I really don't hold this movie against them, if that's not too weird to say. This movie was a going away party for Ryotaro; it's really not the place for Kotaro and Teddy to have a huge arc. I liked where the movie left them? By the end of the movie, I was ready to give them a shot. That was not how I felt after they first showed up!

Yeah, Final Countdown is a weird one. It's transitory status is honestly what holds it back the most - had it commited to being purely "Ryotaro's final swansong", or "Den-O: The Next Generation", it could probably have made those work far better, but instead it's trying to ease you out of Ryotaro and into "The Imagin and their new friends", which, ya know, obviously worked since I've watched that Pretty Den-O film within the last few months, but it means you're hung up on the memories of what Den-O used to be, while trying to set up what it will be. In this case, waiting on Ryotaro to escape the ghost train and reunite with his friends.

That's not to say it's not fun - it's certainly better than Climax Deka - but idk, Ore Tanjou still wins out. I didn't hate Kotarou, it's pretty easy to guess where his arc goes as soon as he shows up, and New Den-O's suit is gorgeous, but he'll have better showings down the line. The Imagin are as funny as ever, the villains are Rider movie villains, it's a servicable film, but not an amazing one.

But still, you finished Den-O (The character)! Hope you enjoy the rest of Den-O (the franchise)!

It also does Yuuto dirty in a way that made that first half-hour really tough for me. A lot of Kotaro's debut is as the new Den-O, with a newly-painted Den-Liner, and he's accompanied by an Imagin who can't make him act politely, and that Imagin can become a weapon for the new Den-O, and the new Den-O won't stop trying to do everything himself, and that new Den-O also needs to tell people how strong he is... like, Kotaro's trying to replace Ryotaro and Yuuto in the same scenes, while Yuuto languishes in a hospital bed.

It feels like Kobayashi was working as hard as she could to make you hate Kotaro, and I don't know why she decided to do that? A little friction is fine; we're all going to be skeptical of our new Den-O when the old Den-O hasn't even left yet, so it's cool to play into that. But Kotaro's debut is aggressive (it's a bunch of sequences where the other characters watch Kotaro be a bad-ass) and dismissive (he constantly insults the show this movie is celebrating!), and it's such a weird hole to spend the rest of the movie digging Kotaro out of.

Not weird at all. But yes like I said earlier expect more of them in further post-Takeru Den-O shenanigans.

Final Countdown is an okay Den-O movie, but it reuses a lot of things that were seen before. The Edo Era, the tragically butchered Gaoh suit, Ryoutarou being out of action, multiple Den-Os, these are all things that were done in Ore Tanjou and I think that movie was more meaningful for how it focused on the bond between Ryoutarou and Momotaros and the value of memories.

This movie does touch on some of the important themes from the show, but they're mostly experienced through the perspective of Koutarou, who doesn't understand all the hype about the Den-O of the present day. I actually like Koutarou and Teddy and everything about New Den-O and their counting gimmick. But in a movie that was being advertised as the last Den-O movie, it seems like a weird time to be introducing these new characters instead of focusing on the ones we're already familiar with. Koutarou will get more chance to shine going forward with the Chou Den-O Series though so look forward to that. His name is of course a reference to kid Ryoutarou, who was nicknamed Koutarou in Ore Tanjou as distinction from adult Ryoutarou.

Shirou gets the accolade of coming up with the whole "replace living with dead" plan before Kamen Rider War, but honestly I think even that crazy movie made it sound more plausible. Here, it's basically just more classic Time Nonsense, compounded with Owner's ineffective reassurance that everything makes sense at the end. Shirou isn't even that interesting as a movie villain, compared to bad*sses like Gaoh and Negataros. His whole motivation is that his girlfriend died and while that is definitely sad, I don't think it's something that would necessarily push most people to inverting time. Kamen Rider Yuki is also the reason why the awesome Gaoh suit doesn't exist anymore, so I'm a little bitter about that.

Man, I'll say it: I think Shiro is my favorite Den-O movie villain to date?

I like him for the same reason I like Kai, in that his motivation seems to embody some of the uncertainty of the producers. Shiro's a meta villain to me. He's desperately trying to cling onto someone who's already gone, and he's willing to risk destroying his happy memories to do it. Putting a villain like that in the last Ryotaro story (for a while, at least), when we're maybe 1 to 2 Ryotaro stories too many already, feels more vital than some train warlord or weirdo crime drama.

Like, this movie feels real nervous about losing Ryotaro, and it feels real nervous about trying to tell more Den-O stories, and Shiro's the best villain to explore that anxiety.

So you aren't actually into Kotaro, someone that typically riles up shit by deeming themselves as better and telling everyone that they suck (I guess it's meant to be his comedy like usual of the riling up conflicts like this, or many occassions of this type of bickering is seen as in the franchise). Den-O being something that has Yuichi Nakamura, it's the reason why his previous character was reviled, Kyosuke in Hibiki (or its 2nd half in general), who behaves similarly to show when he appears against the current cast. I know you deem it as Sakurai stuff due to him, also being picked from the future by Owner to solve a problem in the present, and I thought there's an opposite to Sakurai here that Kotaro actually does show off his behavior and a little of his past, too many screentime to Sakurai's lack of? I've seen significantly worse behaviors in the franchise than what Kotaro displayed here to get riled up actually, though I'd think Kotaro's misery isn't highlighted enough from his past other than his name being made fun of, if it's the source of his grudge against Ryotaro, and his resolution seems to be too rushed, just suddenly changing after interacting with Ryotaro, that he's suddenly ok with him being named Kotaro. My other thought is that.. Ryotaro managed to score girls after all then if he can have a descendant.

