Someone explain to me why Gaim is so great?
 

Okay not to muck up the other thread with my opinions on Gaim but can someone explain to me why it's so celebrated? I mean I enjoyed a lot of the characters and part of the journey of the show but overall I felt the ending killed the show badly and that it had a lot of flaws. This is very ironic coming from the guy who loves practically all the Toku shows he's seen. But yeah why is it so good?

First of all: This time we use spoiler tags, okay? Because over in the other topic you threw spoilers around like nobody's business and it took way too long before a mod noticed this and edited the tags in.

Okay, here we go: First of all I don’t think anyone can tell you because your opinion is already cast in stone. At least I get that vibe from your posts. I’m actually quite surprised why you’re even asking this question.

Someone can tell you why we think your opinion on the show is wrong, but I don’t feel like it would change anything. Just accept that the show wasn’t for you. It’s very different from other Toku shows so it’s probably just the break from the formula that irritates you, no biggie.

Last rider we got was wizard. gaim was a step up in quality. Also we were all put onto Gen Urobuchi's Wild Ride.

I think Gaim is overhyped. It's a good show, but it gets a lot more credit than it deserves because it brought back serialized storytelling and was relatively dark for a post-Decade series. It did have a good story that kept you interested (when it wasn't being sidetracked to shill other Toei projects), but it had plenty of issues with character development, especially for its female characters.

For one, they changed the formula. Usually in Tokusatsu the episodes are episodic, the heroes face the MoTW and that's it. But in Gaim, while there's still MoTW, the primary focus was the story and the lore. Each episode is important as you need to watch the next episode in order to see what happens but you also need to watch the previous episodes in order to fully understand what's going on.

Also, the series in one of the few where the writing manages to make the supporting characters, well, supportive. For example, the other Riders aside from the main ones. And also, the writing can be surprising, take a look at Ryugen. He looks like a typical sidekick but they managed to turn him into possibly the best character of the show.

TL;DR, Gaim changed a lot of things and makes the series fresh.

Yeah I'm sorry about that, I forget not everyone has seen Gaim. That was my mistake. To be fair my opinion isn't in stone probably just really solid ice, I have been known to change my opinion, like I didn't care for Kamen Rider Black's ending for the longest time then decided to watch it again and saw that it was actually better than I first thought it was and took it everything negative I said about it back.

I personally loved 45 episodes of Gaim and then the ending sent it down the toilet. I mean I don't hate the fact that a lot of my favorite riders come from this show like Knuckle, Bravo, Ryugen, Zangetsu, Baron, and more. I think I just got angry from the other thread because well Drive and Ghost I love and them being attacked made me both angry and well I personally thought Gaim also had writing issues too. Though I do have this issue where I get angry I grow irrational and not notice it so this post is just born from that irrationality so once again I apologize.


Thank you, that's my other issue that it is overhyped and overhyped things do bother me at times. Yeah it had a lot of character development issues. Overall the flaws of the show just bother me a lot and I wonder why people like this. I really don't mean to become offensive to others favorites like people do to mine. Anyways I feel that I might have to give Gaim a rewatch though and possibly inspect more of the aspects I will notice seeing the show a second time after knowing it.

Well I'll give it the respect for those things but I am not entirely sure it changed the formula entirely maybe changed the formula back I'll give it.

Well it did well with some supporting characters and bad with some others. I doesn't deserve the super amount of hate I was giving it but overall I feel it had its strengths and weaknesses but its weaknesses won out overall to me.

It's not my all time favorite, in fact it probably just hits the top 5 for me (admittedly I haven't finished that many seasons, but I have at least seen bits of a decent number), it had some great drama, an interesting world, some fantastic characters, a good sense of humor, and as was said, it brought back the more serialized episodes of older seasons, which was very much appreciated.

I'd take Ryuki, Hibiki or Faiz over Gaim any day, but I definitely enjoyed it more than say..OOO, Wizard, Drive, and so far Ghost (though I do like what I've seen of Ghost so far).

And as far as endings go, Ryuki, which is quite possibly my all time favorite show (even outside of Toku), has the most infuriating last 5 minutes or so if it literally just ended with Ren's death in the hospital rather than timewarping everything and giving the series a happy ending it would have been PERFECT. W had a pretty irritating conclusion as well. And Faiz had basically no conclusion. And yet the strengths of those shows far outweighed that one flaw.

