Kamen Rider Ghost Episode 44- "Launch! The Terror of Demia!" Discussion
 

Adel's final project- to transform the Human World into the Ganma World- is underway. Takeru must stop him by searching through the memories of those connected to Demia' servers...

I am really love when Takeru use Beethoven Damashii again to neutralize bad effect from Demia's eyes lens...

Hmm...Onari in Alain's body transform into Necrom but sadly...Onari defeated by Igor.....

Cool fights in church when Ghost, Necrom, and Specter against Ganmaizer Fire and Ganmaizer Wind....

But, at the end, it seems Adel can absorb many souls from Demia Project because Adel has rope-like lights on his back.....

Next episode, Adel vs Ghost, Ghost vs some of Ganmaizers, and Makoto in Deep Specter vs Evil Makoto in Deep Specter....

https://scontent.fcgk3-1.fna.fbcdn.n...f4&oe=581295FD

WELL.....Looks like unfortunately, Onari possessing Alain WAS useless after all....SIGH....Ya know, Ghost has a really bad habit of claiming things that don't show in their portrayal. If Akari's words to Onari were supposed to be taken seriously, then this Episode should've been where it was proven, but NOPE, Akari once again gets the slap on Igor.

And speaking of Igor, he has been for the longest a VERY MINIMAL threat. I never took him seriously this entire Episode due to his loss record, even takin Ls from AKARI of all people! LOL

Takeru being reminded of a mother & the voice calling to him was just TOO OBVIOUS that that voice is his mother.....But now this begs the question, why hasn't his mother been brought up EVER in the Series?! You'd think something so important to our main character would be mentioned by now, especially since his father's already dead.

I'm really curious on just what the two twin girls are there for. At first I thought they were just gonna be Movie characters for the Kamen Rider 1 Movie since they were in the Heisei Rider Eyecon Specials, but looks like they were actually significant to Ghost's story in of itself.

Overall, this was an.....OK Episode I guess? But once again, Ghost really needs to stop helping Victims of the Week & deliver on their main story for the remainder of the Series.

It's not like this is something this episode introduced, that was during the Shibuya storyline. That's a good 12 episodes before this.

I think the implications are clear enough, anyway, personally. His mother died (or something like that) when he was too young to really remember, and...that's probably all there really is to it.

But don't you find it odd that Takeru has NEVER mentioned his mom for the entire Series? He always only remarks on other people's relationships with theirs, but never mentions his, nor have we ever seen anything in the past about her.

My problem with the whole Takeru's Ghost-Mom thing, is that it keeps showing up and there's no pay off. It's always the same cycle of:

A voice clip of her saying "Takeru, thank you."

Takeru going "Huh, what was that?"

Then the scene ends.

This "plot point" so far has been a meaningless distraction that just pops up every now and then, with Takeru never mentioning it outside of when it happens.

Truth be told, this show has really bad pacing. There's like 5 episodes left of the series, and they're still doing VotW plots as well as random filler BS like Onari possessing Alain when there's a bunch of other plot threads going on.

Ugh...

This entire episode felt like a waste of time. Onari taking over Alain's body accomplished absolutely nothing beyond getting Takeru injured, the show is still wasting time with victims of the fortnight, the whole battle to shut down the server accomplished nothing, and the whole battle to shut down the real server accomplished less than nothing since it gave Adel an opening to gain full control. Takeru and the others may as well have just sat around with their thumbs up their butts for all they actually accomplished here.

And no, Ghost, you cannot suddenly start implying some kind of importance for Takeru's mother when you've gone 43 episodes without mentioning her existence.

And no, you also cannot suddenly pull the the girl and androgynous person from the web videos into the show like they're actually involved in all of this somehow. That is bullshit and you know it.

I've tried to be less hard on this show after getting called out on my harshness a few weeks ago, but this episode was just plain terrible. The only thing it actually managed to achieve was cementing Onari as the single worst character in the history of Kamen Rider. He's worse then Shunpei, he's worse than late-series Yuki, he's even worse than the stupid photographer from early Skyrider. Those were all terrible comic relief characters, but at least they never actively interfered in the Riders' ability to do their job. Fuck this asshole.

