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I'll bring up the other rumored changes when they become relevant, but I'm genuinely curious on how OOO would of turned out in a world where the various rewrites the series underwent didn't happen. And more importantly if both versions of OOO were available to experience which one people would prefer |
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KAMEN RIDER OOO EPISODE 26 - “ANKH, THE RING, AND FULLY-LOADED”
https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ooo/ooo26a.png Man, I’m really with Date after this episode! I don’t know who in here I’m supposed to be rooting for besides him: The boxer with CTE that’s okay dying? Or is it Eiji, who is potentially destroying his body by using Combos, and needlessly exacerbates his injuries by fighting when a doctor expressly tells him not to? Which guy that's slowly killing themself is the one I'm supposed to be happy for at the end? Both of them? One of them? No one here is making good decisions! The Eiji thing is… I don’t know, standard heroic Kamen Rider stuff that also feels short-sighted and frustrating. There’s nothing in here saying that Birth couldn’t take care of this threat himself – Birth is literally built to finish off Yummies – but we still get a heavily-injured Eiji risking his life while, y’know, heavily injured. He’s at a way greater risk than Date would’ve been, and it all feels too foolhardy, too precarious. Like, him showing up to protect Ankh? Good! Him continuing to hang around for the fight after Ankh is safe and Team Birth arrives? Bad! Dumb! Dangerous! But again, that’s this genre. Heroes fight beyond the promise of safety in order keep the rest of us safe. It just, a) completely didn’t seem necessary, and b) is looped in with the boxer storyline to create something sort of repellant? I can kind of squint and see what the boxer storyline is talking about. A life lived in safety that denies your desires is more dangerous to your well-being than a risky life lived in pursuit of your desires. Basically, don’t be afraid to chase your dreams. Or, I don’t know, maybe it’s that life is uncertain? (i have a very hard time seeing the positive message in the boxer story!) But, like, this guy has legitimate brain damage. His life is already going to be horrible. Is this show seriously suggesting that him dying in the ring (possibly every single match!) is going to be a better life for him than, uh, not risking his life to pursue his dream of sporting glory? This is horrible! This is a horrible message. Okamura acts at the end like he just needs to do some rehab on his hand and he’ll be good as new, but that was never the real problem. He cannot take any more hits to the head; you cannot rehab CTE. It is not heroic for this guy to risk his life for a sport! Beyond the fact that literally no humane governing body for boxing would allow it (so, probably only 80% of them), think of what it would mean for any of his opponents to fight against a guy this close to death. You think they’re agreeing to kill this guy during a boxing competition, just because he wants a meaningful death?! This is horrible. So, yeah, sort of tainted the episode for me! No one learns anything, all self-destructive behavior is either rewarded or ignored, and we don’t even find out where the Yummy actually came from. I really disliked this episode! https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ooo/ooo26b.png |
Okay, so on the one hand it's not the best moral, but on the other...
yeah, no, it's still pretty bad. |
In which Birth gets his final form… kind of not the best idea they could’ve come up with, but I like the fact it’s called “Birth Day form”, for how on brand it is for Kougami.
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Behold the only time Date uses the Cutter Wing as Birth (probably due to never getting around to reading the manual).
And I think a storyline like this would be better with someone who wasn’t a boxer legitimately . Like an artist regaining the use of his dominant hand and taking up art. As the idea of people having passions that are a fundamental part of them and what it mean for them to deny other people this passion in order for themselves to experience it. |
It's hard to speak to how the boxer storyline itself played out when I'm operating off of like 6 year old memories (evidently it wouldn't hurt to go rewatch OOO again!), but I recall on my last rewatch really liking the way this story brought stuff about Eiji's character to the forefront that ends up being hugely relevant to the rest of the series.
Like, I don't remember off the top of my head if there was any specific moral lesson this story was or was not teaching properly or improperly, so I can't argue that point right now, but I definitely recall Hina and Date's concern over Eiji's behavior, and I definitely recall that neither of those characters just forgets about that or sweeps it under the rug from here. For Date in particular, I think his unique perspective on Eiji is one of the most neat things about how he completes the show's dynamic, even. |
One thing I forgot to mention is that this episode and the next couple were delayed by a week due to the 2011 Earthquake. I?m not sure what effect it had on the overall series progression, but it pays off with episode 28 for reasons I?ll discuss when we get there.
