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-   -   Which current Sentai Kamen Rider Fan Subs Are better (https://www.tokunation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14740)

WhiteRanger 10-11-2012 01:38 PM
Which current Sentai Kamen Rider Fan Subs Are better
 
well i was keeping thin in my mind and i thought i ask it

who is Better

TV Nihon

Over Time

or Both

you choose

Blade Raider 10-11-2012 03:08 PM
I'm going to be nice and say both because different people want different things.

Personally, I will always prefer a subs with no notes on the video (not just Overtime, but any group that doesn't have them). It drives me nuts when I see these because it's almost always something that doesn't need a note. Overtime is not perfect. They can take too many liberties sometimes, but I know they do this and it's never on important things. That said, I will always go with Overtime over TV-Nihon anyday if given the option because I simply enjoy their translations better.

ShockerCon 10-11-2012 03:15 PM
I prefer Overtime, it just sucks that for any show pre-2011, you're pretty much forced to go to TV-Nihon.

Matrixbeast 10-11-2012 03:19 PM
I tend to stick with OT, because they don't have the annoying tendency to leave words untranslated for no reason (Beyond just "Henshin").

Den-O 10-11-2012 03:39 PM
Recently I've come to hate using OT after that racist BS dialogue they gave the Phantom for Wizards' recent 2-parter. I used to go to them because they're quick but I've always upgraded to the TVN subs after. Now I'm not even sure I want to watch their stuff just because it's early. I mean if they took THAT many liberties with a characters dialogue just because he was black then how many other liberteies are they taking with dialogue for everybody else?

Switchblade 10-11-2012 03:55 PM
I prefer Overtime's more localized translations over TVN's grammatically awkward and blatantly weeaboo literal translations. A good translation should give you something that makes sense in your native language, even if some minor liberties need to be taken in order for it to make sense.

Plus they can get stuff out on time since they don't have to spend half a week dicking around with flashy fonts and graphics. Good subtitles should be only noticeable enough to read, not potentially distracting from the video.

But for subs in general, my favorite group is KITSubs.

Matrixbeast 10-11-2012 03:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Den-O (Post 59962)
Recently I've come to hate using OT after that racist BS dialogue they gave the Phantom for Wizards' recent 2-parter. I used to go to them because they're quick but I've always upgraded to the TVN subs after. Now I'm not even sure I want to watch their stuff just because it's early. I mean if they took THAT many liberties with a characters dialogue just because he was black then how many other liberteies are they taking with dialogue for everybody else?
It wasn't really racist.
It was dumb, yes, but I found it funny.

MidoGreen 10-11-2012 04:39 PM
Oh dear, I have a feeling this topic won't end well. That being said, I voted Both. Both have their pros and cons. Though prefer TVN if I'm keeping the episode saved.

ShockerCon 10-11-2012 04:50 PM
Ooh look. There's a poll now.

Den-O 10-11-2012 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrixbeast (Post 59970)
It wasn't really racist.
It was dumb, yes, but I found it funny.
How was it not racist to replace the dialogue of a black character speaking with something like that? It's incredibly unprofessional.

Blade Raider 10-11-2012 05:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Den-O (Post 60002)
How was it not racist to replace the dialogue of a black character speaking with something like that? It's incredibly unprofessional.
Here we go...count zero...

Sorry, had the Agito theme was playing in the background while reading this. It sung what I was thinking :lol

ZeoRangerV 10-11-2012 05:36 PM
Overtime. I don't dislike TV-Nihon's subs by any means (I'd glady take their Dairanger and Gekiranger subs over Hikari Senshi's) but Overtimes are generally easier on the eyes (both in terms of how they read and the font they use) and I'll take mkvs over mp4s any day of the week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Switchblade (Post 59968)
But for subs in general, my favorite group is KITSubs.
I'm yet to watch anything they've put out yet, but now that they're helping with Stronger I'm looking forward to seeing that when its done.

Dr Kain 10-11-2012 05:52 PM
OT has the faster releases, but I like Nihon's graphics. On most things though, OT has better translations, but Nihon's translations for Wizard seem to be top notch. I like both, honestly. If I'm watching a show at my leisure though, like I did over the summer with W, OOO, and Fourze, I definitely go with Nihon's. However, for something I am watching as it airs (in the case of Wizard), I go with OTs.

