I guess it's two things.

First, most importantly, it's that here's nothing else in this last episode to get excited about, so, yeah, it's extra disappointing when the monster stuff is such a non-entity. (Boy oh boy, do I not love when the Riders do zero investigation and just stumble upon the villain at the end. Why are we even telling stories with monsters in it, then?) If there were another Rider to deal with, like Scissors or Kitaoka, I don't care (as much!) if the monster stuff is bottom tier. When the monster stuff is the only Rider action in an episode, I'd like it to feel like some thought was put into it?

Second, for the monsters in general, the thing I want is a clear objective, and a clever way of obtaining it. Like, Wizard, not a favorite show, but I got what each monster was doing, and how they achieved their goal differed from story to story. With these monsters... I'm sorry if folks who are into this show feel like I'm being unfair. I think this show does a bunch of things right, and has had a great ratio of hits to misses so far. But the Mirror Monsters, man, I feel like uninspiring is being mistaken for uncomplicated, and simplistic is being mistaken for streamlined. I just can't find an enthusiasm for monster plots that have nothing clever going on in them.

I don't... I don't know if I'm refusing to play ball? I can only respond to what the show is giving me episode by episode. Sure, I mean, I've got biases, ways I'd be more into what Ryuki does with the monsters, but it's not like I came into this with knives sharpened, ready to say Not My Kamen Rider or whatever. I want to like these shows! I want to have fun watching this! No one's forcing me to watch Masked Rider Ryuki! With the monster stuff, I just can't find anything to lock into. If someone's like, "They're supposed to be straightforward, they're supposed to be animals," like, okay, I can't argue that that's how they've been portrayed. I just, I wish they hadn't, because I think that's boring?

(Also, Kuuga/Agito/Ryuki are very much in a The Monster Plots Are Not The Best Part For Me space, maybe for some slightly different reasons, but mostly because there are so few twists or turns to them. If I'm remembering my thoughts wrong, and it seems like I'm being hypocritical, I'm sorry! Not my intention! Maybe let me know a little more what you mean if that's how I'm coming off, and I'll try and explain better.)

Sorry if I came on a bit strong there. I certainly was not trying to call you a hypocrite! I just found it amusing that after being bored by the portrayal of the monsters for two shows straight, Ryuki swings in a wildly different direction and still ends up boring you.

It's just... It's funny that you use the Phantoms as the control example for serviceable toku monsters. Because the thing is, that's the Showa era you're talking about right there. For a good few decades, nearly every plot of every toku show was just about a monster who is told at the start to do some thing by their boss, and then 20 minutes of them trying to accomplish that thing using their unique gimmicks before being blown up.

I've always had a huge soft spot for Shouichi's Agito-Sense, and the version of it that carried over into Ryuki. It's a bit lazy to just go "the hero heard a noise, time for a fight scene", yeah, but it exemplifies just how much freedom these shows were gaining in how they could be written. If an episode wanted to go almost straight soap-opera with only some token action, it could now.

Is that inherently good, or bad? You could argue points in either direction, and I think we're both in broad agreement that it comes down to how well those other elements are holding the story together. I definitely won't try and tell you Ren's weird amnesia adventure is the pinnacle of great Ryuki episodes.

No, you're good. We all care a lot about Kamen Rider, and it's cool to me that folks are willing to think hard about what they love. That's a healthy community.

For me, since I came in through Ex-Aid, I definitely have a subconscious expectation of how monster plots should work as compared to how Ex-Aid did it. Deep within me, the bar of greatness a monster plot has to clear is, "Is this plot as interesting as Lovelica?" Very few things can reach those heights, so I start trying to analyze what choices a show is making that keep it from thrilling me in the same way. I'd love to find a different type of monster plot that feels as vital as those Phase 2 ones do, but all I feel like I'm getting is less than.

And, yeah, to reiterate, I'm not furious if a show/episode skimps on monster plots to deliver a different kind of story. Some of my favorite stuff from Kuuga was about Godai's relationship with his teacher, or the way he'd try and help a sad, unmoored boy. I couldn't have cared less if the monsters sucked, as long as the story was good. Here, this one, there's no other adversary or objective to be worth a phoned-in monster plot. You can half-ass the dessert if you killed yourself making the main course, but if you half-ass everything, I'm sending it back to the kitchen.

Anyway, I'm going to go watch another episode of Ryuki, because I don't like being this guy. I don't like being a guy who complains about Kamen Rider. I want to be excited again!

If it helps, despite what I said very early on; this thread is making me realise I have fondness for a lot more things in Ryuki than I'd thought. It's still not quite for me overall, but from Scissors to the pacing to the fights there's a lot packed in here I enjoy!

MASKED RIDER RYUKI EPISODE 12

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ryuki/ryuki12a.png
https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ryuki/ryuki12b.png

Not bad! I think this one I half enjoyed, and half was glad this story could be over.

For the half I enjoyed, man, a lot of it was Shinji. I think he's the MVP of this one. He does what little he can to ground Ren's story, create some drama in it. Plus, like, he gets the only jokes in this one again. That whole thing of him saving Ren by trying to defuse the fight Ren starts, the part about him trying to name drop his EiC and the thugs are like Who and then Shinji's just Oh Cool I'm Going To Get My Ass Kicked Now, that stuff was an episode highlight. His need to protect Ren, to help him through a tough time by throwing himself in front of punches, that's the Masked Rider Ryuki I love.

