Den-O gets away with it because I guess it doesn't feel magical? Like, the Imagin are obviously Genie-ish, but everything about the Den-O side is designed to be techy, and because the main Rider is what usually sticks out, Den-O gets to be a techy series.

I think some of it works in the way superheroes aren't generally considered science-fiction, even though they totally are. Kamen Rider exists in a vague sci-fi/fantasy/superhero zone, so it's only when the imagery is unequivocal that people call out a specific genre. Like, you call a show Wizard, it's tough to argue it isn't fantasy. Everything else, it exists in such a melange of ideas that it's tough to tag it.

Wizard has a dragon living inside him that lets him use a hand on his crotch to turn into a jewel man and fight other embodiments of despair. He's helped by a guy who dug up an ancient relic that got him possessed by a Chimera beast who eats the despair creatures who may or may not *be* a despair creature, as well as mayonnaise. He lives in some guy's attic who, in his downtime, carves up stones which lets Wizard's Dragon make magic spells.

Sounds incredibly scientific to me.

AkibaSilver for the next "X Watches Kamen Rider Wizard" thread.

Honestly, the Phantoms' plan to make people so angry/sad that they give birth to a monstrous version of themselves that's devoid of humanity... I feel like I'm just describing "the internet in 2020", so, yeah, maybe!

I guess Kamen Rider those ones I listed are more Urban Fantasy then regular Fantasy aren't they?

Wait for me to explain why the Myna Bird arc is actually genius, I tell ya.

I had a dream in which I pulled a Fish Sandwich and made these giant posts with the intention of talking about how much I grew to care about Kamen Rider Zi-O, but then 90% of it turned to me complaining and whining about all the things that dissapointed me.

Even to this day, that show pains me but only because I ended up caring so much about it.

I wanna do a rewrite thread on Zi-O again someday.

Maybe this is more of a "general question" but this topic is way more active, so....

After I finish LuPat I want to watch another Rider series. I've narrowed it down to either Build or Den-O. What do you think? I'm leaning a bit towards Den-O right now (since it's so popular in Japan, Den-O is Kenshin, and because I like the late-2000s era), but I figured I'd ask.

Definitely Build.

Den-O is Den-O. It's mainly entertaining simply because of the Imagin. The story is pretty much nonexistent and what little story it does have isn't very convincing. But... the Imagin are in there. If you like them, you will get all the entertainment you need out of this show. But if you don’t - then there's nothing to see here really.

Build on the other hand is, in my opinion, the single best Phase II Heisei show. It has everything. A unique setup, really great cast of characters, awesome action scenes... and Build really excels at putting these elements together.

I recommend watching Build first, but Den-O is definitely worth watching too. Because the Imagin are hilarious and I love them.

Den-O is a lot of fun, although it’s hard not to argue that it started to wear out its welcome eventually. Build is like a better Kabuto to me: it’s a good show, but I tended to forget about it shortly after it ended.

If you want something relaxing and primarily comedy that doesn't care much for ongoing plot, go Den-O. If you really want the twists and turns of a mystery with great characters, go Build. There's plenty to love about both, neither is a *bad* option.

When it comes down to deciding what series to watch next, I usually watch the first 1-3 episodes of each and consider which one has me hooked on seeing whats next.

I know this is unfair to series that take a while to "build up", but because these are self contained series, that energy makes it easy to binge through a huge portion of the show right away

Actually, I think I'm going to go Den-O first. Why? I have no doubts that Build is the better show...but reading you tell me to watch it first because of that makes me not want to :lol

JK, but not really. It was one of those cases where I knew which one I wanted, but didn't fully realize it until somebody suggested otherwise. I'm curious about Den-O because it's referenced so often. It had such an impact on the world of Kamen Rider and changed the direction that the series went in, so I kind of want to see where that all started.

Besides, if I just wanted to watch the best ones, my KR watch history wouldn't be: Kiva, Drive, Ghost, Ex-Aid, Amazons, and 15 episodes of the original :lol

I mean Den-O is still cool and I'm very much a defendant of not going by what's “best” or what people suggest you “should” see first but instead picking what you actually want to watch... but you still asked :p

But Drive and Ex-Aid are two of the best ones!

In ten years from now, Oma Zi-O should come back as an antagonist to menace that year's anniversary rider on the sidelines, before coming around and teaming with both that title rider and normal Zi-O at the end of some story arc.

Or, on the other hand, wouldn’t it also be pretty great if we never had to see Sougo ever again?

Well, I would be fine with just Oma Zi-O (The seventy-year old overlord, that is).

I'd love to see Sougo back; he's a great protagonist! He continues the long tradition of anniversary riders being absolutely nuts

We don’t need to. We just need the Ohma Zi-O suit with Rikiya Koyama's amazing voice acting.

