|
Community Links |
Members List |
Search Forums |
Advanced Search |
Go to Page... |
![]() |
Kamen Rider Black is my favourite Kamen Rider show and I don't even think the original will top it so I may be biased but I never noticed much of a tonal change either, although I did watch it over a few years as year-long shows have normally taken a while for me of course!
|
Well, I’ve moved into episode 30 of Hibiki. And I didn’t like it.
I LOVED IT. After 28 boring episodes with one real standout, this was a real treat. They’ve stopped dicking around and shooting money and actually done something interesting with their premise. We actually get Asumu’s day in the life outside the ONI and TAKESHI, with a guy who basically embodies the idea the “cool newcomer” in a way that stands out. He’s not antagonising the led guy, he just sees him as beneath him. And the switch to the city for action scenes gives the Makamou some much needed villain cred. Having the new one go around burning people to death really looks as awesome as it sounds. And it’s an actual guy in a suit, rather than some PS2 reject, so there’s that. |
Quote:
|
Y'know, maybe I was hyping up Golgom too much, I idly thought. Maybe, I considered; this would be as far as the ridiculous plots would go, and once I start up episode 6, they'll have a much tamer plan in mind.
https://i.imgur.com/RPdAIU0.jpg https://i.imgur.com/uvZ46j1.jpg https://i.imgur.com/vHQPyus.png https://i.imgur.com/W0giWtN.png https://i.imgur.com/B9Uqp92.png https://i.imgur.com/bOdomtt.jpg https://i.imgur.com/0sPN18u.jpg https://i.imgur.com/tECBcoP.jpg https://i.imgur.com/0pElt1U.jpg https://i.imgur.com/A45UQA2.jpg https://i.imgur.com/fodOEla.jpg Kamen Rider Black is the best show ever made |
I almost want to say this can be considered social commentary, but I regardless welcome our esper innovatives to lead the way!
|
Quote:
|
There's a really strong (and a bit weird) fascination with ESP in Japan through the 1980s, which was often reflected by the pop media at the time. But yeah, Golgom is basically Team Rocket.
Got into some more comfy Ryuki time by rewatching the Special Episode 13 Riders. It's... not very good, but I guess your ceiling will always be limited when your entire plot is a flimsy excuse to get all the 13 Riders together in just under 50 minutes. It's basically Verde show to me. Takamizawa was eh, whatever, just a generic rich and powerful bad guy, but I enjoyed the suit design and the troll-y fight with Raia. Kusaka can merely dream what shenanigan he could cook up with that Copy Vent alone. Other than that, Shinji as Knight was very cool to see, and I actually like the idea of the gimmick multiple choice endings. It's an AU story, might as well experiment by having Bad Ending and Worse Ending to troll the audience. I might lean a bit more toward the 'fight to the death' ending, even if that scene with the simultaneous Final Vent scene didn't make any lick of sense. A lot of things in this special didn't make much sense, actually, but well, whatever. Episode Final: lots of nostalgia value here, but I'd still maintain to this day that this is a legit great KR movie. My ideal version of Ryuki would be most of the movie's plot transplanted into Episode 30ish-40ish of the show (retaining the Tiger/Imperer plotline and the ending from the show in the process). The Yui/Shiro part, for one, worked so much better here. It's partly because the whole thing's not being dragged out through dozens of episodes, but it's also because you really see more from Yui's perspective here. I also like the additional connection about Shinji and Yui, it strengthened Shinji's dilemma even more by establishing Yui as more than a complete stranger to him. This was the first time I watched the Director's Cut version, which is longer by 20 minutes compared to the theatrical cut. These extra minutes comprise stuff like Auntie pranking the gang at the end of the ghost story, the Chief being stunned by seeing Shimada without glasses, some extra lines from the Agito gang, Kitaoka and Goro discussing what flower to get for Reiko, Reiko applying make-up before her meeting with Kitaoka... these aren't significant plot-wise and didn't really add anything that we don't already know, but it's a pleasant treat to someone like me who really love these characters. The DC version has smoother transition/bridging between scenes too, which is a bit of a problem I had with the theatrical cut (most notably in the very abrupt cut from Kitaoka resigning to Shinji and Miho's okonomiyaki date). Most of the extra stuff are in the Shinji/Miho scenes. There were extra lines of dialogue and longer bantering in their scenes, and it just solidified how lovely they are together. Still my favorite romantic couple in Kamen Rider (well not much competition for that :v), and Miho herself was extremely memorable and charming, the kind of character I'd really love to watch over the course of a full series. That shoelace scene, it still got me every damn time. Admittedly, the Ren/Shinji bromance moment was weaker than