Aaaah, you went ahead and spoiled it! I was gonna wait until the end of the series to tell him that :p

Either way, yeah, that's something I learned recently too and lead me to massively recontextualise everything I felt about Ryuki and everything I thought I knew about it. It's why even though it didn't do much for me, I now have reams of respect for what it was trying to do and how it went about it, and what I said in the post just above is part of that.

And just to connect it to something else in your post: knowing all this now actually made me feel super guilty about what I said about it being a show made before Kobayashi really nailed down her 'touch', and what made her writing special. Like, first of all the general direction and conclusion of the show were not even majorly up to hers, for starters; but second of all the context of the time really does do a lot to show why particular writers wanted to tell a particular type of story.

All the stuff I loved about OOO and Toqger and Shinkenger and Den-O, about knowing what the right thing is but struggling to do that and struggling to live up to an ideal? Of the flaws associated with being a self-sacrificial saint; of falling into darkness when striving for the light; of losing everything important to you despite desperately trying to hold on... but still being able to come through the end of the tunnel just fine, with your altruism and your dedication to your loved ones holding strong against everything that tries to do it in? A lot of that is still present within Ryuki -- and the parts of it that aren't present, the parts that I felt were most important, aren't missing because Kobayashi hadn't figured it out yet; they're missing because they wouldn't be appropriate for this type of story.

It's like... it still hasn't changed my opinion of what Ryuki means to me on a personal level. It's good to know why I feel that way - a story about different ideals of justice clashing and questioning what is truly right works well for a 9/11 fallout and the type of things they want kids to think about, but naturally that means it won't resonate well with me in the type of world I currently live in and the problems the modern day has presented me with. But what it has changed is that I now entirely get where Ryuki was coming from, and it gives me a hell of a lot more respect for it and everyone involved!

The 9/11 thing is really interesting. I don't know that I'd've been able to pick that out (it's been so long that I don't immediately think of it has having an effect on art), but I can see it a bit. I mostly think the idea of taking kids who are confused or scared about living in a post-9/11 world, of not understanding what adults are talking about, and deciding the lesson they should learn is that The World Is A Complicated Place And Everyone Considers Their Actions To Be Just, like, goddamn.

It's interesting to me that, in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, folks wanted clear-cut stories of heroism, might makes right and villains are punished. But, just past the immediate aftermath, there was a lot of art exploring things like the chaos of warfare, liberty versus safety, ideological conflict, etc. Ryuki's maybe ahead of the curve for that? Feels like they got there a little early, at least compared to American art.

But, yeah, I can see those post-9/11 themes now if I'm looking for them. (I'm expecting some Sentai-ish themes to develop later, like The Power Of Teamwork and Our Diversity Is Our Strength and whatnot, I got ideas that I can't fully articulate that seem like they might come into play, I don't know, I don't watch Sentai, maybe all that stuff'll be unique to Ryuki if it comes to pass.)

To add on to the 9/11 connection to Ryuki here a article in english talking about it. https://tokusatsunetwork.com/2018/08...ction-to-9-11/
Growing up in post 9/11 world it kinda facinating seeing the before and after affect it had on Rider of all things.

My bad! :p

It's probably not a bad thing to have in mind while watching the series, either though.

Ahh, it's all coming back to me now! I think that exact article is where I first heard that. What that article doesn't mention that I find most fascinating is that apparently Shirakura is the one who decided teaching kids about justice meant doing something morally complex and challenging. The guy gets a lot of flack for things that are probably entirely deserved sometimes, but I think refusing to do a show that professes justice to a be a singular, unquestionable thing proves he has a good grasp on what the core values of the franchise are.

Winding it back to the Showa era with more historical trivia I only learned recently, the original Kamen Rider generally avoided being described as fighting simply for the nebulous concept of justice, but rather the specific cause of human freedom. This, too, was apparently a conscious decision since even the Nazis, whose fascistic dogma was of course a huge inspiration for bad guy groups like Shocker, would tell you they're in the right.

This uh- this conversation ended up getting pretty deep all of a sudden, huh? Man, hard to believe we're barely past Raia's introduction. Sorry if I'm making things a little heavy!

This also called back to in the epilouge of Wizard had Tsukasa proclaming that "someone" said that Kamen Riders aren't fighting for justice but rather humanities freedom. So this ideal is still carried over in the new shows as well

I know there are lots of comments before, but not to be attention-seeking, can you also check my replies before?

Shinji one is the precursor of something like Sento's dilemma. And Tezuka managed to memorize the symbol of Knight to draw it to predict him. Can we also talk on how the way Ren "consoles" Shinji? He didn't try to ignore him or something but he did ignore Shinji's ideals by just stating that Riders are meant to die. But Ren immediately notices what's going on when Shinji talks about how he didn't want Zolda to die, but saying Kitaoka mourns over "Zolda"'s death. And Ren...you say there's rare for someone as scummy as Kitaoka, but did you forget Scissors?? “He may be a fool, but he may be a better man than you or I.”

All because of the phone signal's fault. But can we also talk on how Goro, despite serving as Kitaoka's contrast before in morality, agreeing with him to do morally questionable things here to ruin someone's life?

Probably you think that the resolution is too easy for the characters? Like it's too simple that they just have Shinji bump to Kitaoka in some place, therefore seeing Kitaoka as the actual Zolda and Goro being alive. The character part is really conveyed well here tho.

Kitaoka plans to defeat other Riders isn't directly fighting him, which adds a variety on how to defeat Riders besides good-ol TATAKAE. This plan is foiled by Yui who shields him when Dragreder tried to eat him. Don't you think this moment is quite bizzare (will be important later, but as for now with no spoilers) that her presence can repel monsters?

Well yeah, the reason Ren ran away from previous episode, being a Rider in this series means detaching your humanity. And true Ren didn't technically kill Scissors but Volcancer did. Tezuka wants to crack that facade of Ren. And the end of episode showed that side of him somewhat with him not running away again. What do you mean by "Yui and Shinji’s version of him"? But I also have to ask, battle wise (I REALLY want to know about this!!), how did Knight's Final Vent to Raia went out? Did it miss, did it only scrape Raia? etc.? And even if it hit him, how did Raia survive? Is it due to Ren not being able to kill someone that he unconsciously holds back his Final Vent too like Raia?? (but his Final Vent penetrates someone's full body...)

I find it satisfying that Reiko vandalizes Kitaoka's photo....and him being totally in rage :p

Sorry! I have been reading everything, even if I don't reply to everything. Shit is... things are hectic. I'm trying to steer a business into new waters, and it's got some stresses associated with it. A ton of extra work, in very weird ways. I got good moments and bad moments. Sometimes, if it's a page of replies since I've logged on, I can manage a sort-of Reply All post, and that's about it. I do love the participation, though! It's a bright spot right now!

I don't know if I'd describe Goro that way? I think of Goro in a very traditional, There's Someone For Everyone way. Like, I think Goro sees something in Kitaoka that no one else sees, and that's why he's dedicated to him. I think he understands that Kitaoka is... let's just say not a perfect person. I think he's okay with doing something bad if Kitaoka asks him to. There're limits, but I don't think for a second that Goro would choose Shinji's mental well-being/possible monster devourment over Kitaoka's need to eliminate his Rider competition. That seems like an easy choice for Goro. Plus, like, tricking Shinji was hilarious.

