I remember all the debat around Tokyuger when it started, how childish it looked, etc, and you know what? By the end of the show, I was in love. Godspeed, you rainbow train kids. Godspeed.

So I can answer this one!
Romance is a tricky topic, and there are a lot of pitfalls in it. Sometimes it feels like it's only included because, well, there has to be a romance, otherwise people won't like it. This can include characters falling for each other for little reason, or in too fast a time, or just because execs believe 'Well, the man and woman have to end up together' - and I'm using that phrasing purely because Queer stories are often written more with the romance in mind, and thus it makes more sense for those to be romance heavy. From another angle, though, look at fanfiction, which has garnered a reputation (lessened in recent years, mind) of just being gay shipping and nothing else, even for characters who don't have that dynamic on screen/page/film. Add to that a common plot in any long-running thing of a "Will they or won't they" romance, which can often progress and regress at the whims of scheduling and renewal, and not for emotional reasons, and people can be burnt out on badly written romances.

But that's just bad romances, right? Well, sometimes it can feel like that's the only choice of relationship on offer. Friendships exist, yes, but they're subservient to the romance. And it erases a large chunk of the prospective relationships available in a person's life in favour of one that's raised above all others in media. Romance is an important factor in people's lives, true, but media often presents it as the only thing that matters. You can save the world, sure, but did you get the girl? Kamen Rider isn't immune to this - think about the Build V-Cins, where suddenly all the main cast outside of Sento are teased with potential women partners. None of this is to say romance is inherently bad, but it often comes across as incredibly prominent in everything, to the point where a series about romance, one with debatable realness (I've not seen beyond the first 10 eps of Kiva, I have no personal stake) can be offputting.

And, just as one final comment, not everyone does feel romance. People are chronically single, unlucky in love, going through a tough time, or just don't feel that kind of attraction. That's up to them personally as to why they might not like the more romantic side of things.

EDIT - I see you've mentioned genre fiction in yours, so that means I can express a thought I wasn't sure about! Genre fiction can come as an escape from many of the trappings of what I wrote above - "Will they or won't they" is a very soap opera genre, and there's a lot more emphasis in some genre stories on the world around the characters rather than the characters themselves. Thus, some people don't like romance stories in those genres because they see 'romance' as a genre in and of itself, like a romcom, and thus it makes the genre fic less unique for being there. I don't entirely agree with that, exploring romance in fantasy and sci-fi settings obviously has its place, but some people would rather avoid the cliches of "fighting for love" entirely and watch for the more fantastical elements.

AkibaSilver already made some good points about it, but I'll add my own thoughts here:

I can't speak for everyone that feels this way obviously, but for me it comes down to a few things. I should probably just get this out of the way first, on a personal level I have no interest in romance and am probably the least thirsty person you'll ever see. So, I suppose due to my lack of personal connection and interest, sticking characters in a romantic subplot is just about the least interesting thing imaginable to me. On a personal experince level, I also haven't encountered co-workers falling for each other very often, so it isn't something that feels realistic either. I like human drama a lot in tokusatsu, you know, characters having a good old existential crisis, fighting, becoming friends or enemies, family drama, etc. Love that stuff, so if a romance is used in a way that complements the rest of the drama and narrative I can like it. I watched Timeranger recently, and actually really enjoyed the romance in that show and how it tied into the overarching theme of living in the present even if things cannot last forever, perhaps enhanced further by the bittersweet nature of it. On a note that AkibaSilver brought up, I also just get *real* tired of seeing romance in almost every piece of media. I think because romance is so widespread, tokusatsu tends to attract people who don't like it, since it is generally light on it compared to other genres, so that might account for the disproportionate amount of people who don't like it you encounter in the community. I hope this makes sense, it is a little hard to put into words.

