No need to apologise, it's notoriously difficult to gage nuance on the internet. I saw an article somewhere about a man who had a room in his house where no technology dating from after the year 1994 was allowed to be used, and I think I'd be pretty much be okay with that.

Ah, but we're distracting Kamen Rider Die from this grand Kiva re-watch, and I can't risk derailing this thread as I am literally sitting on my hands until mention of later episodes occurs, so I'll be quiet now and try to stay on topic. :p

Dark Necrom P? That's unfair criticism, IMO. Alia's Rider form is well, pink version of Necrom, and it had identical stats. AFAIK, iirc (this can be a flak for Rider series) only the main Riders and sometimes secondary Riders got much needed upgrade against escalating threats, and only those Riders can face them, and Dark Necrom P was fighting Ganmaizers, they're the gods of Ghost, and only Ghost Mugen can deal with them.

You refer to Malcolm as the one portrayed by Kenji Matsuda (Zanki's actor)? Well name's Jiro, and he's a regular at Mal d'Amour, not the owner (Akira Kido, the one with glasses), and there's more surprise to him. And well, I'm not the one to glamorize majority vs minority (better not happen in anyone), that ironically compared to the others who talk about Kiva being sexist, you talk about totally opposite thing of "men = useless, women = level-headed" (but I don't condone bias as well, I can't guess if this is an apologist view for Kiva as it's an Inoue-written show..), though well, I don't know, you said here that "men = useless, women = level-headed", but your complaint below, about misbehaving men, like Nago being controlling, seems to contradict this view that, it's likely (CMIIW) actually one of the "sexist treatments of women" aspects in Kiva that people talk about. And of course Wataru will be the only one to realize his mistake, his closed-off traits aren't morally negative traits like Takumi's, he's the usual sweet toku hero.... and from what I know in a good number of media, I feel like most of the shy types doubled as the kindhearted and gentle type as well due to shy meaning they won't want to cause trouble for instance.

Dunno if you don't take into account much for some people say about Nago before (not only me, there's also someone saying he's the Kusaka of this show) to avoid spoilers, but here we are, Nago's true nature is revealed here. Nago outwardly has knight in shining armor persona, along with that big dad energy, but Nago's actually a self-righteous punisher inside "God is my ally". Nago is, as they said, a less hateful version of Kusaka, and Kusaka's trait is also his charm facade, and again, CMIIW, but Nago also utilizes that here as his manipulation aspect to gashlight others so that they will look up to Nago better. Later he also has the ego to force Wataru praise Nago out loud, this must be another indicator for what he did to Megumi. Even his Rider name, Ixa, is also the 3 last letter of "Kaixa"! You cannot spell Kaixa without Ixa.

Wataru being easily misled is already established before btw, he's a doormat and pushover, he subscribes to newspapers he don't really need because he doesn't like refusing others. But the one thing that makes it worse isn't Nago, but Megumi's fan...gire, who asks inappropriate things for Wataru who as a pushover he easily complies. I don't think that the situation will be worse (though it's obviously bad enough already) without that fan...gire, but it still gives upper hand to Nago to practice his self-righteous practice to Kiva.

Again, this is also has been established before. One of Otoya's ways of flirting with women, if they're already taken, is getting engaged in fisticuffs with them so that the women can be awed by the display and be convinced that Otoya can be their knight in shining armor. Otoya being good with fighting is also established for a very good reason (and him losing to Jiro is also established later). And for you refering to Wataru as lunatic... well, it's the bullying people like Wataru received in real life, getting constantly mocked as having autism, etc.

I appreciate Megumi taking all the blame into Nago, and despite her usual behavior to Wataru before, overlooks that one coming from him. Regarding Megumi as a model, I know there are already numerous these kind of model photos, but it irks me that the model will put their footwear on places like sofa (dunno to pin the blame on Megumi or the crew though...). Otoya feels that he's doing any women a favor, but he just actually cut the line for Yuri, to pay the phone... but use the phone for his needs. And to call on Otoya's house... so did Yuri just act hostile to a stranger instead of Otoya there? I can't exactly measure the height of the fence Shizuka is standing:
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...7166/fence.png
But does Shizuka also... have physical prowess like the other 2 ladies to jump in that height? Even I've never jumped on that height. Regarding her scene with Wataru, it also shows that Wataru is a hated person by the public, due to him (I expected Wataru to deliver... but he's actually one of the dreadful musician trope!) bringing odd ingredients for the violin, albeit I don't understand why the people talk about his smell (or if it's the subbing) instead...