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KAMEN RIDER OOO EPISODE 27 - “1000, A MOVIE, AND A MOOK”
https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ooo/ooo27a.png A Kamen Rider movie?! Based on Takeshi Hongo’s origin? And released as multiple TV episodes? There’s no way that’ll work. I think I prefer this type of anniversary celebration, of 1000 episodes -slash- 40 years, for how it takes a different look at the history of Kamen Rider’s success – namely, for how it’s also a history of Shocker et al’s failure. Where another series might point to the legacy of heroic perseverance that’s delivered the world from ruin across multiple generations, a Shocker mook might instead see it as a constant series of humiliating (and escalating) defeats. Hongo’s creation is the original sin of Kamen Rider villainy, the spark that burned down every single evil organization’s dream of global conquest. Deciding to talk about how one person or group’s constant success could be another person’s constant failure, that’s fun. Doing it all through a bonkers parody of Showa excess, where the main plotline is that Gotou can’t act? That’s amazing. You cannot get me on an OOO story’s side faster than canonically pointing out that Gotou is incredibly boring to watch, and he’s sort of a drag on the fun. (I honest to god can’t tell the difference between Normal Gotou and Bad Actor Gotou, so when the cast started reacting to him like he was a dull obstacle to art, I was like Oh Man They Got My Letter.) There’s a fun running gag to him getting endlessly demoted in the production, where it not only mirrors the last 26 episodes for him, but it also mirrors Shocker’s declining relevance. Much like Gotou, Shocker’s a joke, and this episode is the punchline. The Shocker Beast! Zero threat, despite the insane Tiger Squid Yummy design. I like that he’s never treated as anything other than a clown, because that’s Shocker. That’s 40 years of being Rider Kicked into cartoonish incompetence. But, like, he keeps showing up. He keeps trying to murder Kamen Riders, even when they’re just Megumi from Ryuki and a tiny friend, who kick his ass for fun. That dedication to doing the work, no matter the outcome… it’s such a fun rebuttal to Maki’s cutting remarks about failure negating intention. Whole episode’s just a very fun way to talk about how failure is really just a new opportunity to succeed, even if it’s over a 40-year timeline. Even if it’s just trying to find a way to not be the worst actor on a set that includes Chiyoko hamming it up, Ankh being too in his element as a theatrical tyrant, and Eiji not needing to do more than be in his underwear. (How Kougami didn’t get cast as Hongo, I’ll never know.) I like these retrospectives more when they can illuminate something poignant about the history of the franchise, and Let’s Hear It For The Mooks is a pretty great theme. https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ooo/ooo27b.png |
Honestly, the highlight here is Chiyoko trying to help Goutou learn to act so she can live her dreams through him.
Also, the ex-Shocker’s grunt’s name being “In Sendo”, which in western naming order would be “Sendo In”, a play on “Sentoin” (literally “Combatman”). It’s basically the equivalent to a US production having a bad guy minion named “Manfred Hench”. |
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KAMEN RIDER OOO EPISODE 28 - “1000, KAMEN RIDER, AND A BIRTHDAY”
https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ooo/datoba.gif HBV story on a TV budget! It’s insane, this whole thing. Nebulously canonical, despite the presence of Ankh’s subplot. (I love that the entire Medal story amounts to Ankh wondering who has his Core Medals, and Kougami being like Yeah Me Too. That’s it! That’s the new information: That there is no new information!) Everything in here might as well be packed in with a copy of TV-Kun, for how it exists in the larger cultural context of Kamen Rider, rather than the specific world of Kamen Rider OOO. I’m not mad about it, to be clear. The thousandth episode – and 40th anniversary – kind of deserves something more than just an OOO story with special guests. It’s arguably more appropriate for the OOO story to take a couple weeks off, and just let the vague OOO vibe (and cast) mingle with the ridiculous history of the franchise to create something, if not reverent, than at least celebratory. Like, the whole episode is a crazy goof, those HBV vibes letting everyone act like a more deranged version of themself while also leaning into the stupidest consequences of any action. It definitely loses its thread around the midway point, forgoing any dramatic tension or emotional connection in favor of Showa satire and relentless buffoonery. There’s maybe a story in here about Mook’s desire, but it doesn’t ever really rise above a loose framework for a bunch of reused suits and a light note about Shocker’s importance to the brand. (Which, for an episode that is loudly about Shocker, and how only Shocker should beat Kamen Riders, that’s sort of the whole motivation for Mook, he seems to be pretty cool with Worms from Kabuto and Masquerade guys from W taking shots at OOO? I mean, I can sort of write it off as Shocker still beating OOO because Mook is in charge of them, just like every Heisei Shocker story has the Joker Undead as part of the crew, but it needlessly muddies the one actual story this lark has in it. Should’ve stuck to Combatmen!) I had a good time with this one. It’s Kamen Rider’s birthday, and it’s cool to just shrug off the normal demands of narrative and relax with some hijinks. It’s a party, not a story, and that’s sort of okay in this instance. https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ooo/ooo28b.png |
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Still a very fun pair of episodes! Probably wouldn't have worked as well with any other show's cast of characters. I dream of one day also having my own dark chamber to sit in and watch every Kamen Rider show all at once like Kougami. |
Remember how I mentioned the show’s episodes after 26 got delayed by a week? Well that meant, by lucky coincidence, that this milestone episode with every Rider Mook (or more specifically, Shocker grunts, Destron grunts, Dogma Fighters, Crisis Empire’s Chaps, Makamou Ninjas, Salis Worms, Leo Imagin and Masquerade Dopants) aired exactly 40 years to the day the original episode of Kamen Rider (1971) aired. Sentai tried doing the same thing deliberately 4 years later, but ironically, the episode got delayed by a week, due to having an episode in February pre-emptied by live coverage of a murder.
