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Started rewatching Kabuto this week to get a head start on Die's next thread. I remembered what Tendou was like, but at the same time I completely forgot just how intensely Tendou he could be.
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I was about to make a snarky comment about the Ghost/Drive Movie, but then I googled it and it turns out Core is the other dodgy Movie Wars from the potential future discussion!
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I think I remember not minding Core actually IIRC!
I've started a thing this year of rewatching certain shows at the weekend based on their anniversary(as it's rare for me to rewatch toku anyway), this year I rewatched Kuuga,Time and PRLR and next year I'm definitely doing Gokai and PRTF and I was going to rewatch OOO but now I'm thinking I might even do Agito just to eventually have a 2000s majority for Kamen Rider lol |
I'll always prefer Movie War Core over Genesis on the pure fact that Core has that really fun Skull segment to take the place of the W segment in it.
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This is the thing of Movie War Core, and I might as well get these thoughts out before I get to it -- W portion is cool; OOO portion sucks; W/OOO teamup is a fun popcorn flick. That should in theory net it an overall win but, gosh, we'll see. We'll see.
Genesis I remember not liking at all, but I also remember a lot of my thoughts at the time being monopolised by "WHY IS STEINBELT THERE. WHAT IS HE DOING THERE" so I'm not really sure I analysed the movie? |
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I don’t like the OOO segment of Core, but I do find it to be a fascinating glimpse into a version of the show that we didn’t get to see.
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I found Genesis to be more forgivable simply for the fact that the entire movie was written by someone who never written for anything Tokusatsu. So I can chalk all the incosistancy up to just uniformed writer. I can't fanthom why they got Toshiki Inoue of all people to do the OOO portion where the W/Skull and Crossover segment were done by people who actually worked on the shows.
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Given Inoue apparently wrote it before anything of OOO had actually aired (Or so I vaguely remember people telling me), he was probably free, and has enough of a reputation as a jobbing writer that if the main writer was too busy on the main plot, he'd be first choice. It's not as if Inoue writing just the movie is unusual, he did it for at least Blade too.
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Kobayashi was certainly busy, too -- OOO was just one in a long string of consecutive shows from her; Den-O, Shinkenger, Go-Busters, Toqger... and then there were Den-O movies around this time that she penned too.
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Kamen Rider OOO Episode 13
https://i.imgur.com/dRQ9O1L.jpeg Even when I have little to say about it, I love this show. This is another one of those times where we've got a set-up to next episode's conclusion, so it's hard to really say anything beyond wikipedia article-ing, so can I take this chance to say that this show is just fun to watch? The character dynamics are set up perfectly and naturally play out into something that's just... that's just so enjoyable! Highlights as of now for me include Gotou being forced into stupid menial jobs; Hina and Eiji laughing together about Ankh; Dr. Maki's body language going out of its way to be weird when he's otherwise speaking in monotone; and Chiyoko going absolutely wild and crazy in her own restaurant. I have to imagine she was just always like this and that's the entire draw of Cous Cousier to begin with -- I'd sure as hell go there! It's very easy now for me to see what it was I loved about this show; I'm a sucker for characters above everything else, so something as bursting with life as OOO is perfect for me even before we get into deeper meaning! And there's details beyond that that, yeah, I'm just gonna take this space to note them because I'm not sure what other chance I'll get. I remember of course that Ankh and the rest of the Greeed can sense a yummy, but I only really remembered it as them having some sort of innate sense... but what they're picking up on is the sound of their cell medals clinking. That is so amazingly perfect and is maybe one of the best descriptions of the Greeed I can imagine; literally having a fine-tuned sense to the sound of money. Talking of the Greeed, how have I not mentioned their awesome-as-hell curtains? It is such a bombastic sense of style it almost wraps around into being pointless but it adds so much character and theatrics to any scene they're in -- I