The one with the glasses is the one I'm calling Malcolm. I mean, he named the restaurant after himself!

To paraphrase Inoue, Zanki is Zanki.

Well, I wasn't saying that as a) a universal opinion, or even b) the thesis of this series. It's pretty much just this episode, where the men in it accomplish basically nothing, while the women are the ones actively doing their jobs.

Nago making Wataru shout out his admiration is one of the most Kusaka moves around, and I enjoyed that little self-satisfied smirk Nago gave when he made the demand. Really nice touch.

(Also, uh... I was not 100% clear on if Nago was going to be Ixa. I love the enthusiasm everyone has for where Nago's story is headed, but if we can maybe keep the discussion to the things that've appeared on the show, that would be great. Thanks!)

Sure, but Wataru wouldn't even be in this position if it weren't for Nago, so I feel like Nago bears the bulk of the responsibility.

It's just nerves that cause Wataru to tank that performance. We've seen him play in privacy before; he's quite good! This was just a situation where he was trying to do too much, too fast. It's of a piece with everything else he's going through in this story, where he's letting other people (Shizuka, here) dictate the pace of his improvement. Going from The Ghost Boy to playing for two dozen people (in his home!) was way too much for him.

Also, I'd assume the smells of the stuff he's been using to create a finish for his violins have now permeated his clothes and his house. If you brew up a gigantic pot of fish stock (let alone dog poop), it's going to cling to everything.

I'm not blaming the suit, rather Alia herself. Same with Delta, it didn't just become weaker when Rina was using it. The skill level of the user relative to the opponent is an important factor. The first known user of Delta Gear, Saya, who is also a girl, fought efficiently with it for a long time before she developed side effects. Alia's skill level is better than Rina's for lasting more than like, 5 seconds, and I especially liked that cool parkour spin she did off the pillar! But it was foolish to fight Adel and the Ganmaizers on her own when she could have worked with Edith to come up with a strategy.

Although for the benefit of others, the "xa" part is pronounced as a "za" in Kaixa and a "kkusa" in IXA.

Haha, good one!

The best part of Kiva so far is probably Mamoru aka THE BOSS and Akira aka THE CAFE OWNER's constant fued over each other's body fat. :lolol

Forgot about that! Definitely a staple of Inoue's comedy writing; finding something so specific and so weird yet kind of normal and then making it so matter-of-fact. Fun quirk

There’s even a good deleted scene where in 86, Mamoru tells Kido he should lose weight, to which Kido refuses. Cut to 08, and Mamoru is bemoaning that despite them being the same age, Kido hasn’t aged a day in 22 years.

KAMEN RIDER KIVA EPISODE 06 - "REPLAY: EVERY PERSON GIVES OFF MUSIC”

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/kiva/kiva06a.png
https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/kiva/kiva06b.png

It's not a perfect episode (I don't know that the Sheep Fangire really comes together as a character; pretty weird that Nago just 100% bails on this story after Megumi gets captured), but it's exactly the episode I needed right now.

That middle section, you know? Where all the cross-cutting between timelines ceases to feel chaotic and instead becomes illuminative, a brilliant burning thread stretching across the decades to unify four people in the defense of life's eternal beauty. It's such a perfect moment, and it's an incredibly Inoue message.

The whole episode is, which is why I'm going to be raving about more than just that one scene. It's an episode that values empathy and resilience over aggression and selfishness. It's a story about the value in letting yourself be vulnerable, and how that forges a greater connection than bluster or dominance. The second you stop trying to control other people, that's when you can work with them to achieve something special.

But that middle section! It absolutely eradicated any misgivings the last episode gave me about our core cast. (I mean, not Nago. He's still a controlling jerk, but he's not really in this episode.) It's when Otoya and Yuri are tied up in 1986, while Wataru and Megumi are tied up in 2008.

The symmetry of it all is great, and worth all the contrivances of the plot. Wataru and Otoya have both failed in different ways to free the women that've been captured. Otoya went in swinging, and got knocked out in short order. (I guess he's only a good fighter when he has Yuri's gear?) Wataru went in with kindness, and got captured. (As unhelpful as that ended up being, I do appreciate that the show had Wataru offer himself as a trade. It's so innately decent that I can't for a second fault the show for doing it.) Both men mope over their losses, while both women find the strength to keep fighting. It's a great moment for both women.

And then it just keeps evolving.

