Why they have Kamen Rider using a power that was meant for evil?
 

Come on! They're Superhero! Why they have to use evil power? They're Batman of Japan! Batman use his own technology. Not evil weapon

The message Kamen Rider always had is imho that it doesn't matter who you are and where you get this power from, but how you use it and what you want to achieve with it.
A lot of (main) Kamen Riders are on the brink of turning evil or losing control, but they ultimately always decide on using their power to help others.
I think this was also mentioned in the two special episodes of Wizard.

^Smart woman. And she's right. Kamen Rider, the original Kamen Rider, was created from evil. Shocker kidnapped Hongo, brainwashed him, and turned him into a cyborg killing machine they were going to call Kamen Rider. But he was saved before that happened, just not before he was made into Kamen Rider. So with his mind intact he set out to dismantle Shocker.

And that makes for a much more dynamic story. Overcoming the evil that created what you use to save lives. Look at Kouta, our current Kamen Rider. He's overcoming the evil that created the Lockseeds and his Driver from the very first episode. Because he knows that destroying two-thirds of humanity isn't a plan. It's genocide.

Its one of those common themes of Rider that persists throughout the years and I'm fine with it. Symbolism of what good can do with the same power as evil could do.

Second thread involving vin13ish lashing on something Toku related, okay, am I the only one who thinks a mod or admin should issue him a warning :confused:?

I think this topic is far from lashing Toku-related, he's just asking why the Kamen Riders fight for justice when the powers they obtain are from evil sources.

The way Rider powers work and how effective they are is on a season by season basis for me. When it is an average Joe, given the power to destroy the world and they make the choice to champion for good I find it a really great if unoriginal story.

Where I find it difficult in Rider shows, is when a character is meant to be "special" or specifically chosen for some kind of giant organisation or ancient McGuffin and I'm just left wondering why they'd pick someone so ordinary. I mean correct me if I'm wrong, but have we ever had a Rider who actually looked like he could handle himself in a real fight? Or run a marathon? And have we ever had a Rider with a genuine military background or some kind of specialised training that suits them for their role? Other than Oren, I can't think of anyone.

Plus why we should care if they're championing over the desire to just use the powers as they are intended if they're meant to be so special in the first place?

Even more than just Kouta. Haruto's, Shinji's, Kenzaki's, and Ryotaro's powers came from their series' monsters, Gentaro, Eiji, and Shotaro's powers came from the same source as their villains', and there's a lot of Riders who were monsters themselves or created by their villains.
It's a big part of many of their stories.

Yup it all dates back all the way to the original show. The whole thing of using the Villians powers for good is just a staple of Kamen Rider and part of the franchise. Having a Rider that has no connections to the villains in that regard just wouldnt be the same.

I agree with others that bring up the point that it makes for a more interesting story. Also time and time again you see stories where the moral is that power corrupts people but in a way with Kamen Rider its like no power doesn't corrupt even if it furthers evil intentions its just that power itself is neutral in alignment and it depends on the person themselves if they use it for good or evil. At least that's how I see it.

Not just that but also taking your life into your own hands. The original Rider was created for destruction. The most powerful Kaijin under Shockers control but instead Hongo chose to fight the good fight and oppose Shocker and their diabolical intentions.

Pretty much anyone from Hibiki, G3 (sorta), most of the Blade Riders, IXA, and I would assume Birth and Meteor are all trained in some form or another that makes them qualified to be Riders in the first place. Though I guess that's also one of Rider's "things" - you give power to ordinary people and see what they do with them. Granted, I would love to see this executed ala Ryuki more, where the Riders are basically out to do their own thing more often than not rather than be purely focused on the greater good.

Hibiki, Birth and G3 are all great examples and unsurprisingly Birth and Hibiki are both favourites all mine. The Blade Riders, however, all looked like super models rather than the actual trained officials they were meant to be and Meteor only worked because his looks were supposed to be deceiving. Usually a character like that is supposed to be taken at face value which is where it becomes ridiculous.

Does the Blade Riders' appearance really hold relevance? They were still trained to work and operate as Riders.

I just wish more Riders looked the part more often, it's part of the illusion for me.

But every Rider series has its characters look like super models or being good looking people. That's something about television you have to live with.

Kenzaki and Tachibana were trained and eventually Mutski was too. Hajime's entire existence was to fight, so I think he would know a thing or two.

But what about Date? I think he looks better than most of the Riders in Blade, and he was a soldier prior to becoming a rider, like Oren.
Good looking people can be soldiers, too.

Anyway, if I recall Kabuto correctly, I'm pretty sure 2 of TheBee's users were also military trained.

But skinny boy band lookalikes are fewer and much further between in American action shows not including those intentionally with casts like that or Power Rangers.

He was ripped, though. And looked old enough to have experience in what he was doing.

Are we literally having an argument over the masculinity of the Blade Riders being compared to what the show tells us of thier skills?"These guys are trained," "Uh no they aren't because they don't look masculine enough," its fiction, no matter hiw grounded youre tryong to make it, there's still going to be some radically fantasticak element in there and move on.

Most Actors that play Superheros in american productions arent 20 years old either. Of course most Characters in Toku look extremely young and not as "hardened" as for example Christian Bale in Batman. Thats because they are betwen 17 and 22 Years old most of the time.

You are correct. Yaguruma and Kageyama both were TheBee and worked for Zect as soldiers, so they had military training. Kagami was also TheBee for a short time and while he probably didn't have as much, he probably had some training as well.

Oh yeah. I forgot about Kagami.

That isn't an excuse.

The fact is if they had the actual training they wouldn't look that soft or skinny, televisual stories are an illusion and I have no illusion the Blade Riders have had any training because they look fresh off of the autotune machine.

Would you guys mind moving this discussion into a fitting topic instead flooding this one? I think this has moved a bit too far from what the original discussion was about.

The way I see it, Kamen Riders gaining their powers from evil but ultimately using it for good is just a really good story for me.

It's part of why Ryuki is one of my favorite series. Everything in the show is telling Shinji that he should just join the fight like the rest of the Riders, but he refuses to do so. On top of that, Shinji isn't the smartest Rider or the strongest Rider, but his commitment to doing the right thing is what makes him a great protagonist for me.