Yeah, I guess when Rintarou and Mei are such clear MVP's of the cast, it's not a surprise, but this was a great conclusion to a surprisingly solid little series. It makes a great pair with the Espada one, and builds to a really nice emotional payoff, where strong writing and some excellent timing with the theme song make a low quality photo from a cheap camera into a moment that mixes sadness and joy in this very particular way that's just perfect for remembering a lost friend. Not bad for a blatant scheme to get people to pay for another subscription service!

(I'd also just like to note that I think all three of us are starting to get at the same core idea here. I offered up my own definition, but I don't think the specific word choice is at all the important part. It'll be fun to see if this line of thinking takes Die anywhere down the line.)

Oh, and I barely talked about the actual episode, and it didn't come up in my old post, so let me just say -- I *adore* the whole table of contents conceit. The synopsis we got upfront for the show talked about how the world was created from a single book, and this episode starts giving us some wonderful hints to just how literal that might be. A lot of Calibur's dialogue in this one got me really hyped about where the story could eventually be heading.

At the risk of ruining The Magic Of Storytelling, lemme see if I can break down how the writing of that short story went.

The main thing is that I write these quickly. After watching an episode, I'll immediately write up the analysis part of the post. (That's... maybe 30 minutes? At most?) Then I'll take a little break for maybe fifteen minutes to reorient my brain towards Fiction, and then write the short story.

I'm always on the lookout during an episode for a thing to explore: a background character, a weird location, a dialogue-free scene, Desast... just something where I can maybe react to the feeling of watching the show in a more figurative way. For the Espada special, it was that little camera, and the flashback scene.

I just like Mei and Rintaro a lot, so that tiny scene of them both freaking out over Rintaro winning the raffle was, like, Yes. I want to know more about what happened after that cut-away, and I want to know more Mei and Rintaro's little date.

My writing style for these short stories, like my writing style for everything, is bad. I don't have time to let an entire story develop in my brain, so I basically just need to figure out how it starts, and write from there. It's First Thought Best Thought all the way to the finish line, which I mostly can't even see when I start writing. (I've maybe had an ending in mind before I started writing, like, a half-dozen times.) It's like I'm trying to finish a test in school, and it's half an hour until Pencils Down. For this one, I don't think I even knew the story was from Mei's POV until a few paragraphs in?

For the specifics of the story, it was pretty much just thinking about Rintaro, thinking about Mei, extrapolating out what their relationship was like circa that early episode, and then trying to get it all done quickly. Rintaro wins on the first spin because 1) he's on a mission at that point, and he's not going to waste an afternoon on a game, 2) it's more interesting if he gets it off the bat, because it's so unexpected, and 3) much like the Swordsmen episode, there's no time for more development. You gotta get moving.

The weirdest part was Rintaro also having done some pre-raffle research on the instant camera, though. As soon as he's like Oh It's An Instax Mini -- a thing I did a Google search on a few nights earlier after zooming in on the lens in Swordsmen Ep 3 -- and talked about how he'd read up on it out of desire, I was freaking out. It's... it's a very weird amount of overlap, those two specific points of their stories.

But, yeah, it was mostly just working fast and knowing the characters, as insufficient an answer as that might be. It's going to be weird for me forever!

Sure! I'll do my best to give it a read!

I'm glad you had a good time with it! It seems like an episode that either works brilliantly for folks, or it doesn't work at all. I definitely appreciated the show trying to draw more direct parallels between the two Sabers during their battle, but I just got way too distracted by how unbelievable Kamijo's details were. If this show gets a little better at pacing its mysteries and reveals, I'm sure I'll be right there with you for the next big climax.

I 100% teared up when Rintaro looks at Kento's picture. Rintaro's such a big-hearted doofus, and his desire to commemorate his family -- and probably finally feel validated and accepted -- had such a bittersweet pay-off with that moment. It was really the perfect Rintaro scene.