As they're working to get out of their bonds, Yuri takes a minute to ask Otoyoa why he's so much That Way. Why is he expending so much energy on a woman that vocally despises him? (I mean, dude got captured by a decorative vampire monster trying to save her!) Otoya's been more subdued this episode, genuinely concerned for Yuri's safety, so we get to see him in a bit more of a contemplative mood. He says that everyone gives off music, and he likes the music she gives off. It's corny. It is so corny. It honestly brought tears to my eyes. He's so earnest when he says it to her, this way of seeing the world as a constant symphony, and her singular place in it for him. It's so vulnerable and sweet that Yuri can't help but smile to herself about it, even after Otoya ruins the moment by reaffirming his irritating need to woo her at every turn. It's a more human side to Otoya, a pure belief in everyone's value, as well as a deeper connection with Yuri. It's such a strong moment for these two characters.

And then it just keeps evolving.

Back in 2008, Wataru is trying to understand why Megumi does what she does, where she gets her strength. And she tells him about something her mother used to say, about everyone giving off music, and how she feels the need to protect that music, or something, she doesn't really know what it all means. It's a breezy explanation, so typical of Megumi (she's always got a different move!), that connects all four of our heroes. It's a thing Otoya said to Yuri, that Yuri said to Megumi, that Megumi said to Wataru. It's a theme that trickled down from a slimeball in 1986 to his heroic son in 2008. It's... I mean, again, tears in my eyes. It's a boy who needed direction, finding it in the words of his father, delivered by a woman he can look up to.

That little moment at the end was maybe as powerful for me. In a story where Wataru looks for masculine strength to provide structure and approval, he finds his heroism instead in Megumi; in vulnerability and empathy and recognition and perseverance and respect. When he plays his violin for her in the hospital, it's him acknowledging her place in his world, the value of her guidance. It's not him trying to play for a room full of strangers, proving to the world his fortitude. It's him appreciating someone who helped him, letting himself be weak around her to show his inner strength.

Honestly, everything with Wataru and Megumi and Yuri and Otoya was killer for me. The way both Yuri and Megumi never buckled under the weight of their predicament, always pushing forward towards success... such amazing characters. (And that musical cue that played over both of the Every Person Gives Off Music speeches! I love it so much! Best piece of music this show has done outside of the main theme!) All four of our main cast members had an exceptional outing here.

Not just them, though! We got to see Zanki go full Clawolve (that's the singular of Clawolves, I did not check the wiki) in a forest brawl that... I don't know, it was alright. I was already so dialed into the episode emotionally that any fight scenes felt almost tacky to me. It climaxed at that middle section, and the aftermath of that sequence was not super memorable to me. Part of it is that I like dialogue in my fight scenes, and neither Kiva nor Zanki like to chatter. (Kiva did make a fun little noise when he shattered the frozen Sheep Fangire, but that's not really dialogue.) The fights themselves are decent, and Kiva got a new Gun Form here, but there's just not enough character to the fight scenes for me. I like 'em better when they talk!

Otherwise, yeah, boy, real winner of an episode for me. It's sweet in all the ways the previous episode was sour, with the Yuri/Megumi bond becoming the scaffolding that steadies Wataru. It's an episode that lets Otoya be both a joke and an inspiration, which is a balance the other episodes have struggled with. (This was Otoya's best episode to date by a mile.) And, man, having Wataru learn a lesson about how to be a good man directly from his father, but via Yuri and Megumi... yeah, exactly the kind of story I wanted to see Kiva tell. Very happy tonight.

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/kiva/kiva06c.png

You mean Wolfen not Clawolve.

That doesn't sound right (he looks like way more of a Clawolve than a Wolfen) (also, what would the plural of Wolfen even be, Wolfens? Wolven? Wolvesen?) but, like I said, I didn't check the wiki. You can totally call him a Wolfen if you want! We all process art differently!

I love the fact that this thread has its own meta. :p

I found myself looking at the word Wolven and thinking that sounds like a band I would listen to—and a quick google later, yeah they absolutely are.

One of the hidden benefits of being an Inoue fan is that a lot of his worldbuilding never appears on the show -slash- he doesn't give two shits about sharing it with anyone outside his own brain, so fans get to headcanon together all of the connective tissue. It's a very fun "perk"!

Kiva?’s Gun form is known as Bassha Form (named for the onomatopoeia of something hitting the water). He obtains it by merging with a Merman (a one gender species based on the Creature from the Black Lagoon) named Ramon.

I’ll mention that Ramon’s true form is suit-acted by a woman named Naoki Kamio, who mostly plays short characters in Sentai shows. I’ll also mention that she’s not the only “normally only does Sentai” suit actor to show up in Kiva (as a trade-off, Eitoku was a regular over in Go-Onger as the monsters of the week)

I love this description of Inoue's creative process and don't want to admit at all to relating, hahah.