The last four episodes of this trainwreck cannot go by fast enough. At this point, the only way to salvage this series is for Shibuya to remember that he's really Ryotaro, pull out the Den-O belt, and reveal that this was all just a really weird Chou Den-O project.

I could write down my thoughts on this episode, but since it's basically all collected in this post already I'll be lazy and just say "What he said”.

Switchblade summed it up nicely. This was the most disappointing episode in my opinion. I'd honestly thought Onari was going to be more heroic when he possessed Alain, but I guess I was wrong and it was just all for gags.

I also skimmed and skipped through the Hiroki part of the episode; it wasn't worth my time. Also, Frey and Freya from the Kamen Rider Ghost specials are now significant to the main story all of a sudden? Okay...

I enjoy how Beethoven got to shine in this episode, like using Ode to Joy to save the day, that was great. Beethoven is the real hero we deserve.

Okay, I actually did like that part. Beethoven is probably the least utilized Eyecon on the entire show so it was nice to see it used in such a critical moment.

See I'd agree with you on the least utilized, but I think that honor now goes to Himiko who has less transformations than Beethoven. That being said, yeah, that was probably my only favorite part of the VOTW Story.

It's like I'm not sure if Beethoven will be able to do anything now that Adel has assumed complete control of Demia, but man that would be amazing if he was the downfall of Demia.

Honestly, it seems like there are a lot of Eyecons that have only been used two or three times. I have no idea when we last saw Ryoma, Goemon, Grimm, Robin Hood, Himiko, Newton, Edison... pretty much any of them that aren't Musashi, Tutankhamen, or Nobunaga.

You know that's what I loved about Specter, he had so few form changes that most of his forms got the spotlight, I say most because Houdini's been absent a lot due to it being CGI except it could be easily resolved. I'm still waiting for Deep Houdini though, because we got everything else with Deep Specter, including Edison.

I thought the Specter effect would move to Necrom but nope. That being said since Alain is good I am glad their using Grimm and Sanzo a bit more often. But that's what happens when your series has 15 Form Changes as collectibles.

After seeing the subs.....*sigh*. Where do I begin? Switchblade pretty much covered it all


The show really pulled a "Sorry! The princess is in another castle!" with the Demia servers and the heroes accomplished nothing. That was cool, I guess. Onari could have seriously gotten Alain hurt or worse, but of course he didn't because it's Kamen Rider Ghost and Onari's foolish glory-seeking can never be allowed to have negative consequences. Nobody even calls him out on making such an idiotic decision. He complains about everybody else being more useful than him, and Akari gives him some generic "Takeru needs you!" speech despite the fact that he has no real skills that would prove this statement true. I mean, jeez, even the Special Investigations Unit, each member had individual skills that were useful to Shinnosuke and gang. Onari provides.....moral support, I guess?

The stuff with Hiroki was super pointless, seriously I don't get why they even bothered introducing that story arc this late into the game. It was nice to see Beethoven again. Honestly, I forgot Takeru even had any other forms because all he uses nowadays is Mugen.

And now that I think about it, yeah, I don't recall Takeru's mother EVER getting mentioned throughout the entire series, but she's just shoehorned in here because the writers apparently forgot that it takes two people to make a kid. I mean, it's not like Gaim where the parents are just dead and the show doesn't even bother to address them most of the time. Here in Ghost, Takeru's dad is half the damn plot of the show, but his mother just didn't matter up until now?

So yeah.....44 episodes in and the only thing meaningful that happened was Adel merging with the world or some shit, something that would have happened regardless of whether or not the heroes bothered doing anything. Gyro's coming back next episode, glad to see the show didn't totally forget about him, even though he's yet another villain in a show where all of the major villains are still alive and kicking and we only have 5 more episodes to go. Speaking of which, whatever happened to Javel? Either I missed him in the previews or he simply isn't there.

Oh dear. I haven't gone in one of the episode discussion threads since I starting posting again until now. I may be in the wrong neighborhood here.

Well, um, anyway, I liked it? Can I say that without getting burned at the stake?

Okay, so someone else already brought this up but this isn't the first time she's been mentioned. She's never been significant, but it's not like they just made her up right now. Drive decided Shinnosuke's dad should be central to the plot 27 episodes in, so it's not even the first time Kamen Rider has pulled this exact trick.

