Why do some people want to make PR Dark and Gritty?
 

Seriously, why? It is a kids show and it shouldn't be turned into something more. A guy on RB said that dark shows have more of an edge, well I don't think small kids want it to be like that. That guy thinks it should have blood rushing out, drug issues, sex etc. So why? Why make a little kids show dark and gruesome?

I think the wanting more of an edge is understandable. It doesn't have ti be as intense as the Japanese versions, but I think some edge would be nice. The show caters to kids, but it sticks to that way too much at times and can make it hard for the older fans to stay into it, even if they enjoy more childish programming. I think if they gave it a slight edge, it would give the show a more mature feel to help keep in the adult fans and if handled smartly, would challenge the kids to think about what they just saw and not just digest it as "BAM PIFFF POW!"

Agreed. I think LR, TF and RPM were perfect ways to do it. But like I say he (and the guys who created that fan film)wants it even more dark.

In Space, Lightspeed Rescue, and Time Force (never saw RPM so can't really comment on it) were perfect examples of Power Rangers staying child friendly but also giving it a slight edge. In Space had the whole invasion, Ligthspeed had demons as the main villains who partook in some almost Satanic methods, and Time Force was, well Time Force.

You don't need blood, drugs, sex, and all of that other stuff to be edgy. In the case of Power Rangers, making it more mature from a story point of view can probably do it enough. Blood use in children's programming is completely different here then in Japan, and Power Rangers is a show which has rarely ever feature it. I could see the drugs and sex ideas if they do more teenage high school based shows, but why? I mean drugs yeah, push how bad they can be home. But sex? Guys this is Power Rangers, not a stupid ABC Family original crappy teen show. I'm all for children learning about sex and what not, but this is a case to where it just isn't needed. If you want sex in Power Rangers, read fanfiction.

To be honest, it's because some fans can't understand that the show can't grow up with them.

Because a lot of the audiences for these shows are teenagers, teenagers who think they are more mature and grown up than they actually are. They think gratuitous violence and sex = maturity, which only highlights their immaturity. And their insecurity.

Tokusatsu especially is a genre that just doesn't do dark and gritty well, you can't make something so inherently goofy dark. No matter how hard they try.

Yeah, these shows an be mature in a way without being 'dark and gritty'. Billions of civilian deaths don't make a show any more deep than one that features everyone living happily in the sunshine. If anything, it makes a show look like it's trying too hard.

Well at least in terms of serialized saturday morning tokusatsu. 'Cause wouldn't Garo classify as dark? And the various giant monster tokusatsu that, while still retaining some 50's b-movie goofery, also contain a deeper message.

Yes and no. GARO had a LOT more out of suit fighting, than it did in suit fighting and there was a lot more focus on armour than there was spandex and rubber. I'm not saying GARO gets a free pass, there are lots of gratuitous aspects in GARO that just don't work because of its genre. But I could swallow the macabre fantasy elements of GARO a lot better than when say...Kuuga was punching a porcupine in the face while blood flew everywhere probably because GARO is a lot less confined by tokusatsu trappings than the big three.

Kaiju movies are less "Dark" and more "Mature" (When they're not about dinosaurs suplexing lobsters, that is)
They're inherently goofy, regardless of the message they're trying to get across, though.

People need to remember that Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers, Super Sentai, and even Kamen Rider, all exist for one reason. Sales. Kamen Rider gets away with more mature themes. Super Sentai has become more light-hearted recently. And MMPR only ever existed as a vehicle to sell plastic toys. Which means, primarily that they need to get kids watching those screens and begging parents for them. Scaring them off with dark, and even some mature, themes isn't the way to go about doing that. Look at Lord Zedd. When he first appeared, slowly turned on his throne, stroking his snake, parents saw him as way to dark and they made him more of a typical MMPR bad guy. A male Rita.
I wish they would put more of an effort into storytelling and characters, things you can do easily without making it darker or even more mature, but I don't see it happening. Which is sad. Look at how well Avatar did for Nick and that had some mature themes in there. So you'd think they would push for Saban to try a little harder.

Also don't forget they're using the full-scale invasion angle from In Space again now in Super Megaforce (Cough) THE ARMADA! (Cough)

As everyone remembers at the end of Megaforce, The Armada showed up and just started blasting everything in sight, and of course the main plot of Super Megaforce is to stop said invasion.

I think it comes from a combination of arrogance, embarrassment, low self-esteem, and lack of maturity.

Many fanboys, as they get older, become embarrassed (whether they admit it or not) that they still enjoy a property clearly made for children. It's only natural. I feel a twinge of it sometimes too.

But instead of accepting the property for what it is -- childish elements and all -- or moving on to more grown-up interests, certain extreme fanboys arrogantly insist that the property change to suit their grown-up preferences (i.e., the addition of sex, drugs, and gore).

Unwilling to change themselves, they insist that the world change to suit them. But that's a highly immature stance -- obviously the world doesn't revolve around a small minority within an already niche fanbase.

I theorize that this insistence is partly inspired by low-self esteem. The fans in question rally hard for the changes so they can tell their peers, "See? My main passion in life isn't for kids at all! There's sex and drugs and ultra-violence! It's not embarrassing for me to like this show! Now, please stop looking at me like I'm a weirdo." If those fans were more secure, they probably wouldn't care what other people think of their hobbies.

Whenever I see suggestions that a kids' property be "darker," I always wonder if the suggester ever understood (or ever actually liked) the property in the first place.

Hmm, I see. Gonna have to look into it when I get a chance.

Well yeah, I agree for the most part. Some of them can come across as pretty bleak though.

If they could at least match the tone they had in In Space-Time Force, they would be fine. And having just re-watched Sace and Lost Galaxy...they got away with a shitload in Lost Galaxy and still kept it kid friendly.

