I like that your way of refuting my praise is to point out that you merely thought about it for an entire day before having a brilliant read on it.

...I honestly can't tell if you're really this humble, or if this is a gag, and I'm not sure which would make me madder.

So, the thing that I think makes the Tsukasa/Natsumi relationship land so well is that it's of a slightly different duration than we've seen in other Heisei shows. Most of the dynamics in the other shows are either long-term relationships where the main character has a warm relationship with the other character (Wataru/Shizuka, Ryotaro/Airi, Asumu/Hitomi), or relationships that only start in the first episode and are all prickly and weird (Wataru/Megumi, Ryotaro/Hana, Asumu/Akira). The Tsukasa/Natsumi relationship is right in the middle, since he's only been hanging around for a little while. It's new enough that she can lose her temper at his quirks, but established enough that they can have little nicknames and friendly banter.

The two of them... it's right in this sweet spot of Antagonism and Affection, you know? Good energy.

I didn't know that the Decade talk here would involve various different people, I thought it's all Zatyme. I guess this is called "TokuNation watches for a reason".

Oh, so the Onodera debut, although it got better at the end (even it's due to him learning more of heroism), wasn't really well-received here (I refer for Die here, of course Fish wouldn't resonate with this for obvious reasons). Actually I was kinda afraid that, especially with Kuuga bashing here (yes it was probably joking due to it contrasting with the reply to Enchilada645, but sorry it did gave me a wrong impression at first because bashing people for liking different stuff commonly happens in fandom and they mean it - hence the "unpopular opinion" start), Onodera will be hailed here as "the right way to handle Godai, give him an actual humanizing trait in relatable motive like impressing a girl instead of turning them into typical goody-two-shoes", I've seen that happened to someone like Superman here for example, but instead, the response here seems to be similar to Kotaro from Den-O? But otherwise yes, iirc, not being able to get Odagiri back was the reason that this is a brand new Kuuga story, as well as any other seasons who gets revisited. The video games also separate Godai and Onodera (both of their first names are Yusuke! in this thread I gotta refer to original Kuuga as Godai then) at times like Battride War.

For Onodera's motive, well, I think this is a mistake people commonly do, to only judge character's morals by motive alone, like if they don't fight for altruistic reasons then that character "isn't even a hero", but an even worse case of this (not done here, but an example) is when someone claims to have noble motivation despite doing bad things, they're hailed as "doubtful hero". It should be obvious that the former is still much better than the latter despite the motivation. Actions define the hero/villain archetype, and characterization determines the traditional/anti label. So it doesn't matter if he's abrasive or only does it for approval, he's still a hero if he regularly saves peoples lives by fighting monsters. Doing it for un-heroic reasons just makes him an anti-hero (of course morally grey hero wouldn't suit original Kuuga other than being its own entity).

Now I see what I'd expect more of Tsukasa here, he had several real dick moves, and he's appropriately called "Dickeido" by some of the fans, like him constantly pouring water at the coffee without stopping, and dismissing people he finds boring like Onodera's motive (I know Onodera deserves to be called out, but I think Tsukasa just offends there by condemning someone as being boring - he offends others just that it happens to be someone deserving). I'd wonder though what would Tsukasa react to someone more like Godai there, actually the likes of those are what people like audience going to bash as being boring more - they unwittingly making opposite comparison (to some audience) for Tsukasa here. And for Tsukasa's dick acts, I guess him being baffled for the Gamio's assault and wanting to save the world there shows his standards, that even a jerk like him would have limits, and that's required to assign him as the main hero (like many of secondary Riders being one of the main casts), albeit obviously anti-hero as what Androzani24 talked about him dirtying his hands to accomplish that. I'd think the mystery part, for Tsukasa knowing everything, it's down to the production team instead of Tsukasa "playing New Game+" to not actually make a scene of working out towards the mystery, just going instantly to the results of Tsukasa figuring everything out. Tsukasa learning Grongi language is probably an interesting method to implement, the reverse of monsters learning human language.

