That Ryuki ending...
 

I just watched the final episode of Kamen Rider Ryuki for the first time.

What the HELL?! (Obviously, SPOILERS follow.)

Okay, I appreciated that this Rider series killed the titular Rider in the next-to-last episode, and that's actually the end of him (as a Rider.) I appreciated that the creators were trying to put some art into the series finale.

But the whole world getting kinda-sorta-reset-but-not? Spectacularly unsatisfying. I might've bought it if they hadn't shown Megumi working at the Ore Journal. She only joined the staff late in the war. The episode posits that we've returned to a time when the Riders are all alive, and in which Shinji and Ren have never met. Megumi being on the Journal staff craps all over that notion.

Asakura got blown up several episodes before the finale... and then was totally fine two episodes later (with no explanation... oh, look, there's a smudge on his cheek) so he could commit suicide-by-police.

Is it Ren who wished everything back to the way it was? Or are we just supposed to assume that some combination of Shirou and his sorta-dead sister are incredibly powerful, insane psychics who can do this sort of thing on a whim? And who the hell is going to wish Asakura back to life?

UGH. I want to love Ryuki as a series, but it kept failing to commit itself to its initially-brave choices. It was full of elements that I liked, which make the elements I didn't that much more frustrating. I don't even know what to blame. I'm guessing that the creators wrestling with the network over content might have been a factor.

I think I'd've liked the series as a whole better if it hadn't used the Cosmic Reset Button at the end. As it is, it appears none of the growth Ren, Shinji, and Kitaoka experienced ever happened, but oh, wait! Yui is also dead, and nobody cares.

*facepalm*

It's basically Shiro & Yui who purge Mirror World from existence by going back in time to help their younger self’s overcome the depression. Which results in the disappearance of Mirror World form the time line, so yes: Nothing Rider-related ever happened.

Ren basically just fulfilled his wish to be reunited with Eri.

And the Megumi thing.. well I just take it that some things are destined to happen. Like Megumi will still be fired by Kitaoka and end up at Ore Journal.

I wouldn’t say all the development for the characters vanished... they just learned it another way.

It wasn’t my ending of choice either. I thought the best way to handle this was that Ryuki won the war and his wish would've been to go back in time so he can rescue Shiro & Yui before their parents go completely crazy. He could also make subtle changes to the time line, like bring Kitaoka to a doctor so his sickness can be cured before it gets serious.

But that's just me, I can live with the ending as is.

There's an alternative ending also, maybe you should check that out.

well...I wouldn't call the alternative an "ending" per say...

Ryuki had some amazing concepts and seemed to follow through with about 85% of it...some things just never went through (the third Survive card for example). I think it could have been stretched to two seasons with all the potential...

the ending is satisfying for me. Ordin do have the power to do some sort of cosmic reset. the multiple ending of Ryuki by 13 riders special did shows that. By using that logic, probably Kanzaki did reset the world for so many times because in the end Yui is never got saved.

And in Ryuki series ending, it shows how Shiro Kanzaki finally accept the inevitability of his sister death and reset it once more to fix things up.

I like the idea of Shiro Kanzaki constantly resetting time to get his ideal result and save Yui, hence the alternate timelines as depicted in 13 Riders and the movie, and then always being thwarted by Ryuki in each timeline.

i might be the only out of use saw knight more the main rider then the title ide for this show

I think the ending was appropriate and satisfying enough. Ryuki is without a doubt one of the most tragic Rider series there are, with one of the highest body counts in the series. In the end I think it was pretty much showing just how terrible everything was as a result of the Rider War (ie, every single Rider died, not to mention all those countless civilians). It was very much a "the only winning move is not to play" kind of thing. Neither of the alternate tellings we see in the special or the movie are any better.

(i think i mainly came to understand this more after Homestuck did the lets-kill-everyone-and-then-retcon-it-because-damn thing too. though i have more negative feelings of how that was done. i think ryuki did it well)

So when the cosmic reset button is employed, it does feel a little like a cop-out, as far as making the series "irrelevant" (not necessarily in terms of mechanics because it was established that Odin can do the time travel thing pretty early on) but I think making it irrelevant was sort of the point. However much growth a few individuals experienced was not worth all the loss of life. (which even affected all who experienced growth because they died anyway) For Yui, who never wanted people to be sacrificed for her sake, and Shinji, who always wanted to stop the fighting, this was the ending they deserved. Shirou finally acknowledging Yui's wish makes for a pretty good ending, imo.

The only thing that bugged me about the ending personally is that I felt it ran too long. The final sequence in the reset world would have been more poignant if they shorted it up a lot and cut some of the antics. But that's just me.

That fade to black halfway through the last episode should've been where it all ended. I still maintain to all new veiwers of the show, just turn it off after that fade. That ending was perfect. Every single character's story was wrapped up flawlessly. Kitaoka got his date and succumbed to his illness, Gorou served him one last time, Asakura was finally taken down by the cops, (and I HATED Asakura. He felt like a bad fanfiction villain on God mode) Kiddo died saving people like he'd always wanted to, and Ren finally achieved the power he'd fought the entire series for. All staged and shot brilliantly. It was excellent and made all the bullshit worth it...