I actually thought the resolution was the strongest part of the story. It all really came together in that lobby.

I mean, her having untapped monster powers is a pretty easy guess, so, no, I didn't find it hard to handle. Yui's abilities (when the show remembers to spotlight them!) are so nebulous that I'd be more shocked if the show explicitly stated she couldn't do something at this point.

The Yui and Shinji thing, it's about how they see Ren versus how he wants them to see him. Ren wants everyone to know that he's a killer, that he's going to do whatever it takes, brood brood brood MOTORCYCLE. But, like, Shinji and Yui don't really buy that? Yui thinks he's better than that, and Shinji wants to see him as someone who just needs a friend to show them a better way. I think they want to treat him as Not A Killer, so he'll stop thinking of himself as A Killer.

For Knight's Final Vent, I think you're right, in that I don't think Ren really wanted to kill Quarter. He's just not that guy, which is what a lot of this last story was about to me. I think he held off, didn't really give it his all. Maybe there's more to it than that, but that's how I read it.

There's shades to that, though. I think some of it is personal offense (HOW DARE THEY, etc.) and some of it is that his scheme blew up in his face, but I think there's more going on. You could read more into it, if you want. I think there's an element of them all teaming up against him that hurts him, that he doesn't really like to see people be kind, since that means (by default) he's being unkind. I don't think Kitaoka sees himself as some sort of manipulative asshole. He just thinks of himself as playing the game better than these naive dopes. When cunning people like Reiko and In It To Win It types like Ren are telling him he screwed up, I think that's going to hurt.

Or maybe I just like thinking more about Kitaoka? Could be!

I want to discuss not only the outer part of the episode (like a short opinion about some new characters), but the inner parts too, the trivias that are easily overlooked. I want not only you, but probably also others to read and know those inner parts of those episodes too, the easily overlooked minor informations. I want to share a review of Ryuki by someone else that follows that principle later, I think that's a masterpiece of review, anything someone misses or misunderstand like about Ryuki, that person may catch, but can only be done when your series here is done.

Goro did the right thing when Kitaoka did the wrong thing like to Yukari by comforting her, and then even "babysitting" her until Kitaoka sees that he's being a super dick, not super lawyer. He also later does things against his wish a bit like bringing Yukari again (you cannot bring child to his house) and not immediately coming home when he asks to (forcing Kitaoka to join Goro/Yukari at table). And later Goro stands up to Kitaoka for something less morally questionable than this one.

Oh wait...forgot that she's not normal previously where she can see and sense monsters before, the latter which came handy here where someone else's plan involve direct monster attacks.

Oh about what they think of Ren. He knows deep inside that he's still humane, he's softer than he thinks and cannot kill someone, and that will prevent him from winning the Rider War (which involves killing all other Riders). Knowing that he puts a psychopathic killer act to try detaching the humane side of him until he truly becomes like that. Especially more if it involves about another Rider like Shinji, that if Ren become friends with him he cannot lose and kill him. He may be nice to Yui from the start, if only that using her (monster sense and relation with Shiro) may help him win the Rider War. And Tezuka also doesn't buy that either and also wants to treat him as a not killer, obviously he's a Rider too like Shinji and thus Ren gives the killer vibe to him, but he tries to force himself to open up his true nature, in an attempt to stop the Rider War. A̶n̶d̶ ̶c̶o̶i̶n̶c̶i̶d̶e̶n̶t̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶h̶o̶s̶e̶ ̶3̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶m̶i̶n̶d̶s̶e̶t̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶R̶e̶n̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶w̶'̶s̶ ̶k̶i̶n̶d̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶p̶u̶r̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶r̶a̶c̶t̶e̶r̶s̶ ̶w̶h̶o̶ ̶w̶a̶n̶t̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶i̶g̶h̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶s̶t̶o̶p̶.̶

If you talk about Ren holding back, so that somehow he can hold himself in his Final Vent attack so that the tip of his Sword Vent won't impale his opponent? (Keep in mind his Final Vent is him wrapping himself in Darkwing who transforms into a drill, and using his Sword Vent as a tip to pry them open).

Like my paragraph above, something I wanna see in the discussion is like this; looking deeper into a seemingly minor moment and making sure other people to know about these topics too. I think he does see himself as an asshole where he gloats to Shinji about his abilities and how he frees an evildoer when letting him ride his car in ep. 7 and him mocking Ren in ep. 10 where he thinks his purpose is naive while gloating about caring only for yourself (a common scumbag trait) and be stronger because of that. Also Ren outright calls him an asshole multiple times and he brushes it off, also pointing out him being asshole is none of Ren's business. Like you say for Ren viewing himself as a killer before, Kitaoka also adopts that mindset being a Rider (do whatever it takes, etc.), to an even nastier degree that Ren is sick of him. For the photo though, it's simply Kitaoka not taking rejection well, he's is truly in love with Reiko btw.

I guess I don't know how much Super Lawyer Kitaoka is, like, a coping mechanism Kitaoka created. It's the old "no one thinks they're the villain of the story" aphorism, how folks can justify their own awfulness because they assume that they're good people, so their choices aren't so bad. (Like, Houjou in Agito, that's a dude who sees his actions as natural and correct, so people who disagree with him, or want to punch him in his goddamn face, are inevitably just misguided.) I feel like Kitaoka doesn't love it when a bunch of people are judging him, and while he can derive some joy in feeling superior, there's a core human being inside that maybe feels piled on at the end of that episode. Or, once again, maybe I'm assigning deeper emotions to Kitaoka because I think he's fascinating. A more evidence-supported inference is also totally cool.

As always, thanks for the fun thoughts! Sorry I couldn't give more, but I am top to bottom burned out today. A million shipping and payment questions from subscribers at work, and aborted effort on a new Point Of Sale system. Pretty much need to play Animal Crossing for a hot minute and then collapse into bed.

MASKED RIDER RYUKI EPISODE 15

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ryuki/ryuki15a.png

This one was... fine? Didn't totally click with me, and I'm not sure why that is. Didn't do anything wrong, but, I don't know. Just wasn't feeling this one.

(Also, hey, sorry it's been a second. My stores are closed to the public, which means we've got to do a lot more online orders for shipping and delivery, which is basically a 24/7 job right now. Orders come in at weird hours, everyone's got questions, the whole comics industry is in upheaval, it's a lot. It's a lot. The last few days have been, like, double work. Not a lot of time to even look at the boards.)

The stuff that I thought worked great, that did totally click with me, it's all of the Knight/Quarter stuff. I just, I really like how they're playing Ren's part in the story, as a guy who's trying so hard to be a friendless bad-ass that he's going to get himself killed for no good reason. That thing where he's just picking fights with anyone so that he can turn off the part of his brain that wants to be kind, that wants to have friends, to isolate and punish himself into becoming the person who can kill other Riders, I love that story. It's moody without being bleak, it's playing around with the Dark Hero trope, and it creates a very unpredictable version of Ren. I kind-of love how you can't tell what dumb/weird/mean/sad thing he's going to do next.