the equivalent scenes in the show proper (or even in the special) because of the relative lack of build-up to it, and the ending was a bit underwhelming in its open-endedness. But again, the fight scenes were fantastic (Knight's aerial fight with Darkwing detaching itself was a personal fave), and all 6 Riders featured here got their respective moments of awesomeness with what felt like a very appropriate distribution of screen time. Finally, the counter showing 'X rider remaining', I love that. Very reminiscent of the novel Battle Royale (which itself borrowed the trick from Stephen King's The Long Walk), seemingly a major source of inspiration for Ryuki (and a lot of works with similar concept obviously). Come to think of it, Shinji was very similar to Shuuya from BR in their role as a naive pacifist MC; there were some situations where they had practically the same lines. |
Sword Saint Birugenia, Episode 18: You couldn't even defeat someone as weak as Kotaro Minami? Pathetic. I'll destroy this “Kamen Rider Black” with ease, and then you shall see who should truly have been the Century King!!
Sword Saint Birugenia, Episode 25: y'know what I'll just settle for the bike at this point https://i.imgur.com/OiSDr7D.png |
Bless their cold, shriveled hearts, these villains are trying, they really are!
Anyway, since you're apparently about at that point, I feel like I might as well tell you episode 28 has the distinction of being the sole episode of BLACK written by Naruhisa Arakawa, years before he would go on to help Takatera tear down all the rules by writing Kuuga. His work on this show is maybe a little less groundbreaking, but I nonetheless remember it really fondly, if only because I saved this screencap from it. Spoilers, I guess, but, in a shocking twist, Koutarou... thinks Golgom is up to something! https://i.imgur.com/lKXm4pF.png |
I'm glad that Kotaro assuming Gorgom does literally everything ended up being an actual meme and not just one of the injokes made between me and the friend I watched Black+RX with. Like really, it's almost to a point where a kid could drop their ice cream in the street and you'd hear in the distance "GORGOM!!"
Now if only the butt jeans were a meme too... |
Funny thing is, Fish, I literally just finished Episode 27 as you posted that!
And... actually, I wanna talk about it for a second, because I think it just might be my legitimate favourite so far; hilariously dumb episodes like 13 notwithstanding. https://i.imgur.com/LEu1WiI.png So. Alright. Setup for the episode: Slug Moth Mutant (they're really running out of nonspecific animals, huh?) has this power where basically he's able to set up lines that both sap electricity, and lay cocoons among them that explode when exposed to basically any type of energy. Now, right away, I'm groaning and assuming that this is going to be an episode about... oh, you shouldn't rely so much on electricity; now it's taken you're going to have to get back to nature or find non-electrical ways to do things, you should go back to your roots and find the way your granddaddy did it yadda yadda. It's a very common set-up in kids' shows, to teach them a lesson in that way; and a fair bit in the first few minutes of the episode leads me to think they'll be doing it here! The establishing scene has some teenager playing music way too loud in front of her mother and getting annoyed when the power cuts out; and then the cut to the Golgom High Priests - the best characters in the show, or perhaps of the franchise - has them talking kind of along these lines; about how without electricity, heat etc; essentially modern human society will crumble and Golgom will reign supreme. And it's important to note a couple things here about Golgom that have characterised them beyond the goofiness that made me think this way: they are very disdainful of and pessimistic about humanity and consider the hubris to be their biggest trait; poke 'em with a stick enough times and they'll destroy themselves -- and then that their plans tend to revolve around that psychological element. That plan I linked early on of them thinking that making one village into assholes will cause international war? Very goofy! Very stupid! Very funny! But also very much the perfect insight into how these villains see their enemies and how they plan around them -- these humans are primitive and stupid and easily set off; let's do something to set off these primitive and stupid creatures. So that's how I'm thinking of this, right? That the episode will be themed around the loss of electricity, and Kotaro and some kids or something will need to figure out how to make do without it. The very next scene introduces Kotaro to a hospitalised child who in his current state cannot survive for long without medical equipment. https://i.imgur.com/4V3QFNC.jpg So. Right off the bat. Kind of taken aback! Very much respect how they turned around my expectations like that, and something that I've loved about Toku in general and why I tend to not be into certain other shows -- it doesn't feel the