If anyone's not sure here, just gonna lay out a few major reasons why the letter is fake:-



- 'Kamen Rider' and 'Super Sentai' go uncapitalised; for copyrighted items concerned in C&Ds like this they do have to be formatted with capitalisation

- The address of the C&D is linked to a building Toei uses for meetings -- not one of their HQs, which would be much more standard for letters like these

- Most damning of all though, C&Ds are sent by lawyers, not the companies themselves. If this was legitimate it would not be Toei up front sending this and threatening legal action, that needs to go through a lawyer; and any C&Ds you see from Toei in the past will be from a lawyer.


I'm no legal expert, but once you see these flaws the letter looks more and more clearly illegitimate the more you look at it despite being scary at first. TV-Nihon has taken down (most of) their subs for now because even though it does look fake, the legal consequences are very serious so they're doing this just to be safe. I imagine things will be back to normal with all their torrents restored once this is all resolved. Either way, regardless of how much Shirakura nods and winks towards not caring about how we watch Toku in the west; it's generally not a good idea to tweet at officials about services you use for pirating media. This case is almost definitely fake, but it's a pretty good illustration and reminder of how bad things could get for real.

Stupid question: has Shirakura ever said anything officially about not caring, or is it just the vibe he gives off?

Referring to this

https://i.imgur.com/6Ig4nhs.png

He made a post on his twitter recently like "We're not supposed to know how you watch shows abroad lol", so like... at least among production crew, it's a pretty open secret. Which isn't surprising, it doesn't take much to figure it out.

But there's a difference between a subtle wink and a nod, and just directly asking "Hey why is our piracy site at this address down please fix?" Like, as easily as we forget it, and as annoying may be, fansubs are still a legally precarious grey area (or really a black area that isn't worth Toei's time) and only grows more so as people get the US distribution they've clamoured for. But the grand total is 4 series out of many, and playing silly games on twitter is only going to win silly prizes for the entire community.

I’m still going to suggest y’all start downloading the subs you want because with toei releasing official subs we may lose access to things that weren’t in the series proper and even shows that are currently not subbed officially.

I could be wrong, but I worry I guess.

Toei's YT channel at least seems to care marginally more about a range of markets whereas Shout Factory seems to intend to stay pretty much US-only, sorry, so there is that.

I did that once the horrible official Faiz release went up and I decided I'd like to have everything I never watched backed up just in case...

And what do you know, Over-Time's now come out and said they've talked with multiple other subbing groups and now believe it is real and will also be stopping posting their subs.

(Although they're apparently going to actually quietly continue and just not advertise it on their blog.)

Basically, no, it's not really a legal threat as has been thoroughly explained. But they do really believe now they're actually from Toei and basically saying "party's over, stop before it does become legal."

Man this sucks. I’m glad I went down the rabbit hole last week and pretty much downloaded all Heisei rider stuff. I have to wonder how this blows back on Team Rider and their push for more domestic releases. I can’t imagine a lot of people buying the last bit of Saber merch without having a way, legit or not, to watch the show.

Sure am glad Shout has stopped their sentai releases, TokuTV's releases are trash, and Crunchyroll has given up on simulcasting toku.
Supporting the official release has never been easier /s

Got a real goddamn headache right now. Absolutely stupid decision of Toei on all counts.

I'm hoping we aren't on the precipice of a "Toku Subs Dark Age" in which everything about those things many of us are even on this site to begin with become infinitesimally precarious and almost impossible to even watch, much less comment on!

I don't believe asking someone like Shirakura on Twitter is a bright move, but the fact that he knows of our concerns should be a factor as it shows that even the people involved know how stupid the situation with international distribution is!

Ultraman seems to have the best ride of late given its almost unparalleled success in Western Distribution. Seriously, it's easier to watch Ultraman than Godzilla, and the latter of the two is far more recognizable by name alone in the States!

What I really want to see is more corporation between everyone involved. Hasbro, SHOUT!, Team Rider, Mill Creek, Toei, and Tsuburaya! I know that's realistically unfeasible cause of the financial and corporate competition between Toei and Tsuburaya, but it's honestly what's needed if everyone is to survive and go home satisfied.

Think of this way, Toei and Tsuburaya made peace briefly to produce the Ultraman and Kamen Rider crossover and that was apparently so popular that it had the added benefit of inspiring the idea of J being the "Jumbo Rider" (so I've heard). Basically, it was a cooperative collaboration which (potentially) inspired one more than the other. You could also use the Comics Code Authority as inspiration cause it was also a cooperative collaboration implemented in order to survive, and in some cases, thrive.

When international travel restrictions let up as cases go down, I want representatives from the aforementioned "Big Six" to get in a room and sit the hell down and hammer out some kind of agreement to make sure that everyone gets a slice of pie here and there and everywhere!

Again, it's not all that realistic. Then again, are any of us really living in "realistic times" anymore? The past year changed the global dynamic in ways none could foresee. I'm hoping someone somewhere is paying attention to our chatter and taking a hint.

