Sentai is right. Libra and Garrens actor are one and the same. They actually made a few jokes about it last year in the Fourze Net Movies & Super Hero Taisen Net Movies.

Sorry, after that I stopped paying attention :lol

On episode 44 of Ryuki, hoping I can finish it before I have to leave for work in about 3 1/2 hours.

...Imperer...as in like..impala? Hahahaha!

Also what is with Shinji's shirt? It says stuff like "Bullshit Artist", "Womanizer", "Pothead", etc. WTF?

Edit: And now the last two episodes!

Edit Edit: And manly tears were shed.....but again I have one complaint hitting the reset button...really?

Edit Edit Edit: And now that I'm home from work I can finally post my thoughts in a bit more depth.

Ryuki had the potential to be my absolute favorite season of Kamen Rider to date. I loved the dark tone, I loved the rider designs, I loved the characters, I really dug the story. There were some great rivalries and relationships that built and grew over the course of the season. I actually cared about the different riders, I cared about why they were fighting (well, their reasons anyways, wasn't quite as big on the reason behind their fighting as a whole). The ending was just such a slap in the face though. I know I complained about both W and Fourze for similar reasons, but more than even those I feel Ryuki's end was a huge disservice to the entirety of the season that led up to it. What is the best way to **** up all the character growth and development, all the sacrifices, the drama, the relationships, everything that made the season what it was? How do you make it so every single event never actually mattered? You go and, quite literally, press reset. Seriously, I am genuinely pissed off, and that only grew over the hours I was at work after finishing the show. If Ryuki had ended about halfway through Episode 50 it would have been hands down the best season of Kamen Rider I have ever seen, and it likely would always hold that title. But no, it went and did something completely unforgivable to me. I got emotionally involved and invested in these characters, the dynamics between them, and to go and pull that crap was just wrong. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not all about doom and gloom, I don't think a series has to have a sad ending to be good, but a season like Ryuki? It ended perfectly with Ren slouched on the floor in Eri's room, likely dead, and then cutting to the broken glass showing all these characters we grew to know, possibly to care about, knowing what they have gone through, having seen them all come to their untimely end because of one man's selfish wish, it was the perfect ending. And then they simply press reset, everyone goes back to normal, nothing ever happened. And why does this piss me off so much? Because it invalidates the entire series. All that character growth? Gone. The relationships? Never happened. The entirety of the show was rendered meaningless. Yes yes I understand the whole thing with Shirou and Yui, that doesn't excuse it. At the very least those involved should have remembered. I know they kinda hint at that with Ren (who really had no business showing up at Atori like he did, considering his entire reason for being involved there revolved around Yui and the war between the riders, it was just how they decided to neatly tie the ending together, ditto with Megumi working at ORE Journal, what the hell? Sorry for going on and ranting like that, but it just pissed me off. The season was so damn good, it brought tears to my eyes at the end, and I just feel like they were wasted....AGAIN.

Trying to think of what else I have to say. I ended up really liking the mirror world aspect. It was cool in concept, creepy and unnerving in execution, and the use of sound when someone or something was coming from mirror world...brilliant, that very shrill noise just makes you feel incredibly uneasy. I especially loved that people, not just main characters, but average every day citizens actually were killed off...pretty much in every single episode at that. I just came off of watching W and Fourze before this, and have been watching Wizard as it goes on and you just don't see anything like that in those. Hell deaths in general are pretty rare occurrences in the more recent seasons from what I've seen, yet Ryuki has main characters, side characters, villains, etc. all having pretty violent deaths, even if they are mostly implied. And some of the ramifications of those deaths are heart-wrenching, such as when Toujou kills Sagawa, leaving behind his wife and child...that hit really hard, and then seeing him sacrifice himself to save another father and son, which I will admit felt incredibly out of character for him in a sense, despite it concluded his whole wanting to be a hero schtick. Or OMFG when Shinji sacrificed himself, getting stung in the back by one of the mirror monsters...seeing him bleeding out after he and Ren fight them off, that was just...wow, and probably one of the most important scenes in the season, that being the moment that really pushes Ren, it humanizes him. Here's the guy that wanted the fighting to stop, his whole goal was to put an end to it, to stop the killing, and he was so painfully conflicted over it, and he died fighting, and Ren finally accepted the bond they shared as friends, it was a really powerful episode. And as I said, I loved the characters, Shuuichi was one that really really grew on me over the course of the season, as did Gorou. And again just the dynamic between the riders, rivals meant to fight to the death, and they almost grow this bond and friendship between them, despite what they have been tasked with ultimately doing, it made it all the harder to see them grow so close. I really really want to say that Ryuki was my favorite series, it deserves that distinction. I just find it really hard to when the last bit of episode 50 really really pissed me off.