think Tokusatsu has a charm very similar to a panto or a stage play, so going with things like this fits like a glove. It doesn't make any sense to anything going on, it's just here to look cool and be memorable, and that's why it's amazing! I guess going off of that, something else I'm realising I like about OOO and other shows like it from around this time; something that's unfortunately missing I find in most modern Toku outside of Ultraman? The appearance of Kamen Rider is an event. It's saved till the very last, there's always so much time dedicated to medals being slotted in; there's a lot of untransformed fighting and investigation before then with many allies like Ankh and Gotou who can't transform; there's a wonderful fanfare to it all. It'd be nigh-impossible to do something like that these days with how many Riders are running around and how that's just treated as the norm, and that's fine and fits shows like Ex-Aid and Saber; but it certainly feels like... this is a show about human lives first, and that strengthens the Rider portions. I'm still not sure how to put it, but I've got a lot of feelings about how this era of Rider handled things. Kamen Rider Ghost Episode 9 https://i.imgur.com/jL2MTaY.jpeg Lots going on in this episode! You've got the Benkei eyecon (leading to all 15 now existing); you've got a big lot of backstory focus; a new villain entering the fray; and they even throw in Takeru learning why Specter's fighting just for free. And somehow it all works out! I'm a big fan of when an episode is able to balance so many things at once like this; I've previously praised the likes of Zi-O's Blade tribute for it and I'm getting similar vibes here (just, without the Undead). I'm particularly in love with Takeru and Makoto here, though -- on Takeru's side, he's at this point decided that he's going to help Makoto do whatever he wants, and that's a decision that hits when it concerns someone who's done nothing but attack attack attack since his debut. It speaks a lot to Takeru's faith in everyone around him and especially in the friend he once knew - and maybe how desperate he is as well? And with Makoto, there's one particular line I love in all this -- Takeru's accusation that he's forcing himself to act like this. A lot of Makoto's acts and behaviour so far have felt over the top, so Takeru seeing through it like this makes the whole thing seem so much more clever. It's easy to believe Makoto disregarding everything else he cares about because he thinks it'll get in the way of helping the person he cares for most; contrasted with Takeru who he's constantly derided for taking on a lot of goals at once and caring about too much. This is the sort of primary/secondary rider drama I love! The Benkei Eyecon I recall kinda getting glanced over compared to the others... and true enough, there's a lot more focus going on here. At least Billy got saved by featuring in a whole 2-parter for some reason, but here it's difficult to see Benkei being assigned to Igarashi as anything other than "he's just the last toy they had to promote". Granted, I don't know a lot about Japanese history so maybe Benkei is very apt; but nothing in the episode really tells me anything about the guy beyond "he had a friend" that would link him to Igarashi. Talking of Igarashi... I wanted more of him! It's tragic to see him killed off like this so easily when he's exactly the sort of character Takeru would act off of perfectly; an old friend of his dad's who'd lost all hope. It's at least nice to see a contrast to Saionji blaming Ryu for everything last episode, but it feels so glossed over for what it is. Only real negative in an episode otherwise packed with good moments. |
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Naturally, OOO is a great example of doing it right, because it's a great example of how to do most things right. Quote:
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Kamen Rider X Kamen Rider: OOO & W feat. Skull
Skull: Message for W https://i.imgur.com/owrLctU.jpg Pretty fun! But you knew that already, right? When people talk about War Core sucking as a movie, 90% of the time it will come with the caveat of "W portion was good, though". And yeah, it is! It's a really great noir movie set in ~Some Years Ago~ where we get to see a whole story featured around Sokichi Banba, as if we were getting a backdoor pilot to Kamen Rider Skull. I'm personally not too convinced that it's as good a detective story as most W episodes were, even if the twist is interesting; but it's exciting and enjoyable on its own and that's all it needed to be. Special shoutout for me personally goes to all the physical, practical action going on; all the stuff in the construction site with Skull struggling under frontloaders and then the big huge action piece with the Skullgarry