Also, this. ^^

And this! ^^

Grimdark =/= Mature

The sign of a mature show, is one that is able to have a profound impact on you, without the need for cheap devices. And a show that is entirely fun, energetic and positive is just as likely to impact, as a show otherwise. Even moreso perhaps these days, in the Nolan era.

It's a logical fallacy:

If a Power Rangers season is dark and gritty it is good.
If a Power Rangers season is lighthearted and fun, it sucks.
Thus Turbo is irredeemable crap and RPM is divine providence.

This type of thinking is bullshit because Turbo is just very mismanaged but still good and RPM is a bit too dark for the franchise and and might have alienated kids if Disney let it air at a decent hour.

You all know I don't exactly love In Space. But I'll give you it was one of the most mature series' under Saban. In fact almost everything after that was. Lost Galaxy, Lightspeed, Time Force. Time Force drew blood during fights which surprised me. Something I wish Saban would return to, like all of you.

I think I might have had a septuple take :lol
I didn't anticipate anyone ever saying something like that before.

RPM is an example of what a Power Rangers series can be when you're not worried about next season or toy sales. Disney knew they were losing the series and pretty much went "Screw it, do whatever.". And it all worked out.

Turbo didn't do well at any rate, though so isn't it hard to say?

And there had never been a real 'dark and gritty' PR season. I've never thought RPM was as dark as people say it is, aside from the post apocalyptic setting. Do I think it's one of the best? Yeah. But not cause PEOPLE ARE DEAD.

I've yet to re-watch it but from what I remember of it, it's still leagues behind Lost Galaxy in terms of pushing "dark" content.

I think I've heard that apparently Lost Galaxy was at one point a big hit on Vortexx and was one of the old PR series they've showed the most.

Kamen Rider always been known to be more darker and serious then Super Sentai. I know Den-O and Fourze have been campy, but they still had their serious moments. I think Super Sentai being dark does not sell well in Japan because Sentai always been known to be light hearted and campy in Japan. Some people believe JAKQ and Go-Busters bombed because they were too dark for younger kids.

Gaim being the example for that one.

The darkest show in PR history is easily Time Force which is ironically probably the maturest. I was really surprised the villain was original to the show, given the kind of themes his involvement in the show added to the whole thing. That was some adult shit.

Also you guys all know how I feel about Rider compared to Sentai, Rider blows sentai out of the water and then some in basically every regard.

Yeah, Rider is indefinitely superior to Sentai to me, as well.

Same here. I feel it's because most Kamen Rider series have enough aspects that viewers of all ages can enjoy.

I've called Turbo mismanaged plenty of times before. :lol And RPM, while awesome, feels more like a primetime action drama in hindsight rather than a PR season.
Is that bad? I don't know. Personally, I feel that style would be better for an American Rider series.
Which is probably why it doesn't feel traditionally "PR." (And probably why Disney never aired it.)
I wonder what RPM would have been like if it wasn't the last Disney season...

Turbo did well enough to warrant In Space.

And I agree, the near extinction of all life on earth does not make RPM good, the character interactions and development make it good. Ziggy risked his life to help the less fortunate, Summer realized all that glitters is not gold, Flynn achieved his dream of being a real hero, Scott proved his valor and merit to his father and left his late brother's shadow, Dillon was basically cyber-Andros in a muscle car, and K reconciled her hand in the creation of an evil.

Man I really wanna watch RPM again.

Well as Locke said earlier in this thread a good amount of his fandom is made up of both adults and teens.

Now for teens for a story to be dark there needs to be, blood, sex, and drugs involved just so kids can learn "Say no to drugs!", or "Don't get into fights or your parents will ground you!" (Because if the parents of the power rangers found out they were the power rangers they would be grounded for eternity lol).

Now as for the maturity aspect for PR, people think DEATH!=Maturity but if it doesn't do anything for the character then, it's pointless to include death. Now another thing of the maturity, people think Sentai is more "dark" and some of the older ones are, but it all boils down to the language and how it's translated, since when people hear things like Zyuden Sentai Kyoryuger, they are like awesome! But they hear Dino Charge they're like lame! Even though if they knew that Zyuden Sentai Kyoryuger translates to Electric Beast Squad Dinosaur Ranger they'd be like still cool so they don't look dumb.

At the end of the day it's all about what they do, now I've never seen RPM, Time Force or most of PR for that matter but from what people say about them they sound great.

Now all in all as others have said it boils down to how mature the viewer is, whether or not if they are embaresed about being in this fandom or not. Now I got into PR to see the effects of the Fights, Zords etc. So I basically just said what others have said.

I think all the series needs is to not talk down to its audiences. That's mature enough to me.

This, precisely this.

Like Time Force! :D

Pretty much.

Exactly. I don't mind PR taking itself seriously but nor super dark. I loved TF and RPM. Sentai isn't dark, but a bit more serious(Carranger and some of Kyoryuger excluded)it doesn't talk down to the audience and has good actors. The only thing I thought was to"dark or serious" was "The Recue Mission" in LG. PR shouldn't be dark or gritty but it should respect the audience.

The days of respecting fans young and old died with the Disney era and RPM, I'm afraid. If they at least stop talking down to us in Dino Charge, I think I'll be a little nicer to when talking about Neo-Saban.

But hey, they are finally improving with Super Megaforce, and if they stay true to their trend, then the later half of SM will get even better, and the quality will gradually rise...one can hope.

Exactly. What I would love for the PR franchise to do is take a look at a show like the new TMNT. It doesn't talk down to its audience, handles mature themes without going the blood and guts route, and has stuff in there that parents/adults can enjoy while still catering to the kiddies.