The resolution of the whole Secret Science Club thing, I liked how it affected the characters more than I liked it for what was happening in the plot. It's nice to have one beat hit two characters, to intertwine Ren's grief and rage with Yui's guilt and shame. (My biggest gripe over these two episodes is that the show isolates the two characters who have the most skin in the game, plot-wise. A few moments of Yui and Ren processing the events of Secret Science Club together, even if it's just Ren's declaration of heroic vengeance and Yui silently hiding her guilt, I think that would've done the conclusion a world of good. Or, better yet, having their search for answers take place at the same time, with Ren's anger increasing at the same time as Yui's alarm. I don't know, I don't want to backseat showrun, it just feels like a missed opportunity.) This episode, it does a lot to explain their stakes, to make it feel more personal for both of them. Yui, her wanting answers about her brother, the need to know the truth no matter what, it's a strong motivation. But now that we know her fate was wrapped up in Shiro's choices, it makes that truth feel weightier, more dangerous. And Ren, seeing that he's forced to work with the monster who destroyed his happiness, that's not only very Kamen Rider, but it explains his motivation in a way that humanizes his struggle. Every time he Henshins, he has to draw on the power of the monster who hurt Eri, he has to harness that power for good. For both Yui and Ren, that's bleak, and dramatically rich. It's a solid reframing of the supporting cast of this show.

Still, I don't know if that was all worth these two episodes. The Ejima stuff, I'm just not that invested in a guy I never heard of before, wandering around pointing a Yu-Gi-Oh card at reflective surfaces? It's fine, in that the monster plot can be about them trying to corner and kill this one dude. That's something that feels more exciting and comprehensible than the previous episode. The Reiko plot is just about her becoming open to the possibility of new explanations to the mysterious disappearances she's been investigating, which, okay. (That conversation she has with the train conductor, where he's just People Disappearing Is Unusual and Reiko's just Huh That's True, it was killing me. Some eagle-eyed analysis from Masked Rider Ryuki! Thank you for spelling it out for those of us watching at home!) It'll likely move that plot more into the Paranormal Investigator genre, so Reiko might get more of a shot of interacting in the main story. Into that idea, for sure.

This episode, I think it was decent. It had a lot to overcome with me from the last episode, and I think it largely steered out of the skid. Some fun stuff to enjoy, and we got some much needed context and backstory for Ren and Yui. Not my favorite Ryuki story, though, and I'm glad to move on from it.

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ryuki/ryuki12c.png
https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ryuki/ryuki12d.png

In all honesty, Ren left such a bad first impression on me that these episodes did not make me sympathise with him. If anything, it made me hate this show more for not introducing these elements sooner. I could understand delaying it if REN was a villain, but he’s touted as one of the main protagonists. It strikes me less as a humanisation for an underdeveloped character and more of a “too little, too late” example.

I can see that. The broad strokes, that he's fighting to save someone he cares about, I think we all figured that out already. It's not a huge revelation or anything, so if you aren't a fan of his this story doesn't really alter the equation.

I think it maybe does a good job of re-emphasizing some stuff, of dialing up the conflict inherent in the premise of contract monsters. Like, Shinji's distrust of Ren, or his suspicion of Ren's monster, I think that becomes a lot more believable now.

But, still, you'll not get a ton of push back from me if you felt like the way the show conveyed Ren's origin and motivation was underwhelming. It definitely could've been better.

Yes. Good. Do more of this.

No, Die, you're supposed to be describing things that are boring about the episode there. "Guy flashing his trading card at things like his life depends on it... because it does" is just plain wonderful imagery. That sort of surreal mix of stupidity of horror is classic Rider goodness. Taking an absurd idea and completely committing to it.

Oh, and yeah, the amnesia episodes. Again, definitely not perfect, but I do think they come together well enough when all is said and done. If you still have any doubts about whether these episodes were worth the time spent, just remember: at least Kobayashi was nice enough to let you see all this backstory before episode 40. :p

I mean, me mentioning the most bonkers, memorable part of Ejima's appearance, that's by design! What, I'm going to not be into someone terrifying a monster into submission with a trading card? Hell yes I'm going to be into that. It's just, it's in service of a guy who the show didn't really put any work into. No one active in the cast knew anything about him other than he took a photo with Secret Science Club, and he doesn't do more than make Yui feel bad about a thing she already felt bad about. His gimmick is great, but his death didn't really make me feel anything.

And next, episode 13. That one person I think was important in Ryuki finally debuts.

Yeah, I...

Man, I don't know when I'm going to be watching that. I'm sort-of not doing great with emotions right now.

I'm a small business owner in Chicago, and my governor just told me I have to shut down my business for the next seventeen days at a minimum. (Strangely, "comic book shop" was not designated an essential business. Tell that to the dude who's outside my store first thing every Wednesday for Spider-Man comics, Pritzker!) The guidance from the city makes it unclear what I can do to support my customers and generate any revenue. Can I go in to pack up books for USPS delivery? Unclear. Can I go in to ring up books for curbside pickup? Unclear, but looking like a no. Can I get in a car to drop off shipments outside customers' houses? Unclear. In the meantime, I've got leases on two locations to pay, bills coming pretty goddamn steady from suppliers for standing orders placed months ago, and my own personal expenses to worry about. I'm low-key freaking out right now. I'm trying to watch a funny episode of Better Call Saul (Kim's impression of Kevin is Emmy material) and I have to keep stopping it every commercial break because I'm too anxious to enjoy it.