Yeah, I've been skimming back through all these episodes for the whole DJ gimmick I guess I'm doing now, and while I've unfortunately forgotten a ton about this show, including this scene, the second I saw it again, I immediately had this thought of "Oh, I think this is why I can't hate Kiva?" It's just such a nice sentimental scene, and a perfect of example of the show's dual timeline gimmick letting it do something special.

And for today's music pick, I have... not the one from that scene you specifically called out. Don't worry though, you'll get to hear it again. For now, everyone can enjoy Bassha Form's theme, which I can't describe beyond saying "it sounds cool."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErKhEWDAjq8

I guess it gives off the vibe of like, a perfect marksman tracking down a target or something? Again, I'm not good at describing why, but like, yeah, that's a good theme for Bassha Form. Cool suit as usual, by the way! You can maybe start to see why I leapt to that Kuuga comparison now that Kiva has a green form with a gun?

If I may point out a correction, Ramon is the merman.

Right, sorry. Kind of hard to tell them apart.

No problemo, it happens. Took me a few minutes to remember his name was Ramon to be honest. And I just remembered he was the kid in Den-O episodes 5 and 6.

Actually my point was about how ironic for you to say that, while you go on to talk about the misbehaving men, which is likely the part Kiva's refered as sexist.

Oh right, as I said in the beginning I didn't know much about Kiva other than its Riders (I mean the Rider suit and abilities, not the user or such except Wataru obviously), so a mistake, sorry. I thought the end of the episode will be Nago fighting Kiva, but actually it's not. Also forgot to say this in the beginning, but Kiva's name... a nod to Yuuji Kiba from Faiz? The katakana form of Kiva is Kiba (though it means 'fang' in this case)

This episode is all about parallels yeah, everything about 1986 and 2008 happens in complete... coincidence (... like some of the writer appeal here before as something that can be Faiz' statement or complaint?). Both moments being Yuri and Megumi being captured by Ryo Itoya, which got into Fangire fighting with Sheep Fangire, and then has an Otoya family member coming through their aid, but gets captured too, and using necklace to help themselves out. And regarding character, other than Sheep Fangire, Ryo Itoya, the Spider Fangire, iirc is a hated character for his stalker tendencies, harassing both Yuri in 1986 and Megumi in 2008, and creepy attitude.

I always think that womanizers who aren't completely devoid of morals unlike Sheep/Spider Fangire, can be more detrimental to the males instead of the females. Like Otoya's practices can potentially taking away women from a men before, which would obviously devastate them, and as he wants to flirt with women, obviously he will protect the object of affection he has which is women, like his motivation of joining Aozora, which would mean the males would be left to their fate even if there's enough power to do so. It can be 2 choices for womanizers, either they get close to that woman without any regard of her, or treating and focusing on woman with special privilege without any regard of others, so I actually can't accept the view of this part as empathy and non-selfishness, again, because only caring for something that matters to you can be the selfishness instead to be apathetic about anything else. And for expending so much energy on woman who despises him, even the irredeemable creeps would do that too, constantly approaching that woman nonstop like Sheep/Spider Fangire.

This is the first time Megumi and Wataru interact amicably. I'm not someone who glorifies any form of smack talking and verbal abuse as people bonding or getting close and treat all of it as gentle-ribbing, and for here, to me the indicator of Wataru and Megumi getting closer is them being able to interact cordially (particularly on Megumi's side as Wataru being timid means he's less likely to cause fight to others, but he'd run away instead). And your last point about appreciating people who helped him instead of strangers, this is a nuanced view.... but I hope this won't be a petition for characters like Wataru to...stop giving a fuck about anyone unrelated to them, only care and save the ones who you love, others be damned, basically killing what KR means. And for Aso family always pushing towards success, I hope this won't turn into a notion about how to be resilient you had to be a hardcore previously, who got softened (both girls here) but still can't display any emotional expression.

Yes, Jiro is a Fangire, and fights off other Fangire. The difference between 1986 and 2008 sequence, in 2008 it was the Otoya who fought off the Fangire, but in 1986, as Otoya was a regular human, Jiro was the one to fight instead. And likely you won't talk about this much, but 2 of Kiva's form has shown up, the blue one in ep. 4 which is Garuru form which uses Sword, and now here it's the green one which is Basshaa form. So far Kiva goes like Kuuga in form distribution to have a red main one, then blue melee weapon, and green ranged weapon. You may have preference to dialogues in fighting scene, but don't label those who doesn't suit to someone's preference as bad like no talking in fighting scene. For other media that got praise for no talking in fighting, it's said because sometimes the talking can just distract the fight's raw choreography, one upping, and brutality... though I think KR choreograph are rarely top notch for that...