I have no idea why they had to ruin it so. It didn't even make any sense. They all came back after the time reset... but was Asakura not still a criminal? Kitaoka wasn't still sick? And like you said, so many character places were incompatible with a simple reset. It gave a happy, everyone lives ending when it had no business being in the show.

That all sound remarkably apologetic. You've could've made all those points without hitting reset. The show did make all those points without resetting, only to obliterate any point whatsoever.

The thing that doesn't make sense to me is how Ryuki keeps appearing in crossovers even though Ryuki technically doesn't exist anymore, at least not with Shinji as him.


I get that Rider hasn't paid much attention to continuity from the Ryuki-Kabuto era but it still bugs me >_>

Well sure, my view may seem apologetic, but then yours looks to me slightly vitriolic. Something something opinions.

I can't think of any alternate, satisfying conclusions, is the thing. An ending in which everyone is dead and nobody gained anything is not what I would consider to be satisfying...or at least not in the context of this series. From my perspective the point Ryuki was trying to make towards the end there was that there was no point, to any of the conflict. It had great character arcs and plotting, but all those arcs and plots led to everyone being dead. So what was the point? And if the point is just "there is no point, here's a mountain of bodies, good night" it's not really a very good Rider show.

To be fair, I really don't like the ending itself. The actual sequence of Shinji running into all the characters and all that was pretty much completely unnecessary. But the actual reset itself I have no real problems with. It's a logical extension of the time fuckery that had already taken place in the show, and it follows from Yui's pleading with Shirou to stop the war. (which was, well, pretty much all Yui's character arc was. without the reset the Kanzakis have no reason to be in the show as characters)

And yeah, @MaskedRiderAsakura. That bothers me too. A universe in which Kamen Rider Ryuki exists makes no sense in any way.

That's the main problem I had with Ryuki's ending, it was later retconned/contradicted in every Kamen Rider crossover. I hope they somehow explain it but given the fact they still haven't given an official reason as to why both Black and Black RX can be seen fighting alongside each other, I highly doubt it.

In my head canon, the original Kotaro is Black RX and Decade Kotaro is Black.

I thought it was explained in Decade that each Black was from a different universe or point in time (like in the RX movie)?

I'm curious as to whether an attempt to respect Ryuki's ending was one of the factors motivating Decade taking place in Rider world radically different from the ones that aired. Also, save where the original actors are present, this does serve as feasible explanation for the presence of some Riders whose presence shouldn't be possible. (I assume the main factor was casting.)

Ren apparently survives the Rider war, doesn't he? A part of me wondered if the main Rider hadn't originally been intended as Kamen Rider Knight before someone realized the potential for difficulty selling the show in other markets due to the insane Batman resemblance.

I didn't find Asakura's end satisfying at all, given that he appeared to pretty definitively die a few episodes earlier. It makes me wonder at what kind of creative conflicts were behind the show.

I'm also curious as to why the show didn't elaborate on Alternative's different Driver and apparently-synthetic contract monster.

I've yet to watch 13 Riders or the movie. I'm assuming they can be watched in either order, given that they're alternate series endings?

Decade showed that there are two different Alternate Reality worlds where in one, Kotaro Minami is Kamen Rider Black and in another he is Kamen Rider Black RX. The Black RX in Decade is separate from the original Black RX despite being portrayed by the same actor.

But in the main universe which the crossover films take place, they give no explanation as to why both Black and Black RX can be seen fighting together because they are the same person. The only logical explanation is either time travel or Decade Black.

That's pretty much what every fan considers when it comes to Black and Black RX appearing together. It's the only logical explanation, that or time travel.

Yeah, it doesn't matter which order you watch them in. Ryuki Episode Final is an alternate ending and 13 Riders is an alternate origin for Shinji becoming Ryuki and an alternate ending as well.

It works sometimes, but not all of the time. Decade's pretty damn confusing so forgive me if I fudge some stuff up, but I think the Ryuki from All Riders vs Dai-Shocker is the original Shinji Kido, not Shinji Tatsumi.

The series leaves it kinda ambiguous as to whether Ren died or not. We don't know if he succumbed to his injuries or if he was simply taking a well-deserved rest after winning the Rider War.

And I don't think Kamen Rider Knight was intended to be the main Rider. When Ryuki came out, it deconstructed a lot of Rider tropes and played with the audience's expectations. Not only did we see the first instance of an evil Rider in the show, but, to this day, it's the only Rider series I can think of where most of the Riders are undoubtedly evil. Most of the Riders in the series are selfish, hedonistic, excessively violent or just flat-out batshit insane. Then you've got a Rider unsure of what the 'right' thing to do is, which contrasts with the Riders of old simply knowing how to do the right thing. And on top of that, we've got the whole concept of fighting a war that ultimately can't be won. Even if Ren got his wish, it cost him his best friend.

