Yeah, I'd say this about sums it up. On a related note I'd like to say that since opinions on Rider shows vary so wildly, it's kind of important to have a feel for why something is loved and/or hated, or how the tastes of someone saying something line up with your own.

In Ghost's particular case, I think a lot of the hate for it (especially while it was airing) was extremely hyperbolic, and occasionally some complaints would be so divorced from the actual show I'd argue they were objectively incorrect. That being said, plenty of the hate wasn't exaggerated, and, getting back to my point about taste, I'm very passionate about Kamen Rider and have never truly disliked even the shows I find below average, so I have to admit that I have my biases too.

If you want my advice on how to tackle Ghost, I'd say... be chill about it? It's not like it's a big deal at the end of the day. If you end up enjoying it more than you expected, that's great! If you don't, that's still great, because you can just move on to greener pastures. Maybe do an older Heisei show or something.

EDIT: Oh, also Byg42 just rattled off a bunch of things I hugely agree with, especially the bit about the themes. Ghost was very blunt in its messages, but, especially when you remember the target audience, I think it had some good things to say, and both the overarching plots and a huge amount of the individual episode plots tie into those messages in a very direct way that I adore. Very rarely does Ghost ever go "off-topic", so to speak.

Okay.

I think those are some good points.

But..... do the bad parts of this show outweigh the good? Or is it all subjective?

Yes. By a lot.

The characters range from boring to deeply obnoxious, the action scenes are mostly just dudes standing around shooting CGI at each other, and the plot is a complete clusterfuck that gives up by the end and starts bringing in characters from web videos with no explanation and for no reason. It is a complete dumpster fire of a show.

It's-

- subjective, yeah. Definitely subjective. I loved most of the characters, I think a lot of the action was quite nice, even including a lot of stuff involving Kamen Riders actually riding their bikes early on, and the plot was most definitely not something I would call a "complete clusterf***", even later on (though that thing about the web videos is indeed pretty dumb), nor would I describe the overall series as a "dumpster fire", but I suppose that goes without saying. I'd say at worst Ghost is like 50/50 good/bad, and that's me trying to be as pessimistic about it as possible.

Again, at the end of the day the only one who can ultimately decide whether or not you like something is you.

Well, I might as well TRY to watch it.

I mean, the suits look cool. And the plot looks like it'll be.... interesting, at the very least. :D

Why the heck not try it? I got through ToQger. Let's give Kamen Rider's own ToQger a watch.

Yeah to be honest, I'd try to just cancel out all the negativity about a show and just dive in and let myself decide whether it's good or not. Problem about the internet is the big opinions of people can sometimes get overwhelming and that definitely effects the viewing pleasure of a show.

It's why I normally try and reset myself whenever watching a new Rider because it's a new year and it shouldn't be compared to others. Which is why I sigh when Gaim gets brought up to compare to the most recent Rider series because I thought we moved past that after Drive.

Though speaking of Ghost I have to say... I actually liked Akari as a character more than say Kiriko from Drive? Kiriko was cool don't get me wrong but it felt like Akari did more and her actions felt more meaningful since she was a childhood friend of Takeru's, and everything she does is fueled by her passion to make sure her best friend comes back to life. Like Akari did a lot of stuff which wasn't fighting related, and a lot of her involvement really helped the cast pull through when they needed it. That being said I'm a bit meh on the rest that aren't the three main Riders.

Takeru... honestly I never got the big deal about Takeru being bad, but then again I'm a guy who puts up with Sora from Kingdom Hearts so Takeru isn't really that bad in terms of his character.

Yeah I find it best not to get too hung up on what the general opinions on shows are. You never know when a show might particularly speak to you even if its fandom reception isn't generally all that great. It may also just be terrible, but hey, at least you can have fun complaining about it!

Yeah. I hate it when people compare shows to one of the previous ones. Its like all the Digimon fanboys comparing everything to Tamers or Adventure, or the Yu-Gi-Oh fanboys comparing everything to 5D's. :mad:

It's annoying. Judge the show on its own merits, not whether or not it "beats this other one".

I like Sora. :D

....So Takeru is pretty much our favorite Keyblade wielder? Super happy, all/most of the time?

