Epic Mecha Debate Thread
 

Bashaa. The Dragonzord was, in fact, awesome. But by no means the most awesome. And what always bothered me about Siren Builder is the same thing that bothered me about RyuJin. A Sixth Ranger's Machine should combine fully with the other Mecha. Unlike you Solarus Knight who decided your Mecha shouldn't combine with anyone. What the french toast.

The best Mecha to combine all six Rangers is still Goseiger. It is. One of the worst is Abaranger, for the same reason has Kakuranger. It just attaches on the back "I have Wings!". Yea, no. A better combination for all six rangers is Hurricane despite how weird it looked.

And Matrix? Don't read this next part. Geki did a horrible job of combining things. Violet becomes.. a foot? And Rhino didn't even combine at all! And no, I am not counting that centaur-mode. Using that is lazy design and I'm looking at you Gokaiger.

Zyuranger was alright. But not the best. Dragon Ceaser just became shoulder armor. Seriously? Least it became it's own Megazord. And here's where Zeo V shuts his eyes and hums Go Gold Ranger. OhRanger didn't do a good job either. I don't know the asian names, so bare with me, but all Red Battlezord did was press his back against Zeo Mega and lay his arms on it's shoulders! And don't even get me started on Pyramidas. The Ultrazord Combination just had all the Zords slide inside the back! You couldn't even see the damn things. And it was the same issue with Dairanger and their carrier. Lazy design. (Though thinking Zeo Megazord was called Oh-Oh in Japan did make me giggle. I'll admit that.)

Lightspeed Rescue had more lazy combinations. Another case of them just going inside a bigger mech. And Carranger, same damn thing. I think Toei and Bandai use this when they can't come up with anything better. "Ah screw it guys, just have them all go inside something and let's get some soba!". Megaranger didn't combine much, they just kept introducing a new Mecha every couple episodes. Same with Timeranger. Time Fire, adding to my hatred of him, didn't even combine with the damn thing at all! Wild Force.. Wild Force went to far the other direction. There were so many Zords, so many different combinations, you didn't know what the hell was happening long enough to form an ultimate anything. SPD suffered to. Yes, Omega and SPD Mega combined. But the Ultimate was another Hide-Insider. Though I did enjoy SWAT becoming a rifle. Mystic Force didn't really combine. Boukenger did to a point. Though how you add a giant ass aircraft carrier to construction vehicles I have no idea, so I'll give them that. Go-Onger combined into a monster of WTF, but least they freaking combined! And same with Shinkenger. A giant WTF but they combined.

Goseiger did an excellent job. Except, I admit, Hyper was a bit weird. Then it had Datas so what do you expect.

Gokaiger though. Those Grand Powers were so damn hit and miss it was idiotic. Fuujin was a hit, but then he combined and missed so hard the Pope facepalmed. GaoLion missed with another freaking centaur mode but then hit, with me anyway, with the Shinken combination. Loved the giant-ass Fire Smasher. Then you have MagiDragon which.. captured people in rainbows.. okay, sure. And Dekaranger's Grand Power which was a hit and was actually useful unattached. And Go-Onger. My God. They should've shot it and put it out of it's misery. And Ryujin I mentioned. It's an awesome thing by itself but... meh otherwise.

And Go-Busters. That show went from one WTF to the next. Though I still think Lion-Oh made a better fit for the combined form than Buster. Sleeker, less parts hanging out (Buster's feet in Go-Bust-Oh). Least it combined together though.

Have I mentioned I hate Time Fire/Quantam Ranger? I did? Well, I just did again.

The problem with Gokaiger is just how boring a majority of the mecha fights were, especially in the later half of the series when they began spamming Furai Maru and Kazen Gokaioh. It made the mecha battles beyond boring.

Gobusters has been doing a fantastic job with the mecha fights I gotta say. What surprises me is that they don't always go straight into the ultimate combination, I mean each individual component got it's own time in the lime light. Regardless of what anyone says about Gobuster, the mecha battles is the one thing it managed to do right in my book.

I really don't think you need to have every zord combine together to form a giant cluster mess to classify a series mecha as successful.

I'm only going off the American version here, but I wouldn't brush off S.P.D.'s Command Megazord as another 'hide-insider'. I mean, it doubled as a megazord and zord holding bay. I remember it being deployed once or twice on it's own (with the other zords presumably inside) and it was still just itself and not any kind of 'Ultrazord'.