need to condescend and it takes its audience of children seriously. There's a level of respect for the children watching where, like... it still knows how to keep it appropriate, right? There's lines it knows not to cross and there's stories it knows are best to prioritise for kids; but it also knows that these stories don't need to talk down to those kids. It doesn't feel like it needs to treat kids as some dumb selfish little brats who need to be taught not to throw a tantrum over the TV not working -- no, Kamen Rider Black instead thinks so much of its audience that it can just tell a story about how much of a catastrophe the loss of electricity would be for so, so many people who need it to survive. It's a story not just of respect but also underneath it all, something that might subtly broaden horizons for some of its audience; maybe show them how other people live or perhaps show one of those unfortunate people that they're just as loved and treated as friends and allies by Kamen Rider! https://i.imgur.com/wO4k9eu.jpg Now that on its own? Very lovely; I like having my expectations turned around in a very positive way. But it doesn't stop there, because sapping electricity isn't the only thing Slug Moth Mutant's powers (seriously, Slug Moth? That's where we're at, huh?) do -- there's also explosive cocoons that react to any sort of energy. ... including the energy Black exudes after he transforms. Kotaro for most of the episode literally cannot transform and can barely use his bikes for long. So raised stakes, right? Well it doesn't stop there! Because usually when he's disadvantaged like this, he'd just be met by the monster of the week. And he does, at one point! He is indeed met by the monster of the week. But first he's got to deal with the fucking three high priests of Golgom. https://i.imgur.com/iQpN1lq.jpg Like, holy shit. I've been talking mostly about how these guys are funny for how dumb they are, right? Well... I haven't been talking about how they've been for the last 10 episodes. Because about 10 episodes ago, Black introduced a new general; pink sword dude up there called Sword Saint Birugenia. I kinda pitied him from the moment I saw him because, my god, I hear nothing about this guy; he's clearly gonna be killed and replaced by Shadow Moon the moment he shows up and all hope for his own popularity is just gone. But as-is, he's this terrifying entity that was locked away for his destructive capabilities towards Golgom itself, and is resurrected to deal with KR Black -- and the three priests are kind of terrified of him. Suddenly they have to work with this guy who's showing them up at every turn and who doesn't exactly seem to have the best intentions in mind for them, and while it's more likely they'll beat Kotaro with his help; it doesn't make the outcome look much better for them. So suddenly they've been upping the ante -- they've been taking to the field more, they've been pursuing much more serious and grander-scale plans; they've been targeting Kotaro a LOT more than they usually would. They're still very much the three stooges I feel, but recently it's been like, the three stooges if they pulled a gun on the audience every 15 minutes. They definitely feel like much more of a threat now. So they show up, knock Kotaro off the bridge by setting off explosions around him, and suddenly this part of this episode is a powerless Kotaro desperately hiding from the three most powerful characters in the show who are relentlessly searching to kill him. It gives off a very similar vibe to the first episode where they pursued a runaway Kotaro for the first time, and it's no less terrifying here -- especially when there's no transformation to save Kotaro this time! This episode has now turned into an incredible study of our main character's determination and altruism here -- he's in a race against time to save the life of one child he's never before, faced down by impossible odds and arguably at the worst disadvantage he's ever been. The only way he's actually able to overcome this by the end, as he hears that child desperately plead his name for help; is jumping off a cliff because middair is the only place without cocoons so he can transform. From there on it's pretty straightforward saving the day and inspiring this kid, but... man. This was such a good episode. If someone asked me to point me to the best of this show; something that showed what it's most capable of, something that showed everything you wanted to know about the main character; something that showed what it's about? This is one of the ones I would give them, easily. I think it's gonna be hard to top this one, not gonna lie! |
Gosh, I pounded through BLACK so fast a lot of it is a blur, but reading that really kicked up memories of how awesome that episode was. Especially Koutarou's solution for his inability to transform. That's a real nuts and bolts superhero storytelling kinda moment, with him having to be smart (and brave in this case too!) before he can be strong. Heck of a way to lead into the climax.