Tbf, the Book Club now made better impression on me with them whooping the Rider's ass untransformed, though otherwise, there's not much going for them for now yeah, but dunno (as a first watcher) if this'd be more like MetsubouJinrai.net in Zero-One, or just end up like Time Jackers. Otherwise (perhaps I've asked but forgot the outcome), do you only use the term generic for something not clicking with you? It does happen more to the disliked story part, for my experience yeah, like how primary Riders like Touma are the ones most often getting labeled as generic, with secondary Riders not, even when as you said, Rintaro was a breath of a fresh air compared to the Teruis or Fuwas (which'd mean being an edgy asshole is another 'generic' in its own right). I'd say there's no such thing as "generic" now, every fictional series had all ideas being done, redone, retold, and recycled ad nauseam.

Though Kamijo is far from one of the most despicable villains, actually an anti-villain (thus was sort on path of redemption after his fight with Touma here, easier to be reasoned with), I do think that what Kamijo did is too drastic when compared to the scale of the events, more like about how just a single dramatic event drastically changes one's outlook in life completely and totally. N̶o̶t̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶d̶r̶a̶s̶t̶i̶c̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶G̶a̶i̶/̶T̶h̶o̶u̶s̶e̶r̶'̶s̶ ̶b̶a̶c̶k̶s̶t̶o̶r̶y̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶Z̶e̶r̶o̶-̶O̶n̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶o̶u̶g̶h̶.̶ It's more like how Kamijo now believes that the end justifies the means due to said single event (and even still feels that when encouraging Touma, thinking that to get resuls he may have to sacrifice his friends) and lump all humans together with Hayato and the ones pulling the strings behind Sword of Logos to deem them as all bad in previous episode.

The point of this was actually to show that the Sword of Logos aren't all benevolent as it appears, perhaps similar to how some people when little may think that factions meant to serve people like police force, military, or government are all good, but actually no like corrupt cops for example. But I do think that, though the point is actually pretty clear that the Sword of Logos became corrupt and lost its ways, Kamijo's actions are still vague as hell like, what helps him to expose the corruption behind Sword of Logos honestly in all the atrocity and ruthlessness he did (other than how Kamijo's a dangerous villain by accumulating all those experiences). Perhaps like before for what I said, more is still needed to be revealed for Kamijo, and he was literally backstabbed by Desast before that, all Kamijo did was the being power-hungry part, as if power alone will be enough to expose social problem. It's not enough to make it only about the Sword of Logos setup, but I just feel that Saber didn't really care about Kamijo's writing and only care more about establishing a premise.

Unfortunately Saber does have a reputation as a mediocre Kamen Rider show by the fanbase, though obviously opinions can vary like those that deemed it as badly executed in the first half but improved later. Otherwise, Mei's overall character so far is someone who is a normal human but is eager to prove her worth to the Sword of Logos, but, though I obviously won't look down on her moves here like the rousing speeches, that doesn't seem to be a move that'd prove herself to some audiences - they tend to acknowledge normal human's involvement like if they're scientists who is behind the Rider's tools or keeping up with superpowered in a fight as human. Regarding your story here, I kinda think Mei is more in the wrong regarding her treatment to Touma, like other than her pushiness, I kinda feel that Touma's shortcomings would be overlooked if Mei finds Touma hot or charming.

I'd think that for open-mindedness, it should mean that talks about stuffs that don't work with you is more open when there'd be someone defending or explaining the worth of it, and not brushing it off at least immediately. It can be perhaps hard to acknowledge the worth and instead still got reminded by the faults if you won't agree with the defenses but still. Obviously, not blindly agreeing with those explanations or praises (and in reverse, not agreeing with the complaints about the faults).

For the 'people' I mentioned there, I refer to the irl audiences who watches the show and make up the fanbase. There are villains who do justify like that, but the audiences buy those words like gospel... Your examples of anti-villains (except maybe Bacht) are not examples of those though, they're among most depraved villains in the entire franchise (Gai would be if they didn't shoehorn redemption for him), Gai is the "amoral psychopathic (though more like sociopathic) types who rely on good publicity" type, and though Ohma Zi-O parted amicably with his past self, he had tried to corrupt him (like Daguva) to see which timeline his past-self would destroy and how he would go on about it, his action didn't stop in making his world a living hell. It's not righteous justifcation alone that makes an anti-villain, it can be just ways to escape responsibility and get free pass or freedom.

