It's called giving a shit, and making the most of what you got. Of course all of Gundam exists to kock model kits, but at least other series attempt to also tell a story along the way.

I see this excuse brought up all too often, as if it's infallible, this idea that being completely unashamedly self-aware somehow makes for a better story than, like, actually trying to tell a story. So what if Build Fighters "knows what it is?" All Gundam series know what they are, but they don't give up and go for the easiest, lowest-common-demoninator take on product shilling there is. It's, in my view, lazy "storytelling."

G Gundam to me was a far superior attempt at self-ridicule whilst also having a heart. It knew it was silly, and the more absurd, abtract Gundam designs directly poke fun at the need to shill model kits, no matter how ludicrous, in Gundam. But it did so with an earnest love for its wacky little universe. It wasn't literally the toys fighting each other.

It's like if in Pokemon, the Pokemon weren't real, they were just YuGiOh-style projections in a card game in the show. Or if the Transformers weren't alien robots, they were actual toys that came to life like Toy Story.

Build Fighters' oh-so-commendable self-awareness about being a toy shill is undercut by the fact that it is still a relentless, cynical toy shill.

On top of, you know, having stories with actual conflict and stakes. There's no stakes in Build Fighters because it's just a game about toys. You don't have to have constant fighting or death to have stakes or conflict, but real people with real problems are generally far more relatable than children playing with toys.

Making Gudnam a toyline in its own universe makes it mundane. It's a very cynical, thoughtless way to create a story with audience surrogates for the kids.

Apparently you can't have stakes in a show without death. What? Losing is still a possibility and there's stakes in that.

Except Build Fighters did have a story you might not like it but it did have one.

Build Fighters' story was about a kid learning to have confidence in himself and make his dreams come true Reiji and Sei both talk about this in the last episode.

Build Fighters was also a giant love letter to the Gunpla community showing the creativity and joy that comes from Gunpla building which is why so many enjoyed it.

Frankly I think it's sad that that makes it "cynical" to you.

So Sei's confidence issues,Mao's desperation to beat a rival,Nils' learning to loosen up and enjoy himself more and Yuki's using Gunpla to escape from others' expectations of him aren't relatable?

Build Fighters did have stakes the pride in winning with the model you built with your own hand or losing and having it destroyed. They aren't world changing or life&death but wholly relatable to anyone who's played a sport or game competitively.

I'd rather have a fun show that's a love letter to the fandom like Build Fighters or Gunpla Builders over patronizing anti war dreck like SEED,AGE,Wing or Tomino at his worst any day.

I didn't say that, I actually said the exact opposite as a pre-emptive measure because I knew it'd be the first thing someone would try to refute when they flipped into defense mode. But losing in a fictional, even within the universe, fight between toys is trivial and mundane as far as stakes go. It's childish, literally.

It's a very token story though.

You could've done that without the silly setting of fictional Gunpla battles, though. Rather than be those concepts in earnest, it's put against a backdrop that by its nature removes tension because it's a game for kids. You could apply all those character traits to actual pilots in other Gundam universes and it'd be even more engaging.

I'm sure it would like you to think that. As a Gundam fan who's gradually but surely expanding his knowledge of the Gundam franchise, I know now that unlike other toy selling properties, Gundam's roots don't lie in toys. It lies in drama, and story, and the toys were actually a vehicle for the show to tell its tale, not the other way around as I once suspected. You'd think a show that was trying to homage and be a massive love-letter to it's fans and community wouldn't trivialize itself and within it's own story and put the toys ahead of the plot and history of the brand. Oh cool, a black Turn-A showed up for a second. Whoopie. How about homaging and paying respects to Turn-A's charatcers, or it's dark history plot? Why not homage its deep history and character-focused dramas by making its own deep history and character-focused story?

Oh, no, I guess seeing Ramba Ral show up as a funny old man with a plastic toy of his Mobile Suit is neat, I guess. Oh look, they referenced the Dom he never got. Huh. (And I actually really want the Dom R35, too)

No, because those are all problems born about by the characters, rather than real problems. They're non-quantifiable, token strifes that, like I said, lose what little weight they could have because of the silly backdrop.

You say that like competative sports are themselves at all compelling fictionally as well.

See, G Gundam also had a tournament setup, but that was actual fighting by actual fighters with real stakes because the fights were real. Even though they were mostly non-lethal due to the rules, the conflict was real within the universe. Plus, because it was real conflict, higher stakes and greater threats were still possible without changing the setting.