I'm trying not to let the fandom get to me. :(

---

Also.... Uh, Gaim..... I..... I dunno about it.

I want to watch it, but I don't like the way Urobuchi writes his stories and characters. Like, his plots borrow elements from his other works, he usually tells and rarely shows (by way of exposition), and his characters are literally walking ideals.

I don't know if I can get past this preconceived notion I have about his work.... Is it "bad" if I don't watch it?:confused:

Well my friend who is a big Kingdom Hearts nut watched Ghost as her first show, she was surprised at how similar the two were and how Kingdom Hearts and Kamen Rider in general have some really good themes both share and can connect with. But yeah she basically compared Takeru to Sora as basically being very similar.

But yeah super happy, has his down moments, but usually is optimistic most of the time.

Sounds very similar, from what I hear. :D

I've now gotten through 13 episodes of both series I'm watching, which is an arbitrary enough number that I think it warrants an update.

So, Kabuto, it's got me mixed up. I like the characters...well, I like some of the...ok, two. I like two of the characters. But it's mostly ok, those two characters are Kagami and Tendou, and they're the main characters, so that's fortunate.

But...that's it. I like Kagami and Tendou. Everything else? Eh.

Hiyori is boring. ZECT is boring and dumb as shit. And I mean like, really dumb shit, not college-graduated, respectable shit. Real dumb shit. Kageyama is irritating, to be generous, and Drake, let me tell you, Drake exists.

I guess the first TheBee is ok. But not ok for me to remember his name.

The Worm are super boring. Some of the most boring monsters I've seen in all of Rider. I'm still only a fraction of the show into it, of course, so I guess that could change, but man, I do not care in the least about them, and that cheapens the show some, because they're, like, the villains. Watching Tendou and friends beat up mall Santas gone bad would be more interesting.

And I dunno, the plot and writing so far just boils down to either being boring or dumb. It's just, a dumb show. I had hoped Yonemura was better beck in prehistory in 2006, and he is, I guess, but he's still not very good.

Tendou is entertaining when he's on screen and Kagami is relatable, but that's about all I can say for it.

I have less to say about Black RX, but on the whole, I'm enjoying it more. Not in every instance, like, episodes focused on Shigeru aren't too fun, because he's an annoying little shit, and there's already been more of them than I care for in just 13 episodes, which bodes poorly.

Other than that, and the fact that every new monster of the week is each apparently the Strongest! Warrior! Ever!, it's fun. I enjoy the villain group, and the suit design is top-notch all around. Action is pretty fun too. And I love the ending theme. So yeah, shit's good.

Shigeru is basically just the replacement for every random kid-of-the-week from Black. The only differences are that it was easier to have one stable character instead of having to hire a new child actor every episode and that this one grew up to be a voice actor. I agree on the villains; it's one of those rare occasions where Kamen Rider had a Sentai-esque squad of evil generals and they all got their moments to shine throughout the series.

I definitely see that too, I mean, even Makoto gets his own Replica like Riku does in Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories. That's why I personally loved Ghost besides the Kingdom Hearts feel to it, I just loved the optimism of it and believing in yourself and people.

I have also felt that Kamen Rider OOO also has a bit of Kingdom Hearts feel towards it too.

Though I love both Kingdom Hearts and Kamen Rider and love the similarities between the two.


SkyRider Episode 16: This was a brilliant episode, definitely felt more connected to the past. General Monster's time is almost up and this plan was definitely a solid one though. I loved Hiroshi, Tani, Midori, and Numa talking about what's going on, and trying to solve the mystery; also that they know anything too out of the ordinary is a NeoShocker plot. Damn, they are killing off a lot of people these Evil Organizations don't play around. The combat was spectacular this episode, lots of slow-motion shots that just made it amazing. Also, the Sky Kick loved particularly amazing lately as well. I am loving this show a lot and can't wait to see the final battle with General Monster.

If it's basically "Kamen Rider Kingdom Hearts" I think I may like it. :D

It definitely is similar to it, at the same time it is different. Though go into it thinking like that and you'll be good.