And the reason we get so many seemingly random cameos (the fangirl who intrudes on the filming and the fat and skinny female grunts who make a Susan Boyle joke) is that their names (or in the case of the latter two, their comedy act’s name) contain the kanji for “thousand”. And I mentioned that OOO’s action figure gimmick was the circle on his back, well here we see Birth’s. Namely, his armaments combine into a scorpion when not in use. Which honestly, I quite a clever way to avoid losing them. |
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Hello all,
I have recently gotten into Kamen Rider, and I've been lurking these threads for the past 6 months or so as I watch various seasons, and I just have to say, Die, thank you for hosting such interesting discussions about so many Kamen Rider shows! It's insanely difficult to find episode-by-episode discussions for earlier seasons, so your threads (along with everyone else posting) have been a great companion piece as I've been getting more and more into the bugmen. It's probably part of why I've been able to watch so much in such a short time (6 seasons in 6 months, Faiz is my favorite so far btw), and it is 100% why I've just made an account to share in finally keeping up with the discussion as I watch OOO for the first time. Keep up the good work! Anyway, I LOVED this last 2 parter (27 and 28). It was so wild and crazy, I could barely believe what I was seeing at times. W is my 2nd favorite season (though may be 3rd if OOO continues), and part of why is how unpredictable each episode's tone, setting, and characters could be. This felt like a return to that idea! Now for some random OOO thoughts/comparisons as a somewhat newbie: I think Eiji/Ankh is like the Shinii/Ren dynamic, but much more interesting. So much of Ryuki is Shinji pleading with Ren not to do a thing, Ren does it anyway, and Shinji shrugs his shoulders (and vice versa). It just got very tiresome and repetitive. Here it's a lot more push and pull, especially with Eiji leveraging his ability as OOO, which is much more fun to watch in my opinion! It feels like they really could break apart at any moment, while Ren and Shinji lacked spice in my opinion (they're supposed to be fighting for their lives! Why does everyone just kinda hang out in Ryuki!) Also, another side note, the counting medals screen at the beginning of each episode is SO helpful. I have no idea why they didn't do something similar with the Build bottles. It was so hard to keep track, everything moves so fast in Build! Okay, rant over, thanks for reading and I will be certain to join the discussion again soon! |
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I genuinely don't know why they all work at a cafe, though, other than the crushing gravity of that setting in this franchise. Not even Gotou could escape it, and he's a former police officer who became part of a private Medal-powered corporate army! Dude still needed to do time in the Cafe Mines to become a real boy!!! |
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So...Date definitely lost his medical license, right? Bro could be making incredible amounts of money as a doctor and instead chooses to don silly costumes and risk his life fighting against ancient monsters :lol
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LET’S LOOK! ONLY YOUR 48 RIDERS - EPISODES 1-12
https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ooo/letslook1a.png Net Movies! Is there any more precious resource in all of Heisei? Reiwa’s had its fun with social media as a resource for weird-ass crap – I genuinely enjoy the various Gavv Dance videos – and the TTFC stuff has been agreeably bizarre and non-canonical of late – the Hades Sisters sketches were a highlight for Gotchard’s production – but there’s something special about the firehose of Net Movie material that this era of Kamen Rider turned out, you know? It’s absolutely bonkers, and clearly a creative team having fun with the format. If Episodes 27 and 28 of OOO were an HBV story on a TV budget, these things are an HBV story on a fan film budget. (Kivat’s a non-moving puppet on a very visible stick!!!) These are super fun, and I can’t believe I passed them up the first time I watched OOO. As much as I love them, however, you are out of your mind if you think I’m watching FORTY-F***ING-EIGHT OF THEM in a row. We’ll be partsing this content out over four nights, in order to both maximize my enjoyment of the material and minimize my exhaustion with the material. Let’s Look at what the first dozen specials taught us! -How to defeat your girlfriend’s disapproving father with earnestness and a minor amount of surprise physical combat -How to defeat a picky eater through forcefulness and a lack of clarity regarding germs -How to defuse tension with a friend by wearing the same underwear at the same time -How to be a good member of the Kamen Rider fan community