So turns out that Revice does have typical secondary Rider, but it happened later, with Daiji now acting like most of them.

Being the most rigid and logical of the siblings (other than his recent actions to fight off Akaishi), it's kind of expected he'd eventually take the easiest route to preserve the human race, by now siding with Akaishi. Siding with a nutcase like him would mean Daiji is now corrupted to some extent though, sharing some of his extremist views, with the logical part of him is directed into the mistaken belief of cynicism being an indication high intelligence, with how he insists that he knows best answers, and refuses to believe anything differently, forcing others to share their characteristics. And if they don't comply, the usual weapon is ofc mocking opposing worldviews, like it being 'naive', done against Ikki striving to create the best outcome. Now the secondary Rider berating primary Rider's worldview happened in Revice too. The family resemblance is also done this late, that Daiji is the one that resembles Junpei, being a pure raging berserker in his Holy Live fight. Though for now, while under Akaishi, Daiji still didn't commit evil directly and even tried to rein Akaishi down by not releasing demons. So Daiji now is still good (unlike Hiiro in Ex-Aid against Masamune), but turning into an anti-hero kind, like how Junpei was as KR Vail, and typical secondary Riders (even Yukimi acted like the "primary Rider" to Junpei's "secondary Rider").

And by above, Micchi now has returned to the franchise. To be specific, I meant Hiromi-cchi. I wonder if Hiromi, also previously impulsive and reckless, has changed and would be the one to guide Daiji in his now reckless actions.

It's already teased, but Akemi too, actually a teased major character that is killed earlier. She was presumed dead when she broke into the ViStamp room, of which she was actually captured, but actually that didn't extend her for long. I guess she's killed so the Igarashi siblings can't get their hands on the Giff power she has? And as known here Akaishi also made a scheme to put a rift between Daiji and his family, particularly Ikki, by showing a footage of Revice fighting (soon) Dead-man Akemi. Though as said by others, it's also a severe miscommunication that Ikki and Sakura didn't properly tell about their plan, and that actually does grate on me, I kept yelling inside to explain clearly to Daiji before it's too late or before the conflict escalated. I wonder if Daiji here has some parallel with Sakura, while Daiji now supports extremist methods (Akaishi's) more, Sakura also supports extremist methods (Bon's, Seiko's) before she became Jeanne. Sakura loses that outlook (pointing out that Giff takes away freedom) while Daiji gains that outlook. Now Daiji's the one that gotta be handed this:

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...06/extreme.png

This also seems to be the start of Karizaki resolution. Still about George either tuning out or calling out Masumi for shits he pulled or Masumi self-depreciating and taking any contempt towards him, but now George views Weekend as an excuse for Masumi to hide behind banner of justice (like faking), and Masumi revealing his burned face (as per Vail Legacy Part 5), with George still accusing him as sympathy hungry with his injuries and that he's not the only one with scars. Despite wondering of what George'd meant, it seems that George's KR fanboy traits are also neglected for now. Man, Revice abandoned its roots other than the family part, like even if George is redeemed, the KR fanboy can still be used or even better to have him being a fan of KR for its values now.

B-but rule of thumb in some place is that you'd have to be focused only on one or certain characters, like the most memey catchphrase ones! Like other than Hiromi in Revice, only talk about Kusaka and the smirk/grins for Faiz, Kuroto and KAMI-DA for Ex-Aid, Woz and IWAE for Zi-O, etc. Don't ruin the fun by bringing up anyone else!

Agreed. Though it's good that Weekend operated more, even complete with Kimiko, why the good guys (though a shadier one here) are usually made to be the more 'incompetent' one? They do have some moving speech there, but often stories portrayed them as the one putting less effort in their plans, compared to the villains, like Akaishi at least pretending to be hurt by Giff, or using footages to his liking. If Weekend would use that, it'd not even be a dirty/shady move to combat Akaishi. Obviously... this is still mid to late series so the villain can't be fully exposed, but this portrayal (and often) quite makes being good look bad and the reason to appeal into for example, extremist schemes (more prevalent on better characters than Akaishi).