There's no shortage of legitimate complaints to make about Ghost. You don't need to make up extra flaws too.

You know what, that is kind of bulls***, actually. Drive kind of took baby steps toward having all the tie-in stuff fit in with the TV show, but it never amounted to much more than a character briefly showing up in a context where you didn't need to see said tie-ins. I guess we'll see have to see how this plays out, then.

Damn, dude, you consider Chou Den-O an improvement over Ghost? Ice cold... That's the second worst insult you could give a Rider show besides "Man, they should just let Inoue write this, it'll suck less".

Disclaimer: I actually like all the Chou Den-O movies (go figure).

I'd argue Shinnosuke's dad was done better, as it was established rather early on that his dad's death was Shinnosuke's main motivation for becoming a police officer. Takeru's mother has been rather insignificant, but hinted at. Considering his dad was brought up in the movie and the 14th or so episode, in which his goal was to reset Takeru's timer because Takeru thought wasting 40 days inbetween 2 episodes is inconsequential

I liked the Chou Den-O movies. They were largely throwaway, but still fun. The Diend one had one of my all-time favorite Den-O gags, too, with the Taros complaining about having to look for the Denliner Pass again because Momotaros keeps throwing it before his final attack. It wasn't Den-O at its best, but it was a fun series of films.

Well, I'm still enjoying the central plot of the show - Ganma world, Adel, Ganmeizers, Eadith, etc. But the random nonsense is getting out of hand, and too many things have been going on that have absolutely no effect on the story. Like, why did we get that episode where Takeru still insists on using Grateful Damashii, other than to say "hey look kids, we still like the heroic eyecons and you should too, so go buy them"? He still uses Mugen 95% of the time.

This is a show that had a lot of good ideas and just didn't know how to implement them. Why would they introduce Igor and Deep Connect so early into the series, only for it to not show up again until the very end? And why haven't they fully explained why Eadith was using two identities? What was his real goal?

Yeah, but it was established in all of like, one throwaway line. Which is what I'm saying. Obviously I don't know what kind of payoff any of this will have, but it seems a little unreasonable to act like Takeru hearing his mom's voice briefly like 3 times is some kind of supreme annoyance. There's just so many better things to whine about, you know?

I guess I just don't don't have a problem with that kind of thing. You know, like a lot of you are complaining that the show is wasting time with standard VotW plots but I don't really see why you need a reason to show your hero helping people out. I think it's actually really fitting for the kind of character Takeru is that he'd have half a week left and still be bothered to help some random person out. Same deal with that episode where refuses to accept that the heroic Eyecons are last quarter's toys.

I consider it less a failure of the show to focus on the Plot and more the show not trying to focus on the Plot. I really don't feel every show has to be hyper-serialized, and for that matter, the VotW stuff directly connects to the main Plot, so this isn't even the worst example.

I will more or less agree with all this though. Ghost has been pretty messy. It's the flaw that hangs over the whole show more than anything else. I'll go ahead and add in that if feels super weird to have Javert pop up like once every ten whole episodes mostly just to remind you he exists. You'd think whatever arc they're doing with him could've been dealt with 20 episodes ago. Maybe there's a reason they've kept him around to the very end, but that's another thing that nobody will know until the show's over.

While I will agree that this isn't the WORST example of a VotW Episode(it did at least not COMPLETELY focus on that kid, and his problem did tie into the main conflict of the Episode & the entire plan of the Ganma), regardless, the issue isn't that he's helping people. That's nice & all, but this stuff shouldn't be consistent within the WRAP-UP OF THE SERIES. This is around when this show should be coming to a closure somehow. The stakes should be raising, and more importantly concerning this discussion, we should be wrapping up the character development of our main character. If our last Episodes are still centered around helping other people, then that takes away time for our main character to grow. And no, this isn't just a problem Ghost has, but many other Kamen Rider Series also have this issue. (Though at least most of those didn't run VotW stuff through to their last couple Episodes...)

