Is Super Sentai CGI ruining the franchise?
 

I am in no way an old guy who can't get use to CGI I am 21 and very open to the idea but as someone who is a fan of how the Old Godzilla films and Super Sentai shows were shot its really hard to get use to Ninninger. I enjoy Ninninger but it feels like something is missing with all of the crappy CGI effects. They are poorly done and it feels like the didn't even try to make them look decent. I wish there was more wire work and natural acrobatics like in Hurricanger. Nowadays wirework looks amazing because you can erase them in post production and to me it would make sense to take advantage. I don't know maybe i'm being overly negative but I loved the early 90's Sentai up to the early 2000's the most because of their organic feel does anybody else feel this way?

No.

Ninninger has some great practical effects. I'd say that's the least of the show's problems.

I feel you're being too negative. This is akin to "Are pretty boys ruining Super Sentai" with the reasoning that you miss the gruff, strong looking red rangers rather than the current, boy band looking reds.
It all comes down to preference. While the CG is below average, I don't feel it's ruining Sentai. I actually feel it's saving Sentai, helping keep costs from going too high by having to create complex puppets for a few 10 second scenes in an episode.

I love the puppetry and I love the suits. But I don't feel the less than stellar CG is one of Sentai's bigger issues.

Ninninger has great CG AND practical effects.

I absolutely respect everyone's opinion but I just feel like alot of the entertaining aspects of the fight scenes are gone now with the CGI. Remember in Hurricanger the sweet flying through the air on wires? and the real explosions? It just had this awesome organic feel to it. Another question i have that I feel is legit is how come Ultraman X has much better CGI than Super Sentai? You got to figure Super Sentai is made by

TV Asahi
Toei Company
Bandai Visual

and Ultraman X is made by Tsuburaya Productions. I am just trying to figure out why the 3 big companies make less than stellar effects and production compared to one lone company that makes Ultraman. But lets be honest Ninninger has a great story and even though i'm not a fan of the CG its still tons of fun to watch it was just something I wondered if other fans felt the same way.

Ultraman X is going to be a shorter show and they can use their smaller budget more effectively.

Japan is known for having crappy CG anyways. The live action film of Space Battleship Yamato (Star Blazers) from Japan has CG that is close to Hollywood CG, but not quite. To me, I can get pass bad CG if the story and characters are so well done. If I'm so stuck into the story then I won't notice the bad special effects.

Besides I seen much worst CG from Japan then I do in Toei Toku shows. The live action Devilman movie from 11 years ago has CG that looks bad even for Japanese film standers. It looks like early CG from the late 80's/early 90's (pre-Terminator 2 CG).

Ninninger has practical effects?

Actually, I feel that Sentai has kind of improved in its balance of CGI and practical effects. The pre-Gobusters period looked worse, especially in mecha fights. You mentioned that you think they did better in the early 2000s but as early as Gaoranger and Abaranger, the CGI effects for the mecha aren't really that great.

In my opinion, recent shows like ToQger and Ninninger do great practical shots using models with their mecha. They still use CGI heavily, and it is sometimes jarring when it happens, but the close up practical shots of the mecha puppetry are wonderful to behold.

Anyway, I don't think it's one of the franchise's biggest problems, and by no means will it ruin the franchise. Sentai (and Power Rangers, by extension) have used average CGI for years! :lol

I do agree with you though, that Tsuburaya often has more polished effects. As ElConvoy says, it may be because they have fewer episodes to focus on and that results in better budget planning.

Personally the CGI in Sentai doesn't bother me too much. I can't think of many times were I thought the CGI looked absolutely horrible or ruined a scene for me. I generally think it looks okay and think nothing more of it.

I loved the Gaoranger CGI.

I don't think it's ruining the franchise. Non-coherent, let's throw in everything we can think of and worry about story/character development later, seasons like Ninninger is what's 'ruining' Sentai. Personally, I prefer a live-action Gattai like Kyoryuger. But CGI isn't ruining anything.

They do make for awesome toys though. :D

I think ninninger does a good blend of CGI for the flashier things like transformations and finishers, but their use of practical effects is nice when they do use it. I love seeing the marus run around and interact with stuff.

I also like how ninninger's plot revolves more around its characters than the story.

Toei's CGI has more of a hindrance on Kamen Rider than Sentai IMO

I think the problem with the CGI though is when you will have this CGI animal running but then you just see a toy head hit a monster because they look completely different from each other.

Yeah, but see that's only a problem for an "adult" viewer. Their target audience is children, and hell, I know if I were a kid, I wouldn't go "hey, why do they look different" I'd go, "Holy cow, that was awesome!"

The idea of Super Sentai CGI ruining the franchise is just ludicrous.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only show that used CGI really heavily was Gobusters right? I mean they still use a lot of practical special effects.

They still use quite a bit of CGI and Green Screen. Times change and with CGI it's iffy to see how much the series will use. It's time saving when using it, and when the show is done they don't have to find place to store that stuff.

Although I will say that sometimes it can look pretty bad and take me out of the scene. Haven't seen a lot of Ninninger since to me the show sucks, but I'm sure they equal out the use of practical and digital.

You and I are disagreeing on that.