D̶u̶n̶n̶o̶ ̶a̶b̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶l̶o̶v̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶u̶s̶,̶ ̶K̶o̶b̶a̶y̶a̶s̶h̶i̶'̶s̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶w̶h̶o̶ ̶h̶a̶t̶e̶s̶ ̶K̶R̶ ̶v̶a̶l̶u̶e̶s̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶t̶r̶i̶e̶s̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶d̶e̶c̶o̶n̶s̶t̶r̶u̶c̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶m̶,̶ ̶w̶h̶i̶c̶h̶ ̶p̶u̶t̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶o̶d̶d̶s̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶I̶n̶o̶u̶e̶.̶ And I feel true that Ryotaro doesn't appear much in the movie, except as Shiro's prisoner and that he's treated as the resolving force to solve the problem at the end. I guess if Ryotaro does have descendants, his next story should be about him growing out of his loser status that he can settle down with a girl at the end? He does become more confident and assertive in the main series, but it wasn't shown much about how's his state of life after that. But yeah this is what companies can do, for money, to milk out something that is supposed to be done. It's a fun read to associate Shiro with Sora's stuff with the real life state of Den-O, though yeah it's still subjective that the company does milk out Den-O because there will be those who can't get enough of it and keep coming back (I agree on letting what's done be done though, disapproving with company meddling with creative works), and that thing reminds me of something else Kobayashi has done before. For the plot being about keeping the dying beloved alive at the expense of others, the alternate solution being the villain dying with the loved ones together... indicator of Toei dying then (or... Kobayashi wishing for the end of Toei?!)?!

I̶n̶d̶e̶c̶i̶s̶i̶v̶e̶ ̶f̶k̶e̶r̶,̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶a̶ ̶K̶a̶i̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶p̶u̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶m̶ ̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶i̶r̶ ̶m̶i̶s̶e̶r̶y̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶a̶ ̶S̶h̶i̶r̶o̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶l̶o̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶m̶ ̶e̶n̶d̶l̶e̶s̶s̶l̶y̶?̶ There's a comedy that I liked from Kotaro's inclusion though that, Momo wants to insult back, by calling Teddy, Tuffy, but his hostile attempt got turned back against him that he's the one being seen as idiot instead due to others not following Momo by correcting him instead. a show of responding a taunt with another taunt being ineffective (especially against undeserving one in Teddy). Still baffled about the fact that despite Kohana can beat up the Taros Imagins regularly, they'd treat Kohana as something to be protected by other Taros, or the flip-flopping part that she hides or she stands up against enemy Imagins. If you summed up about Shiro and Sora, what'd be the relation for the elephant talk that happens several times in the Edo era though? The part of all the Den-O's Riders gathering (with Ryotaro as other final form Liner Form, so having final form with other base form is better than singular final form!), although a good use of the group's arsenals, however is done less creatively imo than the tag team on the finale of Den-O series, I'd prefer something be made the same rather than be different but less. I didn't think that Sieg, the "supposed star of this movie"'s Wing Form performance had good use of its abilities.

Sure, but for me it was the specific ways Kotaro was a jerk in the early going. He was specifically insulting the hero of Kamen Rider Den-O, the supporting cast of Kamen Rider Den-O, and the premise of the Kamen Rider Den-O series. I don't mind some random jerk showing up, but this was like attending someone's birthday party just to tell them that they suck and that birthdays are dumb and that no one likes them. Probably going to make that birthday party less fun for everyone!

My headcanon is that Ryotaro adopts a kid in the future. Considering we've never seen Ryotaro in any sort of romantic relationship at any point so far, I don't see him suddenly falling in love and/or hooking up with anyone? I think he just adopts some kid in the next few years.

Yeah, I mean, say what you will about Climax Deka, but at least that movie let Hana kick ass at the end. Would've been a nice moment in this one if they did some wirework with her or something.

Oh, and speaking of Climax Deka! For like, archival purposes, I guess, I'd just like to take a second to link to Die's post about that movie, which was over in the thread for Kiva, because that full title has a way of fooling people, apparently! (The posts leading up to that one are also highly recommended reading here.)

Not sure how much actual utility this post will have to anyone reading these threads, but I'd hate for us all to forget about what is arguably the most forgettable Den-O film out there!

ha ha, OH MAN. That night of watching Climax Deka! What a weird evening.

Thanks for posting those links! I'd not only forgotten to crosspost it here (I think I was going to, but then... didn't?), I'd largely forgotten what the hell I wrote. Rereading it a couple months later was a trip. I don't remember feeling any particular way about that write-up, but it's not too bad. The less I remember the process, the more I enjoy the recollections. Thanks for the fun reminder of a baffling film!