Should I sub Den-O?
 

Hey there. PikaMaster11 of PMLG-Fansubs here. If you read the title if this thread, you'd know what I'm about to ask.

Is subbing Den-O worth it?

There are some shows and movies that have only been subbed by TV-Nihon. I believe Den-O is currently being scrubbed by someone else (I think it's Midnight Crew) but they're not very far and it seems the project is low priority.

I've also noticed that the following shows have only been fully subbed by TV-Nihon (not in any particular order):
Kamen Rider Kiva
Kamen Rider The Next (Not really a show...)
Kamen Rider The First (It's licensed, though)
Kamen Rider Kabuto
Kamen Rider Hibiki
Kamen Rider Blade
Kamen Rider 555
Kamen Rider Ryuki

So basically what I'm asking is: Should I sub Den-O? If not, then which Kamen Rider season should I sub? Also, would it be worth canceling one of my other subs in order to do it?

If you'd like to help, what is really need is for someone to seed a torrent for Bunny Hat's raws (It doesn't matter who does it or which torrent it is as long as it's in the above list).

If you have any other usable raws (meaning they are of a high quality [720p] and preferably DVD), then don't hesitate to PM me about it.

Also, please keep this thread civilized.

Just my personal two cents. But I don't quite understand the reasoning behind subbing something that another group has already done with fairly good video rips. Does their sub of Den-O have it's issues? Yes. But there are plenty of shows that need a scrub or new video rips more than Den-O. Hibiki tops the list for shows that need higher quality raws in my opinion. If you can track higher quality raws down then I'd suggest doing it.

MCS abandoned their scrub years ago. If you really want to scrub a series Den-O wouldn't be a bad choice as the TVN translation is really buggy and full of untranslated Japanese. It's probably their overall worst script for a Kamen Rider series (the Onore TVN tumblr has dozens of examples of errors from it).

I'll also agree with Den-O that Hibiki is in desperate need of a redo. The script isn't as bad, but the video quality is atrocious. Blade is the only other Rider show TVN has done with that poor of visual quality, but NDA has started redoing that (although there hasn't been a new episode in months, so I'm not sure what's going on with that).

Either way, I think there's a demand for any show to get a non-TVN option. I'm not sure I'd suspend your other projects for it, though - that's a call you'd have to make personally.

I mean, I'm fine with doing anything, really. If no one else shares their input, then I'm fine with doing Hibiki.

Okay, so I was thinking about doing Blade... I think I'll watch an episode or two of each series that's been mentioned to see which really needs it.

In this case, it seems Hibiki is the one I'll be doing (although I hated the changes midway through the series). I think what I'll do is obtain some good raws for the entire series and I'll begin once they're all done downloading.

Could anyone point out a place to get Hibiki raws? (I'm not sure if Bunny Hat has some, but I'll check.)

I personally think Blade and Hibiki should be top priority to sub. I believe Nihon did HD versions of Den-O, so there is no need to worry about that right now. Blade and Hibiki, on the other hand, use poorly done TV rips with <by today's standards> poor video encodes. NOt to mention I swear that some of their Blade episodes are from alternative sources as a few episodes look horrible compared to others.

So it seems Hibiki has been encoded by Bunny Hat (10-bit) but I'm pretty sure it needs seeding.

Could anyone help with that?

This, a thousand times this. Blade and Hibiki are the shows that need the most overhauls in both translation and video. The TV-Nihon videos for these shows are downright unwatchable.

For the record: While I do not like TV-N in general, their Den-O and Kabuto subs are still watchable. Blade and Hibiki is definitely were the focus should be to resub old shows.

Bunny Hat also has Blade. I'd help seed them if I had them.

No. There is literally no point in subbing Den-O. This isn't like Blade or Hibiki where the video quality isn't the best and needs an upgrade nor is it a series that isn't even fully subbed. Focus on something like that instead of a series fully subbed with a good video stock.

My advice - sub what you enjoy. This fandom can be a fickle bunch at times so it's better you sub something you like and finish it rather than try to slog your way through something you don't for others. Especially if you suddenly decide to drop it and then have people moaning at you for not completing it.

If you think Den-O needs better subs, sub Den-O. I agree it's not really a series that should be the highest of priorities, but there are plenty of people out there who'd appreciate a TVN alternative.

I think Blade and Hibki are in desperate need of scrubs, but that's just me. If you really really really really want to do Den-o then go for it. I don't have a problem with actual Tv nihon subtitles, hell I even endured Blade's terrible video quality, but those two are in top priority if its something only TVN did.

Thanks, you guys, for the input! I've decided that what I'll do is Hibiki. It seems to be the most wanted and it looks like a great series to do. After that, I'll begin Blade and I'll go from there.

Now, if you'd like, you can share your opinion on what style you would prefer it to be (literal or liberal, typeset or not typeset, heck, even the naming style [Western vs Japanese order]).

I'd like a full translation ala Overtime, none of that "integrity of the Japanese" shit. It even annoys me when they don't translate Rider names, or equipment, I love how Aesir did Zenith and Triumphant.

I'd be cool with a new sub of Den-O if there's better quality raws to work off of then when TVN did theirs, if you do another series though then Hibiki please.

I completely agree with this.

This is your answer:

Not knocking your opinion, nor am I trying to start another fan sub war thread. Just giving PikaMaster11 my personal opinion like he asked of us.

This is the kind of over translation I can't stand. Taking everything so literally like that just pains me. Translating proper names for things just because "english > japanese" makes no sense to me. I get that some subbers feel like it's more proper to do so, but all it does is remove me from the episode.