At first I thought they were actual siblings (like Die here, and was confused of Tsukasa claiming he fights for his crush) and it'd be combination of several Kuuga characters like being one/several of the Kuuga's cops (not only Ichijou) as long as Minori (Godai's little sister). As the female Ichijou, there'd be an opposite here from what I get as well, as in Kuuga, it was Godai who had an influence to others and drawing them in; the others being the more reluctant one, albeit briefly (Ichijou was only reluctant at first 3 episodes), but in Decade as seen in the dying scene, Yashiro was the one to draw in and push Onodera, the one who is more reluctant, as he almost retired when Yashiro is dying. The term "onore Decade" exists for a reason like the messing with original series, but at least in this scene, aside from that inspiring words scene can be hated due to it being treated as cheesy or that some want the series to not showcase preaching, regarding the talk about Onodera and heroism here, it at least shows that, despite Onodera contributes likely far more compared to the police force, doesn't mean that he's necessarily the most heroic for being the one who saves the world, it can be the others that are more heroic instead, but has less power/scientific intelligence to contribute as much as Onodera like Yashiro here.

True, Decade's high point would be the effects/action, I saw a footage before and it seems that Decade has stellar special effects, and like the discussion for episode 1 before. It's Decade's thing in general to have the previous Riders turn into their assists, not only Kuuga to Gouram here - as I've known in video games like Climax Heroes. But actually, the one that I hate the most for Onodera is actually not character but the Rider stuff, the fact that they watered down Kuuga power wise, like base Decade going toe to toe with Ultimate Kuuga before at the Hell Bros fight. I think as I said in Fish's Kuuga thread, Kuuga Ultimate form is my favorite implementation of the final form in the franchise, with the power upgrade being distinct from previous Kuuga's already devastating attack, only used against the final threat so it won't look like a fool like being jobbed, and knowing the escalating power, it's justified that Godai would only use basic attacks against Daguva in the final fight, but even then, basic attacks are still enough to put him down showing his power as well.

Though I wouldn't like Kuuga (as a Rider)'s handling here, I'd give more free pass to the threats as it wouldn't be exactly the same unlike Riders who are pseudo-return from the past series, it'd just mean that Decade's A.R Worlds have far less threat than the original series ones, with the final threat on the Kuuga A.R World being a "mere" Gamio, someone who doesn't seem to be nearly as threatening as Daguva (at least on his own), as he's put down only by 2 base Riders fighting him, Decade and Onodera Kuuga, even if Decade is an anniversary Rider. Though obviously Gamio would have the same goal of prolonging conflict among humans, and he even excuses his as human wanting conflicts - I̶'̶m̶ ̶k̶n̶i̶d̶a̶ ̶s̶c̶a̶r̶e̶d̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶c̶o̶m̶m̶u̶n̶i̶t̶i̶e̶s̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶t̶r̶y̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶"̶f̶o̶l̶l̶o̶w̶ ̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶e̶x̶a̶m̶p̶l̶e̶"̶ ̶t̶o̶o̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶i̶n̶c̶i̶t̶e̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶f̶l̶i̶c̶t̶s̶ ̶s̶o̶ ̶i̶t̶'̶l̶l̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶"̶f̶u̶n̶"̶,̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶n̶o̶ ̶s̶u̶p̶e̶r̶p̶o̶w̶e̶r̶s̶ ̶i̶r̶l̶ ̶(̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶G̶a̶m̶i̶o̶ ̶w̶o̶r̶k̶e̶d̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶t̶u̶r̶n̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶m̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶o̶ ̶G̶r̶o̶n̶g̶i̶s̶)̶. Other than Yashiro's final moment being favorite scene talk here, I also like that they didn't hold back of making Yashiro die here, I'm not usually talking or praising something like this - but for the stakes of the threat that can happen, though for others, it'd be still too easy solution that, Gamio died, all of what he left disappears too, erasing all of the impacts at once.

For the Tendou-Tsukasa common comparison (at least to audience, and later since ep. 26 Decade's main writer is Yonemura - I don't know if this'd count as spoiler though), I'd find it a probably missing opportunity to make the Hopper brothers like, probably bring up Tendou regarding Decade, like the resemblance to him or irrational jealousy or such. Their other use and their flaw being a downfall is neat though.