Like, I legitimately don't know how my business survives this. There're promises of loans, but I'm not sure if we'll qualify, I'm not sure if they'll be enough, and I'm not sure how we'll be able to pay them back with long-term reductions in walk-in traffic and everyone in America being broke. It's a kind of stress I've never known in the twelve years I've owned a business.

So, yeah, unfortunately, real hard to take my mind off of things and have fun with Kamen Rider right now. It should feel like an escape, but as my financial reality is crumbling with a speed hitherto unimagined, it's a little distracting. I don't know. I'm remembering Chris Onstad, creator of the comic strip Achewood, explaining why strips would be going on hiatus while his family moved: "There would be comics about crying." Like, man, I don't know if you want to read my thoughts on Ryuki right now. It would maybe be disappointing.

But, like, that's right this minute. Probably ain't going to be another Ryuki write-up tonight, is the short version. I'll try for tomorrow, if my anxiety abates. If I don't get around to it for another few days, it's because I just couldn't get to a space to really process anything else.

It's rough out there, y'all. Take care of yourselves, stay safe, and try to take your mind off of things if you can. Sorry this thread can't do that right now.

Nah, don't force yourself or feel pressured to post a new review right away. Take your time. :rock:

Yeah, you absolutely do not need to apologize for being a bit distracted right now. I think that's pretty understandable.

These threads need to be fun for you before they need to be fun for us. Take as long as you need, man. We'll still be here when you're feeling up to it again.

Damn man, I'm so sorry. This whole lock-down quarantine situation is so fucked up. Right now its seems to be hurting a lot more people than the virus is.

That whole situation is more screwed up than a Rider War, so I don't think anyone would blame you for taking a break to either focus on work and/or doing something that'll be more effective for your nerves. This is just a silly forum about bugmen (dragonmen and batmen and minotaurmen right now?) at the end of the day, so don't go fretting about it!

Thanks, gang. It's mostly that I like watching Kamen Rider and talking about it, so having the real world encroach on that is... it's like there's no refuge. It sucks to not be able to lose myself a bit in entertainment.

But! It's temporary, that feeling. Things seem insurmountable, you pick away at them a bit, try and make plans, shit gets a bit more manageable. We'll take what steps we can, but, y'know, it's a viral outbreak. A ton of this is out of anyone's hands.

Feeling a little better after making some plans of action with my friend Patrick, the stores' other owner. Feel like we're doing as much triage as we can, hoping to weather the storm. Not optimistic, exactly, but things feel slightly less impossible. Think I can find my way to some Ryuki tomorrow night. I hope! I didn't get through those last two episodes to quit now.

Like I said before, Shinji has to return the favor with all of his friends' loyalty (even Ren) in episode 10 against Kitaoka, this time to Ren, now it's time to show his loyalty to Ren. This one's actually what I talked about the previous episode (corresponding to the Ren gag), as a countermeasure to Ren's reckless actions. This time Yui gotta believe Shinji that his injuries aren't monster attacks.

Also JDM cars chasing them! Nissan Skyline GTS Type M (R32) and Nissan Silvia S13. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQyQ46EU...jpg&name=small

Well it's not more about the lab, but more about Shiro (seemingly the main villain as seen in previous episode, and that he's scientific), what he's done like making Eri in coma (Ren's main drive in Rider War, which would make sense later in context of the war for him regarding Eri), and causes problem to others (Yui's main drive, her idol being an evildoer, also others being troubled as well esp. Shinji and Ren). A big irony of Ren, having to work with the very monster that causes his problem aka Darkwing. Ren IS truly self-destructive person (especially to do something to those he loves), not only in previous episode where he's reckless to go to places despite his injury, but also on where he tortures himself to work with Darkwing, especially when he summons him.

And no Yui doesn't have actual guilt (other than people going "ONORE YUI"), it's just her self-blaming tendency (comes within a good-natured person) as Shiro was implied to create catastrophic events for her sake "If only I didn't exist the others wouldn't be this troubled".

I mean I'm talking about this logically. Ren and Shinji (chasing him) left Atori in previous episode by their bikes. No way Yui can chase after them without any kind of transportation (Ren won't take her as he forgot about her and Shinji's bike is only 1 seater), she even has to take a cab (
m̶e̶a̶n̶s̶ ̶a̶l̶t̶h̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶K̶i̶t̶a̶o̶k̶a̶ ̶l̶e̶v̶e̶l̶ ̶s̶h̶e̶'̶s̶ ̶s̶t̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶r̶i̶c̶h̶ ̶a̶f̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶t̶a̶k̶e̶ ̶a̶ ̶c̶a̶b̶ ̶w̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶J̶a̶p̶a̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶v̶e̶r̶y̶ ̶e̶x̶p̶e̶n̶s̶i̶v̶e̶) to go anywhere, and obviously cabs won't immediately appear when you need it, they appear random.

