Is Kamen Rider really meant to be a kid's show?
 

I mean I get that standards and content restrictions and whatnot are a bit different in Japan, but I'm still trying to get around to the fact that these are meant to be shows for kids. Watching W right now and from the general tone at times to the language (I assume the swearing isn't just added or translated a bit harsher by the subbers) used and having episodes where multiple people are killed on-screen and whatnot, it just seems like a bit much doesn't it? Not that I think all these are necessarily bad or something that should be kept from kids (just the opposite really, I'm a bit more lax on those things), I just am kinda..surprised I guess.

Plus looking at the toylines and stuff, especially things like Figuarts which, while action figures, strike me more as a collector oriented/older audience sorta toy. So what's the deal?

Actually most Kamen Rider series are labeled as dramas/action.

Well, it is, as you say, a principle of different standards. Toei just recognizes that there's a marketable appeal to both kids and adults. So you see kids being appeased with new forms and abilities to buy toys off of, while adults get to enjoy good writing. The whole Figuarts thing is also a dichotomy with Bandai. You've got the DX stuff, like the WAP! or FMCS toys and the roleplay stuff, which is marketed primarily at kids (and still gobbled up by collectors), and the collector fanbase is strong enough to where Tamashii Nations figures, like SH Figuarts, can be sold. Basically, everyone loves Kamen Rider.

Funny thing, W actually is not quite as dark as most Rider series can get.

I think Brainchild hits it on the head in that while it's primarily a kids show, it recognizes room for adults and doesn't exclude them. That is why even one of the most lighthearted Rider shows, Fourze, has some seriously dark elements. I think it's a great compromise, keeping the heroic spirit found in kids' shows while introducing some maturity too.

brainchild answers all of lives questions

Just as a minor caveat, being a kids show doesn't mean it can't be a serious show.

I'm a little peeved that the notion of a dramatic story line is treated as "For the adult fans" as if someone younger than 15 couldn't watch and appreciate it...

Makes sense, I mean the site I'm watching them on is a Drama site afterall.

Have to say they have done a really damn good job of it. I wish Hasbro was better about things like Bandai and Toei seem to be.

So I've heard. W certainly does seem to be a bit of a mix of darker themes and a bit of the more fun/lighthearedness Fourze had (though nowhere NEAR the same level. I know I've heard Ryuki is really dark, as is...I think Agito (or was it Kabuto?). What would you consider the darkest (not counting the Showa era, as from what I understand most of those were a bit darker in tone).

Definitely agreed, Fourze actually had a few near tearjerker moments for me even, which was just not what I was expecting from that particular series. It had such a nice balance of everything, even if it was more fun and light than not. It played its cards very well.

What I've gathered as well.

Yeah, I agree with you. I probably could have worded myself a bit better. I completely agree that kids can and do appreciate things with some depth and drama to them, I certainly did when I was younger, it's just something you generally don't see stateside.

Ryuki, because there can be, and eventually is, only one.

I think the kids that people are generally thinking of are the 5-9 year-old crowd, whose primary interest is going to be, for the most part, toys and flashy visuals. That aside, I can see preteens and some younger than that enjoying the stories of the simpler shows of late, like Fourze, but something like Blade or Ryuki? I don't know how much of that would come across to someone younger than 12.
I might just be basing that on myself though. I was an idiot as a kid.

Considering what Toei considers "Kamen Rider for adults" was Shin, I think they had the mindset of making a show for kids with Ryuki and Blade.

Honestly, the first four Heisei series are all really dark in their own way. Kuuga has an enormous body count, Agito has some of the most gruesome deaths I've ever seen in an ostensibly all-ages show, Ryuki's very concept is horrifying, and Faiz routinely has people get stabbed in the heart and then dissolve into sand.

But yeah, Kamen Rider is a show that's always had fans of varying age groups and it usually tries to do something to cater to all of them (usually - Fourze was intentionally aimed mainly at younger kids to cheer them up after the earthquake and Fukushima crisis).

its like the fact all sentai pre ginga man were consider more as a family show then a kids show due to they were shown in the aftoon where familys can watch it along with there kids. When gingaman aired they switched there time slot to the mourning and that when they made it a full on kids morning block.

Dat Henshin.lol

You have to remember one important rule: Japan is not America. They don't coddle their children near as much as we do in the states. So they can get away with 'Damn' 'Ass' 'Hell' And violence and death in shows aimed towards a younger skew. But Kamen Rider, and Sentai, also very smartly market themselves to an adult collector. Something Power Rangers has finally started taking a cue from. Look at Gokaiger. How many kids knew what GoRanger was before Gokaiger?

There are days I want to move to Japan. Then I remember I hate flying.

really?

