Originally Posted by Sentai Tamashii (Post 12715)

That's totally a valid point, and for people who are like that they have TV-Nihon or GUIS, I'm happy with what Over-Time is doing, so when I download, I prefer Over-Time :) Like ZeoRanger V said, I'm just happy that we have choices :D

Originally Posted by PkmnMstr (Post 12730)

I'm well aware you cannot fully learn a language in such a way. I know because I'm currently in a Chinese class, a language I could never learn in such a simple way. I have done a fair bit of studying of Japanese outside of subtitles and I have never taken a class. My understanding is extremely limited and will not get better without actual study. Chinese and Japanese have a lot in common. I guess it's similar to how one would pick up a language after living in a foreign country for a while.

Aside from that, I do completely understand your point. Although the different views on the matter is what resulted in the many many different fansub groups and their styles of subtitles. Yes, the way they SHOULD be subbed is how you describe, but not everyone is completely in the dark on Japanese now, even some people who've learned Japanese will still watch with subtitles because their understanding is not extensive. So the partially untranslated stuff works perfectly fine. This is one of those things that's best left alone. Watch what you like, and ignore the rest. I have the same outlook on the console wars. Everything now is personal preference. There is the way things SHOULD be done and then the way people LIKE it to be done. If no one liked it, groups like TVN wouldn't exist.

Edit: I totally missed a bunch of posts when I posted this, so if there are any redundancies, that is why.

Originally Posted by Drakkhen (Post 12676)

How can you have a full understanding of a sub unless it's fully translated?

Originally Posted by Kickback (Post 12767)

Everyone please drop the hostilities at each other.

I think the point Drakkhen was trying to state is that you cannot truly learn a language from a fansub, and for a variety of reasons - for starters, the Japanese language has many words that do NOT translate correctly or literally, not to mention the use of "slang" in each language is entirely different. When that happens, translators take the liberty of trying to "Americanize" the slang, resulting in a different meaning or word than what is actually being said.

You may be able to pick up some common words and phrases, but like Spanish (which I took 8 years of) ... just because you know "biblioteca" is "library" and "querer" means "to want" and "yo" means "I" doesn't mean that "yo querer biblioteca" means "I want to go to the library" ... it actually translates "I to want library". "Yo quiero ir a la biblioteca" on the other hand ... (close but still not exact translation).

That's the point he was trying to make, and he took insult to the fact that those who have studied a language for years and years and still can't say they "know" or have "learned everything" are somehow up to par with people watching loosely translated fansubs.

I hope that makes sense :)

Originally Posted by MidoGreen (Post 12769)

*sheds tear*Did we have our first subtitle preference dispute? We've reached a milestone guys :lol. We are officially a forum about Toku now!