LupinRanger VS PatRanger Episode 44- "The Truth Found!" Discussion
 

Noel reveals his story to the others, and the resulting revelations may shake both teams to their core.

That was a downer, so will the victims of zamigo be remain disease and impactful. It'll be a less cheesy ending.

LuPat 44 RAW:

http://www.miomio.tv/watch/cc412395/

This is Best Episode! I love it!!!! Noel's past looks really interesting. And Noel are not human after all....

Didn't expect Satoru is killed by Gangler. I really curious to the Satoru's death scene.

The new Gangler Monster are more smarter and dangerous than some of previous regular Gangler Monsters.

Sigh..too many stupid Gangler Monsters...

And the Siren PatKaiser looks cool and really strong too and the combined Siren PatKaiser finisher and X Emperor Gunner finisher looks really cool too. And yeah, SirenStriker are more designed for PatKaiser uppgrade....

i haven't caught up with the series in a bit but reading things i can't help but think that nobody really likes toku anymore, or at least what toku has become

i think we're in another 80s period for toku where its just kind of a thing that's here and it never really changes. i'm a big fan of standard toku formula but toei really does need to figure out how to do something truly creative instead of just sticking to the same things over and over again

i think we just need stronger villains, but villains don't sell well in japan so nobody really puts any real effort into them i guess

I was pretty iffy about the first half of the episode, regarding Noel's true backstory, but knowing the person he wants to bring back is pretty interesting. I kinda wonder if this show in the end will really just let him, and the other thieves, bring back someone from the dead. I have to imagine something is going to go awry with that wish.

As for the rest of it, it was pretty great. There was something really awesome about that scene where all the Patrangers transform, thanks to the dramatic angles and the melancholic music. I wanna say though, that move Tsukasa and Keichiro pull during fight might look cool but I'm pretty sure she should have broke Keichiro's arm! Siren PatKaiser better be a mainstay.

And I also really liked the scene at the very end, where the Lupinrangers once again put their guns together but include Noel in it too. That gesture in our minds is the strongest evidence of their bond and aligned goals, and seeing that really reaffirms that X is truly one of them. I don't quuuite think Noel is at that level with the Pats yet, but if the show tells me he is, I'll believe it.

Wow, so LupinVsPat has become the show to air grievances at for not just all of Sentai, but toku in general too.

Not a fan of Noel being a new race instead of a collection piece or a orphan Gangler. Also, it's nice that Arsene is old and probably did died quite a while ago. This episodes raise the question if zamigo killed his victims and use their skins for Gangler human disguises. He seems like the supplier and informant. Spooky stuff..

we've had two mediocre/bad rider series in a row and sentai is in a slump, not really in a good place for the genre

Build was mediocre? I beg to differ.

Well, both Rider and Sentai have never been more exciting to me than in recent times, so I definitely couldn't agree less.

By the way, I don't mean to signal you out specifically, but I just find the implication that Sentai hasn't been creative to be irksome, as if the whole VS concept isn't itself a new twist in spite of how well or not it's been executed. And so was the large dozen member space team from the previous year even if I wasn't over the moon with that show.

Umm....hmm.


Yeah, I can't really agree at all with this statement.

Kinda lame "revelation" to be honest. Noel is not human; he’s other-dimension human. Wow, that makes such a difference in the long run. Not.

To be honest the most shocking revelation of this episode was that the Ganglers actually kill and skin humans to make their disguises. Jesus. I mean it’s not that graphical, but still – shit.

Huh? Build and Ex-Aid are amazing. The only thing I would be willing to argue is if they are really good or "just" good, they're not even close to mediocre or bad.

I have to admit, I don't care about Sentai enough to tell if this is actually the case, however, the genre is fine.

There's way too much crazy stuff going on right now for it not to be. Ultraman keeps on trucking with amazing shows, they're about to branch out in the west and have an anime ready to get even more potential viewers interested. Garo got a new show, can’t tell you anything about it but it exists. Gridman of all things got an anime that blew everyone's socks off, there's an ongoing comic series about freakin' Redman, Amazons got a movie this year, and hell that's just the stuff my feeble mind can remember from the top of my head.

And Toku is more than just superhero shows too, there’s lots more going on in Japan we just don’t understand because we’re so focused on the one aspect of the genre we love.

I'm glad to see that hey kept up with Destra's death in the opening credits by making him disintegrate.

While this episode is supposed to be a revelation episode, somehow it feels like a filler episode. I thought Noel really wasn't a human. But he IS a human just not from our world. How disappointing.

Hmm,I start think that the wish might be not true and could be something else.
From Flashback Arsane and Dogranio look like both know and wait to met each other.

Dogranio Sama i Don't feel so good.

exaid is great, but i can't stand build. zio seems like its pretty bad from what i can tell

https://i.imgur.com/gNQWTbT.jpg

Holy crap, guys, they actually used Siren Striker right! I know this was in the preview but I'm still shocked to see it!