You don’t need to apologize for that, I get you. Gaim has lots of issues, like I agree with everything you said about Marika. She’s such a waste of a character yet her actress is so awesome, I feel bad for her.

The Helheim thing I can understand too, it’s easy to assume that it’s the root of all problems. But once a species is just like “Nah, go away we don’t need you, we'll burn your shitty forest” that’s the end of it. And the humans obviously didn’t have that power, so I think the way it ended is the only way it could’ve ended.

But when you talk about Baron and how it surprised you that he is the final boss of the show after everything he said and did on the show is a bit irritating. That character was always like that and his evolution on screen was very clear.

About the “talking shit about other shows”-part, I know that that can irritate people. I always try to hold myself back but then the next Ghost episode always angers me again with its nonsense. Like, Drive I disliked. But I can openly admit that this show did right during the second half. Ghost? I cannot watch that show and feel entertained. Or come up with a reason why me not liking it does not mean it’s a bad show. I can’t find enough reason to not talk shit about that show, same with Wizard.

So sorry for that but in that case I can’t change myself, I will never admit that I liked Wizard or Ghost or admit that they are good because I just can’t see it. Maybe Ghost makes a ridiculous comeback but that’s really unrealistic.

I praise it for being the best thing Urobuchi has ever done.

Not because it's the pinnacle of his talent, but because Toei had him on a choke chain to keep from going into his usual "LOLZ LETS KILL THAT GUY BECAUSE FUCK HIM MISERY IS LIFE DEATH DEATH DEATH! KILL KILL KILL! SUFFERING GETS ME OFF!" modus operandi.

I think Gaim definitely falls into the good category, but I do agree it is overhyped. Like, it was absurdly cool and had a very intriguing plot but the characterization of about 90% of the cast were pretty awful. Also, if you knew anything about Gen's writing before you watched the show it becomes laughably easy to guess where the plot is going, even if it did occasionally surprise me. So I definitely think there are better seasons but I would be lying if I said I didn't immensely enjoy Gaim too.

It was cool. It did a lot within it's limitations and changed a formula that had become way too fucking stale.

Gaim does have its flaws, I agree. Particularly with the Yggdrasil arc, where's it just a circle of backstabbings with no real forward movement of the plot for a few episodes. I haven't rewatched the show so I can't say if it's overhyped or not.

But like everyone else said, Gaim is hyped up because it was more serialized. Especally looking back now after stuff like Drive and Ghost, Gaim stands out even more oddly in the pantheon of Rider shows from the past 5 years. Considering all the other shows have more formulaic two parters and plot reveals seen a mile away.

Why do you staunchly believe people are unable to change their opinions?
I used to want to break the jaws of people who mentioned ponies around me.
Now...
Clarity on a subject can alter one's perception on something. Not everyone is looking to counter every reason brought up.

As for Gaim, it shook things up. It broke a formula that basically everyone was tired of.
However, place me in the group that says it's overhyped. I was having issues with the series around the late 30's. From Kouta's mentality to Kaito's...Well, you know, things just stopped making sense after a certain point.
Also, Marika is the worst female rider ever. Like, my god. We finally get one who's relevant to the series, and she merely exists to suck the dick of whoever has the most power around her? Dammit...

What I love about Gaim is the strong story and characters. I love how things change over time and how great the drama was. You also had a great memorable cast of characters too. Gaim was the Kamen Rider show that I would watch every week. Unlike Wizard, where I drop the show early on and finish it on the last minute. I really want another strong show like Gaim because it was able to show that a kids show can be enjoy for people for all ages with good writing.

The only thing I didn't like about Gaim was that some of the lockseeds are pointless. Gaim would use them like twice and are never used again.

I can't get into it at all. I managed to barely to get to episode 14 before I shelved it and moved onto Drive. I wouldn't say it's bad, it just bored me and the I found the characters uninteresting.

^Funny since I'm total opposite. I could not get into Drive at all. I found the humor in Drive to be weak and I didn't like any of the characters. It was the first Rider show that I drop since Kiva.

I think the whole fruit motif still doesn't make sense to me, so I have a feeling that played a role in my aversion as well. (the SHFAs are nice though, I own two of'em believe it or not)

Whereas Drive had the whole vehicle angle, which hit me right in the Transformers nerd spot.

I'll finish Gaim, along with W. Someday.