WE WANT RIDER KICKS!!! WE WANT SENTAI ROBOS!!! WE WANT ULTRA SERIES KAIJU!!!

Seems like subs are not kill yet. Just going under, like ye old times. Toei's already known fansubs exists with stuff like that "We're not supposed to know how you watch these shows abroad" and the other one with "Practically, a western audience doesn't exist." ShiraP knows for sure, it's not hard, especially with probably places like NicoNico having eng-subbed videos as well being put up by the people there.

Basically, subs are going under. Toei probably just doesn't want so much pirated content floating around and publicly distributed. Does it hurt their brand? No, but I imagine there being so much pirated content in social media is a bad look.

I'm not saying this is the sole reason, but a contributor, when you have people go into direct contact with Toei staff, like ShiraP, you're effectively poking at the hornet's nest. Lawyers are expensive, and fansub groups are a black area that Toei probably doesn't have the time or care enough to completely care for. Just put up a threat-sounding letter telling them to keep it on the down low and hopefully leave it at that.

Basically, "Sorry, I'm sealing your hardsubs."

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rxvt0GjyA20/maxresdefault.jpg

Quite the bright imagination you have there. I doubt it, especially since TsuPro has nothing to do with what's going on.

Well, part of it was just that Toei seemed willing to play ball, and most fansubs played along. They'd make playful comments about how Westerners have even seen these shows and the like, meanwhile, whenever Shout or whomever would release official subs, most fansubs would take down their subs of said show to support the official release.

It's been a strong co-existence for such a harsh 180 to happen.

We were warned! We were well warned!

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/E1Y7r7kXE...jpg&name=small

What gets me about this is that Toei endorses stuff like TeamKamenRider, supports their contests and events, goes out of their way to collaborate with actors for prizes and gifts for lucky fans, acknowledge that western fans exist...

...but then instead of doing what Tsuburaya have been doing and capitalizing on that fanbase by ensuring a way for them to easily access your content legally, which would help sales more, and then try and phase out the fansub side as much as they can attempt, they just go straight for the jugular with no acceptable alternatives present.

In an effort to keep things positive, this could also be seen as one of many of Toei's early steps to start entering more markets.

Like if they are planning to put Kamen Rider on more streaming platforms/blu-rays, they will want the subs to be phased out. And any significant streaming platform would ask that Toei do something (a C&D being the bare minimum) about the fansubs in order to not compete with streams.

I am concerned about people who aren't in the US who want to watch Toei Tokusatsu. I'm not sure how to help them

Also I'm going to be rushing around downloading subs, if anyone has full batches for shows shoot em by me.

Torrenting sites and what not. Those aren't dead yet. Subs are just going under.

"Early" is generous at most.. any actual plans to release more sounds like a YEAR out at minimum. Both going for what was said or implied by the shout and Team Rider people during streams and those connected to them.

This is absurdly shortsighted then. Just going to shoot themselves in the foot and a lot of people will move on.

I've been half out the door as it is, and now...

Yeah, sorry, but... in its current state the western distribution of Kamen Rider is the sort of service so phenomenally limited that it drives people to pirate in the first place.

Tokushoutsu is only offering 2 seasons a year if that, there's no sign of a simulcast, no other global projects, the whole 2-episodes-of-each-series thing on the youtube channel is a joke, and apparently movies are a very difficult thing to get the rights to. Compare to Ultraman - and I'm sorry if you think it's unfair, but I don't really care, given the point we're at - who managed to put out a ridiculous amount of the franchise within a year through Mill Creek which are very comprehensive including movies and specials, simulcasted each new show starting last year, has multiple global projects, and oh yeah, never pulled this crap and fansubs decided on their own initiative to shut down to support official releases. It's just completely night and day. Unless Toei ramps their efforts up to 11 out of nowhere, right now what they're doing is stupidity in the extreme and alienating their entire western fanbase.

Like, man, I'm just thinking about how one of the Team Rider guys is a huge Gaim fanboy, and they've sort of made a marketing gimmick out of that with him professing the season as the best thing made since sliced bread and doing humorous takeovers of any Gaim merch they're repping; and not only is there no official Gaim release but they're now trying their hardest to make Gaim impossible to watch in any capacity. What the hell is this approach, exactly?

Honestly, if the C&D is true, then Rider/Sentai taking off further in the states will be as dead as Gundam was in the early 2000's and we're just now getting to a point where that's coming back stateside. I choose to blame the Team Rider guys. Was losing fansubs worth being able to buy merch from Amazon US when you could buy the same stuff from HLJ or any other Japanese retailer?

What subs should I prioritize first?

Sentai. Any given Rider show at least has a chance of getting official subs, Sentai doesn't

Toei really handled this badly by not having any sort of official alternative in place. They could have achieved the same outcome by investing in more global releases.