Though I don't think Ren cares about knowing about the Ejima Laboratory events, he only wants to win the Rider War (and he's done his objective, regaining his memories), while Yui wants to stop it....like Shinji, only that she has family relation with the person behind it unlike him.

Ejima isn't meant to be a major character, just to show a consequence of Shiro's actions. Ejima is on the same page as Eri and Nakamura (they were on same lab after all), as the survivor of Shiro's actions. Also btw, keep remembering Nakamura, because for later part of the show... And what makes you worked up of "pointing a Yu-Gi-Oh card at reflective surfaces"? That's the Seal card, the same card Shinji ripped up at episode 2. Also lowkey Nakamura seems as abrasive and violent as Ren. And you're selfish to only think about fixing what happened to your clique, ignoring someone's pleas to prevent that disaster to escalate even further. It's like criticizing Shinji for not being able to prevent a death of a little girl's mom in ep. 2 where then he tried to prevent more of that deaths by becoming a Rider.

ORE (as for Reiko) seems to be the only one trying to investigate the disappearences, without any help of those knowing about Rider stuff (like the main trio) so, ofc they gotta need more clues to be a help to citizens, who are skeptical about the disappearences. The train conductor must trust Reiko's explanation as he has experienced that, unlike the other skeptical, and it would probably do something if Reiko asks for the train conductor to help ORE in alerting the others too.

Many second Riders have this trait too tbh, but yeah I do think Ren is a thug, with his violence and temper, just that he's a loner instead of travelling in a gang. Well Yui was there to be his moral compass... (like Goro to Kitaoka), even breaking a public glass.

Not actually important, but an extreme rarity in Ryuki that they stand out.

I guess I'm reading "this is all my fault, they're right" as a kind of guilt? Rightly or wrongly, Yui seems pretty crushed by Ejima and Library Man's accusations. I gotta think that, in the short term, she's going internalize that as All My Fault, and feel guilty for the consequences other have suffered due to Shiro's actions.

I'm going to assume that, in general, Ren is none too pleased with Shiro's actions to date, including Secret Science Club. And, for Yui, I'm taking her previous reaction to being accused by two strangers of bringing doom upon the world as landing somewhere between Embarrassed and Horrified. Either way, it's at the very least an awkward conversation between Yui and Ren, and it could've been a good scene to watch.

That one was a joke. Ejima... I just felt like he didn't really get to do enough, be enough. It's maybe asking too much of any show, but I appreciate it when two-episode characters get to have a little something to them, add more to the plot than Hit Your Mark and Deliver The Exposition. Ejima, he looked cool, and him brandishing a trading card like a crucifix is a great goddamn image, but his character is just a name and other people's recollections. I thought they could've done more, considering he's in two whole episodes.

I just thought the scene with the two of them was hilarious. The train conductor has this thing of, like, it just occurring to him that maybe it's slightly unusual for three dozen people to disappear off of a moving train, like it's nothing more than a funny anecdote. And Reiko's reaction is similarly bonkers, treating the conductor's admission that it's not a typical day on the ol' train-line as, like, huh, weird, a real head-scratcher. There's a baffling sense of boredom to the performance, like it's not three dozen human beings who are probably dead.

Oh, that time I took your phrase "Yui's guilt" and "Yui silently hiding her guilt" as you saying she did an actual mistake and felt bad for it (as in the phrase example "Both suspects admitted their guilt to the police"). And I said once again, you should remember Nakamura, like how you should remember Masamune in Ex-Aid when he only appeared as a minor in ep. 12.

Dunno if I'm right or not about this but my take is that Ren's obviously not pleased because Shiro's the one responsible to send his beloved Eri into coma (Ren has immense care for loved ones), but probably not really about Shiro's other actions, as his main concern is winning the war for Eri, essentially following and playing right into Shiro's hands. Where Yui's not pleased for different reasons, that she just felt bad to the others, to the victims, who are suffering or dying like this, and she wants to make things right; fix what already happened and prevent this tragedy from spreading further (including...Shinji and Ren facing each other someday, now head injury, what's worse next?), which would hinder Shiro's doing.

Awkward conversation? Sure! Probably for the contrasts. But I feel that Ren doing a research for answers there won't help his fighting and his goal, or may even deprive him of it (esp. when Shiro assumes that he may try to defuse the game).

One of the lucky to possess a Seal card.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQyPyJuU...g&name=360x360https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQyPyJxU...g&name=360x360

What's known about him is that he's the one running "Secret Science Club" and did an experiment with Shiro but became his victim as well....I guess you want to make use of his professor knowledge and/or give more knowledge about the experiment (which he may not know either as a victim)?

Unfortunately this funny moment that comes from people acting ordinary isn't as known as RON! She's still hiding the bizzare moment towards the train conductor, despite it being a common event. Probably because giving explanation or not won't do any good. They gotta believe Shimada this time because she's half right for "alien abduction", for an environment that doesn't know at all about the fantasy elements in their world.

Which, yeah, there's a chance that Yui could've launched into a tearful This Is All My Fault, and you're wondering if Ren's going to be angry, or if he's going to be comforting, but then he just goes What's Done Is Done and walks out of the scene. There are so many fun options to have those two characters process the climax of this episode, and maybe it'll be addressed in future episodes, but I thought it was disappointing that the two of them didn't really get a scene about it.