Fair enough to talk about outside fight stuff like strategizing with Edith... that'd be a problem within Alia's intelligence (either normally or carried by desperation) instead of fighting skills. Rina as Delta failed epically fighting equal enemies (usual MOTW Orphnoch), while Alia was fighting opponents far beyond the suit's league in Ganmaizers.

Yep! Makes sense to me now.

I'm a fan of the restrained physicality of Bassha Form. It's a pretty standard Rider With A Gun thing, the cool and efficient hunter, but something about it coming up after Kiva's base form (wide arms evoking wings, tiny quick steps) and Garulu Form (loping strides, low base) makes it feel just as inhuman as the other forms. More great suit acting by Takaiwa, and some clever storyline placement by Inoue!

There's for sure some contrivance (a lot of the mechanics of how the Sheep and Spider coordinate things are left to the viewer's imagination; I guess that theme park has been completely abandoned for 22 years, not counting Den-O's exposition scene?), but I'm probably not going to be down on Kiva as a series for any Coincidental plots, since the entire design of it is to rhyme the two timelines. Things echoing one another, two instruments playing the same tune... that's, like, the approach of the show. If things get a little inelegant in order to eventually deliver a hell of an emotional scene, I'm not going to feel overly put out.

Yeah, I don't think you have to worry about Wataru, who is an incredibly sweet boy, losing his empathy for others. It's not a zero-sum thing. He can find a deeper connection with Megumi and find a deeper connection to humanity. (Or, at the very least, find a way of putting into words something he's felt for a while.) It's kind of a main thing in this story!

I don't think I labeled them as bad? Pretty sure I just voiced my preference. Folks are free to enjoy different kinds of fight scenes! We all process art differently!

Ah, the Spider Fangire. Probably the show's most memorable villain on account of just how completely fucking weird he was. The puppets, man. The puppets.

I'm kind of mixed on the episode. I liked the parallel stories playing out across both eras and the first attempts to find something about Otoya beneath the horndog surface. Kenji Matsuda being a badass is also always welcome. The really fast back-and-forth between eras got really distracting as the episode went on, though, especially in the build up to the final fights.

One of the things that I find interesting about Kiva from a design perspective is how much of a throwback the show is to Kuuga and Agito. Kiva's alternate forms are the same as Kuuga's: speedy blue, shooty green, and the other one that hasn't been seen yet but can be guessed from the pattern. The transformations are like Agito's, though, with the base suit not changing apart from an arm, the chest, and the eyes.

This is actually something I really liked in the episode (but maybe didn't sound like it), since it made both halves feel like they were telling the same story. The way the narrative worked like a baton pass, keeping the momentum with a different lineup, I really thought it worked. It didn't feel like 1986 was a subplot to 2008 or vice versa, it felt like all four characters were in the same story.

Trying to find something to say about this episode, but aside from pointing out that Ryo puts both Aso ladies in different wedding dresses, everything’s been said. Hopefully, I get something out of the next two parter, since I remember at least two things about it (and neither is what people who have seen them would expect I’d remember)

!!!

How do I never notice these things!?

The way Kiva holds his arms like that is one of my favorite bits of Rider body language ever. It's a big part of what I was talking about when referring to this show's fight scenes as "romanticized". People doing thematic animal poses is such a deeply tokusatsu bit of theatricality that I'm all over, and while I understood that much about him, I've straight up never previously made the more specific connection that Kiva, the bat Rider, ~might~ be imitating a bat in his base form. I didn't even realize this was a mystery, but thanks for solving it for me, Die!

Also, one thing I REALLY want to mention about episode 6 that I forgot happened here. One of the absolute most memorable moments in the entire show for me happens right at the start, when Wataru meekly points at himself when asked by Nago where Kiva went, and Nago brushes it off as a gag in poor taste.

I mean, it probably seems like a minor, cheap bit to most people, with no particular significance, but I honestly think that whole back-and-forth between the two of them is a shining example of how well a stereotypical Inoue moment of misunderstanding can work with the characters, rather than against them, the way Inoue's reputation usually suggests. Like, I don't know man, it's just so brilliant to me that this early on, there's this moment where Wataru tries to make this tiny effort to clear things up in spite of himself, only to immediately shut down in the face Nago's impossibly strong personality. Poor guy tries to let someone in on his secret identity and Nago is just over there like "nice joke kid, but I gotta hurry and find that horrible monster Kiva so I can personally end his wretched existence with my own two hands!"

