Kamen Rider Zi-O Episode 2- "Best Match 2017!" Discussion
 

Two people from the future have confronted Sougo- one wants to help him, one wants to kill him. And elsewhere, a monster has gained the power of a Legendary Kamen Rider...

Love it!

very good episode.
Sougo felt much more capable and useful than in the first episode. Every character fulfilled their role and had the screentime needed. It felt like no scene had no purpose or that humor was overused etc. well balanced episode.

Can't wait for the next 2 episodes about Ex-Aid + waifu material Ora <3

The soundtracks really give "Yugioh" vibes. I like it.

SO.

Lemme see if I've got this figured out, from all the info I've dug up.

Basketball player becomes Another Build.

New timeline where Katsuragi never became Sento, and Sento never became Build, and thus, Cross-Z doesn't exist. So now the Another Build is, by all definitions of the name, Build.
But the relationship between Katsuragi and Sento isn't changed? They're still good pals (over Linkz, but same thing).

Sougo and Geiz attack Another Build, not really killing him. This doesn't exactly fix the timeline, but "jogs" Katsuragi's and Banjo's memories.

Cut back to 2018, and Katsuragi and Banjo have their Rider gear. This creates a paradox where two Build timelines cannot coexist in the same space (the "glitches" seen during the fight).

Sougo uses Build's power (the Ridewatch) to defeat Another Build. This fixes the timeline, so Sento and Banjo have their powers again. This also likely erases the Build/Cross-z Ridewatch.

Sougo and Geiz then return the basketball player to 2017. Sougo runs up to Katsuragi and Banjo and gives them blank Ridewatches, ensuring that Geiz and Zi-O can still use the Build (and Cross-z) Ridewatch in the future.

Sound like disservice than fan service, but they can't have them outshine the new cast. Idk with the original cast is good. Look at decade, gokaiger, they're do many retcon to old series. The biggest mystery is still Ohma ZiO. I kind of wish the ninninger writer doesn't pay tribute to kr like how he did with jiraiya and other sentai. I hope to see a more face pace anniversary series instead of rider of the week. It's good and bad that they don't need to destroy the motw to gain its power. Hopefully, the future zio plot doesn't drag on too long until the end game. I hope there's multiple arcs. Look at lupinranger. Good character development, but bad plot development especially when we have kikaider human actor. It's just like yellow lion and Kaixa being wasted in switching side to kr and ss respectively.

Zio gave me an autistic and very naive weak hero like deno and kiva, but he's somewhat of a tone down Light from toqger with the look of goseired. He's just too compentent in combat as a fighter already in suit. he also grew taller in suit. lol For an all out anniversary series, I think they should pick an stronger and more charasmatic hopeful hero like actor/character personality. however, it isnt bad, but definitely a bit below expectation. Btw the opening sound more like something digimon with use nowadays to me. Preview for ep3 shows a more mature and serious M with his deep voice. I doubt we'll see 555 soon after exaid. Kind of wish they tie the 555 phone gadget to his tribute.

They brought back 2 part episodes for this season and will likely eat up most of the season until the final ten episodes or something. I could see this season being bad already. Oma zi-o's identity is going to drag on for a long time and can't see this season having too many twists. It just seems like a reunion tour for the actors of past heisei seasons.

Lup/Pat looks like things will change quickly as they will have to combine forces again and sooner or later and I think sooner one of the patos will put it together on the lupins identities. Next week's fight between Noel and Keiichiro might also uncover more secrets.

I think the Faiz characters will be returns in episode 5 and episode 6.....

Sougo is a lot better character in this episode compared to the one-dimensional guy he was in the first episode. He's still naive and optimistic, but now shows promise for a character growth.

I really love how quickly Geiz becomes his ally in such a short span of time.

The bit where after the battle where Sento claims he's Katsuragi and acted like Build never happened confused me, but then it makes sense. Basically when Sougo gives him the blank Ridewatch it sets the path to where Sento regains his memories (and presumably Build's powers) earlier in the episode.