In Build Fighters the conflict is fake. Literally, it's a game in a computer. It's the same reason stories about kids playing video games are boring because it's not real. I'm honestly surprised I have to describe the difference between pretend fighting with toys and real fighting with weapons, and why one is more intense than the other.

EDIT: And let me just clarify, and bring this back to my original point and why I brought up BF to begin with. I don't like BF personally of course, but I don't hate it. My initial point of contention was because it's such a unremarkable, standard kid toy vehicle show, is out-performing more quality, story and character-driven shows that have real nuance and more mature themes. And when I say mature, I don't just mean violence. Turn-A is one of my favourite Gundam shows and has little real violence in it. Ditto G Gundam. I also certainly don't think it's the worst Gundam show, as AGE and SEED which were both brought up are easily worse.

But it's easily one of the safest Gundam shows. It's not terribly violent, heady, or ambitious. It lacks identity as a result, and just feels so typical of anime, especially children's anime. You look at other Gundam series like IBO or even OVAs like Thunderbolt, and those have veyr clear identities. They have their own feel, their own voice and world, and you can feel the creator's own vision, regardless of if you like it or not. Build Fighters doesn't feel like the product of a vision, it just feels like product.

Well what is really at stake for losing a game? Oh no, no trophy for the loser. How horrible.

I'm not knocking Build Fighters at all because what I saw of it was entertaining, it's just not for me. I'd rather have a show about war. When I want game matches I'll watch Yu-Gi-Oh!'s seasons that came after Duel Monsters.

Have you ever competed in... anything? Seriously? Have you never had the desire to excel in something, even something so simple as a hobby or game?

I'm sorry but that's flat out wrong 0079 got canned because of bad ratings in fact the entire last arc got rewritten because the show was canceled.

If it wasn't for Bandai putting out model kits in the 1980s the show would've faded into obscurity and we wouldn't have a Gundam franchise.

Since then Gundam's always been a vehicle to sell the kits.

Want proof? The Hyaku Shiki/Delta Gundam was redesigned in Zeta Gundam to be a support suit because it's transformation was too complicated to replicate as a toy at the time. In fact Heavy Metal L Gaim's and Five Star Stories' mechs were purposely designed by Mamoru Nagano to be difficult to make toys of because he hated the toyetic policies of Bandai who heavily sponsored Gundam.

What he meant was, Gundam was not created to sell toys first and foremost, that came later, rather than a show that was originally meant to advertise toys.

Well, at least from Tomino's end, Bandai always intended to make their money back with toy sales, as they were doing with every other mecha show at the time. Which is the reason why the Gundam actually has a color scheme at all, having originally been meant to be grey.

Anyway, I don't think Build Fighters is cynical so much as just aimed at a different aspect of the fandom. It's for the side of the fandom that buys model kits less for the show but rather for the kit itself. For folks more interested in making a custom variant, like making them into freaking Sailor Scouts or something, than things like weathering and trying to recreate something from the show.

Basically, replace the Build Fight with, I dunno, model train display competitions and the story still works for the most part. It's just more marketable to have fights between various mobile suits from across the franchise because, guess what, that's cool. It's cool to see all these designs that don't have to bend a knee to the throne of "realism" and just go nuts with trying to be a neat design.

That's why I brought up the first Gundam getting canned then rescued via toys.

Because it doesn't matter what Tomino intended with 0079 since 1985 the series has been designed to sell toys with the plot written around it.

Actually it's for any Gunpla enthusiast as Mr. Rall does say people build kits for different reasons like fighting,making their own thing or simply showing their love for the franchise by recreating scenes from it.

Ironically Try does have an artistic Gunpla contest as a side plot in it.

And in fairness Nobel Gundam is based on Sailor V so it's only natural people would make the other Scouts.:p

Dude, you are talking about the person who has applied for over 1200 full time teaching positions over the course of 5 years and has yet to land one. So yes, it sucks to lose, but there is no point in getting all bitter over it.

That's pretty much everything animated though.

Young Justice, Thundercats, Symbiotic Titan, and Voltron Force were all canceled because they either had shitty toy sales or no toy sales at all (due to the toys not existing yet). It wasn't Voltron Force's garbage story that ended the show, it was the lack of toys. In fact, I believe Samura Jack was also canceled beause of poor toy sales.