I wasn't any more enamored with last week's episode than usual, but I have to say, this one REALLY won me over. Despite the somewhat underwhelming nature of Noel not being human (the distinction being so minor the episode itself even has Noel admit it's basically just a technicality), the revelations that spring out of that fact are appropriately juicy. I actually suspected the person Noel wanted to bring back was Arsene Lupin himself, but it's still nice to have all this explicitly laid out.

What I actually find to be much more important than any of that, though, is all the drama surrounding Noel here, especially where it concerns the Patrangers, who I think were unarguably the real stars here. They essentially clear Noel's name completely independent of anything he does, and their continued faith in him and his motivations (especially on Keiichirou's part) seems to almost deliberately say more about how heroic they are than it does about him. Stuff like this is a huge part of the reason I actually like Noel. You can certainly argue his character could stand to be taken down a peg or two more, but in my opinion the show has never expected the audience to buy his hype, and, subtle as it is, he's had a clear character arc of learning to truly appreciate how much his teammates are too good for him (rather than the other way around), something emphasized all throughout this two-parter, especially with the very last scene in this episode.

One last thing to note is that they also did a better job with the foreshadowing than I expected. For example, while they cheated a bit by not having the special effect before Noel pulled his gun on the Patrangers last week, they also went out of their way not to show his facial expression when he pulled the trigger.

Just a darn good set of episodes, and the kind of solid story that makes me feel bad for saying episodes of this show not written by Junko Koumura are notably worse, which is definitely not the case here.

You know, this is a piece of wisdom I hear a lot, and I think we all take it for granted sometimes, but exactly what basis does this really have in fact? Can it really be that simple when Bandai is still pumping out Genm merchandise well after Kamen Rider Ex-Aid ended? Or when Ultraman's monsters are almost as iconic as he is?

I don't doubt there's some truth to this, but even with this very show, the cool guy anti-hero Lupinrangers are apparently infinitely more popular with kids than the straight-laced Patrangers.

The Ganglers don't kill humans for their disguises.
Keep in mind, the one guy that Touma recognized was "Killed" by Zamigo, but we established that Zamigo doesn't kill his frozen victims.

Granted, it would be some pretty strong weight for the Patrangers.

Anyway, I hate this episode. I hate Noel. I hate the half assed explanation for what Noel is. I hate that Siren Striker is back in Noel's hands. I hate that the next episode is filler. I hate that the Patrangers worked so hard for Noel. They truly are the stars of the show.

I want to like this show more, but I can't bring myself to do so because every episode, for each thing it does right (Such as the Patranger's working through their emotions), it'll take 3 more steps back (Literally everything else).
It's not helped that the show is more content with teasing future plots (Like with Gauche and Zamigo), but they spaced them too far apart, and with so few episodes remaining, it'll be resolved far too quickly for it to really feel substantial.

We know that Zamigo's freezing of people is a teleportation method. But we don't know the process in which the Ganglers get their disguises. For all we know, the people they take the appearances of are indeed dead.

Despite not being plot heavy and focus on sillier side, it's still entertaining with the 7 emotional acting and actions. It's just the writer don't want to give them the answers and we know these characters aren't dumb like the kind we see in let say ninninger. It would be nice if Noel betrayed Gangler to help Arsene(common krss trope) or a collection piece. Instead we have more question about the world building, timeline, age, lorde, and mythology behind Gangler world. Furthermore, it would be quite powerful if zamigo did supply his victims for other ganglers to "skin" in PG way of killing. Regardless, they'll get revived possibly The trio.

Fair enough for a personal point of view, but overall Build was very well received which contradicts your claim that it's bad for the franchise or even the genre as a whole.

Zi-O isn’t as good as Build or Ex-Aid so far, I give you that, but the merch sells like hotcakes 'cause past Rider gimmick and that's ultimately all they care about when they make these shows.

It might've been just a throwaway-line but man would that make for an excellent subplot.

But they already changed Zamigo from a cold-blooded murderer to an ice cube kidnapper so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

By the way they still didn't explain why Noel has to stay in France. Kogure scolded Noel when his Lupin Collection was stolen by Destra telling him to stay in France but didn't mention why

Overall a good episode, but my issues with the show still remain and I doubt that will change this late.

Can we just note how badly the Pats especially Pat 2 take it that Noel is possibly lying to them ? See that despair ?
Considering Noel is directly lying to their faces on a daily bases and does not see them as allies at all compared to the Lupins judging by the end scene in my opinion.

Will Pat 2 react witch such passion when he finds out that, yes, Noel is in fact lying to them constantly..... ? Or will the show just keep this status forever and ever into the future and every time the teams show up in other content....

Probably a case of plot rework at this point, so hard to say, it was probably rushed.

oh i'm fairly certain the whole "villains don't sell" thing is complete bunk in japan as much as it is in the west but i'm pretty sure that toy companies don't realize that. i feel like villain riders only get away with it because they have kamen rider in their names

in sentai, which does consistently have better villains than rider imo, we only get any merchandise for villains over here, even the villains that are actually popular don't tend to get anything (dark buster, lio, wolzard for example). i think if they gave villains a bit more of a push marketing wise, they could probably get some new sales

your point about ultraman monsters makes this even more obvious, ultramonsters are both villainous and so iconic that there are multiple series based around them. toei should take a note from ultraman and try to at least give us some toys for the major villains.