As for the Delta Max megazord, it's a pretty clean combo. One of the components is a bike, the other it's rider. Tacking any of the SWAT flyers onto a ground based mecha just for kicks doesn't make much sense. The whole big deal with the SWAT megazord is that it adds a mecha capable of flight to the teams arsenal.

SPD is easily my favorite ranger series. I'll continue to defend it just as Sentai does goseiger.

Totally hear you on the centaur modes. Laziest, most inexcusable garbage ever, with the exception of Magiranger for obvious reasons. I also still maintain that every part of Gokaiger's mecha/zord line was a crime against humanity, especially GoZyuJin's combination being nothing more than an arm swap. I can't agree with you on Goseiger though. Gosei Ground and Gosei Great were all good, but the header sets themselves were lazy combinations in their own right, simply giving the damn thing more hands or feet. Hyper was also just a matter of sticking the headers and Datas together until the whole thing looked like a Texan homeowner's hunting trophy wall. And then Ultimate. He came in and added nothing of value to the mechs, being an even worse jetpack than Kakuranger.
I'm just saying it for the record, you're a Gobusters fan in denial. G12 and HaOh have their respective thrones, but Gobusters got to that level with 5 pieces. And you seem to be all about complexity.

Your bias. It bleeds through.
"Gosei did it best!" despite leaving off Datas. And the Seaick Brothers. And the Skick Brothers. And the Landick Brothers. And Mystic Brother. And the Hyper Header. And merging with Gosei Ultimate was literally Ultimate forming a triangle jetpack. Or Great standing on top of it...

The best combination is still Hurricanger.

Fixed :D.

But in my opinion, I like my clusterfluffs. However, the best super-combination in my opinion is probably Shinkenger's. The only unused Mecha is Daigoyou, but he's inside the cockpit, where he should be as the true 7th Shinkenger.

Gokaiger Mecha battles were boring. They often made as little sense as Gokai-Oh itself made. Zeo, I think it was, agreed with me in that Gokai Galleon should've been it's own Mech like Megaranger. Then you have alot more room for a better combination later down the road with Ryujin.
The Headders, though Matrix, allowed for much adaptability. You could put them anywhere to do anything. Toy-Wise to. But that could be my Gosei-Bias shining through.
I actually liked Wolzard's Centaur Mode (Whatever the official name was). Because it was different and not just another half mech on the back of an animal, and because Wolzard almost combined with it proper.
I don't think I'm about complexity. I'm more about diversity. And against lazy design choices. I don't think I'm a Go-Bust fan in denial though. -hides pictures of Go-Yellow-

I will concede this one point. Gosei Ultimate was useless. I liked the Miracle Headders but.. The jetpack mode is an atrocity.

You are a terrible human being.

Personally, I hate clusterfuck Megazords. One of the nicest parts of Gokaiger was how they didn't try to take 10-15 mechs and glue them all together into one gigantic, virtually immobile mess. I much prefer things the way GoGo V did it - multiple mechs that are independent of each other and can function more like a squad. I think the whole "everything must combine with everything else, all at once" approach to mech design is one of the worst trends of modern Sentai.

Yea, but Kiryu had a point about Gokai. Every mecha battle was Power-Spam and got old very quickly. Not to mention the combination with Ryujin was useless and the one with him and Mach was WTF.

Even I gotta admit that's true, Gokaiger's Mecha fights are the boring part of the show, stock footage rinse/repeat most of the time

Oh man, I'm agreeing with Sentai, what's happening???? :lol

Hmm? Relevant Gokai bashing?
I'm in.

Gokai Oh itself was uninspired, with only the Galleon even being relevant to their entire theme. It's matryoshka dolling of the other 4 pieces was incredibly stupid, and the combination was so basic it hurt.
All it's fights made use of the current* Great power, rinse and repeat until a new form.

*Only if it had a toy. No Geki, no Car, no Oh, except for the one (Possibly 2) occasions afterward.

Don't worry about it. Gokaiger's mecha battles is one of the few times the majority of the fandom seems to agree on. Yes, that includes me.

PS GokaiOh and GoZyuJin are still awesome designs even though they aren't used effectively.

I personally like the Boukenger mecha battles that I've seen so far.Each machine is shown to be able to put up its own fight.The way the Daibouken comes together borders on reality in the fact that they make it look like it could actually be pulled off,what with the pistons lifting gogo dump so gogo formula could drive up its back and place itself.

The battles so far have been great and unique.I love that he has two "tool" weapons that combine into a sword.Just enjoying the series so far.

