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-   Tokusatsu Show Discussion (https://www.tokunation.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=20)
-   -   Saban Brands vs PR Actors (https://www.tokunation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45160)

cb1 05-12-2013 06:18 PM
he find right past actors for super mega force and
saban brands own my vortexx too

Taro3 05-12-2013 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MnemonicSyntax (Post 150082)
And you're making the claim it won't. But, here's the thing. I've got that same social media on my side of this discussion with several actors saying they don't find it worth it financially to go to New Zealand (see: Steven Cardenas, Matt Austin) not worth it because of their time on set (see: David Yost) and other actors who don't even know what Megaforce is (see: Melanie Valejo). All this "dishonesty" yet I've got actors saying otherwise and the same thing I'm saying to you!

Do you have 2000 bucks and an entire day to fly out to New Zealand? The average Joe does not. For many of these people, they are average Joes.

So far, you keep digging yourself deeper with these examples.



But they are! I've proved it to you! Let me break it down for you.

- They got the invite. The invite was rescinded.
- They got the invite. Notice is too short.
- They got the invite. They don't want to go because it's not financially worth it.
- They got the invite. They don't want to go because they're not interested in dealing with Saban anymore based on how they were treated on the set.
- They didn't get the invite. They don't even know what Megaforce is.
- They didn't get the invite. They're upset they didn't and want to go, but continue to bring up how it's not worth it, financially.

What do you not get man? You don't believe these people when they say it's not worth it to go? How is any of that their fault?



Are you serious. Not everyone follows Super Sentai. It's not as big as you think it is. It has a niche fandom in the US, but widely popular in Japan. Even then, it's highly isolated!

And, Gokaiger isn't Power Rangers. Stop comparing the two.

How can you sit here and judge the actors (that you respect and love, I might add) but when they flat out say any of the aforementioned laundry list of issues why going isn't going to work for them, it's a weak excuse. No, it's not! You don't live their lives! You don't know what they do, their financial situations, life issues, etc.



That's not going to happen. Saban had his chance to make things better over the years and didn't. He's a cheapskate and everyone knows it. The actors that are coming forward and are interested and are going, nothing will change for them. They're still not going to get paid for their time, and the burden lies on them to "make it right for the fans" when Saban did this in the first place. The fact that you're suggesting that the actors "make the first move to make it better" proves that you know Saban won't budge.



Again, you're laying the guilt on the fans. You know, the same ones that you're speaking for. I'm not saying Saban is evil. I'm not saying the actors are good. It's not about that. It's not about trying to make things "right" for one shot in front of the camera. To them, that's not worth it. Saban, financially speaking, is a genius. If his plan was to get people in suits and be the "Power Rangers of the past" then that's smart of him. The bottom line is to sell toys. They don't make toys of civilians, they make toys of Rangers. That is what will sell.

Just because Saban is a cheapskate doesn't mean he's evil.



Yes, I know what you want. But again, the other fans you're speaking of... here even, at Tokunation... they understand that doing this isn't a great idea. Most of the actors have reached out to fans and have stated the reasons why. I'm sick of repeating them to you. If you respect them so damn much, maybe respect their decisions too.



It is selfish. You're not getting it. You want them to show up on film for your glorious children's show (that the target audience doesn't even recognize in the least) and have them drop everything in their lives to do it.

And now you're insulting the actors as well. Let them live their lives.

And lastly, again. How old are you? You seem to not have idea what priorities are, do you?

Again, these guys aren't doing you any favors because they owe you nothing. Stop pretending like they do.
You don't seem to have a firm grasp on this concept of an average Joe or real life for that matter. If an average Joe's car breaks down, and it costs $2000 and they have to miss a day of work to get it fixed, the world as he knows it doesn't end. If your average Joe takes a vacation, it could easily cost more than $2000 and a day or two, and again it can be done without financial ruin. You're trying to spin these things as completely insurmountable obstacles when they're things that people do with every day.