It helps that Tezuka's a big part of Ren's story. I love how he's, like, Ren's sponsor, trying to get him to quit being Kamen Rider I'm A Loner Dottie A Rebel and start being a healthy person who might actually survive these Rider battles. And it's, man, it's not like Tezuka has to be that clever! Ren sincerely just needs someone to talk to, and Tezuka's a guy who gets the stakes of what's going on, works in the same field as Ren (murdering monsters, an essential business), and has an insistence that never becomes too forceful. It's like water, smoothing stone over time. Tezuka just needs to keep letting Ren know that someone cares about him, and sees the lies he's telling himself, and it feels like a nicely humane solution to Ren's... just his whole Being Ren thing. (Dude is just a bundle of self-destructive tendencies and unprocessed grief.) I like it, all of the Knight/Quarter stuff. It's a richly dramatic storyline.

The main Ryuki one for this episode, though, yeah, just not feeling it. And, y'know, I love me some Ex-Aid, so a bunch of gamers getting killed thanks to the machinations of Kamen Rider Poor Man's Genm, seems like it should be right up my alley. Especially with the whole text of their battles being This Is Just Like What's Happening With The Masked Riders. (Thank you, Yui! Figured that one out on my own!) On paper, it all works. It's thematically resonant, and it echoes one of my favorite Kamen Rider series. But I thought it was fine, nothing more. Not bad, not at all, but I didn't really care much about what was happening, the case Shinji and Yui were investigating. (Also, Yui gets a job at ORE, because this show has two workplaces when it should really only have one. Clunky storytelling, but at least Yui's more in the mix.) The smarmy gamer assholes don't make much more of an impression than the beginning of this sentence, so I didn't really care why they were killing themselves. It's cool that there's a new Rider, and the fight between Ryuki and Poor Man's Genm was neat (I love that Poor Man's Genm has his driver in his shoulder, that's super unique), but the escalation in this story didn't feel that solid to me. I guess I mostly didn't care if a bunch of nerds want to have a Mortal Kombat fight club or whatever. The stakes, I didn't really feel into them. It was an alright story but, beyond that final fight with Ryuki and Poor Man's Genm, I was mostly checked out of it.

It's really the Ren/Tezuka stuff that popped this time out. They've got an undeniably compelling dynamic. More of them, please!

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ryuki/ryuki15b.png

And Tezuka has actual fighting skills, at least better than those Ren picked a fight with, managing to block his punch! B̶u̶t̶ ̶w̶h̶y̶ ̶T̶e̶z̶u̶k̶a̶ ̶d̶i̶d̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶h̶e̶l̶p̶ ̶R̶e̶n̶'̶s̶ ̶v̶i̶c̶t̶i̶m̶s̶, or he did but the scene got skipped. Also for bolded one: https://oi1301.photobucket.com/album...pspcpf6mkz.png

Now (I admit this is what I'm talking about for Ren previously) as he hardens himself because of Rider stuff, I wonder what makes him that way before he becomes a Rider, as his flashbacks with Eri showed. Also payback time for Shinji where Ren is the one breaking the dish in contrast to his waiter skills (Tezuka's fault!). Another trait or Ren's character is that he always runs away from his problems in contrast to Shinji, like after that moment, pretending to not have them, which extends to fighting and picking other people (what a thug) as coping mechanism to avoid his problems. This is a recurring trait of him too.

Works in the same field as Ren? I mean like every Rider, good neutral or evil, all kill monsters because to feed their contract monsters. Well, a forceful insistence is actually Tezuka's thing regarding Ren. Shinji is more easily frustrated to Ren and gives up more quickly. Yui brings his better side and quells his bad deeds but this good change is temporary (like when being around her only) as his mask isn't touched. Tezuka breaks his mask by keep bringing up things he wants to be secretive of, talking about his flaws, etc. He even c̶o̶m̶e̶s̶ ̶o̶f̶f̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶s̶t̶a̶l̶k̶e̶r̶ knows that Ren resides in Atori and he arrived there just to keep pushing Ren. Also have to say that Tezuka (well probably because he has some unarmed fighting skills) is brave enough to try to humanize a thug by constantly pushing his buttons, actually getting under Ren's skin (to an even worse degree than Shinji) and not caring about how angry Ren can get as long as he completes his objectives, risking out a big fight (and may actually happen in this episode with Ren grabbing his collar before Shinji and Yui arrive). In short Tezuka breaks his mask because he IS forceful.

I mean apart from Rider War, it's just that tournaments/competitions work...like that, competitors beating one after another until there's last man standing. Though Gai/Shibaura DID base his game on Rider War, so it being "This Is Just Like What’s Happening With The Masked Riders" is not a coincidence. I have to say this is one of the few non-monster related threats in the story, and the only way to stop this is to stop Shibaura, the Rider behind that. Wow the investigation for Matrix resolves much more quickly than the actual Rider War one, Shibaura being spotted at the end.

Ryuki does his biggest mistake here by drawing his card and not using it (because hesitation). It leads into Gai taking his Dragreder card, and that would lead into even worse stuffs next. Also scanning Final Vent card like Gai did , makes a very practical move with Metalgelas freeing his master (did you notice Metalgelas' horn snaps when ramming the monster?) and then performing Final Vent, performing both Advent and Final Vent at once, and makes me wonder WHY Zolda needs to use Advent card before scanning his Final Vent card in ep. 10, it makes his long start-up of his Final Vent even worse. And Gai having his card slot in his shoulder also makes one of the most practical one, Ryuki's one disables his left arm, and those with weapons have a good advantage with being armed before scanning cards, but they can be disarmed.

For minor one I have to wonder why did Shimada get jealous at Yui?
S̶h̶i̶n̶j̶i̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶j̶e̶a̶l̶o̶u̶s̶ ̶b̶e̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶Y̶u̶i̶ ̶o̶v̶e̶r̶s̶h̶a̶d̶o̶w̶s̶ ̶h̶i̶m̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶w̶o̶r̶k̶,̶ ̶h̶e̶ ̶g̶o̶t̶t̶a̶ ̶r̶e̶g̶r̶e̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶h̶e̶ ̶a̶s̶k̶e̶d̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶h̶e̶l̶p̶.̶ Also damn Reiko, having a lunch tray even more luxurious surprassing Okubo's?! And finally Shinji and Tezuka meet here, obviously Shinji being thrilled because meeting a Rider that is like him. They really should meet ASAP for a rare companion of each other. I wonder what Ren feels inside Atori, there's now 2 of them, do-gooder Riders.

Like you said there above for Ren, Kitaoka's also like him, trying so hard to be a friendless bad-ass, turn off the part of his brain that wants to be kind, that wants to have friends, to isolate and push himself into becoming the person who can kill other Riders. As Ren tried to push that mindset into Shinji, Kitaoka also tried to push this mindset into Ren in ep. 10 (who already has this mindset, but Kitaoka wants him to push him deeper into this, that he's presumed to be friends with Shinji). He has to harden himself like that to become stronger by being selfish (like Ren to can kill people), in order to win the Rider War and saves his life (immortal), continuting to enjoy himself as Super Lawyer (what coping mechanism? he has no bad experiences in life and that's what he plans to continue after winning the War). I still think that for "a bunch of people are judging him", it probably only applies to Reiko, as he's genuinely in love with her.

