Den-O is the single most popular and most successful Kamen Rider series since the Heisei Era began. And is also the most light-hearted. It's your opinion that 'you can't be too light-hearted' as it is mine that 'you can't go too dark'. There are people that disagree with us both.

Like, I can see where you're coming from...I just fundamentally don't agree. I think Build is one of the best Rider series they've done...but so is Den-O.

Also, re: Ohranger...it was changed because people were breaking into houses and stabbing people as part of a cult movement. No terrified child should have to watch their favourite show on a Sunday morning, wanting just a moment of peace...only to be scared by that, too, just to please adults. I agree that Ohranger...is a disaster as a result...but it was still the best thing to do for the target audience.

So what? Just because something is popular doesn't mean my view is invalid. There's a lot of popular stuff out there that is straight junk. (Not Den-O; I won't call it junk but I'm not a big fan of it for several reasons. I do like that they were trying something different though)

This is the first time I'm hearing about people doing that. I only knew about the sarin gas attack in the Tokyo subway. Where did you read anything about pleasing adults in what I wrote? What I said Ohranger could have done would have been just as much for the kids, if not more than for adults.

Honestly, I'm really sick of the "kids' show" argument that I've seen for years. It's just a way to end a conversation and stop thinking. "Oh it's for kids, you're not the target audience so it doesn't matter what you say." Why bother even having online forums, then? Yet at the same time the fandom likes to extol what Japanese shows can get away with as opposed to American shows. Well, if that's the case, then maybe it's worth discussing when Japan falls short of the their previously established mark?

Well you're going "NO FUN IS ALLOWED ONLY MY VISION IS ALLOWED KAMEN RIDER IS NOT ALLOWED TO BE LIGHTHEARTED" you fucking edgelord. Again, there's nothing wrong with a lighthearted season, especially after two darker seasons

What is, to you, 'straight junk' could be someone else's favourite thing in the world. Your opinion is valid, yes...but no moreso than mine, or anyone else's. If something is popular...people like it for a reason. I can't stand Twilight, for instance, and I think Fifty Shades of Grey represents the BDSM community terribly. I think Amazons is 'okay', but far from a masterpiece.

Each one of them is hugely popular, and has reasons to be so, even if I disagree with them. I wasn't arguing that you were wrong...just that it is your opinion, and not a fact. The tone of your post very much seems to imply that your opinion that a Kamen Rider show 'needs' to be this, that, or the other...are some written-into-stone fact, and I was/am pointing out that...no they aren't. Amazons and Den-O look resemble, in many ways, Garo and Super Sentai more than they do Kamen Rider. But they're still Kamen Rider. There is virtually nothing shared between them - even the 'man with evil powers fighting for hope, peace and justice' backbone is heavily distorted between the two. Kamen Rider...can be anything it wants to be. It can be lighter than you want, and darker than I want...that doesn't make it 'a bad show' objectively, just a bad show to us, subjectively.

With regards to the stabbings, I apologize - I misremembered. The head of the cult was stabbed with a kitchen knife in the middle of the street (I believe in response to the stabbings).

But...are you serious? Why bother having online forums, really? Just because something is a kids' show (which Kamen Rider is and always has been) doesn't mean there aren't multiple things to discuss about it. There is no point not bringing it up because...Kamen Rider is a kids' show. It's bound by what a kids' show can be. It's primary purpose is to sell toys. Toei and Bandai consider Gaim a success not because of the show - it's ratings were absolutely terrible - but because the toyline was a smash-hit with its target audience. Ghost is just the same - the Ghost Eyecons were hugely popular, and the Rider Gashats of Ex-Aid broke new records.

Ignoring all of that means you're arguing with only half the story. Why doesn't Evolto activate the Evol Trigger this episode? Whatever answer the show gives us, the real reason is that the Evol Trigger in the show represents the Evol Trigger Toy...not released until June. Some shows - like Ex-Aid and Build are fantastic at writing around those limitations. Why doesn't Sento use the new Belt like Banjou? Because his Hazard Level - an established piece of lore - isn't high enough.
Others, like Ghost, are not so great at it. Where does Takeru get the power to achieve Mugen Soul? Um. He just does.

That's a reason for discussion right there.

Thank you for demonstrating your lack of reading comprehension.

The fact that such a "community" is even given a semblance of legitimacy is a problem in and of itself.

By the way, saying something is just an opinion is another thing I hate in the fandom. Yes, it's an opinion.... And? You need more substance than just saying "well that's your opinion, other people like/hate XYZ".

This is another problem: perception. Amazons is more like Garo than Kamen Rider? Huh? Amazons is basically a more developed version of Shin Kamen Rider with an Amazon Rider veneer. And Shin was essentially based on Ishinomori's original idea for what Kamen Rider was. How is Amazons not true to Rider? Your statement makes no sense. Besides, there's a lot of difference between Garo and Amazons even stylistically.