The episode was enjoyable, but I'm just so confused. They made it a point last week to have two seperate 2017s, the "destroyed" Build timeline and the main timeline. Sooooo, the fuck?

The "Teamup" happens in 2017, Sento and Banjo lose their memories of the Build world (and themselfs) after the battle but regain them in 2018. So like, why do they lose their memories? Did the merge bring them back to 2017? I initially thought this was a case of "Oh okay so in the main timeline they're Katsuragi and OG-Banjo untill the timeline syncs and they regain their memories." But that doesn't make much sense either. Maybe with subs it'll make sense but from the small amount I understood through context, those two were the Sento and Banjo that Zi-O met in episode 1, on the main timeline.

Two episodes in and Toei proves time travel is really hard to write for.

the very second Sougo ended up at a point the sky wall is still existing in 2017, I think we should have stopped trying to find any time and space coherence.

So far it's like the world merge didn't happen (and nothing we've seen about Build in these 2 episodes can make us think the merge actually happened)
and it feels like the writers don't give a sh*t about making everything, especially endings, canon (and somehow that's a good point)

I just watched the 2.5 extra episode where Katsuragi explains the time paradox in episode 2. Base on my limited Japanese knowledge, this is what I got:

- The same Rider cannot co-exist in the same timeline
- When Another Rider is created, it officially replaces the original Rider and the timeline is altered
- Katsuragi/Sento and Banjou temporary regained their memories in episode 2 because Geiz temporary defeated Another Build at that moment
- Katsuragi says due to the time paradox, the events in Build series NEVER HAPPENED
- Banjou asks if the events in Build never happened then why Katsuragi still has Sento's face. Katsuragi dodges the question by saying "there are still things science can't explain" and asks Banjou "then why are you still having Evolt's DNA if Build never happen?"

So there we have it, looks like Zi-O will mess the timeline a lot. Let's see if they will fix it back or retcon Rider's history

If that's the case they'll prob pull a Gokaiger at the end of the show and return the powers back to every Rider and set history straight. Then we'll get to the 2019 Rider teamup and wonder how the hell they got the Ridewatches back.

Classic Toei crossover logic lol

If only there are subbers covering the 1.5 and 2.5 mini episodes. Looks like they are not just omake episodes, but cover essential episode questions.

Over-time intends to do them, they're just waiting for their editor to get back from holiday or something. Plus, TvNihon will do them at some point. TVNihon does everything

And they just put out 1.5 and promised 2.5 and 2 will be at the same time.

EDIT: and having watched 1.5, it's skipable, if somewhat interesting. I just explained the meaning behind the names of the main three. Interestingly, the secondary rider's name is ALSO derived from the concept of a king. It's pretty short and more informative than entertaining, but it's not essential.

The ninninger writer should have consulted with the cast and build's writing team at least since it just aired.

Sound like movie net video commentary meta jokes.
The whole physics defying our general knowledge thing again as an excuse. It's like the goseigreen/blackranger thing in megaforce. It's better to not over think a kids show and go psychological /philosophical. I wonder there will be Time travel paradox where geiz and tsukiyomi along with the time jackers is what created zio shift in personality. I don't see the show going back to classic Heisei with crazy dramatic mental breakdown especially the opening is very digimon/yugioh like.

It wouldn't make sense for banjo to be friends with kstsuragi with sento face. I guess they could cut out skywall if the fuse cause a change in memories of build existing in the new or original Showa Heisei krworld. Or just include world dimension hoping since they can go back from the age of Dino to edo to just one year at a time. Yeah, timeline aren't linear, but the way they incorporate original riders are bad. Shouldn't 555 phone and ridewatches be gained from original riders? It's entertaining for kids without deep knowledge of questioning though. Still better than ninja steel if that's the bar.