SkyRider Episode 17: The end of General Monster, he was a solid villain. His plan was very good. I enjoyed how dark this got and how this brought out more of the determination in Hiroshi, because he's already lost a group of friends to NeoShocker that he doesn't want to lose any more people. Including all the other innocents NeoShocker has taken they are just a horrible, horrible organization. The combat sequences are becoming even better this season. I am intrigued to see how Admiral Demon changes this up for the next part. I can't wait for more.

SkyRider Episode 18: Alright, Admiral Demon is definitely darker and does things a bit more intelligently. The time bomb at the end was a surprise I wasn't expecting. The ShockRayMan was something else, I felt that Hiroshi would not like electricity after this but damn can SkyRider take a lot of electricity. The combat is just awesome, though the killer conga line was fun too. Though it is interesting that the other girls were written out because they were hurt; I wonder if they had a falling out or something. I can't wait to see more.

Picked Kiva back up after stopping it due to study abroad in Japan. I'm up to 19 now. I really liked the way the archery girl arc played out, there was a nice connect between the past and present storylines. Also I'm glad they're finally looking into WHY Ixa wants to defeat Kiva. I'm not sure how this whole Otoya is in the present thing is going to work out? Still really enjoying this series, by the way.

I'm glad you are enjoying it. I certainly didn't so it is nice to see someone having a good time with it!

SkyRider 19: Man this episode had a ton of great shots for Toku out of Context scenes lol. Wolfman and the giant megaphone was hilariously dangerous. SkyRider managed to actually get rid of a bomb and damn was his bike fast and furious in the beginning and the end. The new girls were pretty helpful this episode and actually fun so I am liking them. Hiroshi's courage and instincts were awesome too. I can't wait for Stronger next episode, yay Kamen Rider Team Up! =)

Stronger 16:

https://i.imgur.com/e6T5dXO.png?1

I like this plan, no turning people into dead flying squirrels or some nonsense involving magma or stabbing people with frozen bananas. General Shadow gets straight to the point!

This show is still just super weird for me to watch though. I love how it doesn't care about explaining things at all. So many times we have had exchanges like:

Monster: How are you alive Jo Shigeru?
Shigeru: Hahaha, I have NO idea and/or wont tell you!

Great stuff. In this episode the monster brainwashes some kids with poison and Stronger randomly gives a blood transfusion to them which fixes it somehow. The whole show is like this. I have absolutely no idea what to make of it. :lol

Just finished Kiva 25. I can see the plot building like crazy in the last few episodes. I'm excited to see where this goes and to see how it all connects in the end. Also, I love Emperor form.

Would you suggest Kiva?

It looks interesting.

Well I personally like it, but the majority here would suggest you avoid it.

As a person who just watched Kiva, which was the most agonizingly painful thing I have ever watched, I cannot bring myself to recommend it to anybody. I would rather smash my head into a brick wall until I got a concussion than watch Kiva again. If romance vampires sounds like your cup of tea though, go for it. Everyone seems to love at least one show written by Inoue, maybe Kiva will be yours!

My generic advice when it comes to recommendations is "whatever sounds interesting to you probably will be", but be warned that Kiva is definitely a flawed show. It struggles with plot and character development sometimes, but the style is impeccable, when it comes to things like the action and the music.

Maybe just give it an episode or two? Kiva's a fairly even show so if you find yourself enjoying it early on, you'll probably enjoy it the whole way through.

I disagree with your last point, as I my problems with Kiva don't really start becoming problems until about the half way point or so, but I agree with everything else. Something I've learned about Kiva is that the best to watch the show is to take everything at face value. The show has problems no matter how you look at it but it isn't until you start poking at all the holes it has that those problems begin to really mess with your enjoyment of the whole thing.

I think what really ruined my enjoyment of Kiva was my seething loathing of pretty much every single character. Like, I'm not a fan of Den-O, but it has Deneb (and by extension Yuuto) in it, which made me glad I watched it in the end. I had no such character to latch onto in Kiva, with my favorites simply being the characters who didn't actively tick me off, which just resulted in the experience being extremely bad.

Kiva is a rider with a awesome suit design, but the show itself sucks in my opinion. Kiva was the first Rider show that I drooped. With Decade, I was able to finish it since it was a short show.