versus a giant tanker truck? SICK! Exciting through and through. ... I kind of hate that this is in this movie, though. Don't get me wrong, it's a great Skull Returns movie... but the poster says W & OOO. This is a W & OOO crossover movie. Get your own spot. The movie opens with a shot of Philip and Shotaro once again going Cyclone, Joker, Henshin!! and it got me so pumped up to see a little bit of these guys again during my OOO rewatch... only to realise that, yeah, they're barely in this; and the same goes for Terui, Akiko, any of the excellent supporting cast; we don't even get any villains back for a second, either. It's just such a huge huge shame to not have a fun story featuring these characters again for one last rodeo like most Movie Wars tend to do. Skull Returns is good for what it is, but not what should have been here. https://i.imgur.com/p5jrsdi.jpg OOO: Nobunaga's Desire https://i.imgur.com/1pgWXTQ.jpg Quote:
This sucks. Contrary to what my many posts on the matter of Zero-One's last third might lead you to believe, I don't actually like talking about things I don't like for too long. Past the point of productivity it's just not fun for anyone involved, and what's kept me in Toku is how good everything feels and very few things can really elicit a reponse of anger from me even if I don't like, say, Kabuto or Ninninger. All of this to say I do not intend on talking about this for long and you can probably understand why. Beyond how nothing in this matches up with the show's continuity - which, if you know anything about me; beyond a moment of hilarity at Eiji having the Medal Holder months before it's supposed to be introduced and exclusively used by Ankh; I don't care too much - it's astonishing how much this doesn't get what OOO is about. There is a scene where Nobunaga straight up asks Eiji "How can you possibly live without desire?!" and Eiji responds "Well... I just enjoy life, you know... and, the sky is always blue :)" and the ending has Nobunaga tragically despair over not understanding this and WOW, MY GOD, I'm open to big discussions on the meaning of a text and different interpretations of it and what you personally got out of it but I cannot imagine understanding Eiji's character and the entire point of OOO as a series any less than this. Kind of, just, wow. I distinctly remember, I think maybe last year, a little after I joined the board; Fish posted something about the movie along the lines of "OOO has this wonderful nuance of toeing the line between never completely condoning greed or a lack of it, which Core completely misunderstands", and... wish I could link to it, but that's pretty much it. Abandons all the nuance of the show for something that's barely saying anything interesting on its own. Oh, and like Skull; this is barely about Eiji at all. Since it's not 99% a flashback he actually does get to be in this, but he's demoted to supporting cast member at best to make way for Nobu. So the movie called W X OOO barely features W or OOO. Sweet. Fun fact by the way -- Ankh is basically non-existent. He has a single scene a third of the way in motorbiking around at night for... some reason, notices the Nobu Greeed off-screen and doesn't interact with any of the cast at all. The scene lasts about a minute, and his only other scene is a few seconds during the final fight where he points at the TaToBa suit and calls Eiji dumb. It really feels like Inoue just completely forgot Ankh existed until the last second. why do you have all the Shauta and Gatakiriba medals?! https://i.imgur.com/6uDDyVu.jpg Movie War Core https://i.imgur.com/4KUJ1sd.png Fun? Fun. Fun. This is 15 minutes of pure unadultered popcorn flick rubbish featuring W and OOO using their most powerful forms to destroy a giant flaming Ichigou before Eiji lands in Rio so the production crew can get a holiday. What more do you want? Well... I would have liked more interactions to be sure. Shotaro screaming and freaking out over OOO having a floating disembodied arm following about is easily the highlight of the entire movie and I'm sad this couldn't have been the whole thing. I miss this idiot! I'm gonna have to rewatch W immediately after I finish this whole thing, aren't I? Not much more to say. Fun action sequence, wish I got more out of a movie featuring two of my favourite Riders. YOOOOO THEY'RE MAKING AN OOO/DEN-O MOVIE?! HOLY SHIT!!!! https://i.imgur.com/tSo02Cq.jpeg |
I always found it a funny dichotomy that all of the W movies fit into the continuity rather nicely, but every OOO movie straight up CAN'T be canon even if Toei staff insist otherwise.
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I think the only thing in the other two that puts things at odd is the medal count, right? I'm easily able to overlook that as opposed to... the entire premise being different.
