It's more of a Toshiki Inoue thing than an era thing, really. Inoue is the writer whose heroes consistently skip the first two to three monster attacks before doing anything. Agito and Kiva, in particular, are the shows where the monster radar seems to only go off occasionally.

Basically.

People are dying, and Wataru is worried about varnish. I'm not so unfair as to say they can't have a personal life at all, but BE a hero. SAVE someone instead of AVENGING them.

Agito 32-Well great to see Ryou back, and Mana's powers are really extreme to do that. I love the interactions between Uncle, Taichi, Hikawa, and Shouichi trying to talk to Mana that was fun. Love the emotions from Ozawa when she talked to Hikawa about how teenage girls are. More intriguing stuff but can't wait to see more with Ryou, Shouichi and Hikawa and everyone next episode.

Yeah, and it really sucks that he does.

I forgot Otoya did that...dang.

Yeah, Jirou is awesome.

That's a good point, but sometimes Riders don't show up until the monster has already done damage (as it takes time to get to wherever the monster is). I saw the Superman comparison, and it's, from a powers standpoint, apples and oranges. Back to the whole saving thing...if a Rider saves everyone, but then need to avenge the one person who died. I feel it would give that death more of an impact as well.

Agito 33-More plot twists, great to have a general idea what happened on the Akatsuki-Gou with Shouichi and this Unknown that looks like male version of Mezool from OOO. Great to see that Hikawa and Shouichi both finally learn that Ryou is Gills, and that Ryou learns that Shouichi is Agito. Looks like True Tsugami is actually trying to stop the mysterious guy controlling the Unknowns good to see that I can feel he is somewhat good. Also I love Hikawa's love of Agito and how passionate he is about it, it reminds me of Flash Thompson and how he loves Spider-Man. I can totally relate to Shouichi to just try and focus on something else when you're afraid of something. Can't wait for Burning Form next episode =)

But it isn't apples and oranges. They are both superhero shows 'Superhero Time!' yet I can count on one hand the times that Riders have been actual superheroes. They let people die, get mad people die and then hunt down the monster. What do they do while the monster is killing people? Drink milk? Play the piano? Go to school?

A big part of American Superhero comics is their real lives are constantly at risk, because they are always out there fighting crime. They don't just deal with the guy who can throw buildings, they protect people from muggers, or stop bank robberies or anything. Quite often they are forced to put real lives on hold, just to save people they've never even met before, they sacrifice selflessly for the greater good. HEROES.

We never see Rider's do these things. Maybe it adds more power to the punch when they are avenging, not saving, but the punch is lost when they are avenging EVERYONE because of their own lack of initiative. It's more a hero complex, than actual heroics.

This is a really interesting observation. I've been tossing it around in my head for a bit, and I think I've come up with a few good reasons why these differences occur...

This is more a thought exercise inspired by the above than a rebuttal or argument, so it's kind of scatter shot. Forgive any rambling or incoherence. :lol


PART ONE:

I don't think it's a controversial thing to say that a Rider series tends to document a flawed character who becomes a hero over the course of a 45-50 episode journey. A Rider usually starts out with a defining flaw that he learns to overcome over the course of a series, and very often, he isn't presented as a true, complete hero until the end. In a sense, we're watching a 25-hour super hero origin story.

Meanwhile, American superhero series tend to document the ongoing adventures of an established character who has proven his heroism countless times. He may still have flaws, but since he proved himself a "true hero" long ago, every one of his stories is designed to explore or reinforce his heroic status quo. The exception, of course, is an American super hero's origin story -- which tends to present him as green, inexperienced, and prone to mistakes, which is pretty similar to how a Kamen Rider is presented over the course of his series.

Since Rider series have a finite amount of time to tell their stories, and the major story is about how the rider overcomes his flaw to become a true hero, we don't see much of the actual super hero phase of his life. I predict that if a Kamen Rider series were to extend beyond its natural 45-50 episode lifespan, we'd see a lot more American-style super heroics from them.


PART TWO:

I'd also like to present the notion that, despite the Superhero Time branding, most Kamen Riders are Chosen Ones as opposed to superheroes.

Kamen Riders tend to be called upon by fate to embark upon a specific mission. That mission typically involves saving the world from a specific threat (SHOCKER, Fangires, GAIA Memories, Zodiarts, Mirror Monsters, Invess/Helheim, etc...). They're not as concerned with protecting the populace as they are with defeating their fated enemy. It's more of a macro view of heroism (defeat an enemy so the whole world is safe), as opposed to the micro-view enacted by Spider-Man and Batman (protect people on an individual level by solving crimes, fighting the mob, stopping muggers, etc).

