Looks like these last moments of the show will not make you cry... Also wow, episode 47. I know I said something really similar in the Kabuto thread I think, but it feels like just a week ago when you were talking about Zeronos' debut or Kintaros first showing up.

My own experience with these last few episodes, I think I watched in bulk as I definitely remember the little moments with the main cast popping out to me, but certainly not any of the threats they were facing. What even is bad guy's plan? I certianly couldn't tell you, but the Kintaros turning that wish Ryotaro made into a sacrifice is something that has always stuck with me.

Also for as long as you like the process of like writing down your rider thoughts, you shouldn't worry about just being hard on a show just because its popular! (I mean, it'd be unfortunate if you didn't like a show even if everybody else in the world didn't either!) It's nice seeing your genuine first impressions on these things, and maybe kinda selfish of me, but its also been fun/funny to compare with what I remember to be my own first impressions, which I'm willing to bet has been fun for those who are diehard Time Nonsense fans too.

I have a couple of big issues with this episode. The first is that I don’t buy Kintaros’s sacrifice for a second. I mean, I buy the scene - it works and is totally in character for him - but I don’t buy the finality of it. Even disregarding 12 years of more Den-O content, I just never bought into the idea that the show would really kill off the Imagin. This isn’t Faiz; there’s never been a bittersweet ending or Pyrrhic victory in this show’s DNA.

My other issue is with the final arc pacing. The last episode ended on this massive emotional bomb with Airi and this one follows it up with... everyone hanging out and playing party games for New Years. The whole Airi situation doesn’t even get brought up until after the return of the bad opening theme. It’s frustrating because it feels like the show wants to get us drawn into this whole thing with the Junction Point and Ryotaro’s mission memories for the grand finale, but it’s still treating them like a subplot.

It's okay to have different opinions. Whether they're agreeable or disagreeable, what matters most is that they're authentic, so don't hesitate to say something unpopular! I think a lot of productive discussion can often be spurred by disagreement, since that causes people to think about the thing that they like and try and understand why they feel that way, which gives a better appreciation for it. It's interesting to see things from different angles!

I actually felt like Kintaros' heroic sacrifice happening on the corner of a rooftop was appropriately dramatic. But that's just my opinion. I would like to talk about the Time Nonsense element of it though, if you'll humor me, since I think this part isn't as trivial as you claim.

While Kintaros' death may be narratively convenient, I don't think it's fair to dismiss it as just that. I'm not going to pretend to be some expert on this show's Time Nonsense, but I understand the part about Memories = Time. Kintaros was the last Imagin to meet Ryoutarou (while Ryutaros' presence was still a secret), which means he has the least amount of memories of Ryoutarou and therefore his anchor to the present is naturally the one that erodes first, presumably followed by Urataros, Ryutaros and Momotaros in that order. That's my take on it anyway, based on how the show attempts to explain its logic.

Considering this point, does this give you more feelings, or maybe a better understanding, about Kintaros' heroic sacrifice?

I think it's humorous how I said something like, "get through 46 to enjoy 47" and you have the opposite reaction! But after reading your thoughts on 46, I realize I probably wasn't being totally fair on that episode, since I do recall having some feelings for the scene with Airi and the Riders on Denliner. It's mostly the Time Nonsense stuff with Sakurai I remember being frustrated with.

Sure dude.... Wait, why is this section so small though?

P.S. 500th post, yay! (now only 55 to go until the big one ;))

Kai's plan is some relatively simple distracting, which I kind of appreciate. Kai is sending Imagin back in time to cause trouble, which will lure at least one of the Kamen Riders to defeat them, leaving less defense around Airi. It's a little frustrating for how straightforward it is (doesn't have the strategy I usually associate with endgame villain plots), but it is a lot easier to comprehend. I mean, the heroes tell you in this episode what plan they're fighting against! That is huge!

