Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP (Post 183835)

Okay, a lot of what you say here doesn't have a lot to do with what we're talking about, so I'm only going to respond to what is in an attempt to streamline our posts.You typo'd or autocorrected or something so I'm not sure what you're saying, but yes, I can absolutely use the show's pacing as a reflection of the character, because the show's pacing affects EVERYTHING IN IT.

People have a habit of pointing out aspects as if they standalone, not remembering that all these terms like 'pacing' go together to make the show what it is, and they all affect eachother. If anything you are just reinforcing my arguement taht teh show has no redeemign factros if it's pacing is affecting an otherwise acceptable character.

Except it isn't, and you can't even come close to saying that. I just went on an abridged tirade about Shotaro's character and what we find out about him in the first sixteen episodes. Ditto Shinji. Haruto has no excuse.

Except you see, I feel like that would be the easy and typical way out. Hell, you yourself complained about Eiji's initial strain from combos.

Oh wow, you actually used "it's not the show, it's you." Almost word-for-word.

Haruto does not have a wry sense of humour, he has no sense of humour unless it's to the really silly stuff. And even then it's forced and unnatural. To put it bluntly, you're making up excuses and character aspects that don't exist.

Yeah, I'm sure that's it.

Well, that doesn't help your point, since you've only seen like, what, four? five?

It also doesn't help that you never mention which series you've seen. And the way you talk you basically imply you've seen, like, the entire Heisei era when you list off, like, four riders and then say "much, much more."

And the thing is, you mention you've seen more "goofs" then Haruto and Eiji, which basically means you're callign Gentaro, Shotaro, Ryoutaro and Godai "goofs." Can't speak for Godai and I'll give you Gen, but no way in any sensible hell are Shotaro and Ryoutaro "goofs." Again, do yourself a MASSIVE favoure and at least check out the W portion of the W and Decade movie so you can finally at least get a hint of what's to immediately come in W. You could not have picked a worse time to bail on that show. Ryoutaro is far from a goof. Even when he's meek and timid he's not a goof. He's got terrible luck and is the butt end of slapstick, but he himself is not goofy, just terribly unfortunate,

Originally Posted by Locke (Post 183837)

I will be the first to admit Wizard is poorly paced but I've yet to watch a Toku series that isn't. Most Kamen Rider series I've seen would have worked just as well with half the episodes, normally the middle section being a painful and slow crawl until the show realises it needs to wrap things up.

Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP (Post 183839)

You're either lying or your like of KR street cred is jiving you upside, homie.

I will admit, I've yet to see an excellently paced KR series just because it every series seems to need to be "broken in" befor ethey hit full stride, but Wizard's pacing is not even pacing. It's tanding still.

BECAUSE YOU KEEP ACTING LIKE WHAT YOU'VE SEEN IS ALL THERE IS. And you act like watching the first episode of every series is indicative of the show overall based on your above addendum.

Bullshit. You cannot look at Shotaro and W and not think they're the same guy. I almost thought it was Shotaro in the suit because the guy who is in the suit (the same guy who plays every Heisei rider besides Kuuga and Hibiki) matches his body language so freaking well.

And when it comes to Den-O, well, that's the point. But I don't think you meant him.

Except it didn't and that isn't. It didn't go "over my head" (BTW thanks for outright calling me stupid bro, you're a peach if I ever saw one) it isn't there. At least not in the first sixteen episodes where the dude BARELY FUCKING TALKS about anything besides a phantom let alone has any humour.

I don't even know why argueing Haruto is even the main point here. He's LITERALLY the only part of Wizard we disagree on. But I seriously, seriously cannot agree with anything you say about him having any kind of character or personality. I'm almost inclined to keep watching Wizard, not so much to find support for my claims, but find out where this mysterious missing personality has been hiding from me.

Originally Posted by Locke (Post 183842)

I think you should be able to judge individual episodes, without talking about the series as a whole, they are made to be watched a week apart after all.

Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP (Post 183846)

I agree. That's one of the reasons I'm not a big fan of Wizard. The individual episodes feel... hollow.

And don't mistake my "overall" comments to mean you can only appreciate the show once it's done or somethign, it's just once you ARE done you can't help but remember the show and see the big picture.

That's just the crux of these kinds of shows. You don't see the rider fight outside the costume much early on becaus ethey want the figths to be the suits since they're still selling the the series. Plus Shotaro only gets super brawly because that's the power of the Joker memory, it offers increased agility and fighting skill. It's funny, because in a later movie we actually see both Philip and Shotaro fight side-by-side in human form against an enemy to show how far they've come.

Also, Philip doesn't contribute physically to W in his main forms. The movie and later the series explains that, and I'll spare you the details, Philip is basically designed to be part of W. He's like an onboard computer for whoever uses the actual W driver, and this is expanded upon later. It also puts everything in perspective when you realise W isn't a rider with guidance from a floating arm or a train-full of weirdos, he's a detective figuring things out. Think of it like Batman in his early years.

They deffinately get better with this as time goes on. I think it's just the range of the suit actor snce, like I said, it's ONE GUY playing every Heisei rider. tehy cna't always gel seemlesly, but teh ammount of times they do is impressive. Even if I don't like Haruto, I'll still agree it feels like him in the suit.

Goddman we agree on so much why must we clash on things like Wizard and W?

And I hope if you ever get back to W you'll at least see why it's as popular as it is. It's not perfect at all, I could probably find things wrong with it, but like I said every aspect of the show goes together to make a cohesive story, and W does that really, really well once all is said and done. Plus the last movie is excellent.

Originally Posted by Locke (Post 183849)

You always make W sound much more interesting than I found it :lol I guess the good stuff comes later, just a shame about the slow pacing.

Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP (Post 183854)

Also on Meteor: yeah, sometimes they get actors who match the secondary rider stunt man (again, pretty much all secondary riders are the same dude under the suit. I wonder if he and the main rider actor ever hang out) sometimes they don't. Hell, Den-O kind of becomes a giant when you see him next to Hana, who's shorter but about the same size as Ryoutaro out of the suit. I think for Henshins they sometimes stand the actor on a box or somethign to match the suited rider.

Originally Posted by Locke (Post 183977)

For once I'm actually glad they went back on a death and just had them leave instead as even seeing Date leave breaks my heart as he was my favourite character. Please tell me he comes back? Although I do recognise I only have like ten episodes left...