I mean, I think a lot of it is self-punishment. There's a self-flagellating aspect to Ren's Punching Random People In The Street, or shoving Shinji, where he wants people to fight back, to punch him, to punish him. He feels guilty for wanting happiness, he feels undeserving, so he acts out. He wants a fight to happen, to lash out and be lashed out against. The Rider fights make sense to him in the same way. It's different ways of him expressing one psychic wound.

Just a joke.

I don't really think of Tezuka's appeals to Ren as forceful, or at least not in Kamen Rider terms. I mean, Tezuka hasn't grabbed Ren by the lapels and screamed Morals in his face, so by that standard Tezuka's mostly been empathetic and present. What I like best about Tezuka's approach is how therapeutic it is, how much he keeps asking the same questions, or steering Ren's answers towards something honest. I would absolutely watch a Net Movie spinoff where Tezuka psychoanalyzes secondary Riders. I would watch the hell out of that.


Yeah, but, there's a difference between I Got It and I Liked It. I got what the show was doing, but I didn't really care about it. If it was innocent people being menaced, I'd be more invested. If it's a bunch of college dorks getting too wrapped up in a video game, I don't care that much. There's nothing structurally wrong with the plot, I just didn't care about it.

MASKED RIDER RYUKI EPISODE 16

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ryuki/ryuki16a.png

Well, that was pretty much completely insane. Some solid work done on the Tezuka/Ren plot, deep interrogation on Ren's character and the psychology he thinks is necessary to save the people he cares about, but most of this one is just deliciously bonkers. God bless how tonally extreme Kamen Rider can get in one episode.

We'll start, as per usual, with the Tezuka/Ren stuff. It's incremental, not revelatory, as Tezuka gets to push back more and more on Ren's bullshit, and Ren seems both more insistent about his I Didn't Come Here To Make Friends nonsense, while feeling more uncertain that it's true. There's just so much to Ren's character that this Tezuka plot has excavated. He's a guy who pushes people away, but only to keep them safe. He's a guy who tells people he doesn't care about them, because he cares so much it could get them both killed. He wants things, and he hates himself for wanting things because he doesn't believe he deserves them. And, Jesus, he's so transparent. It's awesome how quickly and how thoroughly Tezuka has Ren's number. Tezuka takes all of Ren's subtext and tells the audience, Hey, you were totally right to see that in Ren. There's not really much in this episode that's new, nothing we hadn't already figured out, but I could stand to watch a few more scenes of Tezuka trying to heal Ren's spirit. That's... it's nice that the show made room for that part of the story.

Which somehow sits just fine beside a story about a teenage hacker making the staff of Ore Journal his servants, and Ryuki being held at bay by a teenage bully with a lighter. It's nuts, this one. It's childish, and I maybe mean that as a complement? It's a very heightened comedy, with the absurdity of a college student (who looks like he's about 14) extorting a group of adults into cleaning the office, taking embarrassing staff photos (THAT MONTAGE), and generally behaving like this humiliation is a totally logical storyline. I laughed a bunch at it, it definitely worked as comedy, but it's a pretty big suspension of disbelief to hear this one out.

(The bit where Shibaura keeps threatening to burn up the Dragreder card, tough call on that one. On the one hand, funny. So funny, every single time. Shinji's so impotent in this one, more or less useless to every plot, and his rage is really entertaining. But, man, why doesn't he just punch that kid in the face and take back his card? I don't think Shibaura has any real-world fighting skills, so one quick jab to the face pretty much ends that plotline. Which, I get it, that's why Shinji doesn't punch him, but there are at least two points where someone could've decked Shibaura and at least ended his leverage over Shinji. You could argue Shinji doesn't because maybe Ore would get hurt by it, but I don't think Ren would care a lick about that. Minor quibble, I laughed a bunch, it's hilarious to see a superhero menaced by a child in an ill-fitting suit.)

It's the Rider stuff that comes out the best this episode, though. I don't know if that's unusual? I feel like it might not be an every episode thing. I might be misremembering it, though. (With the world the way it is right now, I couldn't even say how long I've been watching Ryuki. A year? A million years?) Or maybe it's that this one felt like it extra came together at the end. I'm not sure if More Riders = Better Episode is a strictly true formula, but it feels like a reliable one for this show. All of the participants in this episode's climax, Ryuki and Knight and Quarter and Poor Man's Genm (I can't believe the Rhino Rider doesn't have an in-show name yet), their reasons for fighting or not fighting are so clearly delineated. Shibaura fights to feel in control, to watch inferior minds fall to his chaos. Ren fights to give order and context to his pain, to feel like he's getting closer to peace and atonement. Shinji and Tezuka, they both want to stop Riders from fighting, but they go about it in different ways. Shinji only wants to fight monsters. Tezuka only (seemingly?) wants to keep Riders from fighting. Their need to insert themselves into conflicts, it takes different shapes. Shinji wants them all to focus on the threat to innocents, while Tezuka wants them to see the pointlessness of conflict. It's... it makes all of the fighting so much more interesting to me, to have all of the fighters feel this three-dimensional, to have something like Fight Or Die (not to be confused with Fighter Die, my screen name on the MMA boards) feel this nuanced, this personal.

Also, I totally don't think Ren's going to kill Shibaura. I don't think he's that guy. I guess I'll find out next!

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ryuki/ryuki16b.png

These things tend to happen when you get Toshiki Inoue to write a two-parter for you.

Not that it's a bad pair of episodes, mind you. It has its weaker elements, for sure, but I really do think it's commendable how much Inoue nails Tezuka's character, and the dynamic he has going with Ren from his first couple of episodes. The way the show plays with Ren's stock character archetype of "cool bad boy" by gradually revealing him to be a self-destructive, extremely unhealthy mess of a human being is fascinating.

Plus, that moment in 16 where Shinji grabs Tezuka's hand *right* as the insert theme kicks in is awesome. It makes the whole episode worth it all by itself. :lol

I think it's exciting, how the show peels back Ren's layers specifically to say This Guy Is A Psychological Wreck. It's, like, a repudiation of the way fans idolize Dark Heroes. There's a way of doing that where it might feel off-putting, as a viewer, to have a show deconstruct a main character in that manner. I think the choice to have the critique come from Tezuka, and through his empathy, that saves it. If it was just Shinji and Yui feeling frustrated with Ren's acting out, that'd wear thin. By having it come from someone who, like, is ignoring the actions to examine the cause, that feels way more kind to Ren's character.

I’ve been waiting for you to get to these two episodes, purely so I can bring up two pieces of useless trivia.

The punks Shibaura has fighting in episode 15 are wearing masks left over from the henchmen of Jikuu Senshi Spielban (which I’ve recently taken up watching.) (picture for reference here https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20150724142501)

And second, Not-Genm’s contract monster has a port on the action figure that allows Quarter’s monster to connect to it. And there’s still one port left over.

This isn't relevant to discussion but man I wish I could follow these threads better they seem to have a lot of insight on the part of everyone here.