Thanks! Half a milligram of Ativan and eleven hours of sleep later, I'm almost ready for another episode of Den-O.

Yeah, these are the two big flaws for me. The Kintaros one checks me out of the ending, and the New Year's stuff just rocketed me out of the beginning.

For the New Year's stuff, it's all about momentum. We ended the last story with a tragic sacrifice, and a plea from Airi to solve this problem so they can all be together again. This episode opens with everyone playing games on the DenLiner, and absolutely no plan to save any version of Airi. It's Ryotaro and Yuuto sitting around, waiting for Kai to attack, and it bugged me so much. There was all this heat coming out of 46, and then 47's like Well Since Nothing Important Just Happened Let's Have A Party. It would be like if 48 opens with everyone going to a waterpark to celebrate being friends, despite Kintaros just dying. Not only would that ruin 48, but it'd retroactively make me think that Kintaros' death in 47 didn't really matter at all.

And Kintaros' death... yeah, I couldn't suspend my disbelief. Mostly it's because we literally did an entire The Imagin Are Disappearing story that got resolved, so coming back on it for the finale doesn't feel plausible enough. But the way it happens here doesn't feel considered enough. I didn't feel like there was no other choice here, and that made it feel like the show was pushing Kintaros' character into making this choice.

Yeah, but it doesn't feel great having those different views. Like, I'm not concerned people'll get mad at me or stop reading. If they're not into reading what I think, that's totally fine. That isn't the part that gets difficult about these threads for me.

I don't find much/any pleasure on shitting on any show. It's not a blast to spend an hour ripping apart an episode from a franchise you love, and it's worse when you can't even muster an emotional connection to it. It's like falling out of love with someone, and it hurts. It feels like there's a failure in me. When it's a show that is largely considered one of the most popular Kamen Rider series of all time, it feels a) tacky to show up and say Ugh Not Good, and b) like I'm fundamentally missing the point of what the show is doing. That is not a fun combination of feelings to hold in my brain!

Not really? The timer of how long the Imagin can last, since this is the second time we've done this story, feels pretty narratively convenient. They just start fading away in this episode. Kin jumping into this fight with the Moles... it feels so abrupt to me, like we didn't wait until it was final, we just waited until it was possible for him to sacrifice himself. Like, it feels in this final fight that he was going to treat whatever the next fight was as a way to die in combat. I just didn't feel it was necessary, emotionally. Didn't feel like an appropriate end/"end" to that character or that relationship.

Was definitely racing to be done with this post by then.

Congrats! Your true life is gonna start!

Just my two cents but I feel like it’s easier to change the future when you’re not fighting against a the whole weight of history but a little over 2 dozen imagination monsters from the end of time. I’m thinking though, maybe there’s 3 futures now? The Airi/Sakurai one, the imagin one, and the tomorrow den-o will create.

So yeah, the reason is from what I catch before, is quite different from here (care about her means bring up those other things) if you care about particular thing, you'll just, even pretending to be neglect, ignore that flaws/the other things to keep enjoying that aspect, like for instance, Blade: Missing Ace, regarding its plot hole and detraction from the series as it's headed by different writer, and here you immediately declare that you care about Hana/Yuuto when speaking ill of the part of the "emotionally inert mystery plots" that involves them.

I brought up this as you seemingly refer to focusing maternal aspects and worrying about the boys as stereotypical, which is instead one of the praises in that episode.

Hmm, I wanna ask here, I don't know what makes you refer to her as mentally fragile here?