Switchblade 10-11-2012 07:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Den-O (Post 60002)
How was it not racist to replace the dialogue of a black character speaking with something like that? It's incredibly unprofessional.
I wouldn't say it's racist, per say, just really insensitive. Like the twins from RotF.

Den-O 10-11-2012 07:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Switchblade (Post 60039)
I wouldn't say it's racist, per say, just really insensitive. Like the twins from RotF.
Whatever word is used to describe it I still think it's turned me off to them. I always felt their stuff was too casually translated anyway but I just can't do it anymore.

MidoGreen 10-11-2012 08:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Den-O (Post 60002)
How was it not racist to replace the dialogue of a black character speaking with something like that? It's incredibly unprofessional.
Not to mention how they "translated" Morishita's line to the Go-Busters after they returned from subspace. I don't know how the hell they got "Did you have fun?" from "Good work.".

Blade Raider 10-11-2012 09:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MidoGreen (Post 60067)
Not to mention how they "translated" Morishita's line to the Go-Busters after they returned from subspace. I don't know how the hell they got "Did you have fun?" from "Good work.".
Morishita is boring enough. Give 'em something. :p

areaseven 10-12-2012 02:41 AM
Why are we limited to only two fansub groups when we also have Grown-Ups in Spandex, HaroRangers, Hi no Tori, KITSubs, Gao Soul Forever, Century Kings and many other groups out there?

On the subject of Over-Time subtitling Cat Sidhe's dialogue, not only is it racist, the tone is completely incorrect. Bernard Ackah is of Ivorian (Ivory Coast) descent; so if anything, he should have somewhat of a French accent, not Ebonics slang.

Matrixbeast 10-12-2012 02:48 AM
Wow. I guess I really was the only one who wasn't offended by Cat Sith :lol

ZeoRangerV 10-12-2012 05:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrixbeast (Post 60149)
Wow. I guess I really was the only one who wasn't offended by Cat Sith :lol
I wasn't really bothered by it either. If anything I thought it gave the guy an actual personality.

SpeedDemon 10-12-2012 05:36 AM
I think that trans give him a more playful feel to it. But it was a bit insensitive.

ZeoRangerV 10-12-2012 05:41 AM
I guess at least if you don't like something with Overtime's subs the option is there to change it yourself. It's an absolute pain to do (mainly because I haven't worked out how the hell mkv merge works), but if you don't like something about TV-Nihon's you're just stuck with it.

Which brings me back to my mkv/mp4 > mp4/avi argument. But at least there's choice out there :)

ComicGuy89 10-12-2012 10:34 AM
I generally like Over-Time's better, but I think both are two extreme ends. Over-Time translates too much, while TV-Nihon doesn't translate enough.

areaseven 10-12-2012 11:06 AM
I'm personally not gonna argue on which is better, but there have been numerous occasions when Over-Time botched some translations. One classic example is episode 26 of Kaizoku Sentai Gokaiger, where the Hurricanegers quizzed Satarakura Jr. Nanami-chan saying, "The bird is the word," made absolutely no sense compared to TV-Nihon's translation of sekitori (a class of Sumo wrestler) being "a fat bird".

And so what if TV-Nihon leaves some words untranslated? There are some of us who want to learn Japanese, anyway. If some words bother you, either get a dictionary or just don't watch their fansubs at all.

Switchblade 10-12-2012 12:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by areaseven (Post 60206)
I'm personally not gonna argue on which is better, but there have been numerous occasions when Over-Time botched some translations. One classic example is episode 26 of Kaizoku Sentai Gokaiger, where the Hurricanegers quizzed Satarakura Jr. Nanami-chan saying, "The bird is the word," made absolutely no sense compared to TV-Nihon's translation of sekitori (a class of Sumo wrestler) being "a fat bird".
With stuff like the elaborate puns and jokes in some of these shows Over-Time's approach is to try and make a working joke in English, even if they have to take more liberties with the exact phrasing. TVN favors keeping the phrasing, often at the expense of the joke losing any sense of humor. There was a lot of this in Fourze, especially the Cancer episodes.