Talking of medals, this is the first instance of "We-can't-use-Gatakiriba-anymore-we're-so-sorry-we'll-put-him-in-every-movie-even-8-years-later-to-make-up-for-it". He gets to do a totem pole here! Good fun |
In terms of the Brakawani movie, not only was the medal count one that never existed in the show proper, but uh, let's just say that if it does infact take place where Toei says it does, then a couple of the characters in that movie shouldn't even be there.
And that's not even getting into the Brakawani medals themselves being a giant loose plot thread. |
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(Not gonna hide this at all; I adore this movie) |
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I definitely know what you mean about wanting more W in the W and OOO movie, by the way. You'd think doing a movie that's one part W, one part OOO, and one part W+OOO would be simple enough, but Movie War Core misunderstands OOO so badly they couldn't even figure out how the concept of splitting things into thirds works. :lol |
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It's similar to what I said with Inoue's writing on Kuuga -- he's a very blatant writer; very in-your-face, and that's not a bad thing... it just is not compatible with Kuuga. Or Hibiki. Or OOO. I'm surprised he pulled it off with Ghost! |
Imagine if the Nobunaga in this Movie War, in Ghost, and in Over Quartzer were all the same person.
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Kamen Rider X Kamen Rider Ghost & Drive: Movie Wars Genesis
https://i.imgur.com/yJk9wc0.jpg So. Uh. Don't like this one either. It's not War Core, I can definitely say that! After my rewatch of that movie yesterday I think I can certainly say it's my least favourite Rider crossover movie, and perhaps Rider movie just as a whole. And I'm counting the SHTs there. So Genesis is definitely not on that level! ... I just didn't get anything out of it. Crossovers with series I don't like like Gaim or Drive are off to a bad start in the first place with me, but thankfully one thing I can give this movie is that it's all the things I liked about Drive (wonderful character dynamics, funny character dynamics) without all the flaws; and some of the best scenes in the movie are that cast's interactions with Ghost's, a cast that this rewatch has made me grow a newfound fondness for. There's some ~interesting~ choices such as Makoto just being part of the gang and Steinbelt being around 10 years ago with no emotional pathos and all of three lines, but those aside I could really sum up the best traits of this movie as what I feel are those of Drive's -- it's a very funny movie when it wants to be and I love how Shinnosuke reacts to and bonds with Takeru. Takeru has some very lovely scenes in this with this emotional reactions to seeing his father alive again and wanting to keep him around, and Shinnosuke acting as not just his senior Kamen Rider but as his senior human being who's gone through similar things... it's great. It's a perfect teamup when it wants to be; I recall that in a few future crossover materials Takeru will refer to Shinnosuke in terms of respect and as someone he looks up to, and that's exactly what I get here! But what makes this movie fail for me, then? Because I've just given a glowing review of most parts of it. ... young Takeru. Like, here's the thing; the whole emotional core of the movie is formed around this 8 year old version of Takeru growing confident in himself and learning to be a ghost hunter so his life can burn bright -- much like W, Drive and Zero-One's crossover movies this is meant to be a movie that provides the series' backstory and a look at what came before with some emotional pathos (and this time time travel) thrown in. The problem for me is that this is exactly what Takeru's arc is in the modern day. It's precisely what I've been loving him for on this rewatch -- his lack of confidence portrayed wonderfully through his acting; his growing to respect himself with friends by his side gently nudging him; eventually living up to the legacy his father left behind. I just don't get anything out of learning that 8 year old takeru already went through that same development - and in VERY bad taste as well when it comes across less as personal growth and more as adults around him guilt tripping a child and thrusting a sword in his hands. I think it would instead have been a better choice to focus on contrasting modern Takeru with past Takeru; showing just how much he's grown and having his father recognise that and be proud of him. But there's no such link, and his father at the end saying "it was me who brought you here and you're great" rings hollow as a result. Chase is back though! God I love Chase. They really made me cry at him dying AGAIN, huh; bastards these guys are. God I love a good third rider with an emotional journey of learning the best of humanity and arguably becoming the best of them. Hey, who's that...? https://i.imgur.com/qlRu9iG.png |
I overall think Genesis is pretty decent. The best part is the Takeru and Shinnosuke just hanging out in the past. Honestly I'm glad that the Movie Wars ditched the whole 3 Act formula. It was also cool to see Tenkuji Ryu in his prime. (In similar vein seing Soreo in Reiwa The First Generation.)