He must've opened so many packs of Advent Cards to get that one. It's a Super Rare! They only show up once per case! That's every 180 packs! I've got to think that the search for the Seal card is what drove him crazy, just discarding so many duplicate Ryuki Sword Vent and Scissors Guard Vent cards. Just so many goddamn commons! I mean, he could maybe proxy with them, but that'd only work with casual monsters. No tourney monster is going to let him get away with that.

Yeah, it's maybe a little nit-picky. I guess I wanted him to have more dialogue, to feel like more than an inevitable monster victim. He's clearly got some spark to him, in that I just spent a paragraph concocting a headcanon wherein he's an obsessive TCG collector in a world where trading cards can actually save you from monsters, but he doesn't really interact with the cast in any compelling way, aside from dropping dead and guilting Yui. Like, I think Library Man executed on what Ejima added in a more interesting way, give or take a meme-worthy card brandishment. Library Man got to have a little scene with Yui, where the conversation escalates from her hopeful questioning to his cruel accusations. There's meat to the scene. With Ejima, all the interesting stuff happens with him in isolation, keeping his fun stuff from playing out with/for the rest of the cast.

It's... it's not like it really bugged me, or that I'm mad at the show for how they used Ejima. It's more that there's really not that much (non-TCG) stuff that's worth talking about with him. There's no real arc to his story. I didn't mean to, like, harangue the show about it. It's mostly that he doesn't contribute as much to the story as it seemed like he could've.

I mean, I love Yorgos Lanthimos films (and, yes, spelled it correctly on the first try), so people saying insane things in monotone ways, everyone sounding like they've been lobotomized, anti-comedy creeping out of the edges, I am so into that. I'm criticizing it a little because Reiko scenes aren't usually that.. not dumb, but basic? But I was 100% ironically entertained by that scene. Laughed real hard at it.

MASKED RIDER RYUKI EPISODE 13

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ryuki/ryuki13a.png

Feeling back in the zone for watching Ryuki, and it's nice to get to watch one as fun as this episode. Really getting back in a good groove, this show.

The direction on this one, man, worth calling out. A lot of very fun, different ways of staging scenes and transitions. Some don't completely work (that pre-dinner sequence, when it's half-faces and flashes of paintings, a little too avant-garde), but there's a bunch of fun new looks in this episode. The shots of Ren biking at night, there's this mix of speed and isolation and freedom and doubt, him processing what he needs to do alongside the bonds he's inadvertently formed. All of the pre-fight stuff with Ren and Kamen Rider Quarter, so pretty. (They want better names, they can say them on the TV show. Look, what is up with this show forgetting to name new Riders? We just now get someone calling Kitaoka "Zolda", like that's a thing anyone ever said on this show before, and now this guy doesn't even get to introduce himself to Ren. Big pet peeve of mine.) Those shots, with them not quite in each other's frame, spotlighting how incompatible their views are, how they can't convince one another of their perspective, they're doing such great work visually. It's all epic storytelling decisions, adding weight and gravity to sequences that could come off lacking momentum (Ren does not seem super engaged in anything lately) or a little rote. As it is, that stuff sparks, creating some of the most enjoyable parts of Ryuki yet.

And, obviously, some of that is down to the return of Goro and Kamen Rider Scumbag himself, Kitaoka. That shit, with Kitaoka being a creep to Reiko and her somehow managing not to roll her eyes completely out of her skull, and Shinji exposing Goro's weakness as a whistler (he's so bad at it!) before confusing Goro for Zolda, it's nearly perfect. The only that'd make it better is if it never ended, but we live in an imperfect world. I've made my peace with it.

The Kitaoka stuff, it's hilarious, but it ties into the Knight/Quarter stuff, where everything's about both the sad inevitability of combat (Ryuki, Quarter), and the death of idealism that comes with participating in Rider Battles (Knight, Zolda). It's neat to pair those that way, with Knight/Quarter feeling built around brooding archetypes, while Ryuki/Zolda have a more emotional, hot-blooded take on things. It's a neat idea for them to explore, and I like how there currently seem to be two bad sides and no good sides. Refusing to fight is untenable, but welcoming carnage is inhuman. It's a very complex bit of business they're mining, and I'm thrilled to see smart, funny Masked Rider Ryuki is happening again.

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ryuki/ryuki13b.png

I don't recall when they say his name, so I'll let you know it's Raia. He's a really interesting guy. Much more complex a character than poor Scissors. And as more Riders get involved in the war, the plot gets better and better

Kamen Rider Quarter it is!

Man, I dug Quarter's whole thing in this. I love the idea of someone who believes in the unerring accuracy of fate specifically so he can try and alter it. It's like believing in the impossible weight of a boulder in order to motivate you into lifting it. That is such a strong, intriguing premise. And it just, it provides so much clarity to what's happening in this story. Really smart writing with Quarter.

I don't remember the episode by episode happenings, so trying to figure out who the heck 'Quarter' is through context is like solving a mystery of it's own! Doesn't he still have a real human name though.

Tezuka. His name is Tezuka.

You’re getting to a fun part of the show, Die. A lot more Riders are going to start showing up and not dying after only two episodes.