Quote:
And so what if TV-Nihon leaves some words untranslated? There are some of us who want to learn Japanese, anyway. If some words bother you, either get a dictionary or just don't watch their fansubs at all.
The purpose of translation is to make a foreign work accessible to an audience that doesn't speak that language. If you are arbitrarily leaving part of the text in the original language then you are working against that goal of accessibility. If you want to learn Japanese then study Japanese. You aren't going to become fluent in the language just because you had to look up what "itadakimasu" or "ore sanjou" mean.

A case in point: I watched TVN's Dairanger subs awhile ago. Every time Jin was in an episode there was a lot of talk about "kenpou" and "kensei," with no explanation of what those terms mean. Now I'm smart enough to figure them out through context, but I shouldn't have to do that. A translation should be a translation, not a partial translation except for the things that look cooler in Japanese. There is no reason why you need to say "kenpou" instead of "martial arts" or "kensei" instead of any of the dozens of English words that mean "warrior." It's just masking laziness under the guise of pretending that some words can't even be approximated in English.

Den-O 10-12-2012 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Switchblade (Post 60220)
With stuff like the elaborate puns and jokes in some of these shows Over-Time's approach is to try and make a working joke in English, even if they have to take more liberties with the exact phrasing. TVN favors keeping the phrasing, often at the expense of the joke losing any sense of humor. There was a lot of this in Fourze, especially the Cancer episodes.


The purpose of translation is to make a foreign work accessible to an audience that doesn't speak that language. If you are arbitrarily leaving part of the text in the original language then you are working against that goal of accessibility. If you want to learn Japanese then study Japanese. You aren't going to become fluent in the language just because you had to look up what "itadakimasu" or "ore sanjou" mean.

A case in point: I watched TVN's Dairanger subs awhile ago. Every time Jin was in an episode there was a lot of talk about "kenpou" and "kensei," with no explanation of what those terms mean. Now I'm smart enough to figure them out through context, but I shouldn't have to do that. A translation should be a translation, not a partial translation except for the things that look cooler in Japanese. There is no reason why you need to say "kenpou" instead of "martial arts" or "kensei" instead of any of the dozens of English words that mean "warrior." It's just masking laziness under the guise of pretending that some words can't even be approximated in English.
But it has nothing to do with laziness when contextually speaking those words make more sense in their original language.

Matrixbeast 10-12-2012 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Den-O (Post 60224)
But it has nothing to do with laziness when contextually speaking those words make more sense in their original language.
That's no excuse when someone doesn't speak aforementioned original language.
It's why I prefer OT. They don't make the odd reasoning that "If they want to know what this word means, they can either figure it out or Google it."
Because with that mentality, the argument can be made "Why don't they just subtitle it all in romanji Japanese and the English speakers can just look up what everything means themselves?"

ZeoRangerV 10-12-2012 12:29 PM
Personally, I think any sub that involves me having to look something up is kind of missing the point of it being a translation.

Switchblade 10-12-2012 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Den-O (Post 60224)
But it has nothing to do with laziness when contextually speaking those words make more sense in their original language.
But that's not the point of a translation. A translation is supposed to make something understandable in another language.

Den-O 10-12-2012 01:47 PM
But if there aren't appropriately corresponding terms then I see no problem with leaving it as is. This is why I try not to get into these arguments, I love the way TVN does things for the most part. The flashy graphics are exactly what I like and everything else feels broing when comapred to it. But putting that bias aside I still think their work is more acurate. I'll even admit that they overdid things just a bit with Dairanger and Shinkenger. But for the most part I feel they are far more accurate with translations even when they don't translate certain terms. And at least they don't have blunders like needlessy translating GobusterOh to GobusterKing when there's actually a mech called GobusterKing coming down the line. I realize OT had no way of knowing that at the time but then why would they translate it any way? If that's their logic then Daibouken should be translated as Great Adventurer.