Mooks shouldn't actually tire a regular Rider, let alone a huge upgrade on that. Peak humans like Sakura (at the very first episode) took them no problem and later Ikki too. But then again, are the Giff Juniors actually drastically buffed now (Phase 1 Deadmans like Kimura's Rafflesia are actually said as stronger, not this one)? Any Riders fighting them seems to be exhausted despite beating each of them without problem, either it Holy Live (if it's the reason he performed worse than Jeanne, depends on how much Hell Gifterian was toying with them), or also Hikaru (still as Over Demons) and Aguilera here. Aguilera got exhausted more than her debut against Vail?

This seems to be more typical, of prefering any secondary Rider to any primary Rider (and treating anything a secondary Rider says as right). So.. this means only by making Daiji someone similar to most secondary Riders... he can win the audience? By giving a character a tragic moment and also have them succumb to bitterness. Regarding Ikki not being called out (well, he got beaten up here), actually even Vail Legacy also didn't have Yukimi's busybodiness addressed.

Don't know how Daiji is more pure here. He actually pulled something worse than anything he did before to support Akaishi and looking down on other's worldview. He became more of a douche than ever, now similar to many secondary Riders. Daiji never pulled something like this with Kagerou around. So Daiji has become 'badder' than ever without Kagerou around, or that Kagerou must manifest stronger than ever with how fallen Daiji has been now.

[QUOTE=VoidinToku;830825]The weekend riders are growing. Might as well toss George, hiromi, and Julio tamaki the extra demon drivers and go all out kyoryuger style at this point Akashi is the typical rollover over the top insane villain without the charisma. Really can?t expect the heroes to be smart when they?re not aware of the obvious bad guy leader in front of them for the past twenty episodes.[/QUOTE]

honestly other than all the interesting villains being dealt with/killed off early while all the boring villains I don't give a damn about still being around, this is my biggest problem with Revice as a series after a while it functions off of idiot plot

You can still be "pure" in a sense and still be a horrible person. There is always the argument in light versus darkness kind of arguments that too much of one is bad, someone who leans towards the light too much can be just as dangerous as someone drenched in the deepest darkness.

But I'm mostly talking about purity when it comes from the whole having a demon living in someone. Holy Live is very much "purifying" Daiji of his demon, which isn't what this series is.

And yet he becomes the perfect antagonist for this series. An angelic armored being who seeks order even if it's a false order and won't stand for anything else. Standing against chaotic styled armored beings who seek peace but most importantly above all, Freedom.

Again, very classic SMT/Persona related stuff. And I can't help but really appreciate the direction they've chosen to go with this series. And that the jokes of people saying "So Revice is just SMT" right from Episode 1, would turn out to be so true. Cause more often than not if I recall, usually picking Neutral or Chaos in SMT is miles better than picking Order.

Man, I'm still not on board with this "Daiji is incomplete without Kagerou" deal. Holy Live's mini arc was about fusing Daiji and Kagerou together, how Daiji acted during the two following episodes, and even the website mentioning how Daiji has become "ruthless" gives off the assumption that they've united.

Not exactly 'getting along' with your demon, but still accepting and joining together both aspects of you as a person. So, It's actually annoying for the show to spin it this way.

Like, I get what they're going for, the "symbolism" of it all, but that doesn't automatically make me think it's good..

https://i.imgur.com/CNWM5jp.jpg

Many ants will overcome an elephant. In the first episodes, the Riders were not the target of the mooks. They attacked people in general and caused chaos, and only those who were in close proximity fought Rider. Now they are purposefully set against the Riders.


Bad angels have long been more common than good ones. But in my opinion, Daiji's position is still different from the position of most secondary douches. They, as a rule, are driven by selfish motives, when they do not care about everyone except those close to them. And Daiji just ignores his loved ones in order to save more lives. In this regard, he is just closer to the altruistic main Riders, only he is put in a losing position in advance. But of course everything falls apart as Akaishi doesn't even pretend that he and Gif can be merciful to people.

As someone who's only been tangetially keeping up with what's happening in Revice, it sounds to me like the issue with Daiji's current arc isn't that it's necessarily bad or uninteresting, in fact this feels like the most interest people have had in Daiji for the whole show. The issue is more it feels somewhat inconsistent with how his development was portrayed. That the Holy Live arc portrayed losing Kagerou as Daiji becoming a more complete person, and now his current arc saying that it was actually the opposite.

