Not dead but is dying. Toy sales are down. There's no denying that. If Disney isn't careful it could be completely dead after Rise of Skywalker debuts.


*sequels. I see. You are quite young. Probably not even an adult yet. I can see why you argue with emotion. I remember that phase. Narratively dead is when a franchise paints itself into a corner and doesn't know what story to tell or how to fit it into the overall narrative or when a story is so dull fans lose interest and things are retconned to what the audience might like. By that point you might as well reboot some if not the whole fictional universe.



Billy Dee Williams, Carrie Fisher, James Earl Jones in Empire Strikes Back. But Yeah keep telling yourself it's about "bigotry."

Yo, my guy, wrong fandom. The Vulcans are in Star Trek, you can drop the complete and utter condescension about emotions.
Especially when your whole argument is based around what you feel
and you’re ignoring literally any evidence to the contrary.
Which, I mean, not surprising. People who screech about “facts not feels” literally always do that.

Anyways Star Wars is still going strong, in basically all regards. I’m hyped for the next episode, and basically everything else that’s coming out soon.

How bout everyone stops arguing in circles here.

Sorry, but I had to step in...

I come from an era where RotJ was still a hit, and where people were hyped by a new Star Wars movie : TPM.

We were in awe when watching the Podracer race or the fight against Darth Maul...We also hated Jar Jar Binks and thought that Yoda looked like shit.

The prequels weren't all that good but they narratively told you a story.
Even if they were bad, merchs and goodies were going full speed because it was Star Wars, and you had Lucasart with the amazing Dark Force games.

The EU made Star Wars more than a story, it was a legend, a universe where you could be someone in this huge place, where awesome stories and awesome characters were created.

Disney killed all that because "meh"...Disney and Kat Kennedy killed it all because they wanted to create their own Extended Universe.

They did an Episode VII that was good with JJ Abrams but some people thought that something was wrong, people complained that it was too similar to A New Hope.

Episode VII was kind of telling you a story, Luke Skywalker was gone, the New Republic is now a resistance because the Nazis stroke again....

I defended the movie a lot because even if things were similar to A New Hope or the Phantom Menace, the movie told you something different.

But...Episode VIII was just utter trash, not because of Luke Skywalker, but how the movie was constructed, what Ryan Johnson with Kathleen Kennedy's approval was trying to do.

I can't believe that Johnson was a Star Wars fan with the way he butchered the universe.

Leia going full Mary Poppins is stupid.

The story with the fuel is stupid aswell, that pursuit dragged for nearly an hour and to what end? To see someone you know nothing about that acted like an asshole in front of the viewer sacrifice herself to save the resistance.
It was litteraly the BattleStar Galactica movie but in worse

I like some parts in this movie, like what happened in Canto Bight, the fight against the preatorian guard or even seeing Luke.

But GOSH, Luke HIMSELF was Out of Character! The guy saved someone that was well beyong saving by bringing back to the light, and a single touch of darkness in his Nephew and he goes batshit insane.
That's not how the Luke we knew from the EU acted.

I would have preferred to see Ben Solo being seduced by some Dark force that would explain why Luke would lose his renewed Jedi Order than turning partially to the Dark Side just because that kid was afraid of getting killed! ( like a Force Projection of Palpatine/Snoke or whatever, Marka Ragnos)

A lot of things are wrong in this movie and that's not because Luke died that I'm pissed at Lucasfilm/Disney.

Rogue One was good, how could they failed a numbered episode?

Episode 7 was a hit, whatever what people can say, because merchs and goodies sold out. But that's not the case starting with Episode 8.

You can still find old Black Series figures from Episode 8 at discount, and they are NOT selling, the Solo figures are barely selling aswell. And Tamashii Nations slowed down the releases of Star Wars figures.
They also have NO new prototype to present.

Medicom with the Mafex Line dropped the ball, they're not doing anymore Star Wars action figures.

The new extended Universe is barely keeping the franchise alive because only the Thrawn stories or even the Vader stories are working.