I'd say I can only imagine how much more awesome it must've been for you, going in expecting just some cheesy plot with Koutarou roughing it in the woods with some kids or something, but then, you made your passion for this one crystal clear. |
Quote:
Though, uh, sometimes that can go to the opposite extreme, too. I guess this is so much a Kamen Rider reboot that Kotaro is also a 600 IQ genius! https://i.imgur.com/MGcNu63.jpg |
Quote:
|
I briefly considered pulling a KR Die and making a thread for recapping my watching of Zi-O
But I just...Don't have it in me. Good lord, do I still hate this show. When it first aired I made it 3 episodes in and stopped. Now I'm on episode 5, and I still just want to stop :lol Time travel plots...Kabuto made it work because Tendou is just bullshit. Here, though? The amount of plot holes I have to ignore to make it work I might as well just ignore the plots and skip to the fight scenes...And besides that, how can I root for Sougo when the end result is him becoming a literal mass murdering tyrant? Just the fact that he openly erased Build and Ex-Aid from existence should be enough for Geiz to realize he's going to walk that path. And yes, I know he doesn't in the end, but still, at this point in the series, Geiz made it clear the moment he takes that first step towards Ohma Zi-O he'd kill him, well...He's taken 3 steps now, Woz is right there straight up saying he's on the right path to Ohma Zi-O, and yet Geiz is just "I'll be a dick to you, but I won't kill you" and I just...God... I knew a series that openly embraces Decade would piss me off... AND OH FUCKING JOY. TAKUMI AND KUSAKA AGAIN. Are these two chucklefucks contractually obligated to never stop appearing? |
Quote:
Also, that goddamn tactical dickie. Quote:
|
Almost like actually killing an innocent 18 year old is hard for another young person to do, wow, who'd have guessed?
|
Except Geiz knows this isn't some random innocent kid. He literally just watched this man kill every person he loved, hence why he even traveled back in time to the first place.
I understand that, even as a time traveler that he has a hard time pulling the trigger on a person who hasn't done anything wrong yet. OH WAIT HE ATTACKED ANOTHER WIZARD BEFORE HE DID ANYTHING WRONG. Even ignoring that, Sougo has done everything in his power to make it clear he wants the power to become king, having erased 4 riders from existence now because "I want to be king!" He even openly tells Woz he'll become demon king. I know it was a playful jest, but this is a person, if not stopped, casually causes the apocalypse. Everyone knows this, but no one takes any active steps in stopping it. |
It’s like if Kyle Reese travelled back in time only to decide “man, this Sarah Conner chick is kind of annoying, maybe I’ll wait and see how that cyborg thing turns out.”
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Or maybe he's just doing it all for Junchiro's cooking because it's better than anything in the future. Who knows? And I'm not even sure why I'm writing this many words defending a character who I'll still agree isn't the best written. Even the show lampshades it - one of the .5 episodes has them point out how many writers they're going through in the early arc. I think it's just because "Geiz's flip flops therefore he sucks" is just such a common and kinda lame complaint that it's more fun to try and read between the lines than just join in the complaining? Idk, it's late, I'm tired and overthinking Kamen Rider. |
I've always found Geiz's character pretty easy to understand -- he goes back in time with a simple goal to save his future, then finds things a lot more complicated than they seemed at first between finding it hard to kill; between the Timejackers being a thing; between Tsukuyomi's own thoughts and between it seeming that Sougo might not actually become Ohma at all. There's so many reasons for him not to kill Sougo that keep popping up and are always made very clear.
|
Man, it's almost like the fundamental dramatic tension of Geiz's character stems from his inability to get his brain in sync with his heart when it comes to Sougo. Next you'll be telling me that Sento often struggles with self-doubt despite proclaiming himself to be a narcissist, or that Shoutarou isn't actually hard-boiled.