And as someone who doesn't like Zi-O at all, I’m really down for that.

Poor Anniversary Riders, they don't get no respect.

Suggestion: Have Ohma Zi-o played out of suit by Seiji Takaiwa, since that was his appearance/actor in Zi-o

Edit: also folks, the transformations from Agito are freaking fantastic. I love Gills' in particular. It's really artistic and kind of beautiful.

Who among us hasn't screamed so hard we turned into a fish man!

(It is good, though, for real.)

Sougo is a good protag no I am not taking questions at this time.

(I just think he's endearing!)

He had his moments, but I think he would have worked a lot better if they'd established the prophetic dream element earlier in the series. As it stood, he spent about the first 12 episodes looking like a delusional moron who doesn't know how monarchies work.

And at least he's not Geiz, I suppose.

Criticizing types of characters like Sougo is common but I wonder why's for Geiz?

Because Geiz was just terrible. The show couldn't make its mind up from one episode to the next if he was Sougo's friend or if he wanted to kill him to prevent Ohma Zi-O. When he was in the mood to stop Sougo, then he did it in the least effective way possible: threaten to kill Sougo and then stand around sulking but not actually doing anything. And then he'd sulk and threaten more when that didn't work (unless this week's writer decided that he really wanted to help Sougo instead). He was a poorly developed and wildly inconsistent character.

Also, his tactical dickie was really stupid.

Can't believe I'm gonna take the exact opposite view, but Geiz's development through Zi-O makes perfect sense, and is a whole lot more interesting, if you view Geiz as anything but the completely professional killer he pretends to be. He talks big, he can certainly act intimidating, but he's not a murderer. As we see throughout the series (The Quiz arc, his relationship with Tsukuyomi and Woz), he has the heart of an idealistic hero, and as with a lot of the audience, he just can't connect innocent, weirdly idealistic 18 year old Sougo with Oma Zi-O. He takes, in his mind, the easy way out, the "caring" way out, because he's definitely some hard man killer and not a kid in way above his head - try to guide him away from evil. Be friends with him. Then whoops, he actually does become friends with him. Sometimes, he's alright with that, and other times, he remembers he's trying to befriend Oma Zi-O, and he projects that loathing. He flip flops, because of course he does, it's a weird position to be in. But he won't kill. He pretty much can't. And that leads us basically through the entire series - he becomes more dependent on Sougo as he feels he's getting somewhere, and is eventually able to trust him enough that, come the final episode, he dies for him. The archetypical hero role. Not killing some innocent child (although him and Sougo aren't exactly that different in age), but dying to try and protect everone he knows and cares about.

I know I'm never gonna convince anyone who hates him, but Geiz is great.

I get that some people might prefer Tsukasa to Sougo but at least as a show I felt like by the time we got to Zi-O the show was more rounded than around the time of Decade. I mean Decade just gave the impression like the past 9 years didn't even matter, plus it kind of went back to a similar tone to Den-O which personally Kiva did been a relief from for me.

Aside from a fair few quibbles towards the end that really everything suffers from, Geiz and Sougo were extremely solid and I adored their relationship. In general Zi-O was a bit like Build even though I like the latter a lot more: very good seasons centered on the relationship of our two main leads with some great side characters whose plans get completely derailed in the last third. I listen to Woz's theme song Black & White a lot - mostly because it's really really good - but it always makes me sad because it makes it very very clear what the plan for his character was and it's super interesting.

Still like Decade better though

If there ever is a 2068 Rider season, have So Okuno reprise the role !

Saber's first episode will be episode 1455 of the Rider series as a whole.


Practically useless information, but I'm watching OOOs with a buddy and quickly added up all the episode past the 1000th.

Making episode 45 the 1500th Kamen Rider episode. They should celebrate with a special episode when that happens if they ever consider it a milestone. :rock:

I mean, hey, that'll be on 50th anniversary year, soooo...

I really hope Saber remakes the episodes of OOO that remade the first episode of Kamen Rider. I want to see what Saber character has to play Ankh playing the Great Leader of Shocker. I want to see a jankier remake of the jankiest Kamen Rider remake.

I mean...you did help me decide. Just not in the way you wanted lmao

Yeah but replace Ghost and Kiva with W, Gaim, Kuuga, Agito, and Blade lol

As they've said, Geiz is a tsundere lol. You know that character archetype, commonly female love interests, commonly changes between affectionate or hostile to her love interest. But doesn't mean tsundere isn't applicable to males (and Geiz isn't even the only one in the franchise embodying that type)

Saber's gotta be Blade 2.0?! Check the series naming, both are named after cutting melee weapons, and can be synonymous.

I read about the tsundere character once and I was like ''I would probably hate someone like that'' lol