR shows us a new story with new characters, so of course they have to function a little differently.

A female Secondary Rider isn't breaking fundamentals though, especially since Rinne isn't a heroine. Secondary Riders weren't even a thing until 2001, so the concept can be experimented with depending on what the narrative requires of them. Honestly, while the reveal of Majade was surprising, Amelia becoming a Red Ranger and leader was the most surprising.

Jeanne's focus was forced by Kinoshita as revenge for Toei denying him a female Primary Rider. She's also a pretentious edgy teenager, so I can totally understand why she appeals to you. No offense.

Rainbows don't make sense? What do you think the "Niji" in Nijigon means?

Criticism is subjective.

Or Live.

Sh fucking really, FUCKING REALLY, you going off and make a back handed low blow fucking statement as if an edgy teenager appeals to me

Also you don't understand what a EDGY teenager is Kirto is edgy solo leveling protag is edgy


Sakura Igarashi ISNT FUCKING EDGY now kamen rider live/evil HES EDGY


Sakura Igarashi is a tomboy, shes outgoing, energetic can have her moments of weakness shes not fucking edgy

You're always talking about how KR should be for teens and getting frustrated that Gotchard appeals too much to kids, so yeah, you give the impression that you enjoy the edge.

Live is stupid and obsessed with doing everything the "right" way, but he's not edgy. I mean, he wears white and has an angel motif, where is the edge?

Evil is definitely edgy, but he's a devil and he owns it. He's not pretentious like Sakura, a human who cries about not being invincible.

I'm still convinced at this point that Inoue just sublets at Toei studios.

your tossing words into my month I have said a number of times kamen rider was gauge more to preten to teen not just teens and I have said only the newer seasons have been more to kids

Also its kinda why overall they toss more toys as of late. Cause they use to do a story first toys second now its toys first story second

So how about you think and god damn read

Also Live was edgy he had a whole edgy arc about IM MOST WORK FOR THE POWERFUL DEMON TO SAVE THE WORLD

That shit was edgy

A thought I had after I heard DAIGO is Daybreak was this must've been the same sentiment that people felt back in the 80s when they heard the news that Michael Keaton will be Batman 89. :lolol
Because having seen DAIGO since the 2000s I remember him more as a comedic personality on tv except for when he goes badass mode as a singer.

Heroine simply only means the female term for hero. If you're a heroic individual and a female, then you're a heroine. If you're a heroic individual and transform into a Rider, then you fit both not that you can only be one or the other (and typically heroic individual is what it takes to be a Rider). Houtaro isn't a heroine, because he's a male, thus he's a hero. Emotional support or mediating conflicts and misunderstandings are just another way to save the day alongside defeating bad guys, what matters is you do good not that you have to do things in certain way to be a hero/heroine (gender based).

I'm getting sick of how in my country, English isn't the first language, heroine term is used for major female characters (particularly what they find hot) like Ora, early Aguilera, or occasionally Berobitch. If one'd deny that female Riders are heroines because of how that role is usually done in the past, it's more about the problem with KR turning females into one or back in the past, them only being one-offs or dying.

Yes tbh. Those who claim heroine should be supportive non-fighters are just the same ones as those who claim primary Rider should be the straight up heroic one and secondary Rider should be the edgy one, etc, because usually their roles are like that. Roles mean nothing to characterization, even if many are typically made that way in that role. For non-KR tropes, there are those who claim that being protagonist means they should be likable, always right, always hold the moral high ground, because of thinking that the term protagonist equates hero, when it's not, protagonist only means main character, even if many protagonists are made heroic.

He's just a passing through Kamen Rider. Remember that!

A number of times, like plural? I only count once that you mention preteens before. If you can cite a second post, then please do. Otherwise, this feels like a repeat of the Bun Violet case where you basically forget what you said and deny that you made a mistake.

I'm sticking with "stupid" to describe that arc. If Daiji had known that Gif was lying and continued to serve him anyway, then that would be edgy. In the end, he was just a gullible idiot, like so many people in this show.

Yeah sure, I know that. I think the fault lies with Toei then, since the staff use "heroine" as a term for a specific archetype instead of the literal meaning of the word. Rinne is a heroine, but she's not the heroine, if that makes sense. I mean, it doesn't, but that's Toei's internal logic anyway. Like you said, the infamous Female Rider Curse is a whole thing and I think the franchise is still kind of recovering from that, as some people have unfair expectations of female characters becoming Riders, expecting them to suck and/or get killed. To the extreme that even if a female character is a bad character, they don't mind as long as she can fight and impose on others, which is such a toxic way of thinking.

Like those who would deny Ace and Tendo being protagonists, claiming that they're not the usual archetype. Yeah, the protagonist is the main focus of the story and sometimes they're not easy to relate to, but it's still about them. Even when we hate the protagonist, their role stays the same. Likewise for heroines, at least by the literal meaning, as long as they meet the criteria of being female and heroic/antiheroic, the smaller details are irrelevant to that role. Ultimately, the plot should move based on characters' actions, not the other way around, while the role of protagonist and antagonist can change depending on who's the narrative focus.