I know it's kinda a low blow to bring up another Rider Series in comparison to this, but I just gotta say this. Know why Gaim did so well with its portrayal of story & characterization? Because it literally had little-to-NO VotW Episodes. The story was literally written to focus around our MAIN CHARACTERS ONLY. This is something I really wish other Kamen Rider Series would follow suit with in their storytelling format. It forces the writing to actually develop our lead protagonist, instead of having them be just a frickin preacher towards someone else and make them end up looking like a Gary Stu. Ghost on the other hand still has us dealing with lame VotW stuff when this show's gonna end in less than 10 Episodes....and Takeru is STILL a stick in the mud in terms of his characterization, and due to all these VotW Episodes, he's now become a dull Gary Stu character with no character development under his belt. This is why, like I said in a previous Episode thread, that I REALLY wished that the Episodes after Mugen's debut would revolve around Takeru HIMSELF actually emphasizing & feeling each of the emotions that Mugen Soul uses. This would be opportunity for CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!!! But nope, instead, Takeru is simply observing other people express these emotions & preaching to them on what they should & shouldn't do....

SIGH.....I'm sorry this turned into such a rant, but I'm just sorely disappointed in how this Series has gotten. I had high anticipation for this show when I first saw Ghost's appearance & Form Changes(I still say Ghost has one of the best designs of recent times), but....the storytelling has gotten REALLY bad to where I can't defend it at this point.

The show is coming to a closure. The stakes are raising. They've been raising. This was likely the last VotW plot you're going to have to suffer through. There's at least 4 whole episodes left. That is more time than it might sound like to wrap everything up in a nice little bow.

No I don't. I've been puzzling that for two years now, I'm literally at the 34th episode of a rewatch I've been doing to see if it makes more sense then I remember and I still think Gaim's writing was, at the absolute best, no less sloppy than Ghost's. Feel free to just ignore the rest of my post since I'm obviously crazy, but Gaim is not the gold standard other shows should be held up against.

Kouta and Takeru are actually really similar characters though. They're both kinda doofy generically nice people who grow into more larger than life, heroic characters over the course of the series.

That's exactly what they did!!!

He's not preaching when he gives those speeches, he's saying what he's learned from his experiences with others. That's what the whole showdown with Adel a couple episodes back was all about. It's what the whole show is about. He's had all these crazy adventures and he's learned stuff. He's been learning stuff since the earliest episodes. That is exactly what character development is all about. I know it's easy to go "well he's a generic nice guy at the start, and he's a generic nice guy at the end," and say that he's bland but it just isn't the case because there's more to it than that.

I swear, it's literally every year with the "main character is bland" crap. I hope for your sakes Ex-Aid turns out to be the most three-dimensional character ever put to television, because sometimes I swear you people won't be satisfied with anything less.

Likewise! I know that came off really confrontational (especially that last bit), but I actually do understand why Ghost has been so disappointing to people, honest. I just think sometimes people get so wrapped up in not liking something they sort of lose sight of any qualities that may be there.

Liking things is a lot more fun than not liking things, in my experience, but I guess it's a little arrogant to ask people to reevaluate their entire opinion on a show 40 episodes in.

Ghost Final Episode in Episode 50. This series is almost end but how Makoto obtain Tutankhamun Ghost Eyecon and Houdini Ghost Eyecon is still unknown. Why they not give explanation about Makoto's past when he obtain Tutankhamun and Houdini?

Because that means they'd have to explain Newton back in episode 4, which the writers probably aren't going to even consider

Newton Ghost Eyecon origin also still unknown. How, when, and where Newton Ghost Eyecon created is become mystery. Newton Ghost Eyecon in Drive Episode 48 already in mafia guy possession (I am forget his name but his actor portay Kamen Rider Raia)

Some Ghost Eyecon such as Goemon, Ryoma, Himiko, Grimm, and Sanzo also obtained by Saionji off-screen but I would be assume Saionji can obtain five Ghost Eyecons by his Prototype Ghost Driver in his briefcase.....

Maybe they'll explain that in Specter's V-Cinema.

Guys, obviously Newton, Tutankhamen, and Houdini all came from the same place Saionji got his five Eyecons. Duh.

... I'm not actually sure if I'm being sarcastic or not. I guess this is just the difference between someone who can like Ghost and someone who can't. I don't even fully understand why details like that matter. Obviously it'd be nice to have a full explanation but it's not like it's a plot hole or anything.