I'm sorry I'm being so sarcastic about this, so to be more sincere for a second, I just really have a hard time seeing where the whole "Geiz is totally inconsistent and random!" argument comes from. Or at least I don't get the sheer level of vitriol it usually comes with? I'll fully acknowledge that being on the exact opposite end of the spectrum when it comes to my opinions on the character is part of the problem here. Heck, in general, Zi-O has turned out to be my favorite series since Ghost, so... yeah, I mean, I guess I'm used to being in this position, at least. |
Plus, as later plots prove, Geiz is *incredibly* easily manipulated. You can trick him into blowing himself up with his own attack just by going "No Geiz, don't do it, please~!" He's just a dork trying to act cool, but he's the one who managed to get his own Ridewatch, so back in time he goes!
This has got me thinking, though - in the original drafts, before rewrites got us the Zi-O we actually saw - what were the Time Jackers going to be? Better explained than what we got? Worse? Tis a mystery for the ages. EDIT: Oh no I agree with Fish Sandwich on something can't believe I've resigned myself to the bad end of history. |
Since I'm not even 10 episodes in, I don't have a solid grasp on Geiz's character, so I can't fully say he's inconsistent. I just hate his lack of agency. I guess one can argue that, if you can freely travel through time with no consequences, "Hurrying up" isn't exactly high on the to do list, but considering he spends most episode standing around with his arms crossed until something happens, it feels like he literally has no desire to do much of anything.
And speaking of desire, episode 9 is probably the first episode of Zi-O I enjoyed. OOO is one of my favorite series, and it's hard not to love Kuroto Dan. It was nice to see him in full ham mode. Seems even with timeline altering shenanigans, his insanity can't be stopped. Sougo basically drooling over him once he declared himself king is wonderful. Anyway, I do have a question about episode 8 and Beast's appearance. How? His driver was destroyed and Chimera was set free at the end of Wizard, and if the timeline was altered via the creation of Another Wizard and he never became a mage, then, well...He never became a mage. So regardless of the situation, how could Beast transform, however briefly, in that episode? |
In the Wizard/Gaim crossover, he got Chimera back offscreen - it's been years since I watched it, but they mention recapturing him for study, and then Beast ends up having to transform again. And since then, he's been feeding the Phamtom a steady diet of Hellheim fruit!
Edit: Also it's best not to overthink Ridewatches. They work like clocks, and contain 'history'. That's all you need to know. |
Quote:
|
Yeah count me in on not getting on why people keep saying Geiz flip flopping is inconsistant. Early on we establish Tsukoyomi being able to get Geiz to relent even while being his stubborn self. So what originally got him to back down was that. But he hasn't formed a meaningful bond with Sougo which is why he was so hostile in the beginning. But as the show keeps going his constant threats were seen more or less to keep a status quo and you can see that even he clearly dosen't believe in it anymore.But Geiz constant pressure of future events feels as if he has no choice but to keep up. Which is why when Sougo and Geiz were reminded by Tsukoyomi about changing destiny and not going through with "final battle" in episode 28 that Geiz drops his constant threats.
It's this bond that allows Geiz to be more wary of White Woz as the old Geiz would've taken the powers of Revive without question. As well as for both of them to come to understanding so quickly once Hiryu reseted the world and history.(It also an indication of Sougo growth but that whole nother tangent) |
Quote:
Next you'll tell me Giru's awakening in Movie War Core was also canon, but he was just defeated off screen and never brought up :lol Eh, whatever it takes to justify a character getting their powers back, I guess. And I'm trying not to, trust me, but then the series goes and tries to explain them |
Geiz is like the only the character in the entirety of Zi-O that makes sense from beginning to end.