Gaim is popular because Toei hired a critically acclaimed and award-winning writer rather than choosing a name from its usual pool of six writers who take it in turns to do Kamen Rider. This led to a series that broke away from the tired old format that the franchise was running into the ground, filled with a wide variety of characters to maximise appeal. Then it went and had a great toy line on top of that. It was win all around.

Also, replying to OP's post from the Ghost thread:

It's repetitive because it means you can see all his twists coming a mile away, but I don't know if cliche is the right word for it. It's no more cliche than Ghost's quest to get a wish from the seven dragon balls or Decade being an all-powerful amnesiac.

If Urobuchi wants to write stories about human morality, that's his decision. Nobody criticises Miyazaki for harping on about environmentalism in most of his films.

Only they wouldn't have killed him because they couldn't.

Why he was backing Kouta so much I have no idea. The guy could clearly see into the future so maybe he obviously saw the most potential in him? I dunno, I'm making assumptions and yes the series wasn't especially clear on this.

This isn't bad writing, this is you projecting your own interpretation of Kaito onto him.

Who did he work with for any other reason than to benefit his own cause? He didn't bat an eyelid at Yggdrasil's proposal of letting the bulk of humanity die and was quite happy to ally himself with Ryouma, because all he was after was the fruit and the power it would give him. He didn't really become a "leader" to anyone - Marika followed him around like a lovesick puppy and although he took Zack under his wing, he made it very clear to him not to get in his way.

Kaito has a code of honour, but he isn't remotely heroic.

"Villain" by its very definition means evil, so yes you kinda are.

Sagara is undoubtedly questionable in his methods and morally ambigious, but all he presents is the opportunity to evolve. It's what the fruit bearer does with that brings the trouble. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

And I'm going to be perfectly honest, if people criticising a show you like works you up then you need to take a step back. Not everyone likes the same thing, and unfortunately Ghost's fans seem to be in the minority. More power to you for liking it, because it means at least some people are getting enjoyment out of it. But not everyone is going to like the same thing, and eventually you'll find yourself enjoying something that everyone else hates.

Magiranger is one of my favourite Sentai series, but when this site did a Let's Watch Wednesday of it those threads were nothing but dislike for the show on a weekly basis. You've just got to ignore it and take solace in the fact that YOU like it.

Well Gaim was my first weekly Kamen Rider show so it was a really fun adventure to watch every single week. For a toku show it had a good story. The four different arcs in the show were great and told their own great stories. The suits looked really cool to me and the comedy made sense in my opinion.

Now there are negatives, like when the suits start to do actions and fight the choreography is not the best. So the action was not that great to me at all. The development of some characters was not great. Kaito and Kouta the two main characters looking back were not that interesting. Kaito's development towards the end felt rushed and Kouta just felt gullible to Sagara.

Its really Micchy and Takatora that carried the show later on for me. Their story was one of the high lights as well as the interactions with other characters. The other side characters were entertaining to see and there are some that I would love to see Gaim Gaidens of some day.

So overall it is not at all a perfect show by any means but it holds its own and manages to tell a complete story. To me the real ending is not the last episode. That title would come down to episode 46. 47 while it was all cool and stuff felt very low budget. Like extremely small.

Funny that you mention that, I'm more of a casual Transformers fan because I only like Beast Wars really, but Gaim hit me really hard in terms of what I like about Transformers because of how the armor unfolds when it comes down.

The gimmick toys do that too and I think it’s awesome.

I never had that vibe with Drive since the forms are based on cars and not transform in a "changing shapes" kinda sense, but I do see where you're coming from. Type Technic for example looks really Transformers-esque.

Well I think Urobuchi did the best he could with working with a production company that probably guided him from doing everything he probably wanted. Now maybe cliched is the wrong word but I guess it is the writer's prerogative if he wants to keep showing the same thing in different ways. I can't really detract that from him that was more of my irrationality. Though yeah repetitive I could definitely go with and even though it was repetitive for his work it wasn't for Kamen Rider lol.

Well to be fair we don't exactly know how strong Sagara was or even if he had a physical state to destroy. I mean he could have just been a spirit and if we had a little more information I would be fine not just this is a bible allegory.

Yeah I either it was potential, survival, or looking out for the world. It really depends on what he was trying to do.