Matrixbeast 10-12-2012 02:00 PM
It's less accuracy and more understanding, for me.
If a Japanese word doesn't have a direct English translation, use an approximation, not just leave the word in.
This is feeling like the "Aniki/Aibou" argument I had with a friend :lol

Blade Raider 10-12-2012 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by areaseven (Post 60143)
Why are we limited to only two fansub groups when we also have Grown-Ups in Spandex, HaroRangers, Hi no Tori, KITSubs, Gao Soul Forever, Century Kings and many other groups out there?
Because this is for who the "best" at the current shows. Those guys only do old shows for the most part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrixbeast (Post 60149)
Wow. I guess I really was the only one who wasn't offended by Cat Sith :lol
I didn't even notice it until people were complaining. Okay, I did notice that his subs were written different. I figured he was talking a different dialect or had an accent (something TV-Nihon never accounts for). Eitherway, Cat Sith was a one off (two off?) monster of the week. Nothing here worth getting all worked up about.

Den-O 10-12-2012 02:49 PM
Except that the changing of his dialogue to a charicature of what black people sound like is inherently racist and insensitive? I think that's something worth being worked up about.

Blade Raider 10-12-2012 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrixbeast (Post 60265)
It's less accuracy and more understanding, for me.
If a Japanese word doesn't have a direct English translation, use an approximation, not just leave the word in.
This is feeling like the "Aniki/Aibou" argument I had with a friend :lol
This is a good topic.

I agree that things that have a direct English translation should be translated. Best example is still Dekamaster's title "Jigoku no Banken" which literally translates to "Hell's Guard Dog." I don't need nor want the subtitles to repeat the Japanese. I can hear Doggie say "Jigoku no Banken" so what I need from the subtitles is to tell me what those words mean. You know, TRANSLATE.

On the other hand, I have encountered words that I just can't figure out how one would translate them on a daily bases (a term used a lot, not just once). Recently I started Faiz and the title character doesn't like hot food. He'll blow on the food and let it sit until cool. The female lead, Mari I think is her name, makes fun of him by calling Faiz a "nekojita" (person that doesn't like hot food) almost every episode. I honestly don't know what to call that in English when it's used so much. I'd like to see what OT would do with it.

Blade Raider 10-12-2012 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Den-O (Post 60275)
Except that the changing of his dialogue to a charicature of what black people sound like is inherently racist and insensitive? I think that's something worth being worked up about.
This arguement is a lot better in song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RovF1...eature=related

This is a trivial matter at best. Save the racist card for important things.

ShockerCon 10-12-2012 06:12 PM
Regarding the whole Ckait Scyithe issue, I don't see how OT's translation was racist. The way I see it, all they did was give a bit of personality to a MotW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade Raider (Post 60284)
This arguement is a lot better in song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RovF1...eature=related

This is a trivial matter at best. Save the racist card for important things.
This.

Dairenoh 10-12-2012 07:38 PM
I picked both since I don't care who subs it as long as someone does.

Destroyman 10-12-2012 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShockerCon (Post 60311)
Regarding the whole Ckait Scyithe issue, I don't see how OT's translation was racist. The way I see it, all they did was give a bit of personality to a MotW.
But he already had plenty of personality, & I really don't see how making him a walking stereotype is a good thing.

bluesparrow 10-13-2012 12:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Den-O (Post 60275)
Except that the changing of his dialogue to a charicature of what black people sound like is inherently racist and insensitive? I think that's something worth being worked up about.
Yeah it was pretty bad. Especially since it was a caricature of AMERICAN black people and the actor is German, raised in Japan since he was two, according to wikipedia. So they were definitely putting their own spin on his dialogue.

On the other hand I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. The actor's performance as Caitsith was pretty exaggerated, you could tell just from his vocal performance. So maybe they were just trying to convey that and misjudged the appropriateness of their interpretation. Have they made any comment on the issue?

Overall I prefer TV Nihon just because their site seems a little easier to navigate and mp4s run better on my computer than wmvs. But I'll still get the Over-ti.me subs just because they do them faster. Everything older I'm watching from TVN.

Blade Raider 10-13-2012 01:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesparrow (Post 60401)
Overall I prefer TV Nihon just because their site seems a little easier to navigate and mp4s run better on my computer than wmvs. But I'll still get the Over-ti.me subs just because they do them faster. Everything older I'm watching from TVN.
TV-Nihon uses mostly avi and mp4 (huh, when did they start using mp4?). Overtime uses mkv for HD and mp4 for SD. I've never a sub group use wmv.


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