Sentai, that was actually a pretty good read (your first post). It was interesting to me.

As much as my MMPR fanboy is screaming "DRAGON ZORD, DRAGON ZORD", that combination really wasn't all that great.

I used to love when mecha would combine in different ways, and (forgive me for not using Gaoranger) I believe Wild Force gave me the best thrill as a kid combination-wise. Sure there were a lot of auxiliary zords, but (and this is only if I'm remembering correctly... Something tells me I might be thinking of Dinothunder/abaranger...) they always found a way to combine the zords, whether they become a new arm or what have you. (again, I could be thinking of Dinothunder, it's early lol)

If only the Gokai-oh could Gokaichange into previous mechs would those scenes be better. I am a Gokaiger fanboy and I will Agree they were dull.

Sure.

Tsubasamaru isn't a sixth ranger mecha though, even if Power Rangers tries to tell you otherwise.

Do you even read my posts? I've always said the Zeo ultrazords sucked :lol

No it wasn't. The Deka machines going in Dekabase Robo was just a powered up Dekabase Robo. It was never an "ultimate combination".

That's extremely debatable given that that the majority of RH-03 and BC-04 and pieces of GT-02 are a glorified backpack that just hangs there.

It probably would've been nice if they used actual auxillary mecha from different series.i.e. Gogo Jet from Boukenger,Abaranger's Burstosaur Ankyloveilous,or Shinkenger's Ika Origami and mix and match them.Say use Ika in the staff mode and Gogo Mixer.Cover them in cement and smash them with Ika.

I think the Mayan's predicted this.

You're thinking of both in truth. Both Gao/Wild and Aba/Dino did about the same thing, but in different ways. I admit I liked the adaptability and it gave you alot of options for customization in the toys. But there was no real "This is the Ultimate mech" in Gao/Wild. I still like Triassic from Aba/Wild.

That would've been freaking epic.

I remembered about the White Falconzord after I posted, but yea. The combination was still crap though. It didn't combine at all with either Ninja or Shogun. Just attached to the back and there's your combination. Which is just as damn lazy as Centaur Combinations.

I can't remember every post you make, Zeo :lol I barely remember every post I make. God they sucked though. The carrier mode of it I'll forgive though, just because you could see all the Zords/Mechs.

I just didn't like Dekabase all around. I thought it was an original idea turning an office building into a mech, but the mech ended up looking really bad.

The only thing I don't like about that final combination is the Gorilla and Rabbit hanging off it's ass in Bandai's current obsession with "Parts left over?! Nooooooooooooooooooooo!"

Yeah, sucks that was only ever used once in-show and did zero damage though :(

Much truth in this post.

Actually, no. For the ninja theme, the combination worked quite well (Emulation of the hang gliders that Japan loves giving their ninjas).

You can't just say "It's not becoming a full set of armor and a new head, so it sucks" because it's one of the few combinations that actually does something right. Keep the aesthetic, simple style, and theme of the mecha.

You see where your Gosei bias is shining through now? "This combination is too simple. So it sucks. This combination is too big, so it sucks. Gosei did it best because I say so."

[QUOTE=Matrixbeast;79897

You see where your Gosei bias is shining through now? "This combination is too simple. So it sucks. This combination is too big, so it sucks. Gosei did it best because I say so."[/QUOTE]

I fail to see how "Let's stick a bunch of random heads everywhere!" equates to Goseiger doing it better, a vast majorty of the combinations were horrendous :lol

Youre Gosei Hate does not affect me.

The Falcon was useless cause it was useless. It just made wings. If they wanted to keep a theme they could've had a peice that connects on to it, and left out the damn thing completely. If there's a Zord/Mech it should connect fully and do something.

And no Headders don't count towards that. Skick, Landick, Seaick, weren't Mecha. They were weapons if anything. Datas I count as a mech and that combined in the same shit way Red Battle did with Zeo. Where Gosei Knight's combined completely to make something different.

But things like the Falcon, Gao in Gokaiger, and other Centaur modes like it are in fact lazy design.

How is "making wings and giving it the ability to fly" or "giving it huge shoulder cannons" not doing something?

The Falcon was the epitome of how combination should be done. It was clean, it was fast, it kept the theme, and it had a purpose other than "More dakka."
Please tell me. How is making wings, giving a grounded robot flight, useless?
Please. I want to know. Because you're not arguing design anymore, you're now arguing use and purpose. What makes Tsubasamaru, giving the mecha the ability to fly without hindering it with tons of armor and weapons, useless?