[Shaokahn]Shin wins! FATALITY![/Shaokahn]

I agree with all that,especially the highlighted statement.lol

Oh goodness, Shin! There's mature, and there's taking things too far. I guess I'm happy it was just a small chapter of the Kamen Rider saga, but that's a level of "maturity" that I simply can't stand.

Yeah, it was actually really sweet. Increased my already excellent opinion of Fourze. Here's the original blog post detailing this: http://aesirsubs.wordpress.com/2012/...s-final-words/

Couldn't have said it better myself

I know right? Everytime the show Shin in a movie I think to myself "why? I would treat Shin the same way Bandai and Sunrise treat G-Savior"

Yes, I consider Shin to be the G-Savior of Kamen Rider.

That is sweet...*manly tears*

Probably because Shin was very much a pet project for Ishinomori. It was kind of his ultimate vision of what he wanted Kamen Rider to be - more monstrous and insectoid. He even has a cameo in the film.

Censorship tends to reflect the times. For an American example take the Great Mouse Detective. I watched it last night and there's so much smoking in it. That would not be allowed today. Japan is similar, but have a different set of rules. If you took most of the Showa or early Heisei era shows and tried to make them now, the shows (some shows more than others) would have to have changes made to work with the current rules.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Bandai is gaining more control every year "to sell toys." I understand why this is, but I do not like it. In this age of digital media, it's easy to watch a show without even needing a TV. TV ratings don't have as high of a value as they once did. Enter toy sells. If the show can't get good ratings, it can get good toys sells. Most likely because the show is still being watched (thus advertising the toys), just not on TV. Bandai is gradually making these shows (both Kamen Rider and Sentai) more kid friendly and about the toys resulting in the shows being full of gimmicks rather than a focus on characters and plot.

As for SH Figuarts, adult toy collectors aren't nearly as frowned upon in Japan as the US so there's a market for Figuarts to work with.

Oh...so it's basically The Skull Man.

No, Skullman is completely different from Shin. It's kind of an insult to even compare them.

But...wasn't Skull Man what Ishinomori originally intended, but Toei requested he change it to a bug theme to be more kid friendly?

I've been thinking. There is so much in KR you could never get away with on American television. Before you even get to the cuss words. Cops dying, people dying, the mature subject matter of the dialogue and plots.

Though some part of me does hope, one day, some how, we get Hibiki as an import.

I assumed the swearing was always like poetic license for subbers. They obviously know the audience/downloader is going to be older than the original intended market so why not make it a bit more edgy and real. That or it's a Japanese idiom that does roughly mean that 'swear word'

No, it's the word. Japan is more liberal than America, remember.

Hmmm , maybe. I'm going to have dig into this issue at some point for my dissertation anyway. But it can't just be that the Japanese let their kids run around calling each other bastards.

No one's saying that. But Japanese television can get away with aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalot more than we can.

Definitely, through all of the strict social norms and conservatism.

There's nothing wrong with the words.
You have to remember, there is no almighty Webster going around telling other countries that certain words are taboo.
The connotations of a word here doesn't hold the same weight in Japan. There it's just a word. It's not Japan being lax, it's just our culture assuming that curse words here are curse words there, too.
It's kinda like a Jamaican assuming bumbaclot is a curse word everywhere.

Basically: Curse words aren't universal or multilingual things.

I'm more inclined to agree with RiderSkyward about it possibly being a substitute, simply because I find a lot of anime to swear in English as a means of getting it through, while you'll still find words that are bleeped out (Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt was a prime example of this).

I don't speak Japanese so I'm not authority, but thought it was worth mentioning :lol Plus, Jin has swore in English twice on Go-Busters now.

Yeah, it might hit an English-speaker as odd when Jin says "Oh shit" in Gobusters, but the fact of the matter is just that people around the world don't feel the same way about it.

What has the world come to when Matrix makes sense :lol

You might just be in an alternate dimension. Tell me, is Sun Vulcan commonly heralded as an amazing show?

I didn't really get it across well, but my point was more, is what the subbers actually translate to bastard actually a Taboo/swear/cuss in Japanese? Obviously words carry different meanings in most parts of the world, like wanker. Or Jin saying shit in English. Heck it even extends beyond language, like the peace/V sign, if its done the wrong way round, is considered swearing in England.

Anyway I'm drifting of course. To settle it, we're saying japanese kids tv shows contain Japanese taboo words?

Unless one of us speaks fluent Japanese, we can't verify that the words they're saying would also be considered "Taboo" in Japanese, and it's not just the subbers placing English curse words in.

Same here. Also since Over-Time seems to use swear words less often than TV-Nihon

True

Also true

It's probably going to be destroyed. Matrix has become the very thing he hates...Sekai no Hakaishi

Onore MatorikusuBeasto!

^_^

If I ever destroy the world, I'll have solace in knowing I'll take all of you with me.