Anyways, TLDR romance is really prolific and not for everyone, especially when it feels like it comes at the expense of other character relationships and plot beats. Also, guess who JUST realized the reason she doesn't like V-Cinemas is the frequent use of romance plots? I'm sure you'll never guess. :lol

Thanks for being so candid, y'all. This gives me a lot of context that I didn't quite have. It's especially interesting to realize that many of the romance-averse maybe don't feel romantic inclinations at all and find these types of stories boring and unrelatable. And honestly, as a gay dude, I can relate to a lot of the reasons why you wouldn't be thrilled to see yet another (in my case, heteronormative) romance dominate the plot of something you're watching.

On top of that, I also feel annoyed when I'm subjected to bad romantic plots that lack intent and are just there by executive mandate or out of creative laziness -- though, I credit that to bad writing/producing/directing more than I do to the inherent badness of romance as a plot device, and I'd feel the same way about a badly done friendship or a toothless villain or a disappointing climax or badly done anything.

You two definitely don't fall into this category, but the group of anti-romance people that really tick me off are the ones (usually dudes) who balk at any hint of romance due to their indoctrination into a toxically masculine culture that forces them to shut off any vulnerability and automatically associate romance with "vile" femininity. I have lumped people unfairly into this category in the past, so it's nice to know that there are people with more nuanced and humane reasons for their aversion to romance.

Circling back to Jetman, I think the reason that romance plot works for me is that it is specifically not a healthy one, and I think that's by design. The love triangle in Jetman exposes as many (if not more) negative traits in the characters as it does heroic and redemptive ones. Love is responsible for characters doing as many reprehensible things as noble things. It drives people to the brink of madness more often than it leads them to happiness. Seen through that perspective, I find Jetman's emphasis on toxic romance endlessly fascinating... in particular, because all of them resolve in the least stable and healthy ways imaginable. And for this to be the first major romantic arc in Sentai -- one so clearly destructive for all parties involved -- is ballsy as fuck, and I have no idea how Inoue got away with it on a show for eight-year-olds in 1991.

All Ranger shows are unable to be viewed on Toei Toku World Channel due to licence between Hasbro and Shout Factory.

Old news or no this bites.

No problem, I'm glad people on Tokunation are able to talk about their opinions like civilized human beings. Very refreshing compared to many other parts of the internet!

On that note, this was quite a revelation for me, because this is basically exactly how I feel about Faiz, just replace self-destructive romance with self-destructive lack of communication. Faiz fascinated me with how things spiraled out of control and felt like it had something to say about humans and how they struggle to convey their thoughts to others. I had a hard time reading Jetman as satirical on the other hand, too much of it came across as genuinely earnest, which definitely impacted my enjoyment a lot. I can't really blame anyone for being unsure whether to take a given aspect of an Inoue show at face value or not, he often walks a thin line between the two and it's hard to say what his actual intentions are 90% of the time.

Anyways, I'll stop rambling, glad people are having fun. Hopefully no one else watching the show ends up like me and laughs their butt off when Gai dies on a park bench. Absolutely hilarious, no one can convince me this wasn't a stroke of dark comedic genius.

Jetman 33-35:

I hate to be hard on a Kenichi Araki episode at this point, but 33 didn't do a whole lot for me, taken as a whole. The starring monster is still amazing, mind you. Adhesive Cockroach is a delight to watch confound the heroes. There's a whole bit in there where Maria encourages him to enact revenge on humanity on behalf of all the countless cockroaches that have been needlessly slaughtered at the cruel, uncaring hands of our foolish species, and like, right away, I'm way into that. I also love watching this guy in action, with his movements sped up through camera trickery to (very successfully!) convey the creepy feeling of an insect scurrying about the place. And then the most genius part of all of this is how he keeps surviving finishing moves, living up to the stubborn reputation of his motif. This serves a practical purpose in that it justifies the team needing yet another new toy to take him down, but where the episode starts to go wrong is in how that's just about the only thing tying the monster plot into the more personal story that's truly at the core of this one. Which is a bummer, because the way the monsters drive Araki's plots is usually a point of praise from me, but unless I'm maybe missing something thematic, I'm just not seeing that this time. This isn't necessarily a deal-breaker, as long as both sides of the episode are interesting in their own right, but unfortunately, the more human drama here never really clicked with me. It's a toku plot you see all over the place, especially in older shows: a child begrudges a parent for not being around, and eventually comes to understand they had Reasons, or whatever. Okay, that's maybe a little too dismissive, but while this particular instance doesn't fall *completely* into the trap of basically telling the kids at home they just need to suck it up, it still lacks enough nuance to rise above the somewhat trite subject matter in my eyes.

