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-   -   The All-encompassing STAR WARS Thread! (https://www.tokunation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26003)

ZeoRangerV 12-20-2015 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElConvoy (Post 583908)
Maybe its because I'm acting myself but the replacement of Anakins old actor is still the thing that bugs me the most about the special editions.
It's a toss up between that and changing Boba Fett's voice for me. I get the continuity and all but they just seem huge slaps in the face to those who originally portrayed them.

Kn1ghtW0lf87 12-20-2015 02:20 PM
Werent the originals still credited?
Oh and Kylo's fireblade lightsaber is perfection.

WhiteRanger 12-20-2015 03:08 PM
Noooo in returned the one thing bugs is reason I have not upgraded to blu ray yea I like prequal I will only upgrade them to blu ray not original trilogy

AgileSiamang7 12-20-2015 05:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SideswipePrime (Post 583865)
I liked it I wish it took more risks, but I can understand why they played it safe. I was not expecting it to be basically Episode 4, but hey. Also, when Han died, one dude was like "I didn't expect that" and I almost said "Really? I was." as soon as Han started walking towards his son I was like "HE DED!!!" Interesting to see how he was the Obi-Wan of this movie. I really liked Fin, and Rey was cool. I was surprised that Fin was a red herring in all the marketing, and he was in the movie as well, though the more it went on the more clear it became that this was more Rey's story. I was kind of surprised that we only got 30 seconds of Luke at the end, also wow Phasma did nothing, disappointing, since Disney was pushing her super hard. I'm sure glad I didn't buy into the hype and order her Figuart. Poor Han, no matter the continuity, his son becomes evil, but at least Jacen never killed his father. People say that Ben was whiny, and I disagree. He was more angry than anything else. Yeah, he threw a tantrum everytime something didn't go his way, but I mean...not all sith need to be brooding serious dudes. He's a kid who's confused, and i think they captured it well. It was executed far better than Anakin. I can understand why people might have a problem, because it reminds them of Anakin, but Kylo/Ben I think does that character type right, and does it well. Yeah, I'm now looking forward to "The First Order Strikes Back".



I'm fine with the movie being at it's base the same as Episode 4, I do kinda wish that they took some risks, but I can understand them wanting to play it safe here. It still was a good movie. I hope they switch things up and do their own thing in 8, which I think they will. I wouldn't go so far as to call it "nostalgia baiting" though.
By being nearly the same as episode 4 at the beginning and towards the end, how is it not nostalgia baiting? They don't seem to want to risk doing something too new, so they get everyone in the seats and keep them there by re-telling a New Hope with some add-ons (really well acted add ons, but with this plot they're still essentially add-ons) and the removal of older characters, in Han's case permanently (no problem with Han dying, besides the fact that they set it up pretty similar to Ben's death. I'd have no problem with the imagery/symbolism if the rest of that act wasn't the recreation of a New Hope). Everyone who seems to like this film is giving it a pass for basically doing the same thing it did the first time around, just one a bigger scale (more planets destroyed) and a different old man killed by a Sith. If any other movie or franchise did this, everyone would be hissing and booing, and I refuse to give Star Wars a pass just because I like some of their films before.

Even the parts that were it's own they just rushed. So R2-D2 just had the rest of the map to where Luke was and wouldn't wake up, even though he was safely in Resistance hands till that little piece was secured? He could have at least shown them that part of of the map, so they could send some forces to search their undercover, since apparently the First Order has apparently the same 90% map according to Ben, and you can be sure the sequel will have First Order forces playing a guessing game and scouring any planet in the area for Luke. Instead we just have Rey rush to him quickly, no problem, and movie ends with them sharing an awkward glance.

Part of the reason everyone and their mother kept hating prequel Anakin was because he whined like a child. Ben does the exact same, but he gets a pass. I don't disagree with people's view of Anakin, there's no denying that, but how is Kylo Ren anything other than a whiny fanboy of his Grandpa's bad half? Not all Sith are brooding, Dooku had a dignified way of handling himself, and Maul was just intimidating. Ren is basically everything people hated about the ruined Vader image, but now they're accepting it. Why, because he can stop a beam in mid-motion? That's cool, but it doesn't save his character. When he's holding Rey hostage he actually tries that nonsense Anakin was spouting on the Mustafar after slaughtering all those jedi: rationalizing his side as the good guys. Anakin tires to sound like some sort of justified person after killing little kids, and Ren calls the Resistance murderers after vaporizing 5 whole planets. If anything, Ren comes off worse.

AgileSiamang7 12-20-2015 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElConvoy (Post 583725)
Because thanks to Adam Driver you actually felt Kylos struggle. Anakin was whiny since Christensen wasnt able to give his rage the proper impact. Kylo is meant to be whiny because he is nothing more than a little kid lost in his ways. He wants to be a member of the dark side but is constantly tempted by the light. He is afraid to turn to the good side again. He is not a bad ass and he isnt meant to be one. The scebe where Han dies is the perfect example of this. Kylo thinls by killing his father he did the one thing that finally pushes him completely to the dark side which is why he is thanking his father after he killed him.
If Ren wasn't meant to seem like a badass, they wouldn't have given him a lightsaber that got fans debating on how the hell it works months ahead of the movie, and they wouldn't have shown him stop that beam in mid-air at the beginning of the film. Being a grown man with the scared mentality of a little child shouldn't save the character from criticism, it should spark the start of it. I got nothing out of Driver's performance but a condensed version of Anakin's flaws. At least with him we knew why he acted that way, even if his reasoning was nonsense. They gave us barely anything with Ren, like why he views the Resistance as murderers, thieves, and liars. Don't just say they were lies fed to him by Snoke, lies need some half-truth or a moment taken out of context to be believed, so what was he shown to make him think that? Not showing that leaves him as just an idiot to the audience, unless we're supposed to take from that that Leia and Han didn't even tell him anything about Darth Vader, leaving Snoke to fill the gaps (meaning you make two old heroes look like dumb jackasses for the sake of making a new villain. When has that ever been a good idea?)