As for me, the main problem of Revice is the lack of thoughtfulness and depth of many points. In the previous episode's thread, it was already mentioned how great it would be to link Hana's re-adoption of Aguilera's name to Tamaki, for whom Aguilera has always been a savior. I regret the lost (though maybe not yet) Akaisha's potential.
Remember, he said that he was an ancient king who fought Giff, and then bowed before his power? Now imagine that he would not tell this with the grimaces of the Joker who had eaten unripe fruit, but almost with tears in his eyes. And add to this a flashback where, in the midst of burning ruins and the bodies of warriors, Akaishi throws his sword and falls to his knees in front of Gif.
"If we submit, surely no one else will die?"
"Of course".
And then Akaishi would show Daiji how Ikki, Sakura and the Weekend are trying to stop him once again and make it a reason to let the Giffs-younger go wild. Well, he would have grinned villainously when Daiji would run to save the day once again.
That way we, as viewers, would at least understand Daiji's position. And now he looks like a guy who is sure that the tiger tearing him to shreds is about to calm down and fall asleep peacefully, you just need to endure it.

I also think I know how to make the Over-Demons suit work. Only for this it would have to be given to Tamaki and protected until the very final battle.
During it, seeing how the Riders lose, Tamaki kept telling George: "I have to help them, I have to..." And George would answer: "It's too late! I won't have time to do anything new! Although... it may not be necessary" And George rushes to the box of spare parts.
Well, after Tamaki appears in a suit that looks like a mixture of the other two and saves Hana in order to get rid of his obsession with her and move on his own way. They will remain friends, but already more equal.
Only then should he have been given a less pretentious name. Invented! It's better not to name him at all, so that the fans argue whether to consider him Ryder or not. And the franchise would have Kamen Rider No Name.
Also, Hikaru also has to somehow (preferably during the story arc, but it’s easy) to get away from Sakura and then no one will interfere with the relationship of the Rider girls. By the way, do you think Kinoshita will write a wedding for them, or is that too much?

Right, true, 'pure' doesn't necessarily refer to alignment. I often see 'pure' (or 'cinnamon roll', or both) term being used to describe someone heroic, morally upright, with Rider sensibility (so has little to no unheroic traits), like many of the primary Riders. And previously before this episode the talk about Daiji being pure I saw was about him becoming 'too good/heroic' (by recklessly throwing away his life to stop evil) without his evil side Kagerou. But as you said, 'pure' can also mean having a mind free of distractions, unnecessary thoughts, doubts, or fallacies, refering to traits like hard work or determination. A philosophical concept of makoto. And that'd be Daiji being steadfast to save humanity by the easiest way he can think - giving up their freedom while ruthlessly opposing those who stands in his way.

I get it why you refer to him as an antagonist here, due to siding more with Akaishi for now, but it seems that for now Daiji and Ikki has standard hostile rivalry that is often done with primary and secondary Riders? (and rivals aren't antagonists in the series despite clashing with MC) Daiji didn't really directly commit evil yet here (he fought enemies in similar manner to Junpei, and tried to rein down Akaishi), just that he now has bleak worldview he forces to others and looks down on hopeful worldview, which is what many secondary Riders often do too. Just that it stands out much more to you here because previously this series has the cooperative type of primary and secondary.

True, many secondaries are about only caring about those close to them (and somehow some audiences equate that into caring for others in general, likely from the good outcome of their actions), but there are various ways to display unheroic qualities other than selfishness. Daiji has altruistic motivation as always, but his unheroic trait now is shown in him being an extremist to accomplish that with doing bad, robbing humanity of their rights (freedom). As Yukimi said good intentions don't matter if you take things too far. Saving lives should be the means, not the end, protecting freedom and happiness is the ultimate good. Actually one of the nastier secondary Riders was an extremist too, Kaito, wanting to free the world from social darwinism (noble cause) by destroying and recreating it (though ofc by then he became anti-villainious and the final boss).

I completely agree with this.