Yeah this makes no sense at all and this is the reason why I hate when they have crossovers, it typically retcons the past rider history. Instead of just teaming up like the shohei style movies, decade and a few heisei movies have taken away some great seasons if we are to use it as part of KR lore. I don't know why they have to change past season history. They have done this a few times and it has never been for the better of KR history.

Zi-O visiting every heisei season is stupid as I thought it was established that KR worlds are separated unlike showa riders where most lived in the same universe. So Zi-O not only crosses time, but universes? I know it's a kids show, but it's insulting fans who have followed the KR franchise for years. Visiting other worlds is terrible, especially with Build (multiverse theory was established) and it was the first one to tear down.

I think those two will be keeping an eye on Sougo on what he does and if he does become a kind king... or the demon they'll fear him to be in the future.

And did Zi-O cause a flashpoint?

I think it was Another Build's fault, not Zi-O

Where is episode on kissasian?

Episode still has not been subbed yet by over time once they finished subbing it it be on there

Let's stop talking about the timeline for a bit. Sougo is growing on me. In this episode, he's more proactive and independent, unlike in the first episode where he was dragged around by Tsukuyomi. This episode already show Sougo has certain traits to become a king. He's smart, just look at the way he escaped from Geiz or figured that he needs Build's power to defeat Another Build. He's also good at drawing people to him, Geiz who tried to kill him is now moving in his place (with Tsukuyomi). If the writer can fix the timeline properly can continues to develop Sougo well, this show will be good

Overtime subs for ep2 just came out.

https://over-ti.me/releases/kamen-rider-zi-o-02/

Hey everyone, guess what time it is!

https://i.imgur.com/knMVsTM.jpg

Time to brace myself for disappointment when Zi-O inevitably stops riding this thing in a month. Not that it's even the coolest bike or anything, but, still...

Anyway, this show is absolutely insane and I still love it. Which I said about Ex-Aid and Build a lot but Toei just keeps topping themselves with the craziness levels. Zi-O is pulling off this very delicate balancing act where the plot is so out there, and so fast-paced, that it's totally incomprehensible, and yet written so sharply that you don't feel lost.

A ton happened here but the characters were all fleshed out admirably for how little room they get, all the mystery elements are being teased in just the right way to be intriguing rather than frustrating, and just in case none of that's doing it for you, there's all that Build action for when you just wanna see those guys you liked from that show.

All in all an extremely entertaining second episode that wasn't quite as much of an improvement on the premiere as I was hoping, but is still very good nonetheless.

I've got no clue whether or not Zi-O will eventually wear out its welcome, or if it will just keep getting better and better, but it's got me hooked at the moment. Although I do have to say, right now Zi-O is in this really weird spot where I can't decide if it's just a shallow joyride or deceptively deep. Like last week, part of me gets a feeling there's a lot more thought going into the script than it looks like at a glance, but I can't be sure.

Or maybe I'm the shallow one because dangling Ex-Aid in front of me is all it takes to make me excited for next time. :lol

Ok, confused:

If Sougo gave Sento the ridewatch in the past,does it mean he does not have the build ridewatch now?

Also, for Build's world, he met him in 2018 right? So that means it's the Build new world?

Sougo gave Sento a blank ridewatch so that in 2018, it would activate and become the Build Ridewatch when Sougo goes to meet them, restoring his memory and giving Sougo the Build Ridewatch in order to go back and repeat the event, making it a loop of sorts. Sougo has the Build Ridewatch from that moment onwards.

I'm going to be honest, I'm having a bit of trouble wrapping my head around how the time travel works in this show. I respect the show having the balls to say "Rule #3 of time travel: just fucking go with it," but I'm still really unclear about what Sento and Banjou's status is after giving the watches to Sougo. I assume that means history is fixed now, but episode 2.5 implied that Sento is still Katsuragi. I hope this becomes clearer as we go along.

In any case, I liked the episode. It still felt a little rushed, but I think the series has a lot of potential once it gets the exposition out of the way.

