Firstly, I'd like to show my appreciation once more for providing yet another thread full of constructive discussion and debate about this cool franchise.

This was the first KR finale that aired after I joined TN and I was excited to talk about it, but the corresponding episode thread had derailed in to such toxicity that I noped out without ever sharing my opinion. So thanks for giving me a second chance.

Now on to the episode:

I liked how Aruto and Horobi took a break from the fight to just have an honest conversation where they both connect over their mutual despair and finally acknowledge that their true enemy was the hatred inside their hearts. The final battle was a formality, a way to vent those feelings they were denying themselves, to find peace in the conclusion and hardest of all, forgive each other. By doing that, they were able to beat Ark's influence on them for good. It's one of the most touching final battles I've seen in KR and I hold it as a standard for villain redemption arcs.

Which is especially impressive, considering that I strongly dislike RealEyezing Hopper for how superfluous it is, how Soreo's ghost conjures it like he's some kind of magician and how it basically functions just like Zero Two but with a Zero One skin. It's my least favorite form of Zero One and I honestly feel sad anytime it shows up instead of Zero Two.

But hey, the emotion behind that fight scene was worth it.

Sadly, I'm going to have to agree with the opinion that Aruto creating an Izu clone and calling her Izu feels wrong.

While you make a fair point about the parenting symbolism, I just feel uncomfortable with the concept of Aruto becoming a father to a clone of his aunt and treating her exactly the same way like she's the same character. Izu was unique, that's why her life mattered. New Izu deserves to be more than a replacement, she has the same potential as any other HumaGear to reach singularity, but how can she do that if she's trapped within Aruto's biased expectations of her? Aruto's just doing the same thing that Seiji did with Seine and I think it's a complete contradiction of his philosophy on the value of life. He's in denial and not moving on.

How do we tell the difference between them though? OG Thouzer has the golden collar, but the others look the same to me.

They sure are cute though!

Pretty ironic as well, considering Horobi's namesake.

I'm virtually never online when Die posts a review. Oh well.

[QUOTE=Sh Ranger;836412While you make a fair point about the parenting symbolism, I just feel uncomfortable with the concept of Aruto becoming a father to a clone of his aunt and treating her exactly the same way like she's the same character. Izu was unique, that's why her life mattered. New Izu deserves to be more than a replacement, she has the same potential as any other HumaGear to reach singularity, but how can she do that if she's trapped within Aruto's biased expectations of her? Aruto's just doing the same thing that Seiji did with Seine and I think it's a complete contradiction of his philosophy on the value of life. He's in denial and not moving on.[/QUOTE]
I don't really see it as Aruto becoming a parent to his aunt, just because the dynamic between Aruto and Is is more complicated and harder to define than that, and I don't think he's going to try and force her to be the same even if it feels like he wants her to react the same way the old version would. But I feel like he would still be fine with her becoming her own person.

One little nitpick that I have for Zero-One was how they didn't maximize the usage of Soreo and Korenosuke in the series. I almost forgot Aruto had a Humagear Dad until last episode, lol. That heart-to-heart scene between Aruto and his dad was a warm welcome and I wish the series did this a lot more. Soreo was better utilized because he had spotlight in Reiwa First Generation. Korenosuke, on the other hand... I wish there was more scene with him, even as flashbacks with Gai and Fukuzoe. It's baffling to see after I found out Koronosuke's last appearance was in ep 13. For such a central figure, a little snippets of Aruto's grandpa would be welcome.

Other than, pretty much this was a really satisfying finale. I think the last time Final Villain was spared was with Hajime in Blade but that's a whole another beast. I think Yuya Takahashi did a good job to land the perfect way to convey the messages for the audiences. There's a certain mirror or parallel where Aruto showed Horobi that no matter how low we sink or descend to despair, we could always leap back and just move on from the past. Honestly, it was the right decision for the show to make Aruto as Ark-One. Aruto needs to sink to his lowest point as possible and relate to what Horobi experienced. It's nice to see the show made Aruto to be on the same level as Horobi specifically so Horobi could see as an example of hope.