For dinner scene, Shinji is portrayed as a good cook, I dunno why, Shinji's cooking skills are never discussed at all among the fandom. As a Rider, Ren doesn't want to get too close to others, as it seems by previous episodes, being a Rider in this series means detaching your humanity and going to psychopath territory (a stark opposite to traditional Riders!), especially one of them being another Rider that he should defeat. It's a shame that Ren wouldn't taste Shinji's cook, I want Ren to (be forced to) appreciate something about Shinji, for once, as the tongue never lies.

And Raia, for once, there's another morally upright Rider after a bunch of psychos. Another one who also wants to stop the fighting. Ren, someone who thinks goodness is naive (because he doesn't care much about others) must be internally banging his head after meeting certain one like that before, even at the beginning he thinks he's another psycho who only wants to challenge him to fight. I absolutely hate that Rider Time Ryuki (written by Inoue), turned him into yet another villanous (gay) Rider.

Yeah, Raia didn't introduce himself to Ren, but he asks Ren that he didn't introduce himself either??! Probably you should introduce yourself first for that! (though Ren wouldn't care either way, all Riders are just obstacles for Eri) As for Rider names like Raia, I already gotten them from video games like PS1 Ryuki so....

Even before Yui calling Kitaoka Zolda here, at ep. 3, Ren immediately refers to Shinji as Ryuki after contracting Dragreder, how do they both and later others know the Rider names?

The one case where, the male chasing after a female and got continuously rejected is someone perfect; charming attitude, good-looking, intelligent, rich, and famous, instead of a loser or average male. I guess douchebag attitude is not for everyone here as Reiko can attest.

And fuck you phone signal, creating unintentional miscommunitation, Shinji mistakes Yui's answer for "that lawyer's ..." due to signal making him thinking she hasn't finished her sentence, like continuing with "that lawyer's servant" or something. Now other than horrible signal, as I said before, Goro is a complete Rider material with his fighting skills AND also a henshin pose, which Shinji thinks so based on that 2.

I wonder Goro not responding to Shinji's speech was him being cold and uncaring (right after he compliments Shinji), or just him being confused (as he's not a Rider, but his master is, or he didn't know yet his master is a Rider?). And so it seems Goro isn't perfect skill wise, like whistling, when he does everything perfectly before, at least everything Kitaoka needs. I also wonder why Yui tried to prevent Ren fighting Zolda (she knows he's a rotten person and she's hostile to him in ep. 10, also Scissors in ep. 6 that Ren lied to her), sure we know that an encounter with him gave Ren head injury but, a monster can also give that technically, and him and Shinji both numerous times gets injured from monster fights.

How are Ryuki and Raia "no good sides"? And they should meet, ASAP.

It's also shown in this episode that Rider's Final Vents can be held back to not kill someone like Raia, only to show how painful and pointless fighting is. And probably even more painful to Knight that a pacifist, who tried to hold back not to kill his opponent, can still had him on ropes. Knight also prepares his Final Vent, and Raia somehow treats this move as reckless, dunno why.

But I have to say Raia's Final Vent is the most bland in the series, like he just rides on Evildiver and rams the enemy. My problem is that, what's the difference from Evildiver actual attack? Evildiver attacks by ramming itself to its enemy, the Final Vent also rams itself to its enemy only with Raia riding on it, but Raia didn't make a contact at all to the enemy. Do they treat Raia riding Evildiver as mass increase and make Evildiver ramming the enemy gave more force even if Raia doesn't make a contact to enemy?

And now Shinji seemingly committing his first murder here! But obviously unintentional, like Kouta and Sento. And he thinks it's Goro he murdered!

This shot between Raia and Knight is also gold. I feel bad here for someone with a fiancee here.
https://oi1301.photobucket.com/album...psvglmjmbn.png

Yeah, more love for morally upright characters! Usually they're dismissed as flat and boring characters while evil ones (well you compared him to Scissors) are considered interesting.

Not for another episode or two he doesn't! I even found it worth commenting on:

Miyuki's not exactly a master of social graces!

The Rider name thing, though, honestly I just think it's adorable how little the show cares? Everybody gets their name mentioned at least once eventually, but it's just not something that gets any priority. Which I think is great in that it lets you know just how important the human drama is. Again, going back to the contrast with the previous two shows, where the main Riders' names held story significance and got brought up constantly, here Ren is just like "oh you've got a dragon or whatever. I guess you can be called Ryuki for the five seconds before I kill you". It's so low effort and I love it.

Tezuka was definitely my favourite character as I was watching the show, and he probably still is. I'm much more into characters who are like, y'know, actually good people; and it's interesting seeing him as a contrast to Shinji.

I remember at the time Tezuka's debut was sort of a big deal amongst fans of tokusatsu. This is because Hassei Takano who plays Tezuka already made a name for himself in the tokusatsu genre as Fujimiya/Ultraman Agul from Ultraman Gaia in 1998. So it was cool to see him expand his toku credentials by appearing as a Kamen Rider next.

Then he went played Nigou in the First and the Next

I love Raia, he's great.

Yep that too.

I'm getting Scissors flashbacks here! I spend a minute talking about some neat new Rider, go to bed, and wake up to folks being very excited about the new Rider. I think that's great. I think it's super encouraging, as a fan, that the Kamen Rider franchise has so many compelling characters in it. Something to keep looking forward to!