The way I see it is more, the problems are there the whole time, you're just less to liable to notice them early on, but I can see where you're coming from.

This is another good point. I found both Otoya and Wataru really held the show together for me, so your mileage may vary.

Do you hate yourself?

Kabuto 15-16

These "but who's the Worm???????" plots are so incredibly, flabbergastingly fucking stupid. They always have been. They are. And they will continue to be. Because, they have shown on multiple occasions that Zect has a special device that lets them see who is and isn't a Worm, instantly.

Which means plots like this one, the one about Kagami's brother, that one with the lady in jail, or figuring out the traitor in Shadow...they're all stupid and unnecessary.

I'm really just repeating myself at this point, but Kabuto. It's so dumb, and not in a good way.

Kabuto's head writer is the guy that does all of the Super Hero Taisen movies. He's never met a plot that he didn't like to run into the ground through repetition.

Kabuto's such an odd show because it feels like they're just going "Fuck it, why not?" half the time.

To be fair, one could see it as Kagami's denial over his brother's death

I thought the Zect Worm detector thingy only worked on unmolted Worms? Not that the show ever bothers to EXPLAIN that, but as far as I can remember it only ever works on unmolted Worms, not to mention that their detection device seems to rely on heat sensing and one of the trademark signs that a Worm is going to molt is a boost in body temperature.

I actually like all the characters, and I enjoy seeing their antics every episode. That being said, I definitely have heard that the second half has problems, and I'm getting there. One of the big ones that I hear a lot is the overuse of Emperor, but personally, it doesn't make sense to keep using the original form when Emperor is stronger. I don't like when KR shows keep trying to bring back the earlier suits. Why would Takeru use Ore Damashii when he has Mugen Damashii? Why would Emu use lvl 2 when he has Muteki? So that's two complaints about it that I don't really agree with, hopefully this trend continues for the rest of the series.

*sigh*

Deleted my Ghost torrents. For the second time.

Moving onto Wizard....

Okay so I just finished Kiva 29 and the problems are becoming slightly more apparent. I think the biggest thing for me is the fact that it goes in and out of plot points so quickly. Otoya gets amnesia and Maya pretends to be Yuri. This lasts for one episode and nothing has come out of it. I have a feeling that it will set the stage for Wataru's heritage though. Jiro tried to kill Otoya and Yuri, but a couple of episodes later, he's teaming up with Otoya to fight Rook. Also Ixa hasn't fought or really even mentioned Kiva at all since the episode where Otoya took over Wataru's body. Also, to a lesser extent...Nago gets Ixa confiscated before he travels back in time, but then when he returns to the present, he has it again? If his actions really did change the future, then why do Kengo and Wataru still have the weapons to fight the fangire with?

At the end of the day, no Kamen Rider series is perfect. Even highly rated ones, like Ex-Aid, have their issues. But I'm okay with that, because at the end of the day...it's a kid's show. I don't take it too seriously, and it makes everything a whole lot more enjoyable to me. At this point in the series, the good in Kiva far outweighs the bad.

Oh, also....Emperor form is not nearly as overused as I expected. Maybe it'll become more apparent later on, but I actually hope for that - just cut straight to the chase. I'm tired of seeing normal Kiva get beaten up before Emperor shows up.

I can accept this explanation, it makes sense. But yeah, I do wish the show would spend even a second explaining these things though. 20 episodes in and they really haven't bothered to explain much of anything about the Worms.

Speaking of 20 episodes in...

https://i.gyazo.com/96d8e7569412e9aa...58ea6260be.png

Exactly what Kabuto needed, another obtuse son of a bitch.

SkyRider Episode 20: Man, I had a huge Ridergasm moment when Stronger came out and said his iconic entrance. I am extremely giddy from that moment. Admiral Demon definitely is smarter than General Monster, sending out two monsters was a great idea. Loved Hiroshi's spirit here on feeling that he had to win no matter what because he knows what trouble they would cause. Though it was weird seeing his Sky Kick be ineffective here. Well, I can't wait for Kamen Rider Team-Up next episode. SkyRider/Stronger is going to be awesome. =)