My favorite parts in this episode was when Aruto let go of Izu's memento ribbon in the sky. That was... Beautiful was not an understatement. There's a nice symbolism here in that ribbon which signified Aruto moved on and LET go Izu. Izu WAS dead and that's the fact. Remember how I informed the Ark Signal One in Ark-One's suit that basically acted as coping mechanism for Aruto? Aruto used the Ark-One's suit solely to run from reality. Once Horobi destroyed the suit, there's a nice transition where Aruto was freed from the Ark-One and Azu's machination or dream. More or less it meant Aruto was waking up from his dream and face reality. He ACCEPTED he lost Izu and that's it. Basically the whole arc of Aruto as Ark-One was a reality check for our protagonist to REALIZE he needs to face reality as much as he dreams. He can't sought the dream that he and Izu wished for if he keeps running from reality.

I think that message goes for any of us. It's easy to hate, despise and resent others, like Horobi. It's also easier for us to run away from reality in front of our eyes, like Aruto. Only after accepting ourself and facing our problems we can become the best of us. We understand each other after facing our own problems from the inside.

I'm a bit in-between regarding reviving Izu. I understand why people dislike and feel it was so wrong to revive back Izu. It was almost a back slap to everything that had happened in the last arc. Still, I respect their decision to bring back Izu again. It's not like it was the same old Izu. The old Izu is dead. This was an act of Aruto honoring the late Izu. It was a nice metaphor where Izu was the one who helped Aruto the most before and now it was the reverse. This was the best book end I could wish for this show.

Glad you liked the finale!

Yeah, they were really something else. Half of the final episode was just two guys brawling, and it was as jaw-dropping as any movie ALL RIDERS-type climax. This show was always creative with the fight scenes.

Aw, that's a bummer. I'm glad you were willing to try again! Everyone here has been incredibly supportive of other viewpoints, and very patient with any disagreements. Fun place to talk about Kamen Rider!

There're always going to be opinions I have about a show that are steadfast, certain. This is not one of those opinions! I'll readily admit that rebuilding Izu is super weird, and arguably in bad taste. I can see where the show is maybe coming from with this resolution, but I don't blame anyone who finds it somewhere between Gross and Abhorrent. It's a weird choice for the show to make!

I find it funny how much core background for Aruto that the show just never establishes. What happened to his biological parents? Why did his Grandad build him a robot dad? What happened after the robot dad was destroyed? Why didn't Grandad Hiden take any role whatsoever in raising Aruto? There's just this blank space between Daybreak Town and the first episode, and it's insane that the show never found a single minute to try and fill that blank in.

Yeah, I think usually a show would spare Horobi and then do a final battle with the Ark. This one flipped it around, and I think ended it up okay?

Williamson was already the chief of ZAIA's Research and Development department while Gai was the President... so he gotta know ZAIA's members right? He's already a major member there since long. And of course he's not a bad guy, no one says he is, he's the good foil to Gai as the holders of ZAIA's President position. These kind of leaders are often used in good guy factions in stories actually, but are also instilling ruthlessness to people around them so they're "effective". Errors don't immediately make someone bad at their job (it'd be unfair to immediately assume them so), but still yeah leaders shouldn't be seen as completely infallible, he was making a decision on bad data, but to try shutting up Yua only because she didn't have authority (and only listening when turns out she had one)... it's still being controlling and close-minded.

Oh, actually not like that too.... audience shouldn't be put above the writers at all times too. For example, there are audiences viewing war as awesome and exciting to happen instead in a work about depicting war as horrific, or romanticizing mental illness that the work portrays as something that needs to be taken care of, etc. It's a complex situation too, while fans are entitled to their own interpretation, that does not mean they are always right. The writer's original intention might not be the only valid interpretation, but it probably shouldn't be dismissed out of hand, either.