I get it, though, with Quarter. He's exceptionally fully-formed in his first appearance. Right away you get a sense of how he's going to fit into the narrative, you get to see him try and win over his opposite number, you get his human side and his Rider identity and he just... he immediately feels like he belongs in this show, that he's somehow been a part of the fabric of it for the last twelve episodes and those scenes just kept getting cut.

And the performance is strong, too, this messianic empathy mixed with world-weariness, someone who's trying and failing to make a difference. It's all very evocative, full of little ideas I can't stop thinking about.

He's also the first in a long line of Riders to not be some sort of asshole -- Scissors was a straight up murderer, Knight is aloofiest aloof lone wolf ever and Kitaoka is... well. Kitaoka. So having a Rider that's actually somewhat heroic is strangely a break from the usual.

Yeah, and (I've got to type this in the three minutes before my laundry needs to move to the dryer) I think the show did a good job of differentiating his drive to avoid Rider conflict with Shinji's. Shinji is a lot more Bull In A China Shop, barging into situations to declare what's right and what's wrong. It can come off abrasive, despite his heart being in the right place. Quarter, there's still a bit of that thing where he's inserting himself into a situation without much regard for boundaries, but it's in a way where he's trying to forge a connection, tell a stranger that he gets them, he sees them, and he wants to help them. Which, y'know, would be a weird thing for a stranger to tell you, and I can definitely see why Knight's answer to There Is A Better Way To Kamen Rider would be SWORD VENT TO FACE. (That's three minutes! Laundry time!)

Yeah, this is probably going to happen at least one more time. Lotta good Riders in this show!

Man, and you're saying that about them after one episode, and before they've even met. The way Shinji and Tezuka are similar without at all being the same is absolutely fantastic, and you've only scratched the surface so far.

The show does this great thing of contrasting them by running them, separately, through the exact same conflict. They don't have to give a thesis statement to each other about their own But Why Heroism, because we get to see how they live those virtues. It's show, don't tell, and I always love it when shows can deliver that.

MASKED RIDER RYUKI EPISODE 14

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ryuki/ryuki14a.png

Visually, this is another killer episode. Tonally, uh... it takes some big chances.

There's once again a lot to recommend about how this one was blocked and shot. It's some little stuff, like the reflection of Darkwing in the glass door that Ren walks through in the building lobby, and some big stuff, like the Knight emblem (I think) burning on the lantern or literally all of Shinji's Dark Night Of The Soul. That whole sequence, of Shinji just losing his sense of self when he thinks he killed Zolda, it's a really nice collage of effects, heightening the disorientation Shinji feels, rendering both him and the viewer adrift. It's... this whole episode is full of shots and angles and edits that solidify everything the story's trying to do and say. Looks great, and does an amazing job. My compliments to the director!

It's just, the setup for this episode is asking a lot of the viewer. Maybe too much! In order for both halves of this story to work, you have to a) empathize with Shinji, feel his despair as he's taken a life, something he swore he'd never do, and b) know that he's being tricked by Kitaoka and think it's hilarious. That's a huge ask of a storyteller. If you care too much for Shinji, every cutaway to Kitaoka gloating over his deception is like a knife in the heart. Similarly, if you don't care about Shinji enough, every sequence of Shinji giving up, longing for death, that shit is laugh out loud funny. So, like, you've got to care about Shinji just enough to feel his pain, but still be able to laugh at how melodramatic Kitaoka's fake mourning is. I don't... I don't know if the episode totally lands that plane. I think it works better in the second half, where we get to see Shinji's pain separate from the deception. (If you're asking me to not cackle like an asshole when Kitaoka is crying fake tears and exclaiming that even he, a brilliant attorney, couldn't frame Shinji for this murder, I feel like we don't know each other at all.) The resolution, with Shinji being so glad that Goro's alive and so glad he didn't murder him, it's very sweet and welcome. I like that Shinji's so caring that he didn't think to want to murder Kitaoka (reasonable!) until after he was relieved that Goro was alive. Like, some of it's the relief that he's not a murderer, but a lot of it is that a human being is alive. That's very sweet. But I'm not sure if the beginning part of the story, the shell-shocked Shinji stuff, I'm not sure that works as well as the conclusion. Just a little hard to forget that Kitaoka is (beautifully, hilariously, gloriously) tricking him.

So great to have Kitaoka back, though, and I love how his plan is yet again Maybe Shinji Will Get Eaten By His Monster. It's kind-of a thing running through this episode, that these dudes who like to paint themselves as killers, ready to go all pro ice on another Rider, they maybe don't actually have the stomach for it. Kitaoka keeps trying to get Dragreder to finish Shinji off, and Quarter (not in this one a lot!) sort-of has Ren's number re: probably not a killer. Like, Ren has that cool exterior, the motorcycle and the black leather and the scowl, and he's constantly telling people It's Kill Or Be Killed, but, y'know, sort-of hasn't walked that walk yet. Seems like a lot of big talk, thus far. Even Scissors, who's the only Rider yet to get killed onscreen, his contract monster is really the one who finishes him off. Ren puts Scissors in that position, arguably, but he doesn't actually kill him. Could Ren really kill someone? I like that the show leaves that question hanging. It's cool to have Ren's version of himself be challenged by Yui and Shinji's version of him, their belief maybe overcoming his self-deception.