To illustrate my point, a Kamen Rider is more like Buffy the Vampire Slayer than he is like Superman. Buffy goes on patrol and sacrifices a lot of her life, but only in regard to a specific threat: supernatural creatures. You don't see her going around stopping muggings or bank robberies because her calling is to defeat things like The Master and The First Evil. Similarly, you won't see Frodo tackle organized crime in The Shire -- because his fated enemy is Sauron.

Kamen Rider doesn't take on muggers or petty street crime because his goal is to defeat his Fated Enemy. He has bigger fish to fry, as it were.

Which brings me to...


PART THREE:

Do the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few?

Based on what I know of their culture, I don't think Japanese (in general, of course, not universally) are as interested in that popular philosophical question as Westerners are. It seems like, to the Japanese, the answer is a given: Yes, the needs of the many certainly outweigh the needs of the few. (See: wartime kamikaze tactics, et. al.)

Because of that cultural philosophy, I think Kamen Rider series treat collateral damage much more casually than Western super heroe stories do. Sure, a Rider is often torn up over his failure to help a given victim -- but as long as he defeats his fated enemy in the end, he's won. He's saved billions, so the death of that one (or 20, or 48, or 500) innocent bystander is cosmically balanced.


So yeah. I think this is an interesting topic. I hope any of what I wrote makes sense to anyone outside my head. Haha

A solid argument, but then it only makes me question, 'why do it like that?'. Is there any reason the WHOLE show needs to deal with their origins? I think it'd suit the genre so much better, to have them start as an experience hero and then flashback to how they became what they are.

This is the reason I will argue to the cows come home, that Haruto was a FANTASTIC superhero. He actively hunted down the Phantoms, he started at a point of experience and cared about the individual and attempted to save them. Yes they needed a new Phantom every week to adhere to the genre trappings, so it undermined the point a bit, but I'd rather another Haruto or another Kotaro or another bonified hero, than another Godai going on about smiles while hundreds of people committed suicide as he cooked a fucking curry.


The cultural differences are interesting, aren't they? This for me is the most problematic aspect. Because, one the one hand, it feels like Japanese culture is copping out but on another, America makes the battle of good and evil feel so hopeless, it's pointless to try.

I guess at least when Japan personifies evil as a single monster, and suggests that all the evil on the entire planet, an be destroyed in a single warehouse by defeating this single monster, it makes the battle of good evil feel that much more tangible, and defeating evil seems like a goal you can actually achieve.

But I think the American way of depicting the war as a sprawling mass, where one battle is just the part of many, may ultimately make the whole affair seem hopeless and unwinable, but the sense of scale also makes it that much more epic and grandiose.

I think the magic of Kamen Rider (and Super Sentai) is that each year the producers really are willing to try very new things. So I think an approach like you describe is possible. I know I'd be interested.

But as with any medium/genre, especially one that involves such a quick turnaround time as Rider, the cliches and tropes can be very alluring. They provide quick and easy narrative tricks to get you out of sticky writing situations -- something invaluable when you're on a tight deadline. Even good writers sometimes fall victim to the siren song of easy solutions to complex problems.

On top of that, I think a lot of the repetition/cliche propagation comes from the same people being hired to write these shows year after year. When we get fresh talent like Gen Urobuchi and Kazuki Nakashima spearheading a show, we get much more unique and interesting results. They're able to eschew the cliches (or freshen them up when they do use them) because they bring new perspectives to the franchise. They haven't been buried in the Toku trenches for a decade or more.

Definitely interesting. Lots to unpack there. Someone could write an amazing thesis about Japan and America by comparing their approaches to heroism.

Hey guys, I just signed up here, I've been a member of TFW for a long time but recently started watching Kamen Rider Gaim with my 4 kids and am completely in love with it. I actually watched a review from Vangelus for the arms change AC-01 and started curiously searching the show out to see how dumb it was, little did I know the vortex of awesome I was about to be swept up in. I've watched all 14? Episodes so far and was wondering if you guys could give me suggestions of what series I could watch in between new episodes of Gaim? I also wanted you guys to know my kids are running around the house right now pretending to be the characters of the show(I've been deemed Bravo because they wanna beat me up haha), and also how hard it is to explain the premise of this show without it sounding like the dumbest thing ever. I've approached three friends of mine about it and they just give me vacant stares and a dismissive "that sounds cool I guess". Anyway happy to be a part of this community! Thanks!