Oh, and the opening is easily on of my favorites by far, especially when it gets to the chorus with Ryuki surrounded by mirrors and the sparks all around him...just love it. Either that or W Boiled Extreme are my favorite openings of any season I've seen so far.

Man I loved Ryuki! I'm not much bothered by what happened at the end it never lessened how much I liked it. And wasn't it such a strong cast of characters? I think that's one of the draws of this show is that while it had a huge cast, they were pretty memorable.

Anyway, finished episodes 2 & 3 of Blade. We're introduced to the third rider Hajime AKA Chalice. Well they didn't bother to hide that he's an Undead what with the green blood and all. And they have they're own language too ala Grongi of Kuuga. And we have a bit of explanation as to why Tachibana betrayed BOARD. Don't know if his right but I think he thinks he is.

Sorry double posted:o

The ending of Ryuki never bothered me either. It's not a giant middle finger like Dairanger where the story just repeats itself. If you watch the Ryuki movies then the ending of the show can be taken in a better context. Yes it was a reset but Kanzaki fills in why in the movies. He was attempting to create the perfect reality, the perfect outcome for the war. The TV ending was the one that satisfied him, that got the results he wanted. So as a gift to the riders he used and allowed to die he gave them their lives back as though it had never happened.

Once again, the ending to DaiRanger did not stick up a middle finger. The rangers defeated Shadam and stopped the Earth from being destroyed by Great God Dragon. It just states that a war that has gone on for centuries is not going to end in one small year long conflict, which was far more realistic than, "main bad leader is dead, war is over people." That is all I can say here without bringing political discussions into it. Is it a perfect ending? No. Is it a realistic ending that fits the serious themes of DaiRanger? Yes.

Anyway, my favorite rider opening is Break the Chain. The song is awesome (especially the non-tv edit version). The video itself is pretty bad ass, especially the cinematography used in it. I also really love the first Blade opening too.

As for Ryuki, again, the movies to me are not canon at all. They do not count, they do not exist, and that is what makes me more mad that they built this show up around 13 riders and only bothered to feature 10 of them in the actual story. I don't buy the whole, "this is what could have happened" bit because we never actually saw Kanzaki reset the world in the movie or either of the 13 rider endings. If the movie had continued when Ren and Shinji went off the fight those giant bugs with Kanzaki actually revealing who Odin was, and using Odin to reset the universe, then I could except that belief, but it didn't happen. Even Yui's origin is too different in the movie from how it actually happened in the tv series.

Except that it did. The ENTIRE series is invalidated because the struggles and sacrifices meant nothing. In the end the battle quite literally repeats itself. It doesn't matter that it's a long war or can't be solved in a year or whatever. The descendants of the very people who fought the war in the first place are perpetually forced to continue fighting it. It never ends.

At least with Ryuki there is resolution. The sacrifices and struggles of all the characters resulted in their lives being better than they'd been before. They got to have that war expunged from them. They never had to suffer through that again. An ending without resolution is pointless. AKA (in my opinion) Dairanger, a cyclical war. I know it's your favorite show and no matter what anyone says you'll defend it, but at the end of the day there's a logical argument for that being a terrible ending and yes, a middle finger to fans.

So does that mean the ending to Kiva invalidated the series because the Fangires are back to attack humans? Or the ending to 555 invalidated the series because the king is not dead? How about Blade, because there are still two Undeads walking the Earth? Hibiki never had them finish the actual guy and girl. Kabuto too, as they never actually defeated the Worms. Hell, even W, OOO, and Fourze can be invalidated because Foundation X is still on the loose.

Still watching Dairanger, I can't really comment, but that doesn't sound realistic. Wars do end.
The biggest problem is that a viewer just spent 50 episodes to watch nothing happen, since the efforts of these characters is ultimately useless.

It'd be like if Saving Private Ryan ended with Ryan getting sniped by a unseen sniper under the vein of "It's more realistic that way."

QFT. I don't expect much in an ending, as long as the conflict ends.

EDIT: Wow, with all the Dairanger talk, I thought this was the Sentai thread. :lol

For what it's worth, Kiva's ending was pretty bad, and I hated that it meant Kiva II has to continue fighting.

The other endings, though, are different. They're not implying that all their work will be for naught, that their descendants will have to fight, and their descendants, and so on.
There's a difference between killing the boss and having a few underlings still around, and killing the boss and telling the viewers that their work amounted to nothing.
(Also, the remaining 2 Undead in Blade are saving the world by existing. You know that)

Yes. The endining to Faiz is an enormous slap in the face. Nothing is resolved, no questions are answered, and we're just given a lot of cliffhangers that ultimately go nowhere.