Well to be fair I also thought of Kaito as Lawful Evil or an Anti-villain. Still I know it's not me who thought this in my last debate about this others found his character did change and there was more to him. I still feel that his wound did drive him mad. Though if his goal was always power how could he be corrupted by it? If it was always what he wanted.

I really just have a lot of unanswered questions about Sagara and if I had answers I probably wouldn't be upset. Now it could be perceived that he used Kouta as his pawn and that he always picks one person in the evolutionary game to manipulate but still that is just speculation. Can we get a V-Cinema about Sagara please? lol.


Yeah it really depends on my mood and time of day I normally go into those posts or whatever to defend what I like about it and try to help people realize maybe they are missing something that makes the show/whatever I'm defending great. I really don't try to attack other things but this year has just been a mess for me. I trying more to not let these things bother me it's just I care and love these things a lot. Hell I love Kamen Rider so much I'd even defend Gaim over some other shows lol.

I'm happy I made this post even after if it was from anger, I'm enjoying seeing what everyone says about it.

Gaim was the first Kamen Rider series that I watched all the way through. When I first saw the armors I thought they looked cool. Then I heard they were fruit based and I went O_o'. I thought it sounded utterly ridiculous. But I watched it when I heard what it was about. I utterly LOVED it!!

Yeah when the suits we revealed, a lot of people were saying it looked like a cheap Malaysian knock-off rather than actual riders lol.

People really thought that? Wow. :lolol

First off your opinion is your opinion so I am not hating on you but I'll at least tell you why I think it's good.

Gaim brought a bit of a different thing to kamen rider that we hadn't seen. Firstly, Gaim's riders were all different in there own ways, to me at least. Secondly, story was better than wizard and kept people intrigued. Lastly, I think many people liked how it made you wonder why everyone did what they did and what lengths they'd go to achieve their goals.

I agree that the last episode was unnecessary but it at least showed micchy was determined to be good again even if he was the only rider left.

Gaim offered two HUGE changes to the status quo at a time when Kamen Rider was in a serious rut.

First off, the story format: Previous shows had been in a pretty typical "two-episode" style for quite a while; part A where we'd meet a monster & part B where the monster would be destroyed. Gaim instead offered more of a continuous story, where events would flow naturally and build on each other to develop a more complicated universe.

Second, the cast: Again, previous years had fallen into a mostly predictable "main Rider plus Second with slightly-varied motif" rut in the years leading up to Gaim. but with almost a dozen Riders with unique motivations and backgrounds we got a much greater variety of lead characters to follow.

Adding to what was said above the motifs were fresh(yeah I said it) and despite skepticism they pulled it off well.
Aside from the fruit motifs the various suit motifs that ranged from samurais to vikings were also nicely done.
The show made me care about the people and riders around Kouta, and seeing them either grow or change as people was really cool.
The character dynamics were what made it fun as well.
And let us not forget the merch, oh yes, the merch.
The interchangeability of the fruit armors for the action figures was GENIUS.
People had fun and I think a good number of the folks here who own them can testify to this.
Even if you did not own one seeing what people can come up with within the given options were fun to watch.

And there was also this dude.
https://www.bigbadtoystore.com/image...e/BAN15636.jpg

^I am so glad I got the Bravo figuart. Was such a fun character and the design is just so freaking badass.

Hey I love Bravo too, he was one of the best parts of the show and I own Knuckle's figuart and he's one of my all time favorite Riders, so I'm not saying everything was bad from it lol.

I dunno this might only deal with Wizard which I'm not sure on but Meteor and Birth were vastly different secondary riders from their main riders and from what I hear about Accel him too.

Gaim hasn't been on since September 28, 2014, not counting movies/specials. There is absolutely no reason to use spoiler tags.

So, I haven't had an interesting enough opinion to actually post on here in ages, but I have two years of pent-up frustration about Gaim and this sounds like a great chance to vent.

First of, cards on the table, I've seen every Hesei series and Gaim is the only one I don't like. I adore Wizard and have an easy time forgiving even Kiva's flaws, and I think Gaim is a pile of ****. Okay, that's a bit extreme, but I'm not fond of it.

I think the biggest problem I have is less the show itself and more overabundant hype that others have already mentioned. As I just said, I liked Wizard, so it was especially rough for me to hear about how much better Gaim apparently was so often.