So you'd appreciate Haruto too. I mean he's not one of the more well-liked protagonist AFAIK, being frequently seen as boring, having "no personality", etc. where while those 2 are divisive but gains biggest praise I've seen (plz don't gloat over that while putting down others... ~). I do want Haruto to remind that being confident and stylish (or being 'competent') doesn't mean you have to possess unpleasant traits like being arrogant, or such; Haruto has similar moral compass as most of other main Riders while oozing confidence. And yes, I've read too that there are those who don't like Haruto and thinks to "fix" him you gotta make him smug and cocky like those 2, and though you'd prefer Onodera here, I'm afraid of Onodera being considered as a way to "fix Godai", which is similar to the "fix talk" for Haruto there.

Well, I'd think both Tsukasa and Tendou are the type who mostly focuses in only the saving people/the world part, so I'd not think "helping out" 100% fit to describe here. Like saving the world is just one out of a wide range of good morals out there, someone can do that yet fail in other moral deeds. I'd think the term helping out would cover many morally good trait and deeds in addition to “saving people”, like Die said the franchise is about "helping others psychologically", and KR has showcased many of that typically in most other main Riders, but CMIIW in this response I want to talk.

That'd be very surprising of someone so minor being appeared before as a character not even named iirc, both died too but in opposite way. And for Tsukasa's action, I guess breaking the law isn't necessarily questionable, but what Tsukasa did was a case of something questionable enough. For other things, it's something similar to Tendou as well before in Kabuto ep. 3, he too barged into a police station and assaulted several of them to do the job by taking the Worm of the weak (impersonating Yuki) which was held there.

I'd think that, the part of "you can tell they care about each other quite a bit", it's something that is expected from KR as well in any of the protagonist side casts, not just the dysfunctional part. The only few times that this is not a case is (cmiiw, iirc) when a villain is dragged into the protagonist side casts for common goal, not them being redeemed, like Kuroto in Ex-Aid.

I've talked about this before, but I'd think that Ryotaro/Hana doesn't fit into it being "all prickly" (they are an example of those starting at first episode though); Hana is all hostile and aggressive to the Taros Imagins, but for Ryotaro never showed any meanness towards him (to humans in general mostly too) even when guiding him, she sits with him, talks to him, and tries to help, without something like putting him down or such. For the other 2 example, it fits, with Megumi making condescending remarks that put down Wataru, though very briefly for Asumu/Akira (it's like Godai/Ichijou, Ichijou being hostile only at first 3 episode).

I don't think anybody can praise Kuuga like #1 (or rather, #2 and #4) fan Fish Sandwich can. You'll definitely be seeing a lot more contributors here as a dozen people have been meticulously selected for each arc.

Anyway, as one of many who started with Decade, Onodera Yuusuke was also my first Kuuga and to this day the one who I most associate with that suit. It helps that unlike most of the AU Riders, he's not just a guest in Tsukasa's show, he's a main character as well. The major thing he lacks compared to Godai is that thumbs up gesture and the friendly attitude that it symbolizes. Not everybody can be as selfless as Godai. But they don't have to be! I don't hold any resentment towards Yuusuke for not being exactly like Godai. Honestly, I think it's a great message to the kids that anybody can be Kuuga, as long as they have the will to fight for justice and freedom. That goes for other Riders as well.

So I previously brought up my currently Blade-less Heisei Rider Ranking in the Kiva thread and I thought maybe this would be a good opportunity to elaborate on that. Kuuga is ranked 18/19. It's not that I dislike it or anything like that, I generally enjoyed it, but something had to go there. It's a very classic take on the superhero concept and modernization of the Kamen Rider themes, but the conflict feels very raw between this ideal hero and these Unidentified Lifeforms whose entire motivation is simply to do evil stuff for entertainment. I think that most of the quality of this show, outside of the action, is instead the powerful effect that Godai's wisdom and empathy has on other people. It's thanks to Kuuga's foundation of heroism that the Heisei Rider Era was able to grow in to something bigger. It's the legend that started it all.

