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-   -   Order of watching Decade? (https://www.tokunation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7958)

KRX 01-28-2013 10:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrixbeast (Post 97442)
He abandoned humanity to not risk starting the Battle Fight again. His friends don't know where he is.



At the end of Decade (Around episode 30 or so), Kenzaki appears with the 8 other Heisei Riders (I think Den-O was missing) and straight up says they're the original Riders, who then proceed to attack Decade for sparing the AU Riders (Since their survival means the worlds would start to destroy each other).
This scene is important because Kenzaki Kazuma is the ONLY one of the original Heisei characters to appear untransformed, showing he's completely human.

That completely changes what occurs in Blade, since he's incapable of becoming human anymore.
And the characters in OOO (Or any other series, for that matter) show no signs of remembering when a swarm of demon roach monsters showed up to casually wipe out humanity.
That usually doesn't deter people. And again, WIZARDS. Or Den-O. Perhaps Den-O gave everyone a lift, ad they filled in the Kazuma of the past on the details.

Or Kazuma just escaped. The Joker was released in The Missing Ace. Why can't Kazuma do that?

Matrixbeast 01-28-2013 10:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRX (Post 97452)
That usually doesn't deter people. And again, WIZARDS. Or Den-O. Perhaps Den-O gave everyone a lift, ad they filled in the Kazuma of the past on the details.

Or Kazuma just escaped. The Joker was released in The Missing Ace. Why can't Kazuma do that?
He appeared as a human before the eclipse, thus before Wizard.

And he was never sealed in the first place. There needs to be 2 unsealed Undead to prevent the Battle Fight from having a victor.
Missing Ace took place in an alternate universe. Kenzaki didn't transform into a Joker, instead sealing away Hajime, letting humanity win the Battle Fight.

Blade Raider 01-28-2013 11:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrixbeast (Post 97442)
That completely changes what occurs in Blade, since he's incapable of becoming human anymore.
And the characters in OOO (Or any other series, for that matter) show no signs of remembering when a swarm of demon roach monsters showed up to casually wipe out humanity.
It's Japan, they get attacked by monsters daily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrixbeast (Post 97442)
At the end of Decade (Around episode 30 or so), Kenzaki appears with the 8 other Heisei Riders (I think Den-O was missing) and straight up says they're the original Riders, who then proceed to attack Decade for sparing the AU Riders (Since their survival means the worlds would start to destroy each other).
This scene is important because Kenzaki Kazuma is the ONLY one of the original Heisei characters to appear untransformed, showing he's completely human.
1) Kuuga is still Decade's version of Kuuga, not the one from the real show. There's no proof that any of those are the real Riders from the shows we've seen.

2) "Original" can mean many different things. It can mean the shows we know, it can mean the original versions Decade met before or after the series started, it kind mean a complete different set of Riders that no one has seen. It could even be the Missing Ace version.

3) They never gave a date. Decade may be happening parallel to the 9 Heisei shows, thus Blade isn't over yet.

4) The Riders were summoned. Blade may have been summoned from across time.

5) This is the most important one. Decade ending is a giant reset button that rewrites the universe into one continuity that is the real shows. For this to work, Decade's events of dimension hooping cannot exist because there's no dimensions to hoop to. However, Decade has to exist to restore the continuity of the universe. Therefore Decade "has no story" in the Kamen Rider universe that is made up of the real shows in a single continuity.

KRX 01-28-2013 11:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrixbeast (Post 97458)
He appeared as a human before the eclipse, thus before Wizard.

And he was never sealed in the first place. There needs to be 2 unsealed Undead to prevent the Battle Fight from having a victor.
Missing Ace took place in an alternate universe. Kenzaki didn't transform into a Joker, instead sealing away Hajime, letting humanity win the Battle Fight.
Well, there's always the White Wizard.

And I know Missing Ace took place in an alternate universe. But it was a similar universe, and Hajime/Joker still got out. Why couldn't they have done that with Kenzaki? Granted, they'd be unleashing the Joker, but given the time lapse between Blade and Decade, they could have found a way to have him return as a human.

Matrixbeast 01-28-2013 11:31 PM
Once you start making assumptions based upon the plot holes and vagueness of Decade is when all arguments, both for and against, lose footing because any scenario could be a possibility, and it'd just be a battle of "What if?"

Also, every undead was released during Missing Ace, that was the point of the first 3rd/half of the movie, to reseal them all. That's how Joker got out.
However, they can't cure Kenzaki. Why? Because that would mean Hajime/Joker would win Battle Fight, and the events of Blade's climax would happen all over again.

Blade Raider 01-29-2013 12:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrixbeast (Post 97471)
Once you start making assumptions based upon the plot holes and vagueness of Decade is when all arguments, both for and against, lose footing because any scenario could be a possibility, and it'd just be a battle of "What if?"
Why do you think I hate Decade so much? All arguments are rendered flawed by it because it's never clear as to what's happening.

KRX 01-29-2013 12:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrixbeast (Post 97471)
Once you start making assumptions based upon the plot holes and vagueness of Decade is when all arguments, both for and against, lose footing because any scenario could be a possibility, and it'd just be a battle of "What if?"

Also, every undead was released during Missing Ace, that was the point of the first 3rd/half of the movie, to reseal them all. That's how Joker got out.
However, they can't cure Kenzaki. Why? Because that would mean Hajime/Joker would win Battle Fight, and the events of Blade's climax would happen all over again.
Why can't they cure both Hajime and Kenzaki?

Matrixbeast 01-29-2013 12:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade Raider (Post 97487)
Why do you think I hate Decade so much? All arguments are rendered flawed by it because it's never clear as to what's happening.
Which is why we shouldn't take it's word that all series were connected because of it, and just assume the Rider movies where older Riders show up occupy their own continuity/Universe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KRX (Post 97491)
Why can't they cure both Hajime and Kenzaki?
Hajime is the original Joker, not a human who became Joker. His human form stems from his use of the Spirit card.

KRX 01-29-2013 01:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrixbeast (Post 97492)
Which is why we shouldn't take it's word that all series were connected because of it, and just assume the Rider movies where older Riders show up occupy their own continuity/Universe.



Hajime is the original Joker, not a human who became Joker. His human form stems from his use of the Spirit card.
And I realize that, but still; in a world where playing cards give you superpowers, changing one's species is not out of the question.

Matrixbeast 01-29-2013 02:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRX (Post 97519)
And I realize that, but still; in a world where playing cards give you superpowers, changing one's species is not out of the question.
Considering Hajime spent the entirety of Blade trying to become more human and failing, it kind of is...
Also, you can't make presumptions with no basis just because of the odd premise of the show.
It's like me saying Haruto is a cannibal superman psychopath because magic rings.


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