If you need proof look at nearly every Kamen Rider vehicle. And the OOO fight where he first gets Shuata.

They had no choice because of the glorious monster Go-Bust-Oh was.

The CGI is actually pretty bad sometimes, in my opinion. I wouldn't say that it's "ruining" the franchise or anything, but it's definitely not one of its finer points either. I do think Super Sentai could positively benefit from using better CGI or using CGI less altogether, though.

I agree, and that's often because of Sentai's general flashiness that it looks less out of place. Rider's more realistic setting makes the CGI more jarring.

Actually, I wasn't a big fan until I saw King Shurikenjin in person and then proceeded to buy its components. Now I consider them the best Sentai mecha toys I have in my collection.

I completely agree with the idea that Sentai has too much CGI nowadays. One of the reasons I even got into this kind of stuff is because I loved seeing the practical effects. The poor CGI is what keeps me from getting into newer shows, which is a shame, since a lot of the most popular series are the ones that use CGI (Dekaranger, Gekiranger, etc)

However, Ninninger seems to be bringing back a lot of the practical effects, which is why I actually enjoy it. The last newer series I tried watching was Gokaiger and I just couldn't do it, the CGI was too much.

Almost strictly old school for me, but now that i'm starting to get used to the use of CGI through watching Ninninger, I might be able to go back and watch something that has a lot more and enjoy it more.

Gekiranger's CG is underplayed, though, outside of the mecha's finisher.

I never bothered too much about the CGI, to be honest. While I sometimes thought: Oh this would be cool with an actual suit!, I never felt CGI ruined my experience watching toku in general. While it doesn't look as great as practical effects can, it is necessary sometimes as what you can do with practical effects is limited by not only budget, but also the laws of physics. And not all CGI in toku is horrible. There is also some CGI that looks pretty good and adds up to the visual experience a lot.

So no, I don't think CGI ruins Super Sentai. I think it broadens the possibilities.

All of this. I know seeing Dekaranger Robo leaping around buildings would have been cool in practical effects but I imagine at that point the suits would still be rather heavy and hard to manuver in and still keep the illusion that it was a giant robot

I c the problem
 

What's hurting the Super Sentai series is time and creativity, or lack there of. Shinkenger, Goseiger, Gokaiger(maybe), Go-Busters and ToQger have all had a reason or two or more for their lack of viewers and toy sales; some form obvious to very obvious, others a little obvious to not soo much. Samurai, Megaforce and Super Megaforce didn't do soo well neither, but that was the writer's falt as well as the falt of others involved with the 2nd Saban Era/Nickelodeon Era. Sadly, this could badly effect the series completely, but we won't know until the near future.

Who says that Toqger had a lack of viewers and toy sales?

The toy sales of the Toqger action figures did poorly, leading BOJ to change it to the cheaper BOA style molds so that they lose lesser money if Ninninger figures sell poorly like Toqger.

No, it enhances it. A recent example is the debut of Akaninger Chozetsu in Ninninger. As he transformed, rocks were floating around him which helped tell the viewers that this mode was powerful. His punches left marks on a mountain and he broke apart of a mountain as well. Scenes like the floating rocks would be impossible to do with practical effects and the mountain being damaged would cost more than what is allowed in a tokusatsu budget.

But that's just the action figures- also, the action figures generally didn't sell that well for a while.

Yeah the figures are not the meat of the toyline. Its a fact that ToQGers overall sales are around the same amount as Go-Onger and Shinkenger and is considered a success.

Yes, but the fact that BOJ decided to change their action figure molds to the BOA one after Toqger might be telling that the Toqger sales did even poorer than previous series to an extent they found it reasonable to use cheaper molds.

The action figures have not always been that great of sellers in Japan, nor do they really relate to this thread.

I've been thinking about this and changed my opinion slightly. I want more LA gattai's like in Kyoryuger, but realize that it's not always possible. I honestly enjoyed the transformation of AbarenOh from Abaranger. And that wouldn't have been near possible with live action shots. And honestly, I do prefer CGI finishers as well. Otherwise you just get ackward shots of mechs slowly hitting something off camera.

10char

I think Sentai CGI is great when it's used to enhance real-life people and objects. For example, I think it looks super cool when it's used for the human-sized team attacks in Ninninger.

On the other hand, Toei has not yet mastered the art of rendering completely-CGI people and objects. Whenever they try, the result is distracting and ugly. For example, Gokai-Oh in the first episode of Gokaiger is painfully to behold. Castle Terminal in ToQger looks terrible, too.

In recent years, I've noticed that Toei has pulled back when it comes to fully CGI creations in sentai. That doesn't mean they've stopped using them, but they're way less obtrusive than they were in the 00s. (Kamen Rider is a completely different matter -- that show always uses full-CGI robots, and it almost always looks bad.)

Still, even at its worst, bad CGI usually adds to the show's charm. Just like the chintzy rubber monster suits and the cheap spandex hero costumes with visible spark-squibs. The production staff is doing what they can with their paltry budget, and we should admire their ingenuity if nothing else.

Want to try that post again?

There was a different post responding to MrHero's statement that the action figure discussion doesn't relate to the thread, pointing out that he was just providing an answer. Seems he edited it out and removed it.