34 though, that one was my jam! Arakawa is back, and as crazy as ever, writing a story that opens with Ryuu betraying his entire team to cut a deal with the Vyram. And yeah, I know there's no way, and you probably know there's no way, but what I think makes this one so great is that, from the perspective of like a seven year old kid without extensive experience with how fiction works, this would be pretty much the single most mind-blowing episode of anything ever. It's just a totally full throttle action thriller right out of the gate, with Ryuu shaking off the rest of the team in an epic vehicle chase scene, and then showing up to negotiate with Grey while rocking a sick new bad boy outfit to complete his turn to the dark side. He's talking about forking over Tetra Boy in exchange for Rie, the team are listening in from the shadows, unable to believe this shocking turn of events, and when Ryuu finally makes the exchange, Grey double-crosses him on the spot and guns Ryuu down right then and there. I was totally floored by the raw intensity of all this, and it's only the first half of the episode. It doesn't even stop being crazy once you get to the back half where the pieces of this mystery start falling into place. The episode is also an excuse to showcase the twisted and surreal layout of the Vyram base by way of a heroic infiltration, and while it's hard to top where the episode started, it never really lets up on the tension to the very end. Even the sketchy explanation for what exactly was going on when Ryuu seemingly got shot to death fits the tone of the episode so well it's mostly just charming. This episode totally rules.

35 provides a swift redemption for Araki though, because I was also pretty into this one. It addresses my chief complaint about the last one by bridging the monster attacks and the human drama with something of a focus on nature. You've got a sickly girl in the hospital who's friends with a dove, and said dove is very upset about all the pollution going on, especially that caused by a certain Poison Gas Rat. So you've got the Vyram with their latest scheme to rub humanity's failings in our faces, making a monster out of illegally dumped toxic waste, and you've got a dove who became friends with someone who nursed him back to health after industrial smog and whatnot had him too sick to even fly. It's a clear through line for the story, and a lot of fun elements spring out of that pretty naturally. Poison Gas Rat himself looks like a D-list Ninja Turtles villain (this is a compliment), and it's easy to hate a bad guy that's going around gassing people. This is also an episode where Radiguet is defeated by a flock of birds, which probably sounds pathetic, but trust me, these are some tough birds. It's hard to not get excited when nature itself is rising up against the main villain. It's also a pretty nice episode for Ako, not because it expands on her character or anything, but simply in how she hangs out with the girl the whole time. The whole episode is a super uplifting narrative about a child finding the courage to stand up to her own problems through seeing the courage of others, and I think it capitalizes nicely on that very direct parallel between her and why the kids watching are probably attracted to superheroes to begin with. Ako is the young one who isn't constantly talking about oddly mature romantic dilemmas, so if you're a little kid, then, yeah absolutely, she's gonna be the one you'd wanna hang out with. She'll even let you shoot the lasers in the giant robot! There's a lot of genuine heart to this episode, and that makes it a very satisfying watch.

And I'm glad to be enjoying Jetman the way I am! There's absolutely a lot about the way Inoue is structuring these stories that I dig, for sure. I didn't really mention this specifically when I was talking about the episodes, but when I realized the plot with Rie was being moved forward because the plot with Kaori and Gai was moving in a direction that would leave Ryuu in need of a new source of drama, I was impressed how quickly Inoue solved that problem. As in, he did it before it had time to become a problem.

Also:

Thank you for saying that second part for me so I didn't have to. :p

Me, having been stalled out for weeks on Kiramager, watching Fish marathon Jetman in like 2 weeks

https://en.meming.world/images/en/6/...This_Power.jpg

Ah yes, episode 35, the one where, as one person put it “Radiguet lost to a f*cking bird”.