Oh, ha ha, neat! That's great, that the Mortal Kombat fight club reused old toku masks. Stuff like is a great reference for hardcore fans, without being distracting for younger viewers. It's the best way to do it.

And a Contract Monster combiner?! Super cool!

Folks got a lot of interesting thoughts on Ryuki! It's been a blast, getting to talk about it. It definitely is making self-isolation a little easier, getting to keep discussing Kamen Rider on the boards, just thinking about superheroes and monsters and problematic Japanese men. Hopefully it's an escape for others!

Shibaura's such an ass, I almost hate him more than any of the more threating dark Riders in the series. He's so obnoxious. Tezuka and Ren definitely have some fantastic interactions. Tezuka is probably the most well rounded guy in a series filled with some pretty crazy people. He's not only a good person, but he's a lot smarter about it than Shinji

I have one interesting thought on Ryuki and it's that all* the designs are cool.

*Most of the designs.

Yeah, I think Shibaura comes off worse than, say, an actual murderer like Scissors in that he's so goddamn smug. He's got that superiority complex, and it's like he's always laughing at our heroes in a way that you definitely want Ren to murder him. Like, I feel like he's a great adversary for a story that's all about Is Ren A Killer because, man, hard to defend Shibaura in this one. Pretty much deserves a Final Vent.

They really are! I don't know that I love Raia's stingray (or whatever) design, that ponytail just doesn't work for me, but the rest are pretty great. I'm even suspending my distaste for giant pauldrons and unwieldy shoulders for Kamen Rider Poor Man's Genm, because that's sort-of his whole thing? Like, he's the Big Shoulders Rider, so they need to be ridiculously cumbersome. The Ryuki aesthetic (medieval plug suits) translates really well across the cast.

Ren and Tezuka's dialogue can be summed up as"Are you a tsundere Ren?"
https://66.media.tumblr.com/36b20504...90d4b6f70f.png
https://66.media.tumblr.com/bfdb97df...ac49a30225.png
https://66.media.tumblr.com/63ccd793...1b2afad4c5.png

"It's not like I'm trying to befriend and help him...b-baka!". And now Tezuka got punched. If trying to humanize Ren is this risky, I can't imagine how will you fare for humanizing other worse Riders... And damn even violating personal space by again "stalking" Ren in the hospital to know that he fights for Eri.

Well, the threat is worse than humiliation, it's death for Shinji (Dragreder card), and it's virus for ORE Journal computers, also death (of business) to them. Shibaura is 21 btw, he's merely younger than other Riders, but he's NOT that young. N̶o̶w̶ ̶I̶ ̶f̶e̶e̶l̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶n̶n̶e̶l̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶A̶u̶n̶t̶i̶e̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶w̶h̶o̶ ̶c̶l̶a̶i̶m̶s̶ ̶Y̶u̶i̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶1̶3̶.̶And let's also talk about how Shibaura gets his comeuppance here in form of one of his underestimated slave Shimada, don't underestimate her weirdness (including how she came to Atori and her dramatic preparation for making the virus), she IS the computer staff of ORE for a reason who eventually stops the non-monster threat they investigate earlier. And she collapsed for merely...typing a program fast (resembling a computer's BSOD)? Where Yui is being overly concerned that time, do you really believe that just typing really fast can send you into near death situation? Also poor lil girl who Yui babysits (what earns you a privilege to get that specific treatment at Atori like headpats?), that Shimada moment won't be safe for a child to watch!

I think the reason of why Shinji didn't try to act to Shibaura is that, he risks that this moment will happen (replace ORE card with Dragreder card).
https://oi1301.photobucket.com/album...ps0beq9vay.png
Meaning putting himself in a tug-of-war with Shibaura of Dragreder and risking tearing the card, which would lead to his death. And for bolded one even with Ren claiming Shibaura just to burn his card, he throws his sword to the card to (make Tezuka) retrieve the card. Now you really can't deny it Ren! You are a tsundere like Tezuka claims! For "superhero menaced by a child in an ill-fitting suit" though, both Shinji and Shibaura are in their human forms means Shinji isn't a superhero (and Gai in Rider form would mean he's a supervillain, on equal grounds with Ryuki), moreover we learned that a Rider will revert into Blank Form when they lose their contract card, where you know Blank Form is very weak and impotent.

Lol that's obviously usual for Toku because Toku's main stars are Riders and monsters, any unusual stuff. How about Sudo and (especially) Kitaoka there you left them out from the list for their take on the war? And for Shinji, something that comes into realization for the war, as displayed when he "accidentally" killed Zolda/Goro was that he also needs to save the Riders themselves too, not only the innocents. And most importantly (you never talked about Shinji and Tezuka's interaction), Tezuka co-operates with Shinji in this department.

Tezuka also unlike Shinji in ep. 6 to Scissors vs Knight, did try to break out Knight and Gai's fight, but dunno why I think it's hilarious he just doing like to separate unruly kids by telling them to stop and putting himself in middle of them, which would make it even worse for him that he got "double-teamed" by Knight and Gai to put himself out of their way. Get yourself a better equipment lol like using your weapon or Advent for a basically 2v1! And Knight again utilizes his weapons well (after using his rapier to free himself of Scissors' choke, realizing he has other weapon), he dual wields them here to eventually defeat Gai. Raia (at this time) must be stunned that his prediction this time went 180 degrees, with Knight defeating Gai and seemingly about to finish him.

Tezuka is low-key Kiriya's expy of Ex-Aid, being the one to retrieve main Rider's power after being stolen (Dragreder card from Gai, Mighty Action X gashat from Snipe), being the most heroic Rider after main character (at least before Poppy comes for Ex-Aid), ultimately ending up on the same page as the hero after a misunderstanding at first. Can we also talk about poor Shinji who gets backhanded by Ren when he tried to stop the fight?

Anyone named Gai is coincidentally hate-able I suppose, be it from Ryuki, or from Zero-One. And Shibaura is also a murderer btw with his death games. The victims from previous episode may be some video game addict assholes, but the death games are solely made by him (not the whole Matrix), and he plans to spread it country-wide here. And for Die didn't you say you like how Gai's scanner is in his shoulder? Also his shoulder can be folded so it won't restrict your movements.

Just a heads up; using photobucket isn't a great idea as they plaster the logo all over the images now. Nt sure if its just on my end or if its a universal thing. Also I keep getting confused, who is Quarter? I don't remember anyone by that name in ryuki

Why, he's one of the best characters in Kamen Rider! Right up there with Nijou and Buildad!

...he's also Die's pet name for Raia, based on Tezuka's coin-based fortune telling.

Shimada is a smart lady.

Okay, sure, but it's not so much the threat we're seeing in this episode, but the demands. And the demands are public humiliation. It's nothing but using the bullhorn of Ore Journal to deify this dink. And Shinji... sure, he could be killed if Shibaura destroys his card. But he doesn't really act like he's in mortal peril. He acts like he's frustrated and pissed off. The show's not really trying to sell the stakes of this one as much more than I Wish Someone Would Punch This Kid Already.

I was also very into Shimada's Henshin pose, the little way she psyched herself up for some heroic coding.

But, like, Shinji's still a grown-ass man. I can't think he'd have a hard time beating up some nerd programmer.