It's seriously amazing, and legitimately in-character for the both of them. (Wataru is bad with words; Nago is crazy) From what I remember, I'm pretty sure it makes no real difference to the plot whether that beat happens or not, and if it doesn't, I really appreciate the conscious decision to write it in anyway.

Yeah, it completely doesn't matter to the plot. Nago disappears from the story after that scene (I'm really hoping the next episode opens with him dangling some crime-boss out of a window while demanding they tell him where Kiva took Megumi), so the idea of Nago hunting down Kiva while Wataru is trying to save Megumi is like Ha Ha Nope.

But it's an incredibly great moment! It's Wataru being unfailingly honest! It's Nago being so rigid in his worldview that he literally can't conceive of Kiva being an adorably awkward shut-in! It's Wataru trying to make his Work Dad understand that Kiva isn't some awful villain and getting curtly rebuffed! It's Nago being the worst partner to anyone ever by taking on the entire rescue mission by himself, accomplishing exactly nothing!

It's an incredibly great moment!

I’mma download this all soon cause this sounds fun.

It is pretty fun! I would recommend trying it out, for sure. It's an entertaining story about a multi-generational war against decorative vampire monsters, waged by self-reliant women, insufferable men, and one very sweet boy who can't decided which group to draw strength from.

KAMEN RIDER KIVA EPISODE 07 - "HYMN: THREE-STAR FULL COURSE OF DARKNESS”

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/kiva/kiva07a.png

There's a very sweet scene in the middle of this episode that managed to showcase everything I love about Wataru, along with everything I hate about him right now.

He's in the bath, and he's had a rough day. It's been non-stop bickering between Megumi and Nago, with Wataru caught in the middle, frequently literally. (In case you're unclear on the Work Dad and Work Mom metaphor here, Wataru's flashback to the restaurant fight is shot from his perspective as he crouched on the floor, making his Work Parents look gigantic and powerful and terrifying.) He doesn't understand why people argue. He doesn't understand why the world can't be a kinder, gentler place.

It's such a beautiful moment. He's so personally affected by people not getting along. He's more wounded by seeing the people he respects argue than he is getting mauled by a Fangire. He's a sensitive soul; maybe the most sensitive soul one of these Kamen Rider shows has ever had. To see him take it on the chin when his Work Mom and Work Dad argue over him... I care so much about that kid.

Which is why I also want to grab him by the shoulders and scream in his face PEOPLE CAN'T GET ALONG BECAUSE NAGO IS A CONTROLLING ASSHOLE WHO IS USING THE PSYCHOLOGY OF AN ABUSER TO ISOLATE YOU FROM ANYONE WHO WOULD LESSEN HIS GRIP ON YOU, WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY WORKING TO DIMINISH MEGUMI'S CAREER OPPORTUNITIES BECAUSE HE CAN'T WIN UNLESS SOMEONE ELSE LOSES. It's a story that is so colossally one-sided in portraying Nago as Maybe The Actual Devil that it is frustrating to see Wataru even briefly try to Both Sides it.

And, you know, I get it. I get that we're still in a period where Wataru is trying to fill the Otoya-shaped void in his life, so he's going to be easily manipulated by Work Dads and skeptical of Work Moms. This is a story about how partnerships that are destructive can cause problems for more than just the people in them, so it's fair for Wataru to be the kid who just wants Work Mom and Work Dad to get along. Wataru isn't really doing anything unexpected here, and the metaphorical weight of this story is going to make certain demands of him, narratively.

It's just, Nago is so relentlessly callous and controlling here that it is heartbreaking to watch Wataru get so spun around. When Nago is screaming at Wataru to ignore anyone who would contradict him; that only Nago will ever tell Wataru the truth... DARK! Very dark stuff, and it's honestly hard to deal with Wataru getting so manipulated.

It's a problem with this story, maybe. It's a story that has some real-world emotional weight to it. This is something that children of divorce will potentially deal with: having your parents fight over you, having them try to poison you against each other. It's an intensely dramatic story that Wataru is in. It just... I don't know. It's subject matter that I respect the show for grappling with, even if the act of watching it is frustrating and anxiety-inducing. Wataru as a helpless child is both adorable and aggravating. Never dull, though.