Or give us villains for sentai that actually get to be villains, and not set dressing for an entire year....Again...... "facedesk"

What on earth happened internally when it comes to villain plots ? We have not had active villains since ToQger at this point, instead it feels like they do less and less each year, okay let me be fair here they did not get to do as much as Kyoryuger though the main villains where vital for the monster of the week actually being a thing and often showed up aiding their creation, but I still like the ToQger villains god damn it !

The start of this Lupat Vs Patr was promising, the villains actually showed up in the episodes as part of the plot, actually doing things etc. Aaaaaaand then the rest of the series had.....Nothing...... T_T..

giving the villains plots means planning things out AND cutting out valuable "buy our toys" time in the show

and being honest i haven't been disappointed in a main sentai villain since deboss. genis and don armage may have done very little over the course of their series, but their final fights (ESPECIALLY genis') are some of the best in the series' history

and if you're like me and try to look into the themeing of each show, genis works perfectly as a villain for zyuohger, he's an antithesis of the team's main ideals. armage is too but its less clever than it was with genis, mostly because kyuranger's theme is very shallow

Mecha design comparison:

- Victory LupinKaiser looks similar to GokaiOh (Gokaiger)
- Siren PatKaiser looks similar to Travelion (Magiranger)

http://www.tokunation.com/attachment...1&d=1545236909

Because he and kogure are people from gangler world that why.
After Reveal Gochu target Noel Now.

No I do agree with you in regards to Deboss, its henchmen where my main love for the show overall in regards to the villains, the main villain leader not so much, but I still prefer ToQger there.

Loved Genis design, disliked how static he ended up being even if the final fight was good I do not feel Genis earned the quality of the fight, part of my issue with the villains was how Nalia ended up being treated at the end, they could have done a lot better with it but ended up not bothering. Overall I like the season and honestly have it as a favorite from the last seasons, the characters really helped.

Armage had a good fight as well, but dear lord did the season have some issues not aided by Lucky. But I could actually see myself watching it again in a few years.

I am not sure this season has earned that overall, it has been a bit to wonky, but I will not judge my overall view on it before it finishes, I still feel issues with how the series went and I still feel they rained the majority of abilities on the Lupins like candy which was clearly not intended considering the designs and sound effects on the toys already out, and it did hurt the show overall.

I agree with you on Genis being very static until the final episode, but that might be the point of his character. Still a problem that he didn't do much, but there was any foreshadowing towards his big twist I guess? Nalia being used as fodder is both thematically fitting, and narratively disappointing. She got a decent amount of screentime, but we never learned what her deal was when compared to the other villains, which really sucked.

Armage is a lot flatter of a character, but you can't say he didn't do anything, even if it was entirely in the last few episodes. I have to catch up with LuPat in order to gauge what's going on with the villains there, but i don't doubt that the final battle will be spectacular visually, even if the villains didn't do much.

I don't believe that lupin collection can grant a wish.

https://i.imgur.com/tTzfNlP.jpg

They have done a great job with the camera work this season, and I really hope they bring that into the upcoming potentially LAST run.

Question is if Bandai and Toei have learned why sentai is failing compared to rider, the merch is a major reason but so is the overall flat stories over the last years.

Parents are not going to be bying overpriced toys for sentai either, they are going to go for the rider toys, there are less of them and they do more, meanwhile the sentai toys do little and have low quality with the high price tag.

i doubt its going to be the last run. sentai went through this slump before, it can do it again. if anything, expect a kuuga style series to happen at some point

If Gangler knew all Lupin Collections can grant wish, I pretty sure they will trying to re-steal all Lupin Collections including VS Vehicles...

Agreed, though it is a pity it is happening now when suddenly sentai based shows have started surging more in popularity outside Japan, the ultra series is doing well enough to get a Hollywood movie project going as well.

The last Power Rangers film is getting a sequel as well, and it honestly was pretty okay as a starting movie to introduce characters etc. It helped that the Rita actor was hamming it up to fantastic levels.

What is weird is the fact that Rider has not shown up at all, especially with the super hero boom of the last decade, though it also annoys me that the Guyver has not gotten a proper revival either, on the plus side Guyver Dark Hero is still fantastic.

rider hasn't shown up because everyone is afraid of it becoming like masked rider, which is a 100% justified reason i suppose, but is also missing out on a large market i feel

While this is very true, Dragon Knight did okay, in my mind. The toys sucked ass, but the show was well done for what it had to work with and did with the characters.

Yeah, Unlikely that Dogranio didn't know about it If Collection can grant a wish

the show was not successful at all, finacially. the ratings were very bad on it, and the only reason it finished was because the channel thought the show was good, which is a one in a million thing in the world of television

Well, I enjoyed it very much. It was leap and bounds better that Masked Rider. And that's saying something since I grew up watching Masked Rider. Let's just say it didn't leave an impression beyond Ferbus. And I only have a soft spot for that hideous little mascot because of Verne Troyer (may he rest in peace).