We?re not quite there for me, but we?re on the cusp. The big plot point that made the show into something I genuinely anticipated each week is coming up in the next episode or two.

But for now, let me talk about Mei, since the subject is on the table. When the show first started I was positive that I would find Mei to be intolerable. I don?t know if I?ve ever mentioned this, but I wasn?t the biggest fan of Onari on Ghost and I saw a lot of signs early on that Mei was going to fill that kind of ?human cartoon? comic relief role and they did not instill me with a lot of confidence. I definitely didn?t expect her to turn out to be one of my favorite characters, but the show generally toned down the more excessive elements of the character as it went on and focused more on how she fit into the cast and less as a vehicle for slapstick (I say ?generally? because you can always tells when Fukuda was writing an episode as Mei becomes about 300% more cartoony).

For me, she?s probably the heart of Team Saber and a lot of my favorite character moments come from her interactions with Touma, Rintaro, and a couple of characters that haven?t been introduced yet. I also appreciate the fact that, at some point, she started standing up straight, although I don?t remember if she ever ditched the child?s backpack (I compared her to Onari above, but it?s more accurate to say that she was very much Shunpei 2.0 under Fukuda?s pen).

Also, fun trivia note, we are now at the point in the series where someone on this board began making constant posts about how much they wanted Mei to become the new Espada.

It's definitely a pejorative, but I think I try to only use it for concepts or plots, not for characters. Any character is likely to feel specific because of the actor, the costume, the staging, etc. But concepts and plots can get incredibly generic; I can't count how many Heisei shows leaned on Gathering Data in their early run of episodes to explain a villainous plot that just flung MotW at the heroes so they could show off form change gimmicks and collectibles. That's a generic approach, because it could be grafted directly onto a completely different show without altering much.

I don't think I'd ever consider a hero/main character on these shows to be generic, though? There are tropes and character types, but each writer and performer makes them unique.

Mei's great because she's basically the Editor for this group of weirdos: she's the one responsible for getting the best work out of them, to harness their individual efforts into something approaching a coherent body of work. That might mean assigning work, but it might also mean helping them through some mental blocks. Also, gorgeous. (Not exactly relevant to the conversation, but I thought it was worth getting on the record.)

And, MAN, I would love to see Mei become the new Espada. Don't think it'll happen, but I would be thrilled.

I'm going to chime in and second Rintaro and Mei being the stand-out members of the cast right now. Sure, Touma is our hero, the saver of the day, the protagonist/cheerleader to this group of swordsmen he met like 3 weeks ago, but solid, dependable, straight-forward-but-still-kinda-weird Rintaro and overly-energetic but responsible Mei... it's almost a shame their dynamic with each other is better than it is with Touma, but he has his own little thing going on with Kento, so I guess it's only fair the two "relatively" more stable characters get to pair off.

And I haven't had much to say about the Swordsmen specials, mainly because, while they're nice to fill in details around the edges of these early few episodes (and Saber really needs that breathing space at this stage), I struggle to remember the details of them. But that's not really a critique, they serve perfectly fine, great even, and while they're not Zi-O .5 episodes, maybe what we got is just as good.

Oh, and on the topic of Mei becoming a swordsman, it's on idea I'm not super enthused by. I think it's a reaction to recent shows deciding everyone has to be a Rider to matter, as if you can only contribute by personally detonating monsters. And I get it, but I feel Mei's role in the story is different? It's not a position I can defend well, especially when the SOL really needs some EDI stuff ("We've seen older Kenzan as a woman! You can't rely on that one token, Sophia!"), but idk.

I wonder if you'd think Rintaro's one of the main hook of the show (which at this point, I get it), and also as a nice secondary Rider, what kind of story you'd expect for him later on in the future, perhaps other than conflicts like him against Kento in ep. 11. As regarding fanbase, the most loved character in Saber by fanbase is someone not introduced yet at this point (but has made some cameos). I'd say though as the other comments including yours said, Rintaro has an introduction of him rubbing Touma and Mei the wrong way and dat smile, his lack of experience seemingly did more damage to him than just thinking that valuable family is being a good swordsman. There's also a later irony, regarding in how Rintaro chastises Kento for not being good at handling emotions.