In (Onodera) Yuusuke's case, he's also the start of his own legend, which is an important part of Tsukasa's story. Similar to Godai, Yuusuke also has a positive influence on the people around him and that's not just a part of his personality but also a legacy of Yashiro who gave him the courage to be a hero. As others have pointed out, their relationship is like Godai and Ichijo, except here the Ichijo counterpart dies, unfortunately, and that motivates Yuusuke to be the kind of hero she wanted him to be. It's through Tsukasa's exposure to him, as a person who now has a clear future and something he wants to fight for, that maybe he can also get closer to figuring out his place in the world. Yuusuke may not be the same Kuuga as the one who started the legend of the Heisei Rider Era, but I think he's the right Yuusuke for this specific story.

I think this was maybe where I was coming from? This is Onodera's origin story, and it's mostly about him really becoming Kuuga. When he decides to fight to protect smiles, that's the moment he becomes a true hero, rather than just someone who enjoys fighting and/or is trying to impress a girl.

That's just a total Legend Rider thing, though, isn't it? A character gets a Final Form at the end of their series that is practically earth-shattering in its power, then six months later that form is barely sufficient to keep up with the newest Rider.

For this series, I think you can squint a little and see it as Onodera only recently being able to tap into all of Kuuga's power, and not really having the full force of any of them yet. Maybe now that he's embraced his role as Kuuga, he'll be able to harness more of that power?

Yeah, there's an easy calm to Godai that Onodera replaces with a kind of nervy exuberance, and I think that can come off a little more relatable? Godai felt almost unattainable, in his coolness, and Onodera is more normal in his flaws. It's hard to enjoy at first, if you're used to Godai, but Onodera's build-up to becoming Kuuga is nicely cathartic.

'Power Levels' are tenuous at best in the majority of Rider shows, and basically do not exist in crossover stuff. It's best to just not worry about it

It just occurred to me that I still forgot to mention one tiny little detail in these episodes that I loved, which is how they deliberately set up the numbers of the Grongi so that Decade ends up being Unidentified Lifeform #10, which is a super obvious bit to do, but that's exactly why I'm glad they didn't pass up that opportunity.

Also, while Tsukasa and Newsuke might be worlds apart in terms of their personalities, their actors Masahiro Inoue and Ryouta Murai have common ground in that they're both certified Rider nerds. I even dug up some random interview with Murai where he says he watched Kuuga through to prepare for his role and ended up plowing through the whole show in 3 days because he found it that interesting, which I naturally have to respect.

There was a really good episode of Shinkenger about something exactly like this, and it kind of blew my mind when I watched it to the point where I still think about it a ton. This doesn't really have anything to do with the topic of the thread, by the way; I just like thinking about Shinkenger.

(And for the record, just that "New Game+" comment alone was at least as clever as anything I said about those episodes.)

I'm super happy to see an Onodera fan club going in this thread, by the way? I always like to think that every character or show or whatever is somebody's favorite, so it genuinely warms my heart to see affection for a character I've always had the (mistaken?) impression was a little unpopular?

Oh! And here's a fun story! I know Die has poked fun at me in the past for always calling Yuusuke "Yuusuke" instead of Godai, and the reason I started doing that was actually specifically because I remember always seeing people differentiate the two Kuugas as above, which always felt backwards to me, because Yuusuke's name was Yuusuke well before Newsuke's was. It kind of became about more than that over time for me, though, and it was pretty vindicating to do all that Kuuga research and find out both Takatera and Arakawa call him Yuusuke too.

A very nice touch! There are times where I wonder if the people making Decade really get the shows they're paying homage to, but doing that with the Grongi numbers is a cute detail.

Well I've noticed that Yuusuke is a little unpopular, so we're probably in the minority of people who like him. It makes sense that this thread would bring in all his fans who love to have the opportunity to talk about how great and underrated he is, the same way that the Hibiki thread revealed that everybody really loves the Oonamazu arc.

I guess I just call Godai Godai for the same reason I call Tendo, Kusaka and Terui by their surnames, since that's how they're typically addressed by other characters. But I can definitely respect that you call him Yuusuke due to that personal connection you feel with him, since I also make exceptions like that for certain characters who I connect with, like Ryuuga who everybody else calls Banjyou. He's always going to be Ryuuga to me.

Hibiki and his AU counterpart on the other hand.... How do we even distinguish them by name?

You mean Hibiki and Depressed Sokichi Banba? :p

Yeah, I guess that's one way to do it. :lol