But the thing about that is, for about half of the show's run, I would've agreed! I loved seeing each new episode of Gaim, and while I'm usually the first to point out that simply being darker and less episodic doesn't make a show better, it felt like Gaim had some real quality beyond that.

While it would take a novel's worth of text to detail every problem I have with Gaim, and this is a long enough post as is, the short of it is that as the show went on, it became apparent to me that the show was nowhere near as smartly written as I was giving credit for, and by the second-to-last episode (AKA the last "real" one) the magic had faded completely.

To end on a more positive note, the break from the formula WAS nice, even as someone who didn't find it stale, and the acting was the best the franchise has ever seen. It may be hard to notice through the veil of subtitles, but no matter how crappy the lines got, or how flat the characters, the actors breathed life into their characters with some genuine passion, and I can only hope they get roles in better shows down the line.

Not everyone has seen the series or is familiar with the plot, though. I think this is what Kiwami means.

If we go by that "logic" then you have use spoiler tags for movies that came out in 1920 or 1895.

That "logic" is ridiculous. If the show is on presently use spoiler tags for the most recent episode. If it has been well over a year there is absolutely no need for a spoiler tag. If anyone didn't watch it when came on and decided to later gets spoiled they have only themselves to blame for not exercising the minuscule intelligence needed to know a topic about a show they haven't seen yet will have spoilers for them.

It's a formality. While this thread is labeled Gaim, just the mere fact that we have 2 threads dedicated to "General Kamen Rider" means, inevitably, someone is going to wander in and get something spoiled simply on the basis of "You should've been a fan a year ago."

Also, your "Logic" is also just as ridiculous. Why would anyone go into a thread about the latest episode if they hadn't already watched the latest episode? That's just asking to ruin what goes down in it.

There is no perfect solution to it, but come on. Gaim isn't even 2 years old yet, and apparently the grace period, for lack of a better term, on spoilers has apparently run out for any fan to dare enter the fandom after it's release.

What is so wrong with having a spoiler warning in a post? Yes, the poster needs to type in 20 extra characters, but what's the purpose in raising a fuss over such a menial topic?

Well not everyone has seen every single Kamen Rider show. Spoilers will always exist no matter what because no one has seen every show. Its disrespectful to go around and say everything that has happened in something no matter how old the show, movie or book is.

Also so people may have opened this thread to see the general consensus on Gaim before watching it. See how people think the general tone of the show will be and how it evolves over time. The can see that the show starts great, but gets a little rocky towards the end. The opinions of others with out giving much away can excite a person or turn them away.

Spoiler tags should absolutely be used no matter how old the show is. Not everyone has seen this show and doesn't want to know what major plot points will happen. There has to be some sense of mystery to entice the viewer and leave surprises for them. To just spout out which major characters die just takes the fun out of viewing the show.

If you had not seen a show yet would you want to get spoiled? No you probably wouldn't so naturally you'd want people to be respectful to you. If you see a thread that might give opinions on what people think of a show you're interested in you'd check it out. Again I'm just trying to say that spoiler tags should be used so that the fun isn't taken out of others viewing pleasure.

1) Suit designs. This is subjective, but I thought the Gaim designs were incredible. Gaim itself is the best base form we've gotten since . . . ever? And Kachidoki . . . perfection.

2) Acting. Genki Sudo (sorry?) has such enthusiasm, it got me hyped. Plus, there weren't any characters as annoying as Onari or the captain (most of the season) in Drive

3) Gimmick integration. yeah, its a toy commercial - but it seemed to flow with the story alot more than Ghost or Drive or Wizard (had ok moments but died quickly)

4) Pacing. this might be #1. Shit happened, and there was a constant energy level with this show. Wizard in particular was sooooooooo fucking boring to me, Drive at times (liked it overall), and Ghost are just so slow, mainly because the plot left so many unanswered questions)

5) Takatora Kureshima. Do I need to say anything more? He's the hero we deserve.

Your assumption is completely false. If I care about the show I obtain every spoiler as humanly possible.

As for spoiler tags I will use them on content that is a month or less old, assuming I remember. After that it's up to the reader to know not to enter areas that may have spoilers.

I do that all the time if I get around to it before watching it.

Well if you like to be spoiled then thats what you like I guess. Just try and remember that not everyone likes to be spoiled and you should be respectful to that.

Within 30 days after that then it up to those who don't wish to be spoiled to avoid spoilers.