And no joke, I thought that episode 34 was an Inoue episode at first, because he employed the same kind of plot with Pink Turbo, FivePink and OhYellow. But then again, the fact it’s the boy doing the fake betrayal should’ve been the tip off.

Oh man, a lot of exciting Inoue and romance talk here. I definitely want to share my opinions on this!

Who among the remaining Five Venoms do you think has the coveted Madoku Ringi? I thought it was cool how they make it seem like one of them is about to use it, but then their Ringi turns out to be something else instead, making it a constant mystery to find out who actually has it. You're almost at the exciting climax for this arc so keep watching!

I feel like I used to be a little unfair to Kiva, even as someone who never actually disliked it. On a rewatch, I picked up on a lot of cool details that I missed before and the stuff I remember disliking wasn't even that bad. So now I think it's an awesome show! Maybe it's like that for other people as well. Maybe people just need to rewatch it to see if they still feel the same way.

True. Even if the most terrible show ever makes at least one person happy, its existence is completely justified!

I can respect that. I think Jetman is a great romance story, but if romance ain't your thing, then it makes sense that the show wouldn't appeal to you. You've totally spelled out what the deal with Inoue is and why fans are so divided about him. He's a man who cares about character interaction and the stories he writes are in service to that, instead of the other way around. He loves to write comedy, drama, romance and tragedy while the Tokusatsu genre is merely a cool backdrop for that. As a result, he usually writes a lot of stuff that people can deem controversial and yeah, I guess some people really do just want a more clear-cut conflict between good and evil, less interpersonal stuff. Morally complicated characters like Gai and Kusaka can be frustrating, but I have to praise Inoue for showing that people aren't always what they appear to be and that there's usually something deeper than that. Humans are great and all, but they're problematic and messed up in a lot of places and I think it's good to confront those problems and strive to become better.

Thanks for saying you enjoyed Faiz, BTW. We can agree on that!

Personally, I still hate ToQGer. Not for the aesthetics or even ToQ-Oh's erotic attack, but for how terrible the story and most of the characters are. It's the only Sentai I gave up on completely and never gave another chance.

But like GoldenXtreme said above, it's good that someone can enjoy it, even if I can't.

I think the abundance of slash fanfiction relative to hetero might be the result of stuff like your example with the Build V-Cinemas, where Ryuuga was forcefully written in to a relationship with Yui, who is almost universally hated by fans for how she comes out of nowhere and is overly rude. If the majority of ships in official media is hetero, I can see why most of the slash ships would be relegated to fanfiction. So probably if there was more of that in official media, then the demand for it in fanfiction would probably decrease. But hey, progress takes time and trying to force it would only slow it down. We just got to be patient.

Romance is definitely a tricky topic though and it has to be handled with care by someone who knows what they're doing. This is why I appreciate Inoue, cause he genuinely cares about the characters and wants to make their actions realistic. In his shows, the plot revolves around those characters, not the other way around. Everything usually happens pretty naturally. For how not to write romance, I refer everybody to the works of Sanjo Riku, who thinks romance can be set up in a single scene without any prior foreshadowing. I think he improved a little with Drive, but only a little.

Not sure if you've watched Ryusoulger, but there's this guy called Bamba, who has a really sensible approach to romance, where he's not averse to it, but he's also totally fine with being single until he meets a special someone. He's more chill about his relationship status and it's a healthier contrast to Canalo, who is always looking for the next rebound. I think that Bamba has the secret to a successful long-term relationship: Patience.

Wild how people can watch the exact same show and come away with completely different conclusions!

Yeah, I wasn't trying to invalidate anyone who writes slashfic as a way of expressing representation when, as you say, hetero stuff is way more common outside of that. I was more phrasing it like how that has come to be seen as representative of fanfic and fan-spaces as a whole, much like how the perception of anime for a while was "Oh so it's weird tentacle stuff and/or Pokemon" which meant anything that wasn't that was ignored. There's nothing wrong with slash fanfic, but sometimes it can feel like fandom is 90% ships, which again, comes back to sex and romance being everywhere.