Not at first, but perhaps Mei is learning to get through people better (at least in comparison to how she treated Sora before where she's hella pushy, though that's 1 time), at least starting from the person she loves. I do think it makes sense though to try cheering him up using something she knew made him happy before like the tickets or the eclairs. The one that gets him to open up is when Mei brings up about the reason behind Kento's actions, so perhaps by this, it's that you gotta bring up the topic that is directly related to someone's grief (but it's still not guaranteed) instead of using something else as a distraction to try 'forgetting' it, then instead reminding how strong Rintaro is from that including, how Kento looks up to him for that. Rintaro has problems in socializing, including to Mei herself if she remembered their first meeting, Mei should continue to guide him against the human world and also socializing.

Yeah, Touma... not really my guy at this point? I much prefer nearly any other pairing/grouping of characters, since they've got more weird edges. (Like, we haven't even seen Touma run a bookstore or struggle with a deadline in a while, which are his main things!) Rintaro's earnest helpfulness and lack of any amount of guile is such an unusual way to tell this story, where he comes of like the better-socialized brother of Tsurugi from Kabuto. And Mei! Mei's this lady who throws herself into any dynamic and figures out how to make it run better, which is a great Civilian role for a show like this.

For sure! They make a great pair, with Rintaro as her guide to the superhero elements of the story, and Mei as his guide to the regular world.

I got so caught up in the spectacle of that scene that I totally forgot to give due praise to Mei here, so thanks for bringing that up. Her simple contribution of heart is absolutely critical for encouraging the Swordsmen to do their part for Touma's sake.

Yeah, tell me about it! I've watched this twice now (feels like thrice after reading your surprisingly accurate fanfic though) and cried both times. After several episodes of high stakes fast-paced action, this subdued moment to reflect on all that our weary Swordsmen have been through and specifically, how badly Kento's tragic death has affected the usually cheerful Rintarou, to make him feel like a helpless failure, before Mei gives him that sweet pep talk assuring that Kento truly believed in him even knowing he was about to die.... Those emotions just punch me in my heart all at once! I'd thought Episode 15 was already an appropriate place to conclude this arc, but then we get this simultaneously tearful and inspirational encore with Blades Retsuden that says so much with so little. This show is always so full of pleasant surprises!

This also brings to question the motivations of Hayato, Kamijo and even the Megid trio for seeking it. Like, sure, Universal Truth, exposing the traitor, generically evil world domination, etc. But to an end that's still left to our imagination to wonder why they would believe it worth obtaining at all costs. Just makes all those unknown variables even more ominous to find out, what could be so terrible to induce such empty nihilism and apathy for human lives.

Got to love the Zooous flips.

Oh yeah, people IRL can be self-righteous about that way of thinking, which may imply they have biases for those characters they're defending. Anyway, I do think Oma Zi-O and Gai would fit the antivillain label though, albeit on the extreme side.

Oma Zi-O considered himself to have succeeded in becoming the greatest kindest demon king even after murdering half the planet and he's definitely not dependent on publicity since everyone hates him and even his IWAE man is secretly in cahoots with Quartzer to usurp him. Zi-O VS Decade also implies that overuse of his powers to create and destroy worlds turned Sougo insane, so his sense of morality is no longer in check with reality.

Gai is a narcissist, whose delusions of moral perfection are enabled by the validation he receives from society and the formative childhood trauma that pushed him to be 1000%. When revealing his involvement in Ark's corruption, he's totally oblivious to his culpability, instead citing humanity's malice for making Ark inclined towards genocide. Gai believes he merely provided an education and insists that Ark's conclusions from that are its own. Notice how it's only when his publicity is threatened that he's forced to evaluate his morality, where he realizes that he's actually a terrible person.

Haha, that was me. :lol

I mean, why not? What, with Ikazuchi being vacant now and the ED theme's Mei/Espada comparisons. Not sure what specific criteria a person is required to meet to get chosen by a Seiken Sword (other than arbitrarily having god kanji in their name), but I think Mei ticks most of the boxes for sure. On the topic of fanfiction, I actually read a series where an author ran with this idea.

Yeah, this show's character stuff... boy, it's just really good?