So, for the other two Riders, they weren't in that scene so it didn't feel pertinent to bring them up. I imagine should Kitaoka get a chance to interact with Shibaura (!) or Tezuka (!!!!), it'll be a great place to contrast their motivations and views.

Shinji's thing... he really doesn't want people to die. It doesn't matter if they're innocent people being menaced by monsters, or people who've framed him for kidnapping and also shot a million missiles in his face. I don't think his desire to stop unnecessary conflict reaches the same Defining Trait that Tezuka's does. Shinji doesn't want to fight other Riders, and he doesn't want other Riders to fight each other, but he's not, like, shadowing Ren every minute of the day to make sure he doesn't Final Vent a person.

I guess I just find Shinji/Tezuka interactions not that memorable? I think it's cool to see them cooperate, but... the flavors are too similar. They're both different shades of Earnest Empathetic Heroes. I need contrasts, you know? Them two gotta be in different pairings for me.

I guess I'm viewing Scissors' actual homicide as a little worse than plotting to spread a nationwide murder game over the internet. It's a sense of scale, to me. Scissors got his hands dirty, personally murdered people, so he needs to get monster-eaten. Shibaura orchestrated a situation where people murdered each other, so... less bad to me? I don't know.

The shoulder driver thing is very cool! I like how weird Ryuki gets with its role-play elements. This is a show that feels very toyetic to me, especially compared to the last couple. I gotta assume the merchandise sales were through the roof.

Honestly? Shinji seems like the kind of guy who would try to throw a punch, and then somehow manage to fall flat on his face in the process without anyone even touching him. Strangely enough, fighting horrific monsters seems to be one of the few scenarios in which he doesn't become a flustered mess. Or at least that's how Inoue writes him.

There are people who can probably pull numbers on this stuff, but as far as I know, Ryuki's "boatloads of Riders and trading cards" approach legitimately was a big hit on the merchandising front. It's maybe worth mentioning Agito apparently had the highest viewing figures in the franchise's history though? This isn't something I'm too familiar with, so hopefully someone can jump in to fill in the details, but as I understand it, Ryuki was actually brushing up against cancellation at at least one point? This will be somewhat more relevant when you get to the movie.

MASKED RIDER RYUKI EPISODE 17

Normally, we start things off with a screencap that's either relevant, or funny, or both. (Or neither! I don't want to assume!) They're up there, I don't really comment on them. But then there's this episode, and what it's about, and how it executes its story, and I just need to talk about this shot:

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ryuki/ryuki17a.png

Look at that. Look at it. In the aftermath of There Was No Way Ren Was Going To Kill Shibaura, we've got this beautiful shot. Look at how happy Shinji is, that he was right about his friend, that Ren's not really a killer, that they can work together to destroy monsters without fighting other Riders. Look at how devastated Ren is, how certain he is that his weakness has doomed both himself and Eri, that his rage isn't quite enough to suffocate his shame. Look at how two characters view the start of this episode in diametrically opposed ways. It's an awesome idea for an episode to explore, and a gorgeous shot to sell it to an audience. So great. So smart.

A lot of really smart choices in this episode, actually. It's not a total winner, unfortunately. We're in the middle chapters of an arc here, so there's nothing really approaching a resolution of any plotlines. Ren's still a mess at the end, and nothing definitively changes for anyone else. (Yui's investigations into Shiro's Secret Science Society, formerly a Club but there's just too much Secrecy, that's still happening. I really wish the show could find a way to loop Reiko in on this one. It seems way more in her wheelhouse than Yui, considering Yui's thing is just badgering some traumatized dude until he gives her info so she'll shut up. Yui and Reiko, Secret Science Society investigators! It needs to happen!) But, you know, even if it's a linking segment, there's some very smart writing in this one.

It's mostly Shinji/Tezuka stuff, and it works better than I'd thought it would. Shinji's bafflement that Ren's decision to not murder someone would cause an existential crisis gets him to bounce off of Tezuka organically, exploring their differences in clever ways. There's some great points about how Shinji's tendency to charge in, to not consider consequences, that's the antithesis of how Tezuka views the world. Tezuka believes in fate, and he's sometimes haunted by his decision-making. He's not choosing to do something, he's choosing to not do every other option. It's paralyzing for him, the weight of those choices. Shinji is... not haunted by his decision-making. Shinji throws himself in and hopes for the best. It's brave and generous and heroic and honestly pretty stupid. (Tezuka even brings up the fact that Shinji sacrificing his life to a Mirror Dragon was maybe something he could've mulled over!) Shinji can't understand why Tezuka has to make an easy decision difficult, and Tezuka can't understand why Shinji doesn't need to think things through. It's that friction I was looking for between them, the thing where Shinji's dismissal of the power of fate makes Tezuka start to lose his shit. It's that shot of Ren and Shinji transposed over Shinji and Tezuka, one event with two reactions. I love it. I love how Ren's crisis starts to ripple out through the whole episode, infecting other people, other relationships. Just some super smart writing.

God, what else was in this one? I was mostly concentrating on the Shinji/Tezuka stuff. I talked about that Yui scene. Hmm. Shibaura's in lockup, pending Kitaoka (!) swinging by after he visits another prisoner in jail, presumably next episode. Hmm.

Oh! One other minor thing I remember liking from this episode. I like that Quarter's got a Copy Vent, that his abilities are intrinsically tied to other Riders, to their powers. He's an assist for them, a boost. (also a mirror because motifffffffs) I think that's perfect for Tezuka. Just a little way of leveraging the character work for a fun superpower in the action scenes. Clever!

A pretty tightly written episode. Very transitional, but still super satisfying to watch. I like the cage the show has built around Ren, how colossally screwed he is. I'm really really hoping the conclusion to this plot is as smart as the writing was to trap him.

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ryuki/ryuki17b.png

Yeah Ryuki actually made the most money in toy sales for Phase 1 of Heisei. http://henshingrid.blogspot.com/2011...sales.html?m=1

And like you said Agito had the highest ratings but Ryuki was actually in 3rd place with only Kuuga and Agito beating it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/KamenRider/...atings_of_the/

So I don't know where the saying of Ryuki almost killing the franchise comes from. But I have heard that Ryuki was considered somewhat unpopoular with older viewers so maybe that had to do with it? I also heard the movie was made in case of the show getting cancelled hence the name of the movie and the summary of it.

Now there's 2 win count for Gai...only because both of those Riders doesn't want to kill others. Tezuka's prediction still all completely right so far, and that correlates into Ren not being a psychopath. I have to ask why Gai activated his Strike Vent again?? He already scanned that used that throughout his fight with Knight, AFAIK cards cannot be used twice. And this is the last thing that Ren wants....his weakness (of not being a killer) being known to others especially Shinji, and him wanting to accompany him even more. So much that he's even more childish here by throwing a tantrum. And now he's even worse in keeping people away from him, even Yui isn't safe from this. I assume you mean dooming himself and Eri in a way that he wouldn't be able to win the Rider War and save her?