This is a better redemption than Gai's because, there's at least some buildup for Horobi before, in his grieving heart out of Jin's death, and back then, turning out to care about Jin in ep. 36, and then actually declaring war on humanity partly due to Jin's well-being. Overall, Jin being Horobi's anchor is the build up to his redemption. I actually think, it'd be not satisfying to not have Aruto pointing out that he killed Izu in response to Horobi being mad that Aruto accidentally killed Jin, but yeah playing blame game like that is a part of the root of revenge, and Horobi does realize that he not only killed Izu, but Soreo as well, when Aruto reached out for Izu's ribbon. Though like any moral teachings, it can be risky and can be misinterpreted. Seems that Horobi (and many other people in Zero-One like Fuwa and Yua) can only realize their mistakes when they directly experience something related on that topic, positive (e.g. Humagear saving Fuwa) or negative.

This seems to reinforce that, people learn from biased data (which was Izu's argument to Horobi's prejudice), how it affects them only (or extending their loved ones only), like how there are people who only deem something as bad if it directly affects them or their circle (but find entertainment at someone being horrible to others, etc.). What should be practiced is unbiased judgment to acknowledge something as good/bad even if it doesn't affect you directly... and if that can be taught by making them experience if themselves thus now they know something is good/bad in general... then it means that killing Jin is the very event that redeemed Horobi. And that can be interpreted as, to make someone see the error of their ways, revenge is needed so they can directly feel what's wrong in their actions, or even worse, practicing revenge by proxy; targeting those who are dear to them instead (can be innocents), so they too can know how it feels to lose a loved one thus know it's wrong.

Though Horobi got upgrades too, yeah he won't be the biggest threat surpassing Ark (though closer) even with his newfond conviction or such.... and thus it'd be the easy way for Aruto if he just finish off Horobi (with the power to do so). And for the series to make it more challenging, of course it got Aruto trying to redeem him instead, which'd be the hard path. Who says the title heroes in KR have easier path on heroism? Idealism (as Aruto re-gained here) can be more difficult and costly. Like how Aruto here, despite his superior equipment, he gotta risk himself by holding back, dropping his Attache Calibur, Rider form, and risk interacting heart-to-heart directly in human form, and Horobi specifically won because Aruto let him to destroy Ark-One Driver (symbolism of shaking off Ark's influence). That certainly can got him killed just like Izu before. Though still why Zero-Two itself isn't used here, but instead another unnecessary stuff by remaking base Zero-One (with boosted stats) that is actually randomly created by said Zero-Two Driver.

Honestly, I still think that Horobi is a bit suspicious to go completely free and doing what he wants. Sure, Horobi is a lot better now than him previously and goes on the right path more, with him not holding prejudiced view now, only malice, but, Horobi's solution is always violence and he doesn't know any other method to deal with a problem, and probably still that way now. With him no longer being prejudiced, he can still, murder anyone who is bad as his solution. That'd be anti-heroic... but it still won't be something that is tolerated by the force of good (such as most lead Riders) like their conflicts with secondary Riders who are like that. Perhaps Jin can continue to be his living anchor (if he had sense of that, he no longer hated humanity but still...)? Other than that, Fuwa shows off his inhuman strength again here, if not for in-universe merchandise like Progrise Keys, then him ripping a car door's off which reaffirms that.

Bittersweet. It's no longer the same Izu Aruto (or everyone, both in and out of universe) knew before, all the quirks she picked up, the memories she shared, etc. are gone forever. The only thing she shared right now are her looks and sound. Aruto had to start over from Zero. But perhaps this is a reminder that even if Izu can be rebuilt like this, luckily unlike some other Humagears like her older brother, doesn't mean that a death of Humagear isn't tragic loss for humans just like a death of a human loved one, especially if the Humagears reach Singularity (though permanent loss of data like Soreo's also help), and this also shows why Humagears shouldn't be viewed as tools like Yua did early on.
A̶n̶d̶ ̶s̶p̶e̶a̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶p̶e̶r̶m̶a̶n̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶d̶a̶t̶a̶ ̶l̶o̶s̶s̶,̶ ̶e̶v̶e̶n̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶l̶ ̶h̶u̶m̶a̶n̶s̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶m̶e̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶b̶a̶b̶l̶y̶ ̶o̶t̶h̶e̶r̶s̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶ ̶a̶l̶s̶o̶ ̶f̶e̶e̶l̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶w̶a̶y̶ ̶t̶o̶o̶,̶ ̶r̶e̶g̶a̶r̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶(̶i̶n̶a̶n̶i̶m̶a̶t̶e̶)̶ ̶t̶e̶c̶h̶n̶o̶l̶o̶g̶y̶,̶ ̶i̶f̶ ̶w̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶w̶e̶'̶v̶e̶ ̶w̶o̶r̶k̶e̶d̶ ̶h̶a̶r̶d̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶l̶o̶s̶t̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶e̶v̶e̶r̶,̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶c̶o̶r̶r̶u̶p̶t̶e̶d̶/̶l̶o̶s̶t̶ ̶d̶a̶t̶a̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶g̶a̶m̶e̶ ̶s̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶f̶i̶l̶e̶,̶ ̶d̶o̶c̶u̶m̶e̶n̶t̶s̶,̶ ̶c̶r̶e̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶,̶ ̶e̶t̶c̶.̶