Maybe fans are just so used to modern Toei's way of making shows that they consider that the standard?

Well Ryotaro is a "metahuman" (immune to distortions in space-time), the Imajin were the antagonists (the Taros just defected), Yuuto's story is essentially tragic (even though it's glossed over for the sake of Taro antics; incidentally I found Yuuto and Deneb funnier overall than the Taros)... Den-O has the "typical" Rider material, Kobayashi just didn't develop the plot and lore well enough, and the focus was more on the comedy.

My point was that that statement is always used to silence people whenever they criticize the way a show is written too much for certain fans to take. Basically a "just shut up". Being a kids' show doesn't really invalidate most of the criticisms lobbed at Toei anyway. (And let's be frank, it's mostly Toei that's the guilty party here; Tsuburaya has been much better at striking a balance with Ultraman over the past two decades.)

I dunno, your "LIGHTHEARTED DOESN'T FIT KAMEN RIDER" came across real fucking easy. I genuinely do not get why you're making such a big deal. All you're doing ia crying at discussion of the possibility of a more lighthearted season. Maybe instead of throwing a hissyfit about how your opinion is absolutely correct and that Japan needs to take your opinion into account more than, y'know, the target audience, the kids at home watching the people in suits who go "Mummy! Daddy! I want that toy!".

Wow, I respect you even less now. Congratulations!

You must also remember that, as I said, Kamen Rider can't be too dark. Toei was hit with a huge backlash on Twitter after Kamen Rider Lazer was brutally killed on Christmas Day, after his toys had just come out. You had a whole nation of kids who may have just received a toy of their favourite character for Christmas...they excitedly watch to see what he does this week...and he dies.

Kamen Rider usually does death very well (Aoba from Build in particular)...but killing off the most developed member of the cast, just after his toys came out and on Christmas Day...is a justifiable cause for kids to be upset. The whole controversy is probably why he was revived, honestly.

The 'problem' isn't that Toei is pandering to its target audience, but that people like you mistakenly think that Toei should instead stay true to some arbitrary standards of some random guy on the internet. Shin Kamen Rider and Amazons are outliers by design - they aren't, and thankfully, never will be. The 'some fans' here refers to you. Amazons is based on Amazon, too, after all... And Amazon is the friendliest Kamen Rider save for, maybe, Gentaro. That was in the eighties, man. Kamen Rider hasn't changed...you're just clinging to the few times it has been as edgy as you want.

Shotaro Ishinomori is not "a random guy on the Internet". Stop acting like any criticism toward too much comedy translates to wanting every show to be a gorefest.

Wait a minute, I thought kids were supposed to be smarter than media producers gave them credit for. That's what the fandom always says when it comes to a show doing something they don't like. Now you do the reverse (kids don't care!) when you don't like what is being said. Make up your mind, please.

I like Kamen Rider for having a serious story and tone to it since that's how the original shows would do. The original Kamen Rider was about a man losing his humanity after becoming a cyborg while fighting against evil. That's one of the reasons what got me into Kamen Rider is the subtext in the stories. What I have been enjoying from Build so far is the general themes and tone of the show. Yeah it does have some goofy stuff in it, but I don't mind it time to time.

I don't mind fun campy stuff once and a while, but I have my limits on how lighthearted it can be.

You know that Toku is just more than Kamen Rider and Sentai right? Not to mention, there are Toku that don't have superheroes or any giant monsters in them too. I join this forum because I enjoy talking about Toku and it was the only decent one that was still active.

Honestly, the whole "Oh it's for kids, you're not the target audience so it doesn't matter what you say." is pretty much true. We are not kids in Japan watching these shows. So they are not going to care. It reminds me how people on Kanzenshuu where about Dragon Ball Super when Dragon Ball is for kids just as much as Kamen Rider is.

While we may not be the main demographic for these shows, I do agree that they should put effort in these shows and still appeal to a wilder audience. Something like Kamen Rider has substance to it while stuff like Teen Titans Go, Ben 10 and most American cartoons fallen under the bargain bin label in my opinion (Stuff that no one really cares about anyways).

Ishinomori isn't alive anymore and died before KR had developed to the point it is today so saying that means fuck all. For all we know he could have liked the idea of lighthearted Riders, but we don't know and never will know

Just saying, that's the target audience. Kids are smarter than people give them credit for, but at the end of the day, Toei only cares about toy sales and it's clearly working out for them. At the end of the day Kamen Rider is a toy commercial so your "NEED DARK LIGHT BAAAD" is already kinda ruined by the sheer toyetic nature that's always working. If Kamen Rider Build wasn't a Kamen Rider show, I could get a bunch of people to try it, but no they see a techno music sword or pirate train gun and back out.