by holding a grudge against the production team for 18 goddamn years, and using a public platform to air every minor grievance you can think of as quickly as you can think of them -How to, uh, use drumsticks instead of chopsticks??? (This one feels like the last sketch the team thought up, and they just wanted to be done.) -How to see beyond surface impressions and understand that big people do not like being seen as just “big people”, even if literally the only thing J ever does in team-up films is grow big -How to change your luck through accessorizing with specific colors, with the only visible consequence being that you may become embroiled in Japanese language puns -How to cheat at cards, which is more Villainous than Heroic, but what do I know, I’m not Kivat -How to defeat your girlfriend’s disapproving father with flattery and a minor amount of seduction -How to defeat a picky eater through forced starvation and a lack of table manners, resulting in the picky eater’s questioning of their life goals -How to defuse tension with a friend by inducing existential despair through the application of Kamen Rider Mitski Subreddit -How to be a good member of the Kamen Rider fan community by holding a grudge against the production team for 28 goddamn years, and using a public platform to air every minor grievance you can think of as quickly as you can think of them All this, with only two blatant horoscope errors: An erroneous match suggestion that Punchhopper’s best friend would be anyone other than Kickhopper, and an erroneous match suggestion that Punchopper’s rival would be anyone other Kickhopper. Good set of Net Movies! https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ooo/letslook1b.png |
I think I’ll wait until you’re at 48 to comment on these.
On the plus side, it gives me a few days to close the gap in my own rewatch of OOO (though not by much, since I’ll only be closing the gap by three episodes, due to my watch schedule) |
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LET’S LOOK! ONLY YOUR 48 RIDERS - EPISODES 13-24
https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ooo/letslook2a.png I would normally say that these attempts at divination and soothsaying are complete horseshit, but then this series of Net Movies is like You Are Faiz, and now I feel like they’re the most relevant selection of tokusatsu materials of all time. Let’s see what else they can teach us! -How to enjoy modern technology by preordering the new iPhone 16eee today -How to cook with love in your heart, or at least fake it enough to impress a narcissist -How to ruin your own treats -How to cheat at cards by transmutating your opponents into inanimate objects -How to defeat your girlfriend’s disapproving father with clinical depression and a minor amount of horrifying threats -How to defeat a picky eater through deafening music and a lack of awareness as to what drumming has to do with eating food -How to defuse tension with a friend by realizing that there are even more ineffective and toxic friendships out there besides yours -How to be a good member of the Kamen Rider fan community by enjoying the hidden gems of the franchise -How to find the right foods for the season -How to massively overeat -How to cheat at cards by changing your fate It’s not… it isn’t what I’d call helpful, you know? It’s all pretty terrible, not withstanding ZX’s impassioned plea for respect. (He’d get it, eventually!) Also, why in the world is the stock image of Todoroki the one with the drumsticks?! https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ooo/letslook2b.png |
LET’S LOOK! ONLY YOUR 48 RIDERS - EPISODES 25-36
https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ooo/letslook3a.png It just keeps going! There’s a real lethargy that sneaks in as you hit the 4th or 5th iteration of a sketch during these Net Movies – the realization that very little is actually changing from version to version, because they needed to film, like, a dozen of the same setups in a single day. It’s not bad, exactly, but it really makes you think that they probably could’ve done 24 of these things and it would’ve been fine. The extra ones just feel like extra ones. (The Shocker Family sketches feel the most exhausted, from a creative standpoint, but the Ankh’s Lucky Color ones do not fare substantially better as they progress.) There can be too much of a good thing, and Four Dozen is definitely into the outer limits of any fan’s enjoyment of Kamen Rider absurdity. But we are not done yet! Let’s Look at what new lessons we got to learn! -How to defeat your girlfriend’s disapproving father with a forceful embrace of your positive qualities and a minor amount of sprinting away from other people -How to defeat a picky eater through knife skills and a lack of clarity as to how fine something should be chopped -How to defuse tension with a friend by admitting it’d be better if