Now for me, I didn't hate the Dairanger ending. And that's because to me it works as a good horror ending. The Dairangers defeat their enemies and convince Daijinryu to leave the Earth in peace. Then, fifty-some years later, another group of Gorma revive and the Dairangers' grandchildren and their terrible clothing go off to restart the war, all while the original Dairangers watch on in terror, knowing that even though the new generation things they're saving the world, all they're really doing is sending out the message that Earth is not at peace, which means Daijinryu is going to come back and destroy the world. Viewed that way, it's actually a really, really dark ending and I kinda love it.

Well I can't explain due to politics, but let's put it this way, nothing changed in that desert country when those two mad men were gone.

Besides, we don't know if the events are going to end up the same. Like I said, do I completely agree with the ending? No, but after watching the series multiple times it fits the themes of the show.

Anyway, yeah, I actually forgot this was the KR topic, so I'm going to stop here.

And I agree that the ending to 555 is a slap in the face. In fact, the last 10 episodes of the show were as well, but it still did not invalidate the series.

Watched the Perseus arc of Fourze, which ended with me ordering SHF Meteor, Meteor Storm and Meteor Star on Mandarake.

I'm not even sure I'm going to like Meteor all that much, but I found I had a lot of money in my paypal account from selling things, and Meteor and Meteor Storm were only 1500 each so it seemed like a crime not get them.

Anyway, I enjoyed the story, I'm curious to see what they do with Meteor, and how his character will fit into the show. I hope I like him. I didn't like Accel at all, for a long way thru the show, but in the end I realized I liked him quite a lot, so hopefully I won't hate Meteor, since i ordered all of his figures in one go.

Also watched Wizard ep 4. I find Rinko to be very attractive and Koyomi to be a bit of a bitch. Well, to Rinko and Shunpei. Shunpei is a nobody so far, but he looks like he might become annoying if they aren't careful with him. Haruto is engaging enough so far.

I really dig Wizard's design, and I'm liking the magic aspect of it.

Incredibly late to the show, but I've started on Wizard and thus for I'm getting kind of a retro feeling from it...

Meteor was a pretty wacky but awesome design so I loved it. Being space Bruce Lee really helps though :lol

I can't say I'm actually a fan of Bruce Lee. I've never seen a single thing with him in it.
I own a few movies that I got cheap in some collection at like Ross for $10 or something, but haven't watched them yet.

Oh I don't like any of his movies personally but I respect the man and his skills. He was an artist.

Saving the world without killing Hajime is more correct.

I dunno, maybe I'm just hard to please. I'm not letting the ending ruin the rest of the series for me, 10 bad minutes doesn't spoil several awesome hours afterall. And it has one of the best, most interesting cast of characters of any season of Kamen Rider I've seen to date. It just really bothers me when any form of fiction does what Ryuki did, and it is really difficult to forgive, especially for me having come off of other shows that did something very similar.

Ooh and looks like we have someone else watching through Fourze for the first time. Man that was a great show, just a lot of fun. Meteor is an awesome character, though I personally hated his Bruce Lee fight sounds.

For me, it depends. Usually I won't let an ending bother me unless it is really bad, like Evangelion/Big O/Heroes/Decade bad. Well, it isn't fair to lump Heroes with those three, as that show was canceled. In fact, Big O's ending did not bother me that much until I watched through the entire series for the 3rd time. The same goes for Wolf's Rain and RahXephon. On the other hand, I never watched Gilgamesh a second time after seeing its ending, and I thought that show was pretty good.

However, I think these days I am more unforgiving towards bad endings than I was 10 years ago, maybe even 5 years ago, due to how ***** endings have become. Especially when it is the likes of the Utena movie.

I, however, am not.
I'm very critical of how my shows end. Many shows work to some kind of resolution that the previous 12/26/50/whatever episodes before it led us to. I just feel rather vindictive when a ending just spits in your face (Like Decade's).

Stargate SG-1 pops to mind. "Series Finale? No... You'll get this Time Dialation episode, you want the finale you have to buy the DVD. Cause fuck you."

Exactly how I felt yesterday afternoon. Minus having to buy a DVD for an ending.

I guess Ryuki will just have to be like W and Fourze for me. Pretend that "x episode/part" never happened.

Anyways, guess I'll start OOO properly now since it's on my watch list. Not really sure what else to queue up. Anyone have suggestions?

Of the seasons I've watched I'd probably rank them like this:

Ryuki (minus the ending) > W (minus the ending) > Fourze = Wizard

To be fair it is pretty close between all of them.

Ryuki I loved the cast, loved how dark and serious it was, the stakes were high, people died, I actually cared about the riders and their motivations. W I loved the characters, the dynamic between Shotarou and Phillip, I LOVED the Sonozaki family, and the film noir feel the show had rubbed me the right way. Fourze I felt was just plain fun, the main cast were all really likable and the Zodiarts, especially the Horoscopes, were awesome awesome villains. Wizard I am enjoying, but it's..well not a complete series yet.

Well...am download Den-O now, apparently hahaha. Now Den-O, here's hoping your namesake delivers. Also, there's like...a lot of movies for Den-O, how necessary are they?