They don't bring back Soreo not because it'd tarnish his sacrifice, it's because Soreo's data was linked into Ark (as it was the Humagear's main satellite before being hacked), thus Soreo's data was lost forever and cannot be restored.

I hope Aruto wouldn't try and force his image of Izu on New Izu, but since we don't really get any scenes of him dealing with un-Izu-like behavior, I'm not sure how he would react to that.

Yeah, that thread was all malice like Ark, but I think everybody here has been able to talk about this episode openly in a mature and respectful way, just like Aruto and Horobi after overcoming their hatred. It's a neat parallel.

Depictions don't have to be mutually exclusive though. Like, COD developer Treyarch can depict the horrors of war all they want, but their revenue is dependent on the audience seeing it as awesome and exciting, as that's the product's selling point.

And the fact that he and his grandpa are never on-screen together. Like they photoshop a picture of him with Gai but we never actually see these two together.

A part of me kind of wishes the "visitor" that gave Aruto Realize Hopper was actually Grandpa Hiden instead of Soreo.

SERIES WRAP-UP

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/zeroone/seriesa.png

One of the most amazing things about the Kamen Rider franchise is that it can be about literally anything. Not just in the sense of aesthetics or genre or anything, the surface level It’s A Medical Drama or Time Travel of it all, but on a thematic level. There’re core tenets of Kamen Rider that are always going to be there, topics like empathy and ecology and self-acceptance, but individual shows can talk about nearly anything. This one chose to talk about topics as diverse as how technology fits into our lives; how we overcome racism and intolerance; how to end cycles of hatred; how we learn from people, and how we teach people; how the only way to truly succeed is to be willing to help others succeed. It’s full of intriguing concepts that lack easy answers, and it’s astonishingly willing to follow those ideas to tricky places. It’s one of the smartest Kamen Rider shows I’ve ever watched.

At the same time… I’m not sure it was best served by being a Kamen Rider show.

When you’re telling a story that’s condemning violence as the solution to problems, or that’s digging into topics like how capitalism puts the working class at each other’s throats, it’s hard to do that within the context of a superhero show designed to sell toys to Japanese children. The elements of this show that are required by its genre – the costumes and transformations and monsters and detonations – frequently felt like impositions, especially in the first half of the show. Too many meditations on how therapeutic technology should be before it becomes a crutch ended up veering into pointless battles. So much of the MetsubouJinrai stuff in the first two-thirds of the show felt thin and unconvincing, compared to the depth and nuance of the average Humagear storyline.

My favorite run of the show was the Job War arc, easy. It’s the smartest set of episodes in an already smart show. The switch from pointless MetsubouJinrai punch-em-ups to the individually-motivated Raiders and Humagears turned each week’s storyline into a tense showcase for societal integration and economic anxiety. The fights mattered, all of a sudden. The conflicts helped explore a society that advanced as quickly as it could without figuring out where exactly it was going. They leapt towards a dream, but didn’t know how to land safely. I loved that version of this show.

It’s also the version that seemed to irritate almost everyone else, which maybe gets to my point about how effectively this show served both its themes and its genre. It’s hard to be a superhero fantasy that celebrates physical action AND a cerebral investigation into how societies codify intolerance into economic systems. Like, there’s some overlaps there, and this show was very clever about finding them, but too often it was one or the other. At worst, it was one or the other in the same episode.