And 2 episodes earlier you have Yui in the same boat as Reiko (ORE Journal part-timer)... I think the main difference is that Yui already knows about Riders and Mirror stuffs and the tragedies it caused and seeks to get in touch about the one instigating it, her brother Shiro, as her way (being a non-fighter unlike Shinji and Tezuka) to stop the conflict, while Reiko is like regular citizen, knowing nothing about them, except there are people disappearing and wants to know what causes the disappearences, to have it published as a news publication, thus alerting people (likely death of reflective surface, covering everything in newspapers). And the main hindrance of this is that for some reason no one other than Riders or Yui are allowed to know about Riders and Mirror stuff and they can't tell others (probably because Shiro will retaliate). Oh wait...Yui did, as a child, no one believes her and that gets her being labeled as a freak and bullied by others. Probably either Shinji or Yui should try making others see the truth by touching their bodies with a Rider Deck (dunno if that's ethical/optimal but that's one way I think to make them believe), and Yui should've tried to ask Tezuka too (like she did to Shinji in ep. 1-2) about Shiro.

Shinji's tendency to charge is also seen in the fight before where he immediately runs into Ren when Shibaura's going to finish him in the fight, he runs to wrong situations without hesitation, without thinking. Now finally you cover about it, but well again it's about contrasts AND they being in a feud about it (probably it's not memorable previously, but I want to let people notice the rarity about specific Riders being in peace even when you pointed out about their difference in stopping the conflict, not all feuds all the time). I now can't add anything here other than that Tezuka believes in fate yeah, but he tries to change it too, change other's fate, like his psychotherapy against Ren is an attempt of that. In this situation I lean towards Tezuka learning from Shinji to finish the misunderstanding. But I can't help to give this remark (and a jokey one too); Dude Shinji, you got the one Rider who agrees, supports, and is willing to cooperate with you, why would you still pick a fight with him?? You are in a risk of losing your golden chance!

And now Tezuka also, lives in Atori, all 3 Riders (can't) sleeping together (wow). Yui wasn't aggravated again by this (especially after witnessing that Shinji and Tezuka are screwed-up in their own ways after Ren)? It seems that he merely sleeps there but he goes to his usual place at noon, I wonder what's his house like normally before? Shinji was kicked out in his apartment. Tezuka can't be broke despite his fortune-telling job, he wears a tuxedo and his bike is a damn Honda CB400 SF.

Shibaura is forced to acknowledge Tezuka's expertise in fortune-telling. Also didn't you notice that Raia used Copy Vent against Knight before? He seems to prefer picking other Rider's weapons with it instead of using his own weapon for some reason.

He's frustrated because he can't do anything to retaliate and save his own life. Shibaura doesn't care about that as long as he follows his orders (and probably it's a joy to see him in this state).

T̶h̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶d̶o̶e̶s̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶m̶a̶k̶e̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶a̶ ̶R̶i̶d̶e̶r̶ ̶m̶a̶t̶e̶r̶i̶a̶l̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶G̶o̶r̶o̶ ̶(̶w̶h̶i̶c̶h̶ ̶m̶a̶k̶e̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶b̶i̶g̶ ̶m̶i̶s̶u̶n̶d̶e̶r̶s̶t̶a̶n̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶S̶h̶i̶n̶j̶i̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶e̶p̶.̶ ̶1̶3̶-̶1̶4̶)̶.̶

I mean yeah like I've said before, Shinji's more easily frustrated against Ren and gave up quicker, Tezuka doesn't care about that even when he's grabbed by the collar or getting outright punched.

Lol, but he did punch Kitaoka fine before (and Ren to a lesser extent). And that, oh like your usual shonen protagonist, only good at fighting but sucks at everything daily life.

Worth mentioning that when Ryuki was being adapted for US audiences as Dragon Knight, the producers thought the monster from this episode (referred to in side media as “Gelnewt”) was too good to waste on a two-parter and had the costume replicated so they could use it as the villain’s henchmen. And yet they still adapted this episode and the next, leading to a situation where the monsters that are generally cut down in swathes are suddenly a challenge when there’s only one of them

I mean, yeah, there's probably an element of Ren not wanting help, but I think he's way too emotionally shattered in this episode to care what Shinji thinks of him. He can't lie to himself anymore, he's not going to be able to kill other Riders, which means he's failed Eri. Maybe equally bad, he knows that other Riders are going to have to kill him, and if he can't kill them he's definitely not going to survive. Every lie he's told him himself gets refuted in this episode, and his whole sense of self is shattered. He can't be the man to save Eri, and he's probably going to get killed for his weakness. I don't know that I'd call the anger Ren exhibits from realizing that he's doomed himself and someone he loves a "tantrum", but, y'know, Ren can sometimes be a demonstrative guy.

Partially, for me, it's about economy of character usage. Like, Reiko's sort-of not doing anything in this episode, and Yui's kind-of hopeless at investigating (I guess being pitied is a viable form of leverage over others?), so putting the two of them together gives Reiko something to do and Yui someone to bounce off of. And, I don't know, I don't think Reiko'd have that tough of a time getting up to speed on the Rider/Mirror stuff? Seems like she could handle it.

Shinji has this... abrasiveness? I think his confidence, his decisiveness, his vigor, it has this way of sometimes pushing people away. It's a character flaw, but not a storytelling flaw, if that makes any sense. I like that even-tempered Tezuka can get briefly furious at some way that Shinji's been... less than diplomatic. It's not cheap drama to me, it's a real way that even heroes can quarrel, can disagree, can make their point badly. It's good writing.

100% could not figure out why Tezuka slept over. At first I'm like, are they hiding out from Shibaura? No, they all just go about their lives the next day. Was Tezuka shadowing Ren, acting as his, like, sponsor? No, he's out fortune-telling on his own the next day. Super weird choice to have Tezuka spend the night and never explain why. My head-canon is that Tezuka was mildly pissed at Shinji's I Don't Believe In Fate stance, so Tezuka just raced upstairs, got in Shinji's bed, and shouted I SLEEP HERE TONIGHT IT'S FATE I GOT A VISION YOU SLEEP ON THE FLOOR and then pretended to be asleep until Shinji gave up.

Nope! Didn't notice! Or, more accurately, did notice, didn't have context for why that was thematically appropriate yet, and forgot about it.

Ha ha, neat! It is a pretty cool costume. It's interesting to me that the Heisei Rider shows to this point in time don't really do, like, mooks. There aren't zero-level scrubs for the hero(es) to take out in waves. When does that start to happen again? I feel like it wasn't really a thing in W or OOO, but it definitely was a thing in Fourze? Wonder why that is.

If you really want an answer and you're not concerned about spoilers, then... yeah, with the sole exception of Kabuto; mooks just weren't a thing in Heisei Rider and then suddenly they started doing them in every series starting from W.

Yeah, I guess I don't really consider that spoiler. Thanks!

I wonder why that phased out and then back in, though. It's not like it's a big narrative tool. I don't know that it drastically affects storytelling, having those orange-headed Bugsters or whatever. It definitely makes the fight scenes more dynamic, however. Kamen Riders just plowing through a dozen chumps... it's so visually impressive, and it gives the villain a little time to monologue/taunt while you're still getting to see some action. Huh. I guess I really like those mooks! I wonder if the decision to not use them until Phase 2 was just, like, budgetary? Two guys fighting probably costs significantly less than twelve guys fighting. Unless... is mook suit-work, like, being a fight team intern? Are those actors getting college credit when they sell a big swing from a Gashacon Breaker?