one of you wasn’t dead -How to be a good member of the Kamen Rider fan community by understanding the difference between fan terms and official terms -How to get crushed by a rock -How to allow for personal growth in others, while still deeply resenting it -How to maybe have some tofu instead of constantly eating only ice cream -How to cheat at cards by endlessly replaying the same moment, which sort of doesn’t seem like it’s going to give you different cards, but maybe you can just use the opportunity to fold instead of betting -How to be defeated by your girlfriend’s disapproving father with an invitation to dance and a minor amount of assuming you won’t be killed -How to defeat a picky eater through yelling at food and a lack of clarity as to which foods are actually villainous -How to defuse tension with a friend by bonding over Scissors’ magnificence -How to be a good member of the Kamen Rider fan community by refusing to let the franchise grow beyond the attributes that first engaged you, regardless of how the newer attributes might engage a different generation of fans We’ll get to my favorite setup next time, for the conclusion, but I gotta say that the Shocker Family ones just never feel like they’ve got even a single move on them, let alone a twist to act as a punchline. Crushed by a big rock! That’s it! That’s what you get! No wonder Kamen Rider has been trying to obliterate this secret society for 40 years. https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ooo/letslook3b.png |
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LET’S LOOK! ONLY YOUR 48 RIDERS - EPISODES 37-48+EX
https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ooo/letslook4a.png Jesus Christ, we’re all done! Certainly more of a trial than a reward, but still a worthwhile exploration of OOO’s contribution to the Phase 2 Net Movie canon. After crunching the numbers with my own panel of Kamen Rider mascots – PoppinGummy, Negataros, Captain Ghost, and Sabaki – here’s how I’d rank the various premises of these Net Movies, from Best to I’d Rather Watch That Final Tsurugi Episode Of Kabuto A Billion Times Than Watch Another One Of These: State of the Union Bell Peppers Partner Fight Marriage Meeting Lucky Food Poker Battle Lucky Color (Ice Cream) Shocker Family Honestly, it’s just the first two that reliably delivered throughout. (I could’ve watched a hundred more of the State of the Union sketches. Exactly my sense of humor.) The middle four had a few hits and misses, but were mostly just okay. The final two took FOREVER to get to the new footage, and rarely ever felt like there was even half of a joke inside. If you’re not an insane person like me who feels the need to watch everything, just watch the State of the Union and Bell Pepper ones. For the final time, though, Let’s Look at what we learned! -How to make bondage safe and fun for the whole family -How to smuggle some light nutrition into meals -How to ruin a joke sketch by treating the stick as the unfinished form of ice cream, rather than individual ingredients that are less appetizing in isolation, but I guess the grips in charge of setup wanted to be done for the day and a bunch of sticks are a way faster set of props -How to cheat at cards by having an additional card beyond the maximum -How to defeat your girlfriend’s disapproving father with hidden massage skills and a minor amount of lethal strikes -How to defeat a picky eater through aggrieved insults and a lack of clarity as to what constitutes a Kamen Rider -How to defuse tension with a friend by recognizing the boundaries of your friendship, especially the physical ones -How to be a good member of the Kamen Rider fan community by not dwelling so much on the more inflammatory or embarrassing corners of the franchise, and allowing them to merely be quaint diversions from the mean -How to, uh… man, what? The fan sprays water and then the kid gets doused from above? What the hell? -How to recover from a terrible sketch by calling back one of the most amazing jokes from Kabuto -How to berate the staff -How to cheat at cards by HEY WHAT’S THAT OVER THERE -How to be a good member of the Kamen Rider fan community by not getting hung up on the details of a show, like when a series says there’s going to be 48 short films and then suddenly there’s a random 49th one about G3 Glad I finally watched these, even if they will do me no good on tomorrow’s rewatch of Den-OOO. Why was Kivat in these, again? https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/ooo/letslook4b.png |
My main takeaways from this series of shorts.
Hina’s father being General Shadow makes too much sense. The only way to beat General Shadow, Garren and Chalice at cards is to cheat. Ankh really should just go out and buy his own Ice pops. Ichigou wasn’t given his meds either for his speech, or for the next three years. |
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