Admittedly, the writers probably shouldn't be thinking the same way as me about their own show.

This could be possible too...especially in recent years, we has secondary Riders V-Cinema (Baron and Mach)


Sometime, I am has feeling about a mafia guy steal Newton Ghost Eyecon from Saionji....

Its really interesting about each Ghost Eyecon's origin and explanation. I am really curious to Ghost Eyecon Origin because each Ghost Eyecon has special item to release them (example: Edison's lightbulb, Robin Hood's bow, Billy the Kid's cowboy hat, etc..) and needed special person who has strong feeling to Heroic Soul....

I've said it before to you, the Newton Eyecon coming out of nowhere is bullshit because A: bad writing and B: Ghost had to retrieve it from Ganma. In the SAME EPISODE HE USED NEWTON, he claimed he will never use an Eyecon that a human had to die for. It's not only contradictory, but also makes no sense. If Takeru even IMPLIED he got the Eyecon back in his unnecessary Ghost cameo, it wouldn't have bothered me as much, but he doesn't. It's such an asspull that even Jojo's Bizarre Adventure would smack the writers in the face

But if that's the case, it's not just Newton that's the problem. It's Ryouma, Goemon, and Himiko too.

The episode you're talking about is also episode 3, with Robin Hood. That is more or less what he said, but the point was he doesn't want to sacrifice someone for an Eyecon if he can help it. If the Eyecon already exists, he can't help it. It seems straightforward enough to me.

Because it doesn't matter how he got them.

Also, all in all I don't mind VOTW style episodes, but when you have as many subplots as Ghost and don't explain all of them, you shouldn't be focusing on VOTW stuff.

I really hope you're miscounting - I don't want an extra two episodes of this show.

I believe somewhere it was mentioned that Ghost's Story was going to end in 48. And that Episodes 49 and 50 are going to be a crossover with Ex-Aid. So you'll be getting extra Ghost with a preview of Ex-Aid.

Ugh again...

Hey, you should look forward to these episodes! Two whole episodes which don’t build on the show's ending so they're useless as far as the currently ending show is concerned but they introduce the new Rider which will act and speak in a way which is not representative of the new Rider at all, since he will turn out completely different in his own show.

Isn't that exciting?!

(I'm perfectly aware by the way that at least the Drive/Ghost crossover had a few good scenes, especially those with Shinnosuke and Kiriko, but the crossover itself was still garbage)

I just want to never have to see these characters again. That's all I'm asking for.

Yea, the stakes have sure been raising....when our main character has died, like, TWICE NOW ever since he was turned into Ghost(3 counting the Movie), and has still been revived...

Don't get me wrong, I get that Adel is getting stronger & all, and he technically continued Demia before it completely failed, but still....the buildup towards this conclusion was honestly sloppy.

LOL REALLY?!! You SERIOUSLY don't see the difference in writing of the two shows & which has more quality?! Gaim, which had a continuous plot, a cohesive storyline & a main character who actually goes through some CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT?! Compared to Ghost which has ridiculous pacing issues & a main character who is pretty much at this point just another Gary Stu?!

No, they're not quite the same, due to CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT, or in Takeru's case, lack thereof.

With Kouta, the writers made it very clear that they were emphasizing Kouta to grow mature. Heck, Urobochi made it a point that his show's theme was kids growing into adulthood. Kouta had to learn about the responsibility of gaining power, and how he must use power in order to break the unfair rules of sacrifice. Meanwhile, Takeru? For the majority of the Series, I've struggled to see one Episode where I can legit say he had character development. Almost every time, it's him helping someone else out with their troubles. Hence why VotW Episodes can get problematic.

LOL NO THEY DIDN'T!!! Name ONE instance where Takeru himself felt one of the emotions from Mugen. The only possible one that I could say he felt was Joy, since he was all happy that everyone did so much to bring him back. But other than that, it's always him reflecting on others acting on those emotions.

....But how does watching all these emotions being displayed by others benefit him as a character?! And I say WATCHING because there's no way he's "learning" about these...it's not like he was unaware of these emotions himself, now is he? -__-

WHAT has Takeru learned?! What shows in his character that he's different & changed from who he was at the start? He hasn't gone through anything that has challenged his ideals & made him have to question himself. I mean, I know Kamen Rider has a bad habit of not developing their main character much but THIS.....