Honestly the main problem with the movie was how weird the movie is with continuity things like Mr.Belt in the past and Ryu death being completely different from the show. Looking at the writing credits this movie was written by Makoto Hayashi who not only didn't work on either Drive or Ghost but this his first and currently only Tokusatsu work he's done. In fact the Ghost Novel has even retcon this movie to be an alternate timeline like Ryuki Episode Final or Faiz Paradise Lost. It's just really weird to give a complete newcomer with no experience with anything toku related a crossover movie which also permenatly ditches the Movie War Formula. |
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It dosen't help that when the guy was writing the movie certain elements of Ghost weren't finalized. (Such as Makato being a good guy) And in the end the crew knew that what happend in the movie was going to be different from the show and were fine with that. So at the very least they were upfront about it being inconsistant.
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You know, they could do a female version of that suit in pink and I'm sure she'd be a major player in the show's final battles. |
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Takeru and Shinnosuke getting to hang out is THE best part of the film, hands down. I was honestly quite fond of the Movie War formula (though naturally, Mega Max did it best with the short bridging scenes), but I think the chemistry the two main Riders get in this one makes a compelling argument in favor of just doing a straightforward crossover. It gets some good mileage out of the concept. Everything else is a bit of a blur. I remember Belt-san not belonging in that bush; I remember liking Takeru's scenes with his kid self even though the writing is sloppy; I remember not feeling that sad when Chase disappeared (it's a good scene, but you just can't top how it went down on TV); I remember loving that it ends with Drive's wedding; and I remember Belt-san not belonging in that bush SERIOUSLY WHAT WAS HE DOING THERE I JUST DON'T UNDERS— It was a decent but weird film, was the point. Far from my favorite, far from my least favorite. |
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Kamen Rider OOO Episode 14
https://i.imgur.com/DuH2SPp.jpg I don't have an awful lot to say about this one right now, but we'll see where it goes. It's just one of those episodes that does a good job at speaking for itself, and I don't have too much to add -- the characters of the week are a lot more sweet than you'd expect, there's a lot of emotion riding on Hina, the action refuses to let up set variety as much as it can, and the yummy design is so horny it could have been on Blade. But... hey, actually, let's comment on some of those; I've REALLY been appreciating OOO's set variety as the series progresses. Aside from our intentionally recurring ones you've also got that sidewalk with the benches from the first episode that quite a few stories including this one comes back to so much that I'm about ready to dub it The Ankh Sidewalk, but beyond that what this series has used for its action scenes is a lovely mix. Sometimes you get suburban areas, sometimes you get more foresty or park-y areas like this episode, sometimes you get . I won't chastise modern Rider series for not doing this as it unfortunately seems out of their control, but little things like this do a LOT for making your world feel a lot more real and just allow it to breathe more, y'know? Even though it's a wild switch in location, the fact it's not the fifth time we've seen this location makes me buy into it a lot more. Hina is absolutely the darling of this episode. Takada really puts in a convincing performance here -- even if Shingo's near-death experience is eventually resolved with an Ankh moment which reminds me that OOO is way funnier than it's given credit for, you seriously feel for the girl and it's no less serious. I've said in previous episodes that her having no-one but Shingo really struck me, and it comes to the fore in this one. Great performance all around! Which, of course, brings us back round to the characters of the 2-parter. Something I find Kobayashi particularly good at is tying in these one-off characters to whatever's going on with the main cast, so a woman performing on her seriously injured father to try and save his critically endangered life? Perhaps a bit on the nose, but just fantastic. It's a great turnaround from the last episode too where it looked like the director was keeping her down for no reason, but the revelation of his being the surgeon's father is something that's stuck with me for a while and effortlessly re-contextualised everything. Ties the episode's