Not enough heads. :p

It's crotch is a frog head.
It doesn't need to overcompensate with 10 different heads when it already has that.

I am arguing design. It just seemed lazy to me. Not as lazy as Centaurs, but lazy. Yes it added something and helped it fly. But Meh. Dragonzord's shoulder-armor mode was more useful than wings.

I don't remember the Dragonzord combination being anything special. At least the other could fly after combination.

Dragon battlezord, or whatever it was called, was a lot cooler, where it combined with the other zords.

Could anyone in their right mind possibly say that giving Gosei Great a pair of slippers in the form of a rhino and tyrannosaurus head is "doing it right"?

I don't think I explained myself well enough. So I'm going to try again here before Matrix starts catapulting plaguerats over my fence.

The Falconzord was lazy only that it didn't add anything to the overall design. Yes, I guess, it resembled Ninja Gliders and allowed the Ninja Mega to fly. But it certainly didn't do much for the Shogun. Just added needles guns to an already powerful mech. They were many other options they could've gone with. But I was an early design. Like Zyu, and Oh.

But my overall point of Lazy Designs were the Centaur Mechs. Those are the height of laziness.

Now I'll address Goseiger. The Headders aren't transformations. Not really. They're more like add-on/weapon sets for the Machines. Datas is a transformation mecha, so is Groundion, and Goei Wonder. Gosei Mystic is more an Aux Machine. And speaking of Datas: The Megaforce line has proven one thing rather well. Datas was freaking useless because the MF line did the same thing with a single add-on.

Now I'll get to Go-Busters again. Someone said I was a closet fan because I like complexity, and Mecha that combine completely with other mechs. And I don't like laziness like Ryujin giving his arms to Gokai-Oh. And I think my position has changed recently. On two sets of Mechs. The Show Model of Go-Buster-Oh does look clean. I'm warming up to the design, and it doesn't suffer the toys bulky inner-thighs from Ace hanging half out the thing. It gets a little messy with Beet and Stag combine in, but them explaining it has they were never meant to combine was a nice cover for that mess.
I can't believe I'm going to say this. I've fought so hard, for so long, against ever saying this. But I've watched RPM now more than once and have seen it in action. ... I like G-12. God I feel dirty. But I do. It's not perfect by a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong shot. But I'm warming up to the monstrosity of parts.

-=-Toys-=-
I'm still wondering why, on Octo (Well I'm wondering why the heck named it Octo and not Squid but) they couldn't make a better spear for Clawzord. The BoA toys are basically simple down designs of the larger Origami. It wouldn't have taken much to give it a decent spear design.

I always thought that the Falconzord's cannon mode attached to the Shogun Megazord was one of the cooler looking combinations, personally. It was a neat way to incorporate the falcon beyond just being wings and it didn't overly clutter or detract from the already really boss Megazord.

How is giving the Shogun guns needless if it didn't have guns to begin with?

If you consider Gosei Mystic an auxiliary machine, then Tsubasamaru/the Falconzord should be under the same catagory. It isn't a transformation mecha, it isn't a pilot-able mecha and its main reason for to grant the main mecha a new power.

And it did do something for Muteki Shogun. It gave a robot that only could fight with physical attacks an artillery and the ability to do long range attacks. You're calling it an already powerful mecha, but you have to remember that it's the base mecha of Kakuranger, not the mid season upgrade.

That I did not remember. I take back what I said then. I keep forgetting that Season 03 went backwards from kakuranger. Where Shogun was the original, and Ninja was the upgrade. Sorry about that. My bad.

And yea. I see your other point to. I can't count Mystic as an Aux, and Falcon as something else, when in Kaku it wasn't pilotable. So nevermind that whole thing to.

Aww, just as I formed my reply Sentai came to his senses. Oh well, I guess there's still hope for him. :p


Edit: No, wait. Headers add nothing to any design. Falconzord adds wings or guns. You're arguement still makes no sense.

Reread what I posted. I said they aren't mecha they're weapons.

Daikai Shinken-Oh. Nicely incorporates the sixth ranger and the combination is simple and to the point. "Make Shinken-Oh look like a cowboy!"

It's Auxillary Zords, not Artillery Zords. Auxillary: "Providing supplementary or additional help and support." That what Headers do and they aren't good at it.

I said I counted them as weapons. Me, personally.