I'm not expecting that every actor drop everything and show up. I understand that some won't be able to make it. But "it's not worth it" is the most generic cop out of an excuse on the planet. Anyone could use that to get out of anything because it's so vague and meaningless. I really think a lot of the actors could have politely declined the invitation and left it at that rather than use it as an opportunity to take cheap shots at Saban. That's one perfectly reasonable option. Another would be to reach out to Saban and explain the financial and scheduling challenges, maybe get multiple actors together and sit down with the people at Saban and try to come to a compromise, is that really so bad? Is that so unreasonable? That they try to find a way instead of airing all the dirty laundry? If you can't come, you can't come, but it's neither professional or respectful to play this blame game and throw the everything on Saban for being so awful.

I don't get why you're so opposed to the concept of compromise. Again, it really doesn't seem like you give a shit about MegaForce at all, you're just determined to hold your anti-Saban stance, and fuck everything else. Just as I haven't been an actor for Power Rangers, I'm sure you haven't worked for Saban Brands. So your assertion that they're completely incapable of compromise is completely baseless. You and I don't know, maybe there's a simple change out there that could make it possible for another former Ranger or two to appear. It really sounds like you don't want any kind of positive solution, that you'd rather there not be one.

I see Saban and the actors who played the former Power Rangers as both having an interest here. And so far in this debate, it seems like 100% of the expectations have been on Saban, while nothing has been expected of the actors. If you don't like Saban's offer, why not come back with something constructive? If they want to do it for the fans, then try to make it work financially, and if for some reason they can't, then just a little bit of effort on the part of the actors to work with Saban would be nice. If they don't give a shit about Power Rangers anymore unless they're being paid, then just say no thanks and own that decision rather than using Saban as the easy scapegoat.

I think turning this into a public fight is the wrong thing to do. The actors are in large part adding fuel to the fire with their comments. And that's really where we differ here. While I'd like to see a solution, you like seeing the fire.

ComicGuy89 05-12-2013 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taro3 (Post 150098)
You don't seem to have a firm grasp on this concept of an average Joe or real life for that matter. If an average Joe's car breaks down, and it costs $2000 and they have to miss a day of work to get it fixed, the world as he knows it doesn't end. If your average Joe takes a vacation, it could easily cost more than $2000 and a day or two, and again it can be done without financial ruin. You're trying to spin these things as completely insurmountable obstacles when they're things that people do with every day.

I'm not expecting that every actor drop everything and show up. I understand that some won't be able to make it. But "it's not worth it" is the most generic cop out of an excuse on the planet. Anyone could use that to get out of anything because it's so vague and meaningless. I really think a lot of the actors could have politely declined the invitation and left it at that rather than use it as an opportunity to take cheap shots at Saban. That's one perfectly reasonable option. Another would be to reach out to Saban and explain the financial and scheduling challenges, maybe get multiple actors together and sit down with the people at Saban and try to come to a compromise, is that really so bad? Is that so unreasonable? That they try to find a way instead of airing all the dirty laundry? If you can't come, you can't come, but it's neither professional or respectful to play this blame game and throw the everything on Saban for being so awful.

I don't get why you're so opposed to the concept of compromise. Again, it really doesn't seem like you give a shit about MegaForce at all, you're just determined to hold your anti-Saban stance, and fuck everything else. Just as I haven't been an actor for Power Rangers, I'm sure you haven't worked for Saban Brands. So your assertion that they're completely incapable of compromise is completely baseless. You and I don't know, maybe there's a simple change out there that could make it possible for another former Ranger or two to appear. It really sounds like you don't want any kind of positive solution, that you'd rather there not be one.
I think really, Saban has shown a very visible history of being unwilling to compromise. Austin St John's, Thuy Trang's and Walter Jones's case, David Yost, Danny Slavin, the Samurai casting where the auditioning actors were given an ultimatum at the very end of auditions with little room for negotiation, and so many more. If one actor complaints, maybe it's enough to give them the reasonable benefit of the doubt, but there are just too many cases from a varied bunch of people. Every time these tried to negotiate, they were shown the door, and Saban showed how easily replaceable they were.

"It's not worth it" is a perfectly acceptable excuse. I also don't see how these actors are wrong in any way, anyone could complain in a Twitter post or Facebook status about the indifference Saban seems to have as displayed in the letter they sent out. I used to study in the USA, and trust me, it is hell to travel all the way from this part of the world to there. Simply not worth it for what amounts to a tiny cameo scene.