Besides the gut-churning scenes of Nago psychologically abusing Wataru, it was actually a pretty enjoyable episode of Kiva. Some great comedic beats in the first half (there's this duck quacking that they put on the soundtrack when Wataru is nodding at Nago?!?!), the middle fight against Count Fangire was exhilarating (all those quick punches to start, and then Kiva vaulting off of Nago's shoulder to escape confrontation), all wrapped up with a cliffhanger that had Zanki maybe eating a person? Dynamically shot episode with a lot of dazzling meat on the visual bones.

I had a bit of a tough time with this one. It definitely got me emotionally involved, but maybe to a degree where it was hard to watch. It took a story that looked like it was just going to be about Odd Couple partnerships, and then switched it up into a story about children torn between two parents. I love the concept, even if I spent a few scenes wanting to both save Wataru and shake some goddamn sense into him. He's a sweet boy! I don't like to see him get used like this!

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/kiva/kiva07b.png

I wish I had something interesting to contribute about the episode (I definitely need to start talking more about Wataru soon), but I mostly just... really liked the tone of that last post? It really comes across how invested you already are in this cast of oddballs. At any rate, the episode being visually dynamic is no surprise when 7/8 are Tasaki's next pair after the first two.

...And while it isn't more relevant to this episode than any other, I'd be remiss not to share the grandiose music that heralds Kiva's form changes. It's the song so epic, it makes Zanki stop caring about his house of cards! ...Or is it his lust for blood that does that???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQxpuuMdCgs

Ha ha, thanks! This was an episode where I thought I wanted to talk about the visuals (I think the Grand Maison was also the set for the climax of the Blade movie?), but then I decided to start with that Wataru bath scene, and then it was pretty much all I wanted to talk about from that episode. I didn't even get to talk about how extra-theatrical (and extra-pushy!) Otoya was to make up for how human and considerate he was last time!

Can I mention how much I adore the cutaway of a falling house of cards to run not just in an episode about Wataru's pseudo-family disintegrating, but also directly before Kiva needs to escape from Nago? Such a brilliant image to use!

I just realized, isn’t Inoue influenced by Showa rider when writing his series? Is that true?

Yeah, I guess I must’ve ignored the abuse undertones. Moving on...

Prawn Fangire

True name: The Candlestick and the Compass Promise a Party (燭台と方位磁石が契る宴 Shokudai to Hōijishaku ga Chigiru Utage)

Human identity: Count Inukai

Class: Aqua

Rank: Pawn

Actors: Sakaki

And the first thing I remember from this two-parter: It’s not actually something in the episodes, but a fun thing Tv-Nihon did with a scene of Megumi with a fish in her mouth. Namely, captioning it “Remember kids, don’t talk with food in your mouth. People won’t understand what you say. Yo Joe!”

Of course not to Wataru, but like before regarding Otoya, I also worry about the audience wishing the story (Wataru) to be turned that way, and act as it's completely ok and fully heroic for him to only care about loved ones (and I get this vibe from yours too to lump Otoya's part of story as empathy and non-selfishness) and ignore the rest. I really want for KR to convey the message that "irrelevant nameless nobodies" and strangers are people too, and that heroism isn't only about saving people.

And processing art also means people shouldn't limit how others express and create their work (doesn't mean no giving any tips), like preventing others making something that isn't suitable to their preference, and encouraging others to make things only that suit their taste by "this is what I want for..."

Now here... if the term bickering is usually refered as gentle-ribbing between allies, the spat between Megumi and Nago, is clearly not about friendship that acts like bitter enemies outwardly. They're in clear dispute and friction, mostly in Nago's side for showing sexism to her. Neutrality is something a straight hero should display between this to not focusing on giving benefit to only 1 side, make it balanced. And well, the hate of Wataru here, is something I talk about regarding others who fully hate before, about his "weaknesses" (timid and socially-awkward) for a main hero role, and you didn't do it fully towards anyone with this (and has mixed concern to Wataru), but this is still a hate shown for ordinary flaws (naivety, misplaced trust, etc.) where people give passes to dark flaws (greedy, violent, etc.), which is double standard-y to me, especially for the cries of giving characters flaws to make them believable. And don't want to give the implications that people like Wataru deserve the misery like bullying and ostracization they got (I know you also said to want to save Wataru too, but still this is common for fandom to only throw hate to this type of character), and other than that (for you claiming this part isn't dull), the hate of boring and dull can also play a part in this too. Otherwise story wise, of course Nago is the Kusaka, so he'll be charismatic and charming enough to manipulate others, and be successful in doing it, along with Inoue's miscommunication.