Now Overtime has taken their subs down because of the letter.

This is a shitstorm move by toei with no other way to watch rider official they take away our only way to support theirs shows.

Sentai has been going down hill for the past few years and I kinda burn out on it. So I don't really feel much about sentai since it already feels like a dying brand.

Now Rider on the other hand upsetting to me I enjoy rider so much and hear they not releasing any official dvd for their show for us fans. This is so mess up on so many levels if we don't get a way to watch rider from toei I hope their shows goes BANKRUPTED. Why cause they deserve it for telling us fans f u and I getting tired of the shit they been pulling for the past few months, like with the toy scans, magazine scans, and copyright the live steams.

This should also hunt toy sales in the end cause fans outside of Japan support the toy line as well and with no subs for us fans means less sales for rider toys that should teach them.

As far as I'm concerned, the subs aren't dead or taken away. They're just gonna be less visible now. And I'm pretty sure sales from west aren't as big as one would think, SEA is pretty much their secondary audience. Just calm down.

you are a tad delusional and don't really know what you're talking about.
they aren't taking anything away from us, they basically said they're willing to look the other way as long as it isn't blatantly advertised by fansub websites.
it means jack shit. most people who care about watching kamen rider at its best are getting it off nyaa anyways, whether they like it or not. literally all this affects is people who depend on fansub websites for updates on when new episodes are subbed.
as previously stated, calm the fuck down, everyone. this news has no effect on you if you care about watching kamen rider in its best quality anyways. fansub websites don't really serve much of a purpose aside from advertising the show - in which case fans like us don't need that at all, anyways.

you could say I'm a tad biased because I've personally NEVER relied on a fansub website to notify me that a new episode is out and subtitled, but I am 1000% sure I am not even close to the only one who has solely relied on nyaa.

people have been pirating anime this way for god knows how long and toei literally cannot deal with it. relax. nothing has changed unless for whatever reason, you depend on fansub websites to tell you that a new episode has been released and subbed.

the only way this could be considered a "shitstorm move" by anyone is if you decide to be a fucking drama queen.

Did I miss something? I thought people were pretty sure the letter was fake? Did Toei make an official comment?

in case you haven't noticed or aren't in any discord servers, it's real.

as previously stated, even in the event that there's a 1% chance it's fake, taking the risk is fucking stupid.

Everyone put on your hacker shades and cyberpunk hoodies, because its gonna feel even more like that now as we watch these Japanese children's shows.

Though personally speaking, while I'm always pleased whenever Tsuburaya puts out more official releases, I don't care (or maybe I'm just not impressed by...) that much about Toei's similar Rider releases in the slightest, so I guess its gonna be same old same old for me, I suppose... It still sucks a lot that these sub groups had to deal with this though.

OP is updated with an announcement reflecting the current situation.

I am sad to see it is more serious than originally thought, especially for Sentai as for which Power Rangers is really not the same thing, it's not quite the same as the anime subs vs dubs argument! :(

Although Toei shouldn't have done that I do think to be fair western governments or TV channels are also partly at fault for historically not showing more interest in dubbing or subbing these shows, I mean I've always had the impression that dubs were more for a general audience and that will lead people who are interested on to the subtitles, or in my mind subs and dubs are not really competing, so like it or not toku dubs are(or at least were) probably more likely to get a broader audience for these things than subtitles. I just wish English-speaking countries had had more things like the UK should have at least dubbed Bioman when France and it seems everyone else did as opposed to an adaptation which yes I might occasionally even prefer on a case-by-case basis but just on principle even if it's close to the original it's just not the same show anymore!

Admittedly I haven’t watched toku for a long time. Reason being the lack of legal availability. Never torrented and relied heavily on Facebook and KissAsian. Once I joined Crunchyroll, I mostly stopped using KissAnime―and eventually my overall usage of the Kiss sites became non-existent. My love for toku has never faded though, and don’t think it ever will. I’ll still love Rider, Sentai, et cetera even if I never get to watch it again.

It’s thanks to toku that I discovered TokuNation, and it’s thanks to TokuNation that I got to meet/ talk to all of you<3

The real subtitles were The Friends We Made Along The Way. I love it! Great attitude to have about this situation.

I'm looking forward of going back to the days of reading like one geocities site updated by a English speaking person in Japan typing out summaries of each new episode of a show on a weekly basis.

I'm absolutely up for reading that!!

Oh sure, snub the guy who’s review style is nothing but summaries.

(Though I would have some trouble with specific translations. I’ve got a video for Hero Mama League when I get round to covering it, but no subtitles. Having to guess what’s going on from my own weak Japanese and contextual clues is no fun, let me tell you.)

Once upon a time, I would have watched anything with my Nao-chan in regardless of if it had subs or not. I admire your commitment!

For context though, it was sites like Jillun's and Rovang's that I was thinking of, as these were instrumental for me when I first became fascinated with sentai circa Gingaman.