I guess, my feeling towards this is (and I dunno if this is your true feelings about this) that Kintaros' "death" feels just like a fake stakes and tension presented to the audience, I just don't believe that it'll stick, especially for a cash-cow season in Den-O. And before I've said about Ryotaro being a sweet toku hero that is against self-sacrifices, and partly joked/partly serious that Kintaros should listen to Ryotaro's outburst during that polar-opposite quality two parter (ep. 43-44). But Kintaros here didn't take into account for that moment and just goes on to solve the problem without any regards to his life by throwing himself to fight on those Imagin hordes. Kintaros should learn from Ryotaro that being morally upright doesn't mean you have to self-sacrifice at any given situation. Otherwise, yeah, the buildup to climatic situation in fights (Kai targeting Junction Point) are usually about either one big final boss wreaking havoc, or sending numerous goons at large quantity to attack various areas, or both with the latter as the beginning. What are the examples of the endgames of those 2 kind that has proper buildup to you?

Well yeah, it's both Airi and Sakurai's work, and the ones that actually don't understand are Ryotaro and Yuuto, instead of Airi who isn't being given the truth by Ryotaro. But well, really, it doesn't mean that Ryotaro and Yuuto didn't try to work to solve this problem btw, as the next episode will do (would you like for Airi to throw hands in this regard? though her job is actually keep this away from anyone which she did...). This episode partly has Kai working on his grand plan to target the Junction Point, which is presumed as Airi (with the twist of declaring it before, as Japanese reading of the names where it started with family name, so Kai started with "Nogami" but with some pause, to declare "Airi" instead of "Ryotaro"), but this comes off as a twist and shock for Kai.

The several plots on this show where Ryotaro desperately tries to keep Airi from remembering her past.

To me, it's a little less that I didn't buy they'd kill a popular character, but that the world of the show is set up to undo it. In a show where all of the Imagin have been saved from disappearing before, I'm not that invested in the threat of them disappearing again.

I feel like if I just learned that my sister had sacrificed herself and her fiance to buy time for me to defeat the monster that's targeting her, my next move wouldn't just be waiting around in case the crafty time assassin felt like attacking her again. Probably would've been a nice point for the heroes to get proactive, if the show wants to tell a story this tense. (Spoiler for the next post: maybe wouldn't've told this story to begin with!)

KAMEN RIDER DEN-O EPISODE 48 - "OPPOSITE GOODBYES…”

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I honestly don't even know what I think a Den-O finale should look like. I'm not sure what I'm even comparing this story to, that I'm finding it so underwhelming.

This one fares better than the last for me, simply for how focussed its storytelling is. There's a better pace to this one, where the mood stays grim and the stakes are high. Our heroes have lost a friend, and then they lose their home, and then they lose another friend. It's bleak! It is an appropriately bleak penultimate episode!

It's also one that has a tough time keeping a relatable emotional throughline, and that makes it an episode that isn't as frustrating to watch as 47, but still isn't as rewarding to experience as 46.

Like, this is one where Kai is just massively, apocalyptically sick of trying to puzzle out what the hell is going on with Airi, Sakurai, the Junction Point, etc., and I found that simultaneously hilarious, intensely familiar, and sort of indicative of how this show is such an ill-fit for Cataclysmic Finale. Watching Kai just declare his being So Over this stupid plot, the twists and turns and Time Nonsense of it all, in favor of just obliterating the present and letting the aftermath determine a victor... I loved the catharsis of that. I loved that there was a villain who feels as frustrated as I do, and is ending the show before it can throw one more unexplained/underexplained/undeveloped/underdeveloped plot twist at us. Much like Urataros and Kintaros sacrificing themselves at their best rather than withering away and dying, I like that Kai is sacrificing this show, that has so lost the charm of its past with me, while I'm still able to remember how much I love these characters.

And I do still love them! Urataros getting one last chance to be a lying scumbag while really just acting as a lying scumbag to trick the villains, that's a nice send-off for him. It's a slim-ass story, unfortunately. There is literally zero chance that Urataros is actually abandoning his friends to throw his lot in with Kai. Ryotaro eventually brings this up, sort of, but there's still a bunch of the early part of the episode that is trying to extract tension and drama out of a pretty unbelievable heel-turn, and that's a little insulting. Like, there's a reason why Ura's turn works on characters like Momo (an idiot) and Ryuta (a child), and maybe even Hana (looking for reasons to distrust Imagin) or Naomi (mostly just confused). But it shouldn't work on even the youngest viewer, so the episode holding off so long on Ryotaro's confirmation/cover is a bit of a drag. Still, it's cute to watch Ura manipulate the Mole Imagin, and him sacrificing himself at the end... I don't know, it's a thing the show is just going to keep doing. Not something I'm into, but pointless to complain about. Feels rushed and plot-driven rather than character-driven, whatever.