Hella lost, but that's par for the course with time travel.
So I assume he's altered the past so that Build doesn't exist anymore? Or, at least, the Build we all know.

I have no clue what the hell...I hope they don't leave it too convoluted and clears things up as time goes on.

I also dug his Rider Kick.

For some reason, in the op Oma Zi-O is credited as "Next Legend" instead of "Oma Zi-O"
https://scontent.fvca1-2.fna.fbcdn.n...26&oe=5C289FD9

I'm like 99% sure that's referring to Emu, if anything. The credits have no relation to whatever OP visual is playing during them, and there is no reason to credit OmaZi-O for this episode in the first place as he didn't appear in it. He was properly, regularly credited last episode. Next Legend probably means exactly what it says, the next Legend Rider to be featured, but trying to keep it a little mysterious, I guess? Despite publicizing it elsewhere.

So right, I dunno where people got the impression that the Build portion in 2017 takes place after Episode 12 but before 15? (Somebody added that to the wiki) But that makes no fucking sense? It's the main timeline, they even made to sure to show us that the timeline where Another Build gets made is the main one post-Merge. So how the hell is this before episode 15?

I get that they probably really don't want us to look into this but like, Sento and Ryuga lost their powers, there's a team up movie happening and if Build genuinely now hasn't happened, how the fuck did the world merge happen? How are they in the main timeline?

Also it was really "cute" of them to make sure to point out that Nitpicking is bad in 2.5, shame that after Build it's only natural we were gonna have questions.


EDIT: Also can I just mention the implications of Sento and Ryuga losing their memories at that point in time? Ryuga's still a fugitive at that point, it was already weird enough that he just de-transformed infront of somebody and basically just went OH HI IT'S ME BANJOU THAT GUY THAT SUPPOSEDLY KILLED KATSURAGI TAKUMI AND IS AN ESCAPED FUGITIVE. This show is gonna make me go cross-eyed isn't it.

How so ?


Any ranting about continuity has been addressed in the 2.5 episode anyway. That's exactly why this episode has been made.
We can't complain about it anymore. It was made "crystal clear" : Zi-O is messing with timelines by creating paradoxes. Paradoxes that makes the previous show as if they never happened
and if people want to continue nitpicking (represented by Banjou's further interrogations "why do you have sato taro's face still ?" and "why do I still have evolt's DNA then ?"), the answer has been made : "Science can't explain everything sometimes" (which translates to : "shut up, it's magic" basically)

Oooooh I REALLY like the recap gimmick this year. They're a great contrast after Build. Also good to see that Another Build still has the freaky face animation. That Rider Kick is absolutely stupid and like Build's I love it. And Geiz is proving to be better than Zi-O in literally everything in terms of aesthetics. This gimmick for Another Riders reminds me of Zodiarts Switches in a way too. Also, thank you Zi-O writers, for reinforcing the fact my dumbass son and his boyfriend are a thing. Also goddamn do I love these monsters, hoping this means we see more gimmicks represented in them. ALSO HOLY SHIT THE FLYING FORMULAS FLOORED ME. Build becoming Takumi is odd considering Banjo but eh, time travel shenanigans. Geiz and Tsukuyomi living together with Sougo feels natural and Geiz taking a while to chew his food implies the future doesn't really have such quality food anymore. Anyway, enjoyable episode, next week, our boy Emu!

I deffo explained that wrong but what I meant is they showed two 2017's, the main timeline and the Skywall World.

The 2017 we see here is seemingly the main timeline so how did Sento and Ryuga even get there? If Build didn't happen then they would've never gotten to the main timeline, mind you I'm assuming this is the main timeline cause we didn't see the Skywall

I'm also not entirely a big fan of "Shut up it's magic" cause to me that just screams "We didn't think about this and we have no idea what to do with it". After a few more episodes I'll probably just accept it and enjoy the show but this one just bothered me too much.