MnemonicSyntax 05-12-2013 07:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taro3 (Post 150098)
You don't seem to have a firm grasp on this concept of an average Joe or real life for that matter. If an average Joe's car breaks down, and it costs $2000 and they have to miss a day of work to get it fixed, the world as he knows it doesn't end. If your average Joe takes a vacation, it could easily cost more than $2000 and a day or two, and again it can be done without financial ruin. You're trying to spin these things as completely insurmountable obstacles when they're things that people do with every day.
I'm not spinning anything. What I'm saying is what the actors have said. Please try to keep up. I don't care if you think it can be done, but the actors who are living their lives are saying it's not. Take a minute to read what's being said instead of pointing fingers.

Also, you keep avoiding the questions I'm asking. Stuff like, you know, your age... and if you can just afford to stop what you're doing to go to New Zealand for a few days with nothing to show for it except OMG! FANZ0RS SATISFACTION!

Quote:
I'm not expecting that every actor drop everything and show up. I understand that some won't be able to make it. But "it's not worth it" is the most generic cop out of an excuse on the planet. Anyone could use that to get out of anything because it's so vague and meaningless. I really think a lot of the actors could have politely declined the invitation and left it at that rather than use it as an opportunity to take cheap shots at Saban. That's one perfectly reasonable option. Another would be to reach out to Saban and explain the financial and scheduling challenges, maybe get multiple actors together and sit down with the people at Saban and try to come to a compromise, is that really so bad? Is that so unreasonable? That they try to find a way instead of airing all the dirty laundry? If you can't come, you can't come, but it's neither professional or respectful to play this blame game and throw the everything on Saban for being so awful.
But please, continue to put part of the blame on the actors instead, because you love and respect them so much.

Look around you kid. The people in the thread are saying the same thing I'm saying. The same things I've said. The same thing the actors have said. There is no compromise.

Regardless, it's not the actors job to clean up Saban's mess. It's not their responsibility to pay attention to social media and get ready to phone in to go back to the show that most aren't happy with in the first place.

Quote:
I don't get why you're so opposed to the concept of compromise. Again, it really doesn't seem like you give a shit about MegaForce at all, you're just determined to hold your anti-Saban stance, and fuck everything else. Just as I haven't been an actor for Power Rangers, I'm sure you haven't worked for Saban Brands. So your assertion that they're completely incapable of compromise is completely baseless. You and I don't know, maybe there's a simple change out there that could make it possible for another former Ranger or two to appear. It really sounds like you don't want any kind of positive solution, that you'd rather there not be one.
Wow. Let's point some fingers some more here. You don't know what I care about. If I was truly apathetic, do you think I would even spend time having this senseless debate with you? At the end of the day, it's going to do what? Not a damn thing. I'll continue to see that this is one big mess that is without a doubt Saban's fault, and you'll continue to rattle on and on about compromise and how everyone should stop what they're doing because you want them to, to go film a 22 minute show because you want it. You'll continue to take it personally how just because people moved on from different careers and fields, that you should still think they need to put on cape and mask because "that's what superheroes do." Please. Grow up son.

Quote:
I see Saban and the actors who played the former Power Rangers as both having an interest here. And so far in this debate, it seems like 100% of the expectations have been on Saban, while nothing has been expected of the actors.
That's right. You got something right for once in this discussion. It's not their job to fix Saban's goof ups.

Quote:
If you don't like Saban's offer, why not come back with something constructive? If they want to do it for the fans, then try to make it work financially, and if for some reason they can't, then just a little bit of effort on the part of the actors to work with Saban would be nice. If they don't give a shit about Power Rangers anymore unless they're being paid, then just say no thanks and own that decision rather than using Saban as the easy scapegoat.
But it's a not a scapegoat if the reason that all this happens falls on Saban.

Quote:
I think turning this into a public fight is the wrong thing to do. The actors are in large part adding fuel to the fire with their comments. And that's really where we differ here. While I'd like to see a solution, you like seeing the fire.
Wow. I like seeing the fire. Based on your second sentence in that paragraph, it shows me you haven't read any of the comments at all really. Most aren't "airing their dirty laundry" and have provided the fandom with very civil and polite answers.

Also, let me just point out another fallacy in your argument.

If it's about the money, you want them to say no thanks.

Yet, you want them to compromise if it's about the money.