The Episode IX trailer had a false hype with that "Dark Rey" shit.
That goddamn trailer made you watch more than 1 minute of old episodes while telling you strictly NOTHING about the movie.

I'm holding my judgement about Episode IX but seeing that its foundation is Episode HATE it will need more than 2 hours to repair the damage done by that garbage.

I was a huge Star Wars fan, but knowing that it's Kat Kennedy at the head of Lucasfilm is not reassuring to me, she needs to be gone.
Having an Obi Wan Kenobi series? Great, people asked for it...riiight, but are you really interested to know what Kenobi did during Episode 3 and 4 while already knowing that he kills Maul for good? What's the point? We don't need to know or to be told everything or else you'll just hurt the original narrative.

You would have told me that there was a series like this years ago, I would have been happy, but nowadays I'm not.

The Mandalorian? Heh, I know nothing of it, but knowing that Favreau is behind it....Meh no thanks, I'll stick with Boba Fett still being alive by being clever.

Star Wars is at a semi dead state, and if Episode IX is as bad as VIII, it will kill Star Wars for good.

Sorry for this rant.


This was emotional, and we are all Star Wars fans, all of our opinion matters because they can elevate the level of the debate. But there are bound to be some walls when the Sequels didn't work for the oldies.

i GUARANTEE if we'd had the Internet in 1980 we'd be seeing the same sort of complaints about Empire that we see about The Last Jedi.

How.

Doubtful. Public forum still existed via print and word of mouth. Plus merchandise sales indicates it was well received. And if people truly objected to a tough woman and a black man in position of power (be it good or evil), then A New Hope would have bombed at the box office like Fox predicted. Outside the internet I run into tons of people that adore the original trilogy, young and old, but do not care for this Disney trilogy so far. A lot of that had to do with The Last Jedi.

Though I am not in favor of arguing by emotion, this is how someone should conduct themselves when arguing based on emotions. State what they like or dislike about how the franchise is being handled and why. They don't call anyone names or attempt to argue against facts with emotions, just states how they feel about the current situation with the franchise. Even if this person was arguing in favor of Disney I'd still respect it.

Toy Sales are going down across the board due to a bunch of factors. Rise of Skywalker would have to bomb completely to even harm Star Wars, and even then we'll still have the Disney+ shows guaranteed to keep momentum going for a while. But you could say that about any franchise.


Thanks Dexilay for already replying to this bit for me. But while I'm sure you think you sound like some kind of wise Jedi Master, you just come across as a condescending tool. Doesn't matter how young I am, that doesn't somehow make me less right than you.


Not a fair comparison to having Rey, Poe and Finn being front stage (especially when I can still remember "StOrMtRoOpErS aReNt BlAcK" discourse from 2015), plus a much wider diversity in background characters. Plus, this.

ALSO
http://www.acriticalhit.com/fans-rea...kes-back-1980/
Here's a source of some letters, including a fan review that proves Empire wasn't so beloved when it came out. So yes, we can basically guarantee that the same arguments would have happened.

Anyway, I'm done. There's no winning with this, so I'm just gonna go and be positive about a film instead of sulking.

TLJ actually had more of a reason to be exceedingly scrutinized thanks to having more legacy behind it than Empire.

Take Snoke for instance. You didn’t need to know about where the emperor came from because he was the emperor. That told you enough. You could theorycraft where he came from but with nothing shown about the rise of the empire yet, there’s nothing to really get wrong in writing him.

Snoke just exists with no explanation of where he was during the GCW beyond a couple JJ Mystery Box lines about being around possibly during it. And because we saw the GCW, we want to know what happened. We want to know who the heck this guy is. And then he just gets cut in half with no ceremony because apparently he doesn’t matter anymore and you shouldn’t care about killing the big bad two acts in to a three act story. Which is far as writing is concerned, is a complete Richard relocation. That is to say, a dick move.

I have so much hatred toward Ryan Johnson and Episode 8 that it’s difficult to be positive with Episode 9. JJ Abrams, that I respect a lot, said that 9 would answer all the questions we had... it’s coming from a guy who worked on Lost.

All in all I think it was a bad idea to have different directors for each episode...