Speaking of plot-driven! Airi and Sakurai were secretly protecting their unborn child, and I literally don't know what I'm supposed to do with that information at the second-to-last episode of the series. They, like, Temporally Aborted it to keep it safe from the Imagin? And Ryotaro's supposed to Memorially Unabort it at some point after the Imagin are defeated? Am I getting that right?! Typical for Kobayashi, that seems like an enormous piece of context that is coming so far after it'd be useful that all I can do is absorb it, bug my eyes out, and move on. It is so impossibly late in the game for me to see it as anything other than a data point, like Airi is telling Ryotaro that she is hiding a medium-sized chocolate brownie from the Imagin that he'll be responsible for eating someday. Okay, lady! You got it! Hypothetical Baby! Sure, sounds great.

Anyway, hi, I'm still not into what this show is trying to do with its finale. It didn't bum out as much as last night, which I appreciate. I don't need to hide from my feelings about it again, so that's cool. Maybe I'm totally wrong on all this, and it's great, but I don't care. I'm watching it, and literally the only part I was able to relate to was Kai just wanting to raze it all to the ground. This show... I'm pretty sure I enjoyed it? In the past? I liked the imagination monsters from the end of time and the little problems they solved for people. I liked the messages about how to manage your emotions, or how to draw strength from bad memories. I liked the quaintness of it all, how much of a fun adventure it was to go on. This isn't any of that. It's a series that excelled at being small, choosing to go big at the end out of... obligation, or expectation, or misguided faith in their own production. It's like attending an intimate dinner party in a ballroom, and I'm just not enjoying it.

Rooting for Kai on this one!

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THE BAGGAGE CAR

-Have I mentioned Yuuto's recent haircut? It's a good one! It reminds me a lot of Kota Ibushi, one of the greatest wrestlers alive, and that's not a bad thing to be reminded of.

-Tomorrow's the finale! Oh boy!

It just so happens that tomorrow lines up with my birthday. Here’s my present (wait). The voice of the Death Imagin

Hiroshi Yanaka

Notable anime roles: Tsunan Tsukioka in Rurouni Kenshin: The Motion Picture, Naruku in InuYasha, Shikaku Nara in Naruto, Dr. Hamsterviel in Stitch.

Notable Tokusatsu roles: Arch Orphnoch in Kamen Rider 555, Lor-O-Thar-Rin the Hydra-pan Headder in Tensou Sentai Goseiger.

Notable dubbing roles: Jackson Curtis in 2012, Doc in Cowboys and Aliens, Chi-Chi Rodriguez in To Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything! Julie Newmar, Tybalt in Romeo+Juliet, Aurelio in the John Wick films, Mr. Gold in Once Upon a Time, Donald Menken in The Amazing Spider-Man 2, David Langley in Bean, Pius Thicknesse in Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, Buffalo Bill in the Silence of the Lambs.

And thus ends my running feature for this thread (which I quickly forgot the name for and I doubt many were that interested in), until the movies. For the Kiva thread, I’ll be doing something similar to what I did on the Blade thread: a mini fact file of the monsters (I’ll just say there’s a reason these ones don’t get names).

Looking forward to it! And happy early birthday! I hope it's a memorable one... but then I also hope it isn't a memorable one, so imagination monsters from the end of time don't eventually use your connection to that memory as pathway to destruction. I hope your birthday is... pleasantly unmemorable?