I'd imagine that they wanted to take Rider in a new direction with the series, and gave us a main character who didn't win for once. On top of that, I don't think Shinji surviving the Rider War works nearly as well as Ren winning the Rider War. Ren was always the one dead-set on surviving, Shinji was the one who would gladly give his life to save everyone else, which is what he ended up doing.

I can't reference this to a particular episode, but I swore Shiro said he started the Rider War so he could find the strongest life to give to Yui. Which I thought meant the winner died as well, essentially meaning Ren is dead.

IIRC, by the end Shiro pretty much gave up on the whole Rider War. Odin was designed to be so OP so that he could beat the remaining Rider and claim their life. However, Shiro ended up forfeiting, Odin was eliminated, and Ren was left.


I could be wrong though, it's been a while since I watched Ryuki. Also, TV-Nihon, so I'm sure the subs made things really confusing.

Odin is basically Shiro's way of making sure he could win the War and gain the wish to bring Yui back to life. He does technically forfeit, mostly due to Yui's resistance causing mirrors, and thus Odin to sort of fall apart. So Odin pretty much forfeits as he's dying.

I could almost support a reading of the "reset" that suggests it isn't literally what happens, but rather, it's Ren's fantasy of what happens after he dies/makes his wish -- or even, perhaps, a vision of some sort of afterlife.

But if we're going the literal route, which I do find more convincing...

I think the show painted the Rider War thing as a traumatic experience that broke everyone who participated. Like, pretty much the only development any of the "good" characters underwent was negative -- they struggled with succumbing to distrust, cynicism, and their baser natures. Freeing them of the curse of the Rider War allows their lives to revert to an undeniably better, more hopeful, and more virtuous status quo. A status quo they most certainly earned through seemingly endless physical and emotional torment... even if they don't remember it (although, the show seems to imply that they do remember their connections with each other, on some vague, instinctual/ephemeral, "why-do-I-feel-like-I-know-you?" sort of level).

Without the supernatural interference from Mirror World and the ensuing Rider War, actual nature can resume its course. Kitaoka will die of cancer, sure, but at least he'll go with dignity rather than with wish-fueled desperation. Asakura will remain safely behind bars for his crimes -- instead of breaking out, killing more people, and then committing suicide by cop -- as it always should have been. Shinji can live his carefree and happy-go-lucky life, and Ren can be with his girlfriend. The reset world is how things should be (and, actually, I don't necessarily see it as a happy ending -- it's a very neutral ending, in that, life will still go on for all of them, for better and worse. I mean, characters we've grown to love are doomed to die, or never become friends. That doesn't feel entirely happy to me).

I can see how one might think hitting the reset button invalidates the characters' experiences and makes the show a waste of time... but only if that person fails to understand the show's message. Namely, that The Rider War -- and war in general, probably -- is better off being deleted from the human experience, as it leads to nothing but irredeemable destruction and misery. The show wants to leave us with the notion that conflict for conflict's sake deserves to be erased from existence, and everyone is better off without it.

Maybe it would have been more satisfying if the writers had left the specifics to our imaginations and just faded to black, instead of giving us the details of the reset world. Personally, I don't know how the show fully articulates its themes without showing how the characters' lives are inarguably better without the influence of The Rider War. Obviously, YMMV.

have you guys watching suzumiya haruhi episode of "endless eight.
Ordin is basically haruhi who wants to make sure that he got to save Yui by resetting the world if he failed.
The series is good in a sense that Kanzaki and Yui finally reconcile and decided to end the rider war, and resetting the world once more to fix things up.

I absolutely hated the way the series ended and the whole plot point of the original Kanzaki dying and being the cause for the whole war when I first watched it, but I've grown to appreciate the message that the story gives in going with that ending. If they had decided to just fade to black, then I think that would actually piss off fans even more because it leaves us with a feeling of emptiness. By having a conspicuous ending, the fans who would prefer to just have everything fade to black can at least still imagine/treat the series as having that ending instead.

Wasn't the alternate ending, the movie("Episode Final")?

From what I remember, Yui convinced Shiro to end the war, thus enabling Ren to get the killing blow on Odin. Ren's wish was for Eri to fully recover from the injuries sustained by Darkwing(from when he first merged into the "real(not Mirror)" world). However Ren died from injuries sustained while fighting Odin.

I found the ending to be incredibly sad and I found it hard to predict. Shinji dying was not expected at all. I usually expect the bad ass anti-hero rider to die with a compelling death. That happened later but that usually happens INSTEAD of the main rider dying.

In some way I thought the ending was fitting because time was reset. Mainly because the war itself happened in an altered timeline of Shiro's making. So while Yui convinced him to end the war, technically the war still did happen but the timeline was "fixed", if that makes sense.

What I thought was cool too was that towards the end, we find that Ren does really care about Shinji and that he actually wanted Shinji to live, ultimately. I think it's an indirect admission that he actually wanted Shinji to win the war, as much as he wanted to save Eri.