Not trying to knock you either but I dunno why people with your opinion can't separate objects and people. William is called William, but he isn't a William, he is a human. A lamp however IS a lamp, so it can be called whatever you like.

Kachidoki isn't the name of the seed, it's the Japanese word for the seed and Triumphant is the closest English translation of that word. Kouta however IS a name, so I'm happy for that to be left alone and isn't changed to I dunno, Garry.

Glad to hear.

Well actually, what I'm thinking is not translating like Rider names (You have to admit, "Kamen Rider Sound" is a little bit weird-sounding [see what I did there?]). I'm not sure if I'll translate equipment or not.

Oh yeah I perfectly get that, Gaim is Kouta's superhero alter ego so the name should be left alone. But power ups, alternative abilities and weapons are all objects, not people and thus in my opinion, should not be translated.

I would enjoy a more complete sub of Den-O, but I'm cool with Hibiki, too.

It kind of gets annoying when Momo would do a variation of his catch phrase with "Ore [Something] Sanjou" and the added word wouldn't be translated until the 3rd or 4th occasion he uses it.

My favourite was their appearance in Decade where the actors said more English than the translation translated.

If I end up doing Den-O then what I'd do is actually translate "Ore, Sanjou" (no offense to TV-N). Same thing with any of the variations within the show.

I kind of threw together this promo (the last line isn't translated as it's supposed to be a promo for my project, not the show). It's timed to Bunny Hat's "Hibiki 00".

Link to DDL

Also, I was thinking... what kind of typesetting would you guys prefer?

Completely Clean Style: No typesetting at all. Text on signs is represented by a line at the top of the screen.
Over-Time Style: No typesetting for dialogue, but fonts on signs and stuff are typeset.
Aesir Style: Has a script with typesetting, and one without.
TV-Nihon Style: Not necessarily vectors and karaoke everywhere, but does have fonts and typesetting for dialogue.

No matter which style I end up choosing, I will most likely have karaoke on the opening theme.

TVNs graphics are so pointless, but I gotta say I kinda dig it.

Don't forget time-consuming. I personally would love to be able to do effects like those, but I have no ability to and plus, it takes me long enough to release without the graphics.

And I dislike that. It annoyed me to no end with HNT's subs of DaiRanger when they would translate RyuuSeiOh to Dragon Star King and stuff. Plus, they translated the freaking Saima Clan as Lesser Demon or something like that.

Not everything needs to be translated, names being the biggest thing.

Since the mechs don't have names, I was happy for the literal translation like Dragon Star Lord. Those are words I can associate meaning too, Ryuseioh is a bunch of letters.

So long as you keep "Oni" instead of translating it into "Ogre" or something, I'm fine with whatever you go with.

But... That is a name.

And that's the one bit of input I have - whatever you do, don't touch the names. I'm still cringing in Gaim or in Gaim discussions every time I see "Ornac" instead of "Gridon."

While Den-O might indeed be the worst I've seen from TVN translation-wise, it's still high quality so I'm not sure there's all that much demand for it...

Same here. Gridon being "ornac" is still one of the worst examples of overtranslation I've seen. I knowit works for some people, but stuff like that really takes meo ut of it. And now I'm done beating the dead horse.

Please do Hibiki though. If in any way you can get higher quality raws to work with I would LOVE to see Hibiki redone.

Yeah, I'll be keeping the names, maybe with a .txt file to explain what all of them mean.

I also believe I'll be doing Aesir-style typesetting where I provide a clean script too, but it's up to you guys.

I'm downloading Bunny Hat's DVD rips of Hibiki, which is pretty much the hightest quality raws I can find as of right now.

While I'm not the biggest fan of OT's propensity to over-translate at times, I always thought this was fine. It's the easiest way to keep the flow going. It, hopefully, delivers the joke in the exact same manner a Japanese viewer experienced it. That's the sort of work that would need to be done on a series like Den-O - which OT have said they're actually working on.

Well, if OT doesn't get to doing Den-O, I probably will (after Hibiki and Blade, most likely).

Keep me in the loop Pika, and we'll be sure to promote the heck out of what you're doing.

Did ONORE stop subbing Den-O? I've got their first 4 episodes (that I haven't watched yet).

That's great! Thanks a lot!

It might go slow in the beginning due to me getting things set up, but since there won't be any karaoke for over half of the series, that will significantly speed things up.

Here's my advice, if the series has to deal with any Japanesey type stuff (i.e. the stuff from Hibiki, warriors from Gaim) leave the attack names, Rider names, equipment and weapon names untranslated . Maybe its just me, but I find it really fucking weird for a Japanese styled superhero to have armor subbed as "Triumphant" if its Kachidoki. Like, no bitch! Its a fucking samurai, leave his armor name as it is!

I think you should leave Rider names untranslated in general though. I don't have as much of a problem with Ornac as maybe other people, but I still don't like it. But if you translate Ryuki as "Dragon Warrior" or some shit, I will murder someone.

TV-Nihon styled subs please asides from the fancy graphics.

But RyuuSeiOh IS the name of the mech!! Daizyujin IS the name.

Are you saying you want fansubbers to call someone Light whenever a character is named Hikari?

But Gaim's a fucking samurai. I don't get why they translate words associated with heavily influenced Japanese lore or culture. If you wanted to re-translate Kiva DoGaBaKi form, go ahead, because that's a longass unpronounceable title anyways.

I was thinking... what if I have a .txt file with notes about all the Rider/Attack/Weapon names as well as Japanese culture things that need to be explained so you can read them at your leisure.

Would that be acceptable?