At least in A New Hope we had the lie that Vader and Anakin were separate people, so when you first saw Vader he was just a walking dark scary knight, and his backstory wasn't muddled with the question of "why is he this way?" Ben was raised by at least 3 people who had no reason to not make it clear that "Grandpa kind became an asshole, and we have a responsibility to have not another person from this family become a planet destroying douche", but somehow he ended up a 5 planet destroying douche. At least give a real hint as to why he's like this way, beyond the fact that Snoke got to him (somehow, vaguely that they're saving for a sequel), which just implies that Luke is a shit uncle and by doing so you're throwing your old protagonist under the bus so that Rey and Finn can take the spotlight.

GoseiWonder 12-20-2015 08:48 PM
SOOOOO MUCH BLACKED OUT TEXT!!!! :lol

SideswipePrime 12-20-2015 08:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AgileSiamang7 (Post 583963)
By being nearly the same as episode 4 at the beginning and towards the end, how is it not nostalgia baiting? They don't seem to want to risk doing something too new, so they get everyone in the seats and keep them there by re-telling a New Hope with some add-ons (really well acted add ons, but with this plot they're still essentially add-ons) and the removal of older characters, in Han's case permanently (no problem with Han dying, besides the fact that they set it up pretty similar to Ben's death. I'd have no problem with the imagery/symbolism if the rest of that act wasn't the recreation of a New Hope). Everyone who seems to like this film is giving it a pass for basically doing the same thing it did the first time around, just one a bigger scale (more planets destroyed) and a different old man killed by a Sith. If any other movie or franchise did this, everyone would be hissing and booing, and I refuse to give Star Wars a pass just because I like some of their films before.

Even the parts that were it's own they just rushed. So R2-D2 just had the rest of the map to where Luke was and wouldn't wake up, even though he was safely in Resistance hands till that little piece was secured? He could have at least shown them that part of of the map, so they could send some forces to search their undercover, since apparently the First Order has apparently the same 90% map according to Ben, and you can be sure the sequel will have First Order forces playing a guessing game and scouring any planet in the area for Luke. Instead we just have Rey rush to him quickly, no problem, and movie ends with them sharing an awkward glance.

Part of the reason everyone and their mother kept hating prequel Anakin was because he whined like a child. Ben does the exact same, but he gets a pass. I don't disagree with people's view of Anakin, there's no denying that, but how is Kylo Ren anything other than a whiny fanboy of his Grandpa's bad half? Not all Sith are brooding, Dooku had a dignified way of handling himself, and Maul was just intimidating. Ren is basically everything people hated about the ruined Vader image, but now they're accepting it. Why, because he can stop a beam in mid-motion? That's cool, but it doesn't save his character. When he's holding Rey hostage he actually tries that nonsense Anakin was spouting on the Mustafar after slaughtering all those jedi: rationalizing his side as the good guys. Anakin tires to sound like some sort of justified person after killing little kids, and Ren calls the Resistance murderers after vaporizing 5 whole planets. If anything, Ren comes off worse.
Because to me "nostalgia baiting" is when you just cheaply throw stuff in without context, and do it soley for just "Hey! I remember that!" and I'm not giving it a free pass because it's Star Wars. If there's one thing the Star Wars fandom has proven is that there are no free passes, just look at how hated the prequels are, and I've come to see that Kylo is a "You love him or you hate him" character. I wasn't talking about his deeds when I said he was Anakin done better, but more in terms of motivation, and how he was acted. He's much more convincing in that role, and I think he pulls it off well. People don't necessarily hate Anakin just for his whiny-ness. It's also because we only saw him in a negative light, and because he was so easily swayed, it was insulting, so his fall to the dark side wasn't this horrible tragic turn, but more of "Yeah, ok, sure this is happening now." and I'm not giving it a free pass "because it's Star Wars" Disney and Abrams new that they couldn't mess it up, so I'd rather this then they take too many risks, and we end up with another Phantom Menace. Play it safe for the first one, then do your own thing with the other ones, once you've got people on board. That and while at it's very base it follows the same story beats, it does a lot different, like the whole beginning is basically new stuff, and the new content does outweigh the old.

As for R2-D2, I don't know why he didn't...I'd have to watch it again. As for Rey, I mean, she DID have the map, so why wouldn't she rush to find him? As for the last shot, yeah, the helicopter shot was kinda dumb.

Dr Kain 12-21-2015 12:14 AM
Did anyone catch that Simon Pegg was the junk dealer dude?

As for Kylo , people didn't complain about Anakin's whining because he whined. They complained about him because of his stilted acting and horrid script reading. The dude was reading a script, he was not acting. Kylo's actor is actually performing.

ElConvoy 12-21-2015 08:06 AM
Oscar Isaac is just one of the coolest dudes acting right now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7N17DN8wRk

KyoryuGreen 12-21-2015 09:46 AM
I freaking loved Episode VII, I've been meaning to mention it since I saw it Thursday. I think it's my favorite Star Wars movie, then probably the prequels. Kylo Ren was my favorite character from it, he was fantastic. Also loved Rey, Finn, Poe, Han and the others. I actually liked the characters a lot in this. I mean it gave me new respect for Han too. Well I can't wait for the next one.


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