So many more questions now!

It might have been part budget, and part Kamen Rider trying to get away from old Showa tropes as much as possible. The demands of making tons of mook suits usually mean they end up as cheap spandex onesies with a helmet, and 12 of those guys running around every episode might've clashed horribly with the lavish, realistic monster suits in a show like Kuuga or Agito.

For that matter, Black, back during the Showa era, had no designated mooks either, and had similarly elaborate monster designs and a somewhat more grounded tone. I'm just spitballing here, but given that Kabuto was an anniversary series with high production values, and its mooks all look on the same level of detail as the primary monsters, I think I might be onto something.

Narratively, it also just plain wouldn't have been a good fit for Kuuga, which constantly stressed how big a threat just a single Grongi was, so maybe that set a precedent, too? Agito could've probably fit some kind of, like, Unknown enforcer squads or something into the lore if it *really* wanted to, without being too silly. But with the new style from Kuuga already in place, why bother, right?

All this said, there are definitely still going to be occasions throughout these shows where Riders fight bigger groups of monsters.

The more cynical side of me would put forward that the need to sell toys and the toyetic aesthetics of Kamen Rider, while present since Kuuga, really kicked into hyperdrive with W. As such a bunch of mooks is probably an easy, possibly mandated way to show off all these New Toys In Store Now For 17.99.

It's for sure more toyetic to have a bunch of nobodies to beat up. It's easier to have constant form changes and finishers in a fight if you've got a dozen mooks to knock out, rather than one monster that gets detonated.

But, yeah, I don't know that Toyetic and Serious go hand-in-hand that well, especially for a franchise that wants more of a horror vibe. It's dazzling to see, like, Ex-Aid or Snipe wade through a group of Bugsters, using a variety of Gashats, but it's incongruent with trying to sell visceral, unnerving stakes. Low-level mooks need mid-level lieutenants need boss-level maniacs, and all of that becomes cartoony. It's not impossible to tell a grounded, mature story while selling a billion toys (*cough*Build*cough*), but it's a very high degree of difficulty.

Actually, what Shinji thinks of him that time IS one of the main reason he's so emotionally shattered, being respected by someone like him. Shinji still didn't know about Eri yet, only vaguely checking a woman's ring, so he thought Ren should just quit fighting Riders and just beating monsters, how about your hypothesis of "winner gets wish" before Shinji? Oh right, I have to give credit to Shinji, forgot to cover this back on Scissors arc, for being the only one among Riders who thinks that Shiro may only manipulates other Riders, so probably another reason to him that killing other Riders isn't worth it and the war is pointless. As for his childish tantrum, I guess you cannot spell "children" without "ren"!

Yui would be a total cheat-code for what Reiko's looking for. That the answer for disappearences is Mirror Monsters that can appear from reflective surfaces and eats people, but no one other than her or Rider Deck holders can see it, which is something she already knows. That is...if Reiko wouldn't act like Yui's childhood bullies about it (either Reiko would be one of the few to believe that given the tragedies of disappearences or she'd view Yui as another Shimada), which would add some difficulty. I meant for the last one, I'm not talking about Reiko getting to know about Rider/Mirror stuff and learning more about it, I'm talking about how the show seems to disallow anyone other than Riders and Yui to know anything about Rider/Mirror stuff for some reason.

Wdym for "being pitied is a viable form of leverage"? I feel that others just make it extremely hard for her regarding Shiro to investigate, everyone being totally secretive and extremely few access to him, but for investigating another topic, at least Reiko herself remarks that she's good, better than her opinion on Shinji.

Well for you calling Tezuka "even-tempered", I have to say you have to remember you consider him that, and look for a specific moment on a bit later part of the series. My point was that most of the feud moments like quarrel are the ones considered good like the only Shinji/Tezuka moment you cover here (I NEVER call this moment a cheap drama, I also think this is good for philosophy clash), but does that mean are conflicts the only good moment?

I also forgot to cover this. It's an interesting idea for Tezuka to try using prediction in combat, it'd be a big advantage if it works (making you untouchable), but unfortunately it's not for him. And can we talk again about yet another one of Shinji's unusual battle tactics? Using Raia's body as a leverage to catch an airbone monster. Shinji rubs off on Tezuka for this one by declaring him unpredictable, which Shinji uses to teach him that it's just how fate works. That aside, Shinji's now shown as someone who can fend off monsters outside Rider form, and Tezuka also cares about innocents (where you didn't mention in your Rider view before for Tezuka).

Well yeah, I like to know about something like this. Though the one I'm asking was about Tezuka's daily life outside Atori like where does he live before this that he sleeps in someone else's place, is he homeless (unlikely), or living alone without family, in a house or apartment? For the reason he sleeping over there, it's probably easier to figure; my take is that he wants to work up against the Riders and it's easier to stay closer to them rather than tracking them repeatedly, he doesn't really care about personal space to do his job, then again he stays at someone else's place, how did he get Yui's permission for that? Speaking about hiding from Shibaura...you said you want to change every Rider's fate, what will you do to Shibaura, Tezuka?

I don't know, I guess I'm not reading it that way. Ren seems pretty much in his own head on this one. I don't know that I feel like he's overly concerned with what Shinji or Tezuka have to say about him right now.

Yeah, that's not one of my favorite narrative choices, where one person's kept outside the loop. I don't know why someone couldn't tell Reiko, other than a) it drags out the plot if she doesn't know yet, and b) typical White Knight bullshit where the men bravely protect the impossibly fragile mind of a woman. ("There's no way a hard-hitting investigative journalist could POSSIBLY handle the awful truth about our battles. She's a girl!")

Just a joke. I thought Yui's tactic of acting pathetic around that dude was... an interesting choice? She kind-of had no move other than just going I Need Help Real Bad I Don't Know What I'm Doing until this guy gave her a stack of paperwork and begged her to lose his number. It's... I don't think Yui should be real proud of herself on this one.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that you considered it cheap drama. Poorly worded sentence!

And, I wouldn't say conflicts are the only good moment, but they're definitely the most memorable. It's drama, you know? Conflicts are more entertaining storytelling than everyone getting along.

Maybe you're right about it being more efficient for Tezuka to bunk with Shinji and Ren, but I like it way better if Tezuka's making everything about fate, and he plays that card constantly, like a total asshole.

"I end up sleeping here tonight, while you sleep on the floor. It's fate."
"I end up following you to the hospital to see your girlfriend. It's fate."
"Gosh, I'd love to split the check for dinner, but you end paying for everything. It's fate."
*face covered in chocolate frosting* "I DIDN'T WANT TO EAT THIS WHOLE CAKE YOU BOUGHT, IT WAS FATE, CURSE THESE UNBREAKABLE STRANDS OF DESTINY, IF ONLY I COULD ALTER --"*rest of declaration muffled by huge handful of cake Tezuka puts in his mouth*

Yep, that's every Tezuka scene we don't see on Ryuki. I can't be dissuaded!

For Shibaura, maybe Tezuka did change his destiny... right into jail.