The first movie is canon to the series and takes place around the mid-20s. It's technically a sidestory, but there are several episodes of the series that set it up in advance so if you want to see the pay-off you need to catch the film.

The third movie serves as the epilogue for the series and does a good job of wrapping up the characters, especially Ryotaro. Mind you, it wasn't the end after all, but it was still good.

The rest of the movies are just fun stories with the characters. If you like the show enough you'll probably want to watch all of them. Even Climax Deka.

The first movie is more important than a side story since the final battle of it leads directly to the birth of Climax Form . It's pretty important and those 3 episodes that lead in weave their way in and out of the main episode plots really well.

Cliamx Deka is fairly forgettable but does take place after the end of the Den-O series. Technically still cannon with the show it just happens to feature Kiva when they previously hadn't alluded to other riders before.

Final Countdown is fanatastic, easily the best of all the Den-O films. Also after the series and Climax Deka. It's was going to be the resolution of everything Den-O but the franchise was so successful that it came back for more later.

At this point you should watch the Decade episodes that crossover with Den-O's world. This is when Ryutaros' actor was replaced by the actor who portrayed his young self in the 1st film, Ore Tanjou. These episodes set-up the 4th film, Onigashima Warship. Another fun film that actually sets up some significant back story and plot for Zeronos . This film led to the Chou Den-O Trilogy being made (Episodes Red, Blue, and Yellow). Themselves forgettable to all but the most die hard Den-O fans (me).

Then we get to Let's go Kamen Riders which still works for me in Den-O continuity if you pretend that all the other riders in it are the ones out of continuity :lol
And it's just a really good and fun movie in general. A true love letter to Ishinimori.

Well Decade did not have an ending.

NGW, what is wrong with W's ending?

Thanks for the info on the movies guys, will definitely make sure to check out the ones suggested then, and depending on how I feel on the series, the rest after that.

The last episode just felt unnecessary, really its only purpose was to bring Phillip back, which...well as you can probably guess is something that bothers me, I loved the character, was sad to see him go, but I find bringing him back was a cheap cop-out, personally.

Basically episode 48 was a great way to end the series. Episode 49 was great for those that really wanted that happy ending with Phillip back, but I personally choose to ignore its existence.

I feel like I must be the only person who thought W as a series was weak overall but that the last episode was really great.

I thought we already established that you were.
If you view Double as "Weak" then I have no idea what alternate dimension your bar of standards exists in.

Then I must be the only one who loved both W and the ending. :D I thought episode 48 was great and made me cry, but 49 really floored me and filled me with such joy. Those two episodes had some of the most emotional moments in Toku for me.

The only thing I really liked out of the last episode was seeing Shotarou moving on and him finding his way as Kamen Rider Joker.

I think what really made the episode for me, was the fact that it was Wakana who was responsible for resurrecting Phillip. It fully redeemed the messed up Sonozaki family and I was really happy for that.

The show just didn't seem to do anything out of the ordinary to me. It just seemed to be a really run of mill show aside from the 2 person 1 rider concept. Villains that didn't feel inspired, a supporting cast that wasn't really all that great or well developed, the 2 episode arcs were pretty boring, Foundation X was great, though they should have appeared much sooner. Accel was an awesome secondary rider, Skull was fantastic for what little we got of him, Nazca/Kirihiko was a great character but his death felt wasted. He should have become a rider, he should have been more than a footnote.

I often see people who love that show to death but I guess I just don't get it. It just felt so average to me. It wasn't bad but it just didn't have a lot going on to keep me interested. I loved Shotaro and Phillip and it's always nice to see them again. But this show being sandwiched between Decade and OOO makes it hard for me to love it. Decade was so awful that my expectations were really high for W so it fell short and since I was so disappointed by W I loved OOO by comparison.

Blade 4. Now we get some backstory of Hirose. So her father might have something to do with releasing the Undead. And I like that Chalice is an archer here. He gives me a Gills vibe maybe because he looks really wild compared to Blade and Garren. And the interaction between Kenzaki, Hirose and Kotaro kinda feels the same as the interaction between Takumi, Mari and Keitaro of Faiz. You got the main rider, the girl and a guy who knows about the riders and gives them a place to stay and tries to help. Interesting they went with that even though Faiz and Blade aired after each other.

I thought the last episode was great. Sure, it was a little bit of a cop out, but how else is a Kamen Rider that requires two people going to work with one person?

And I still think W is the best of the four modern series as the Sonozaki family is still the best set of villains and W is still the best of the riders. I also love the detective style of W.

You are not. :thumb:

Agreed on all counts.

I'll always love Fourze more because it was the first Rider show I followed from start to finish, but I think W is certainly the superior of the 4 Neo-Hesei series.

I agree with everything you said. Right up until you used the words "W" and "Superior".