Great story across this two-parter. The Kitaoka/Reiko/Goro stuff is relentlessly hilarious (I would 100% put up that 24" x 36" picture Kitaoka sends Reiko, it's magnificent), the Shinji despair stuff gets where it needs to by the end of the episode, Quarter is awesome, and it's a great dive into the stakes of the Riders fighting each other, how their dedication to winning is maybe more boastful than they'd want people to know, or what the consequences might be for trying not to fight. There're four Riders in this story, and the fact that they each have individual viewpoints, goals, limits, it's really fun to watch.

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ryuki/ryuki14b.png

Whaheyyyyy, he finally graduated from Scumbag to His Actual Name! Celebratory cheer!


On one hand, I love that I'm yet again finding more good things to say about Ryuki. On the other hand, man, this is gonna be a long month or two of Fish basically taunting me with the same message over and over, huh? :p


Either way, yes: what I love about this is that somehow the creative team perfectly creates this sense of a ruthless, everyone-for-himself killing game with no holding back... and yet simultaneously are able to perfectly portray the characters as not quite up for it as you said. Usually in cases like this one of those would work really well, and I'd congratulate the writers on it; but then sadly have to say that it unfortunately contradicts the other and they really should have just gone with one or the other. But Ryuki nails them both! It's so strange yet so fantastic and I just have to commend it.

Zolda, it was really just a case of a) Zolda is not as cool a name as Knight or Scissors (the best name!), and b) they hadn't really said it on the show. Once they say someone's name on the show, and I can remember it, I try to use it for simplicity's sake. No sense being confusing if I can avoid it.

....that said, Raia? No thanks, hard pass, Kamen Rider Quarter forever.

Other people've mentioned it, but this story really lays out the advantages of the shades of grey the show is painting with, story-wise. Maybe it's just watching society collapse around me in real time whenever I read the news these last few days, but Ryuki's playing the There Are No Good Choices card a lot so far. There's this real sense that show isn't explicitly judging Ren or Kitaoka any more than it's judging Quarter or Shinji. Things like Hope and Survival and Desire and Freedom, these things transcend "good" and "evil". It's more fulfilling, more complex if a show can grapple with competing wants and needs, rather than simplistic morality. There's a lot more stories you can tell if everyone's some degree of screwed.

Well it won't be if you ruin the fun by calling me out on it! No. Bad. Do less of that.

In all seriousness, though, I just sincerely hope this thread continues to have the effect of getting you to realize you like Ryuki more than you thought, because you've said before Kobayashi shows have had a tendency to become your favorites only after some distance.

And the thing is, I totally get that. Not only did it take me way too long to realize just how special OOO is, but reading your post after you finished Ryuki about how maybe she just hadn't figured out her style yet, which I instinctively disagreed with, got me thinking back on her first head writer credit, Gingaman, a show that left me underwhelmed enough when I had finished watching it, I think I called it my least favorite Sentai.

Having that occasion to think back on the kinds of characters in that show, and the way their flaws and conflicts were constructed, made me realize just how much of that identity was there right away. The thing that I think most defines Kobayashi's tokusatsu work, besides the humanity anyway (that was there too though), is how she loves to subvert normal aspects of the genre, without necessarily being overly critical or deconstructive, but still asking the viewer to consider things they might not have thought of. And Gingaman, I realize now, was a Showa throwback that had plots that occasionally played out in ways almost antithetical to how a Showa series would handle them.

So everything that makes her a great writer, I mean, I still haven't seen Timeranger, but I'm pretty sure even by Ryuki, she knew the kind of stories she wanted to write.

I won't blame you if you don't internalize this information right away (I didn't start remembering director names myself until only like a year ago), but for the record, 13 and 14 were by Ryuuta Tasaki, an insanely prolific director for almost the entire Heisei era. You have seen/are seeing/will see his work a ton. I'm not sure he has a particular "thing" the way some others do, but he's certainly got plenty of talent.

It's worth noting his first work on Rider was Agito's premiere, which prompted you to specifically comment on how much nicer it looked than a lot of Kuuga. That stylish shot of Shouichi and Ryou brushing past each other? That was him.

Hey, how about even more trivia? According to Ryuki's Japanese Wikpedia page (which I'm loosely summarizing here), when the show was in the planning phase, the television station apparently specifically requested a show that had very clearly defined heroes and villains, in an attempt to teach children the true meaning of justice, in response to the 9/11 attacks.

The thing is, producer Shinichirou Shirakura didn't go along with it, realizing that going that direction would basically be saying "the justice you kids believe in is fake, and we know what real justice is", which would just be problematic. He then proceeded to expand on Agito's theme of exploring that everybody has their own idea of what's right, this time tossing in a bunch of extra Riders so that, unlike Agito, viewers couldn't simply come to the conclusion that "Kamen Rider is right".

At least I'm pretty sure I'm reading all that correctly? Someone correct me if I'm wrong. This is all news to me too (I only went and checked because I remember hearing the 9/11 thing once), but it does seemingly confirm what I've suspected forever, that Ryuki was the first Heisei show to call the Riders "Kamen Rider" in-series specifically because it wanted viewers to think about what that meant.