I hope so too, cuz I'm tired of Kamen Rider giving us near-bland main protagonists. Know what I'd REALLY like? I know I'm gonna get flack for this, but I think we need another Tsukasa type person for our main protagonist. We have way too many goodie-two-shoe leads, a rebellious & cocky(but not an idiot) main character would be a nice change of pace.

I completely loved this episode. I enjoyed Onari realizing he was rash but that he learned that he is important to the team and thoroughly enjoyed him and Akari kicking Igor's butt. I see what Onari did as something very human and realistic just because times are dire doesn't mean everyone is going to act the way the should. Takeru was brilliant, I loved using music to help free everyone and also him going to find the real server. He didn't give up hope even though they were tricked and manipulated but stayed strong, helped give everyone else hope and did his best to succeed. Alain and Makoto were both badasses and glad they could help against the Ganmaizers; the three of them together are just an amazing team of riders. I am intrigued with the mystery of Takeru's mother and see that turning into something at the end. Igor pulled some Watchmen level planning here with tricking them with both Bills being his minion and the secondary server; he's more brains then brawn though but that's okay and definitely feel his plan is setting up an amazing end game here. I can't wait to see what happens next.

The show was never trying to fake the audience out any of the times Takeru died. It was faking the characters out. Akari spells this out for the audience in episode 42. It felt real to them. Which is what matters, because it allows you to see how everybody (including Takeru!) deals with something that heavy. It's dramatic because of that, not because of any suspense. It's perfectly reasonable no matter how much fun it is to joke about.

Indeed it was! I will absolutely not deny this, but I think some of you are really overselling how bad Ghost is.

Of course I see the differences in how they're written. I'm not stupid. Gaim has a largely different set of problems and the flaws it has bother me way more than the flaws Ghost has. That's all there is to it. I really would not consider one to be much better than the other though.

There isn't a single Kamen Rider show that doesn't have all those things to some extent.

I don't think there are many stories in general without those three things.

Yeah, and Ghost has made it just as clear they're emphasizing how Takeru becomes stronger because of his relationships with others. It's been that way from the start.

The whole point of the heroic Eyecons is to be something Takeru aspires to. He starts talking directly to them and they each give him advice he needs. That episode after he gets Mugen that someone asked what the point was a couple pages back? That's him cementing how much he's grown. He's now the one imploring them to grow stronger.

The reason he can see people's memories, which, again, the show explicitly spells out in no uncertain terms, is so that he can connect with them emotionally. Hence why Mugen has attacks based on emotions in the first place.

The single most crucial part of Takeru's character, especially at this point, is how empathetic he is. That's what separates him from other Rider protagonists.

I get if that's too sugary for your tastes or whatever, but just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't there.

Which brings me to this. He feels things when the people around him feel things. Gaim even had a similar moment in episode 5, where Kouta gets the courage to become Gaim again after seeing how Micchi refuses to give up against Baron, and he then gives Kaito a little speech summing up the lesson he learned from that while beating him up.

This is why I maintain they're similar characters. There's a lot of overlap between them.

And this is just flatly wrong. The whole debut of Grateful revolved around him completely losing faith in the idea of making nice with the Ganma after seeing what their world is like. He refuses to help Makoto protect Alain because he's "just a Ganma". The Eyecons abandon him because of this dramatic shift in attitude. His friends then help him to regain his faith in his ideals and the Eyecons come back to him.

This is what I'm saying. This isn't subtext. I'm not reading into this too much. It's what the whole entire show has always been about.

Just curious here, but do you find Kenzaki from Blade bland too? Because if you do I won't have to be the only one telling you how mistaken you are about the main characters in Kamen Rider.

I also would love to see a third generation Takumi, but the characters we are getting are just as good.

I hope I'm not coming off too aggressive because it really is fine to not like Ghost, and I don't consider it unreasonable to say it's kind of bad. There are flaws to hate, and if it just plain isn't your style then that's also fine, but none of that makes it the utter trainwreck you seem to think it is, and I absolutely think Takeru is not one of those flaws.