Though it's maybe hard to deal with Wataru here, it's expected, because Wataru is a doormat, not even someone like Nago, a regular newspaper scout also had Wataru easily swayed. Though still, sense of despair, grittiness, realism, evoking those feelings in stories can be good (though can backfire, everything can) to introduce which shouldn't be used as an example, though of course too much of this (and more again, if it's needlessly added) will turn this to edgy instead, where Inoue frequently veers to edgy territory. It seems that although the children of divorce aspect here is on the later planned date part for Megumi to Wataru where Nago intervenes and turns it into "investigation" instead, but there are actual spat not based on that earlier which is based on Nago's ego and sexism. Other than that, Shizuka seems to play a part in taking Wataru's phone and disrupting his conversations with others. Jiro's bad side is revealed here.

Nothing about this stayed in my long term memory, so it felt like a completely new experience. I do enjoy the double act of Megumi and Nago, but it is slightly dampened by the fact that you're absolutely right about Nago being an abusive jerk and the behavior becomes much worse when he's paired with Wataru. Megumi, at least, refuses to take Nago's shit, but Wataru just stands there and accepts it like a complete doormat.

This is part of why I've never really liked Wataru. He's passive and reactionary in ways that make him a complete pushover for anyone with a stronger force of personality. He knows it, too, but his response is usually to sulk in his tub instead of trying to stand up for himself. I always compare him unfavorably to Ryotaro, who also had more of a weenie exterior but had a strong core of resolve and inner strength underneath it. Wataru often comes across to me as weenie all the way down. Not always, but often enough that it tends to frustrate me.

In any case, I'm looking forward to the next episode. It has what is, to me, the single most quintessentially Kiva moment in the entire series.

I think it does that! A lot! Kiva alone just had a plot where Wataru tried to improve the lives of two strangers his dad screwed over decades earlier. I mean, they got killed by a Fangire, but Wataru was still working on their behalf.

I don't really see Kamen Rider as a franchise that values saving people over improving lives? I mean, the whole Heisei era is living in the shadow of Protecting People's Smiles, and that comes from a show about the horrible cost of violence. I don't think you need to worry about Kamen Rider forgetting about the innocents!

The hope is that this chapter is just to get him to a place where he's able to push back against Nago's manipulation, but, yeah. Wataru is so incredibly sweet that he's able to be strong-armed by someone as self-involved and controlling as Nago, which is as heartbreaking as it is infuriating.

A lot of it... it's that this story has no one looking out for Wataru. It should be Megumi, but she's so wrapped up in her rivalry with Nago that she can't really see how this is hurting Wataru. Again, this is a story that's probably going to land harder for kids of divorce, where the children become less important than Winning against an ex. It's part of the narrative that Wataru is being buffeted by Nago's iron grip and Megumi's hot temper.

So, I mean, I know what you're saying. I do not love seeing Wataru depressed in a bathtub! But there's an element of it feeling necessary to this story that... I don't know. I'm coming around a bit on it. It helps that I'm not experiencing it anymore, because that was rough. Definitely improves in the memory.

Wataru's problem is that he really needs someone caring and responsible to look out for him and help him out of his shell, but he's in a Toshiki Inoue series so those are in very short supply.

Well, Wataru's also in a franchise where All Dads Are Dead, so he's doubly-boned.

In a larger sense, though... I don't want to jump out to Big Proclamations after only seven episodes, but there's a feeling here that we're watching Inoue's take on Hibiki. Not Inoue trying to land Hibiki, but what Hibiki would've been if Inoue had created it. Kiva's a series that's devoted to how Wataru grows up, essentially. It's about how the forces in his life shape him into a man. In Hibiki, Asumu has one clear person to pattern himself after, because that's the type of show it was. With Kiva, Inoue is introducing a bunch of competing forces in Wataru's life, and Wataru is the eye of the storm.

So, like, it's not that Inoue hasn't written in someone who can nurture and guide Wataru. If anything, he's introducing a bunch of people who are offering to do that for different reasons (some good, some Nago), and it's Wataru's journey to figure out what he can learn from those people.

That’s a pretty good take on it. I also feel that if Inoue had more of a hand in creating Hibiki, some of the other Oni would’ve had larger roles than showing up purely to remind us they exist. Or at least, the novel version would do that, since novels based on Inoue’s shows tend to do that. (Kiva’s novel, among other changes, makes Shizuka a key part of the plot).

Probably, yeah. There's still plenty of It Takes A Village stuff in Hibiki, but the main relationship is just Hibiki+Asumu. Even when Asumu's off having an isolated adventure, the Hibiki scenes are there to put the harsh reality into a superhero context. Kiva is... way more Inoue, with motivations and metaphors that are darker and more subjective, and greater pitfalls for Wataru.