I say all that like this show was a noble failure, or too grandiose for its own good. Even with the drag factor of These Unprecedented Times, this show churned out phenomenal action, terrific music, and outstanding suit designs. The cast acquitted themselves well, frequently creating moments of memorable beauty. The configuration of the cast, and the show’s use of them… that’s a little more complex.

I think this show was attentive to every character, which is a huge ask for a cast this large. Every Rider got an arc, and most supporting cast members got some growth over the course of the year. No one was a throwaway character, that I can remember. The problem is more that the show didn’t utilize everyone continuously, in regrettably obvious ways. Take Fuwa, for instance. Fuwa’s arc is a huge part of the show (give or take the Job War) right up to the point where Naki’s taken out of his brain. After that, like, what does the show do with Fuwa? He contributes to plots, but there aren’t really any stories (or even plotlines) about him. He’ll randomly say that he’s going to stop the Ark, but he never even really gets close. His biggest post-Naki moment is in 44, where he’s serving Aruto’s plotline. And this is the show’s secondary Rider. It’s even worse for Naki, and for Ikazuchi, and for Yua, and for Gai, and maybe even for Jin. Folks get their big moment of self-acceptance or enlightenment, and then the show’s like Mission Accomplished, and puts them on the shelf. Horobi is the only non-Aruto character to get some real focus in the final episodes, but he barely got any focus before those episodes, so it’s sort of a wash. There’s very little consistency to how this show uses its cast. Good stories get fired off all the time, but it almost feels like a rotation, rather than any sort of organic progress.

I liked this show, despite sounding like I don’t. I think its bravery in exploring difficult questions, and in deconstructing the emotional turmoil inherent to most tokusatsu finales, is laudable. Its high points were frequent, and its low points ended up being negligible. But the friction between its high-minded themes and its To Sell Toys mandate ended up creating too many discordant formulas (if I never have to watch MetsubouJinrai slap a Zetsumeriser on a Humagear again, I’ll’ve still seen it a hundred times too many), and the agreeable meandering of its exploration worked against the sort of character-based storytelling that keeps every main cast member feeling vital to the narrative. I loved this show trying new things, but I don’t think I’d recommend anyone else try to do it this way again.

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/zeroone/seriesb.png

…and that’s where we’re going to leave this series for a little bit. I’ve got some stuff coming up in the next few weeks (a vacation, probably/hopefully a move) that are going to make watching anything difficult, and writing up anything virtually impossible. The current plan is to come back sometime in October (depending on the specific timing of the aforementioned probable/hopeful move) to run through the post-show Zero-One content, but I’ll let you all know if that plan has to be adjusted. Definitely going to get this thread fully closed out by the end of the year, promise. In the meantime, please post any and all thoughts you’ve still got about the TV show portion of Zero-One, and I’ll be back for the rest of this story as soon as possible. Thanks!

No matter how many flaws I can point out from this show, I can't help but love it, I do feel like, if not for Covid that there could've been a better story, but what we have right now is still great. I don't know what it is about this show, but even after episodes like 28, I never stopped loving this show, it's not the greatest, but it's not the worst, it's a perfectly fine show, but for some reason, I'm much fonder of it, than even the more recent Reiwa shows, that I've seen people prefer. I don't have much to say on it as a whole, other than that, I personally loved the show.

Zero-One's cool, except for the job arc, you can never change my mind on that.

I'd post an MV I had but that has to wait till October because well.

Story time: So Zero-Two's debut inspired me to do an MV for Zero-One's season like I've done for Gaim, Drive, Ghost, Ex-Aid, and Zi-O in the past. There was one issue though... I assumed endgame would be Zero-Two styling over Ark-Zero and eventually Ark-One while tag teaming with everyone. And that would be the cap off of like the final minute of the MV barring any wind down shots.

That obviously did not happen! And while I don't regret what we got, 42 to 45 did not gel at all with the tone I was going for. It wasn't until RealxTime came out that I realized that I could just supplement my original idea with the stuff from RealxTime and it worked beautifully!

So of course since it has spoilers, I can't post it yet! I shall now return to my slumber.