elements together expertly as always! This isn't even going into all the other things going on in this episode -- the other Greeed taking advantage of the distraction to gain more power, Gotou's continuing storyline, Maki's creations slowly bearing fruit... I like how many things Kobayashi's able to shove into an episode while still making it feel very natural. One last thing: this line really gets me. Like really, really gets me. Maybe it's because it reveals more about Eiji than it seems at first, maybe it's because it's something that resonates with me, but I like it a lot. https://i.imgur.com/Xr1oKqM.jpg https://i.imgur.com/lMVqpie.jpg Kamen Rider Ghost Episode 10 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...75/unknown.png I've always liked this part of the show. Like, to an extent it worried me that that would make this part of the show not as interesting for me -- I've thankfully been proven wrong as the past 10 episodes have given me a lot more to appreciate than I thought, but at the end of the day this first arc of Ghost is not one I ever had a problem with. It's extremely solid storytelling with a perfect emotional arc to it -- Takeru has to gather the eyecons to come back to life; his childhood friend comes out of nowhere to oppose him, and now we've reached the apex: Takeru finding out someone's in the exact same situation as he is, and despite the entire season showing at multiple points how indecisive and hesitant to choose anything he is; he instantly knows that he's going to prioritise Kanon's life over his. Not all of that hit me quite as much as it does now, but deciding to focus on saving Kanon's life no matter what is always a decision that's been distinctly Kamen Rider and one that's defined Takeru's character for me for a while now. As the episode develops there's also a lot of wonderful nuance to it, as Takeru straight up says he can't just choose between two lives, but at the same time he can't ignore someone else in danger. It's a perfect summation of the philosophy Riders tend to follow and I'm starting to understand just why this one is a good fit for its 45th anniversary: I love this franchise and this series is going out of its way to remind me at every opportunity why that is. Maybe one day Tokushoutsu will actually come to the UK and I'll get to watch Rider 71 in all its glory, but for now? For now Takeru has already developed into an excellent main rider and one that I appreciate a lot. Very excited to see where things go from here. Oh, right, some other things happened in this episode; right? Ganma Superior - Javert's Ganma form - may have come a bit out of the blue to fill the role, but he's an AWESOME final boss for the arc. Instantly threatening and doing something I've loved about the Ganma designs for a while now: mirroring Ghost and Specter's designs. This had already been achieved well through the Ganma being simple black undersuits that then wear historical figure-inspired hoodies, but Ganma Superior takes it a step further by looking like such a perfect corruption of our heroes that I'm almost disappointed Zi-O's Another Ghost didn't take inspiration from it. Just an absolutely fantastic suit design, one of my favourite kaijin bosses! Not that Heisei provides a lot of competition in that area with its many many evil Riders, but even so. It'd be hard to beat. |
One thing I remember about this two parter for OOO is that the head of the hospital was Mr. Titan in Kamen Rider Stronger and was later Nanba in Kamen Rider Build. He’s the only actor who played two characters on TV Tropes’ Complete Monster page for Kamen Rider (A list that has representatives from every Rider except X, Super-1, Black RX, J, Hibiki and Ghost [Saber isn’t finished yet, so it doesn’t get candidates yet], with major additions being the Great Leader, Daguva, Asakura, 3 members of Checkmate 4, Dr. Maki, Ryoma Sengoku, Masamune Dan, Evolt and he most recent addition As)
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In just a couple words, Eiji goes from giving heroic advice, to sounding like he's sharing quick tips on how to save on your electric bill or something. I can't describe it very well, and it probably doesn't seem like a big deal, but little touches like these are what make me speak so highly of this show and its character writing. It's so distinctly Eiji, and so very much OOO. I seriously think it's a brilliant bit of dialogue. Quote:
Nah, I'm just messing around; of course I love Javert and the Ganma Superior design quite a bit, for pretty much these exact reasons. Heck, his suit even incorporates the classic "crusher" teeth looking bits, which actually makes him a little more Rider-y than Ghost and Specter? |
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