But, you don't want them airing their dirty laundry.

But if it's about the money, you want them to own that decision.

The reason the money is an issue is because of Saban.
The reason the actors don't want to go back due to poor conditions on the set is Saban.
The reason invites were sent out at the last minute is because of Saban.
The reason invites were sent out and taken back, was because of Saban.
The reason some didn't get invites at all, is because, once again, of Saban.

We've come full circle as to why it's Saban's fault. None of the things that's been said by the actors via social media is nothing new. We've known about the issues working with Power Rangers for years now. The actors feelings haven't changed, but because you think they should stop what they're doing, to go be on a kid's show, because it's "the superhero thing to do", suddenly the actors need to go to Saban and figure out how to make it all right, just... JUST for this instance.

If the majority of the actors have nothing good to say about Saban, even the great JDF himself, have nothing good to say about Saban, why would they try to "fix things?"

What do I know, I'm just a guy that hates Megaforce, and likes to add fuel to the fire. Or, no... could it be I'm 32 years old, and I have a job, bills, school and also a single parent and know what "life" really is instead.

Nah. Couldn't be.

EDIT: I'm finished here. Everyone in the thread is pretty much saying the same thing I am, which is the same thing the actors are saying. Don't pin the blame on the actors because "it's their duty" to stop what they're doing and live the life you want them to lead.

Sentai 05-12-2013 08:02 PM
Guys. Remember to keep the debate friendly, and don't become personal. We're all fans here and shouldn't be belittled because of something we post.

Just asking you all to think about your posts before pressing that button.

Thanks.

Matrixbeast 05-12-2013 08:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentai (Post 150145)
Guys. Remember to keep the debate friendly, and don't become personal. We're all fans here and shouldn't be belittled because of something we post.

Just asking you all to think about your posts before pressing that button.

Thanks.
Isn't that statement an oxymoron?

Locke 05-12-2013 08:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrixbeast (Post 150149)
Isn't that statement an oxymoron?
Depends if you're...mass debating.

Sentai 05-12-2013 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrixbeast (Post 150149)
Isn't that statement an oxymoron?
You know what I meant, Matrix.

Fortune 05-12-2013 08:22 PM
Wow...just wow. I don't even know where to begin.

How can you say these actors don't care about there fans? Or they should do more for us fans. First off they are human beings, we are NOT entiteled to these HUMANS at all. Power Ranger actors give more and care about there fans then ANY other celeb I have ever met. I have had the pleasure of meeting hundreds of actors, actresses, wrestlers, sports stars, artiss, writers and musicians. NONE of them spent nearly as much time with their fans and had more of a connection then PR actors/actresses.

Heck I ran in to Johnny Yong Bosch at Disneyland and when he heard my brother remark "whoa is that Johnny Yong Bosch" Johnny stopped and begin talking to us. Even though he was there with his wife and VERY YOUNG child he took 30 minutes out of his day to with his family to talk with us. That was Mind numbingly cool to me. 30 minutes blew me away. No way in hell Id ever expect these people to give up 1-3 days of their life so they can appear on screen for 2 minutes. Thats just selfish and spoiled.

Further more, YOU sir have no idea about "the average joe" the Average Joe does not just have 2grand to drop at a momemts notice to take a vacation. They normally plan and save for months before dropping that kind of money on some well deserved rest and relaxation let alone charity work! When the average Joes car breaks down the dont normally just drop 2000$ and carry on. They hope and they pray they have rainy day cash AND that its enough to cover the cost. They then do whatever it takes to recupe the lost money.

How can any non spoiled/trust fund adult not see how very wrong Saban is in all this! I mean can you even guess how much money Saban has made off of each indivual actor and actress? I mean think about it. Think about how much freakin money Saban made off of JDF or Austin ST. John or even guys like Walter Jones! Or Valeri Vernan! Saban made an absurd amount off of everyone.

It was Sabans job to know about gokaiger and the anniversary not the actors. Heck I didn't even know Gokaiger was an anniversary season. All I knew was I saw some toys of Pirate power rangers. Yes Power Rangers. Thats what I call them because thats what I know. No matter what you THINK sentai is not this world wide craze that is just the talk of the town on average basis. Heck I have even watched a lot of Sentai but they are still Power Rangers to me because thats what I grew up on. Power Rangers is what I love. To me Sentei is just a cool little show that is enjoyable.