Appreciate this boy: https://external-content.duckduckgo....6pid%3DApi&f=1 |
Never liked Geiz. Didn’t work for me as a character, went from "I like you Sougo!" to "I murder you now Sougo!" like three times too many.
|
Maybe I have low standards but even though maybe the characters weren't all that super awesome to be fair it was enough for me that Zi-O seemed to have more respect for past shows than Decade, at least! I mean the Kiva episodes still weren't great but at least it was more of a story than that random kid!
|
Quote:
It was really cool seeing so many actors return. |
Quote:
|
Alrighty, so, I'm 38 episodes into Black! I've got only 13 episodes of Shadow Moon & Black Sun goodness to go!!
Quote:
If anything, the episodes became MORE about Kotaro as time has gone on! I've mentioned in my last KR Black post that Birugenia forced more competition and direct action out of the high priests, and while they still of course have an approximately 5% success rate; this is still very much true. Suddenly there were a lot more episodes about trying to remove Kamen Rider from the equation, or focusing on one of the two girls, or actively trying to awake Shadow Moon. It's hardly direct serialisation but I find this season got more plot-heavy the more time went on. Talking of plot... Shadow Moon's woken up! And he is a hell of a threat. What I wasn't expecting was for him to be so mechanical and to feel so much like a machine; there's always a lot of beeping around him and that leitmotif of him clacking his boots creates such an intimidating atmosphere. For the last third of the show I get the feeling it's going to make Golgom even more of a threat and much more enjoyable to watch overall! ... Is what I would say if my three favourite characters in the High Priests didn't get reborn as generic monster designs that don't reflect anything about them and don't carry any of their character. They don't even use the same elements the previous episode hurriedly assigned to them! Girl General Shadow gets to keep her face at least (because, y'know, she's the girl one; but that also means she gets the standard girl design), Discount Dr. Doom becomes this weird biker cat thing, and the short one that gave off the elder vibe has become this giant buff insect??? Their speaking roles are heavily decreased to what amounts to little more than grunts, they've abandoned their cloaks and with them any sense of actual mystery or power, and it is a damn shame. I was genuinely liking these three and I was so excited to see them alongside Shadow Moon! It's not even that I'm opposed to them getting new more powerful designs because that's actually very awesome, but the way it's done has removed every bit of character from them that made them great and it's difficult to imagine worse redesigns for them. It's a good thing Shadow Moon is as good as he is because man this would have turned me off so much. To end this on a positive note, I love that Shadow Moon is never referred to as a Kamen Rider despite everything about his appearance, his powers and how he works. Is this a good thing thematically? Well, yeah, but the MAIN positive here is that the title of "first evil Kamen Rider" gets to go to Scissors. |
Gotta say, I almost started rooting for Shadow Moon once he came around. I too would be pissed off at the world if my ability to sit down were removed.
|
Quote:
@Kurona: If you're in the final stretch, look forward to Whale Mutant, he's cool. |
Quote:
The funny thing is, Noboru Sugimura was of course famous for his work as main writer on a string of excellent 90's Sentai shows, including Zyuranger, which I've consistently heard described that same way; that the heroes are often secondary to some kid of the week. But, at least as far as his work on BLACK is concerned, most of the episodes he wrote are the super plot heavy ones revolving around Shadow Moon, an antagonist who inherently shifts the focus directly onto Koutarou whenever he takes an active role in the plots. And Shadow Moon is freakin' great, of course. I think those boots alone are one of the most genius bits of costume design in all of tokusatsu, for one. To be honest, the Golgom priests never did much for me, so I definitely welcomed a new main bad guy with open arms. |
So Zi-O doesn't even attempt to explain how Takeru has the Ghost Ridewatch?
Well, at least they're not trying to make pretzel logic in how the characters get the watches and hold on to them for X years despite having no memories anymore :lol Also, dat Specter cameo. Literally just appears. Eh, I guess if the actor is willing to make a return, why not, right? What's that? Kabuto's actor has been wanting to return for years now? Oh... |
...So if they literally made it a plot point that if the Quiz Ridewatch were to be made, Quiz would lose his memories and he wouldn't have the answer he was seeking, then why, when White Woz forcibly made the Quiz Ridewatch, he kept his memories?
|
Quote:
|
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:51 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:51 PM.
|