Would I like to see the entire cast back from every Ranger season ever? Of course! But not if it means these people who brought me joy have to lose money/credibility.

I dont care what job/role I had or if it was the 1st or 100th anniversary if I put my heart soul & body on the line and then the boss calls and says "yeeeeeaaaaah listen ....I know you made me thousands if not millions of dollars and helped me build what can only be described as an empire but do you think you could come back in for this big anniversary celebration we are doing for the 20th anniversary that weve already been crapping on? ...oh yeah you gotta pay your own way here....oh yeah you gotta pay for everything when we get here....oh yeah its on the other end of the world. ........and if you dont do it then youll make the fans hate you and forget all the public signings you do and all the meet and greats too" well Id have to tell that SoB that I would love to do something awesome fro my fans but its not worth it when I ONLY stand to lose. Especially cuz I do so much for my fans already. They should know I love them

MnemonicSyntax 05-12-2013 08:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortune (Post 150166)
Wow...just wow. I don't even know where to begin.

How can you say these actors don't care about there fans? Or they should do more for us fans. First off they are human beings, we are NOT entiteled to these HUMANS at all. Power Ranger actors give more and care about there fans then ANY other celeb I have ever met. I have had the pleasure of meeting hundreds of actors, actresses, wrestlers, sports stars, artiss, writers and musicians. NONE of them spent nearly as much time with their fans and had more of a connection then PR actors/actresses.

Heck I ran in to Johnny Yong Bosch at Disneyland and when he heard my brother remark "whoa is that Johnny Yong Bosch" Johnny stopped and begin talking to us. Even though he was there with his wife and VERY YOUNG child he took 30 minutes out of his day to with his family to talk with us. That was Mind numbingly cool to me. 30 minutes blew me away. No way in hell Id ever expect these people to give up 1-3 days of their life so they can appear on screen for 2 minutes. Thats just selfish and spoiled.

Further more, YOU sir have no idea about "the average joe" the Average Joe does not just have 2grand to drop at a momemts notice to take a vacation. They normally plan and save for months before dropping that kind of money on some well deserved rest and relaxation let alone charity work! When the average Joes car breaks down the dont normally just drop 2000$ and carry on. They hope and they pray they have rainy day cash AND that its enough to cover the cost. They then do whatever it takes to recupe the lost money.

How can any non spoiled/trust fund adult not see how very wrong Saban is in all this! I mean can you even guess how much money Saban has made off of each indivual actor and actress? I mean think about it. Think about how much freakin money Saban made off of JDF or Austin ST. John or even guys like Walter Jones! Or Valeri Vernan! Saban made an absurd amount off of everyone.

It was Sabans job to know about gokaiger and the anniversary not the actors. Heck I didn't even know Gokaiger was an anniversary season. All I knew was I saw some toys of Pirate power rangers. Yes Power Rangers. Thats what I call them because thats what I know. No matter what you THINK sentai is not this world wide craze that is just the talk of the town on average basis. Heck I have even watched a lot of Sentai but they are still Power Rangers to me because thats what I grew up on. Power Rangers is what I love. To me Sentei is just a cool little show that is enjoyable.

Would I like to see the entire cast back from every Ranger season ever? Of course! But not if it means these people who brought me joy have to lose money/credibility.

I dont care what job/role I had or if it was the 1st or 100th anniversary if I put my heart soul & body on the line and then the boss calls and says "yeeeeeaaaaah listen ....I know you made me thousands if not millions of dollars and helped me build what can only be described as an empire but do you think you could come back in for this big anniversary celebration we are doing for the 20th anniversary that weve already been crapping on? ...oh yeah you gotta pay your own way here....oh yeah you gotta pay for everything when we get here....oh yeah its on the other end of the world. ........and if you dont do it then youll make the fans hate you and forget all the public signings you do and all the meet and greats too" well Id have to tell that SoB that I would love to do something awesome fro my fans but its not worth it when I ONLY stand to lose. Especially cuz I do so much for my fans already. They should know I love them
Damn son. That was incredible. That's how you put something in a nutshell.

And the bolded part... is it bad that I channeled Bill Lumbergh's voice with that? XD


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