Kamen Rider Zi-O Episode 26- "Geiz Revive 2019!" Discussion
 

Geiz must learn to master a dangerous new power, while Tsukuyomi decides to track down the mysterious origins of Another Zi-O...

I have to admit I'm a little confused so I'mma try to piece this together...

Tsukuyomi went back in time and saw Sougo and his Uncle leave the hospital, while Hiryu is left behind and curses Sougo.

Then Tsukuyomi calls Geiz and he informs her that he was not able to become Geiz Revive.

Tsukuyomi goes back further and attempts to murder Sougo in the bus, leading to the crash in the first place (the bus explodes LMAO how tf did anyone survive that).

Geiz also goes back in time and witnesses Tsukuyomi's murder attempt on Sougo.

Geiz returns and is able to become Geiz Revive and is determined more than ever to stop Sougo.

Soooooo... why? Is it because he is disappointed in himself that his inability to become Revive forced Tsukuyomi to take action? Why doesn't he also go back in time and try to stop the whole bus thing from happening in the first place? I'm hoping there is some kind of explanation next episode, but it looks like I'm in luck since we're revisiting the scenario and Schwarz and Tsukasa are present.

I can sympathize with Hiryu now after hearing his side of the story, but why doesn't Sougo remember any of this?

The fight scenes were great, but Geiz Revive Goretsu and his weapon look pretty lame. I really like Shippu though.

Subtle Decadriver noise during the Tsukasa reveal was a great touch.

Next week, black Woz becomes a Kamen Rider!

Shouldn't it take place around decade time in kuuga's world as reference Easter egg with what decade is wearing. Time travel is confusing and expensive with bad vfx cgi, but the rules and how the show execute the main characters and villains are horrible. Was surprised another zio isn't a two parter and whats up with tsukasa contract ?

I will admit, I was left a little bit perplexed by this episode.

We see Tsukuyomi going back to 2009 ( Decade year) to understand the link between Sougo and that other guy.

Then she's suddenly seen to "kill" Sougo on that bus....

I think it's not what it seems. I don't think she tried to kill him.

As for Geiz, well....his new form sure is underwelming...

I can't wait to see the next episode....scratch that, I can't wait to watch it with subs.

Did tsuku try to kill Sougo or not?

Quick question are we supposed to assume Tsukuyomi is dead or injured because I feel like we are?

Tsukiyomi probably are killed in bus accident. Why Geiz didn't trying to go to previous time before bus accident and save Tsukiyomi ?

I think in Time Travel story concept, human can be revived......

Bloody terrible writing, way to drop the ball here.

I don't know, I find it too soon to judge since, well at least for me, since I don't fully understand japanese.

Well, now that subs are up, let's get into the details of this Episode........UMM, WHAT?!! There are just so many complications that come up with this Episode....

OK, I'm gonna go out on a limb here & say, I'm not the biggest fan of how quick Tsukuyomi has all of a sudden flipped off on Sougo ever since Zi-O II. I get it, it's apparently a big sign that he's going into becoming Ohma Zi-O, but c'mon now, she's been friendly with the guy for, like, 20 Episodes, and NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN she's willing to throw all that away?!! I could understand if maybe, she tried to talk Sougo out of it, but he refused multiple times....or if Sougo started showing some malicious tendencies? Heck, maybe if they waited until the Kikai Episode to conclude that he's actually manipulating the future unconsciously, sure, that would've been a little more acceptable. But him just getting this power--and mind you, he used it to save GEIZ OF ALL PEOPLE, you'd think she'd be a little more thankful--is enough to say "he's too big of a threat now?!!" Not buying this big shift in character. And to go as far as to ATTEMPT TO KILL CHILD SOUGO.....WOW. JUST WOW. I mean, maybe she was doing something else, as next Episode might reveal? But if it's true that's what she was doing, then that makes her lose brownie points with me BIG TIME.

Also, GEIZ.....He's been flip-flopping NUMEROUS TIMES in the show. If this was more of just a simple "I'm here to kill you" to "Alright, you're not so bad, so I'll keep watch" to "NOPE, KILL HIM," THEN that's a decent transition for him that isn't so wild. But the way the show has written Geiz's conflict with Sougo has been very offputting for quite a while, and it's irritating. I would totally love this Episode's conclusion if not for that.

Now, all this being said....WHY does Geiz Revive's RideWatch function via willpower?! In fact, the way it's manifested is just pure nonsense if you think about it. Why & how is this item, which is the key to defeating Zi-O, created via RideWatches from Kamen Riders from the future who are created via, apparently, Zi-O's imagination manipulating the future?!! It's just a huge headache on why it works this way. I love the functionality of Geiz Revive in combat, and its debut was awesome (White Woz with the "IWAE!!!" was fun), but logically this form makes little sense in its existence.

SIGH......Anyway, looking forward to seeing WAGA BOII TSUKASA coming back next Episode. Hopefully he helps make this show's quality bump up a bit more.

It's like the f writer decided here's more drama for people complaining. So out of characters without context explaining what happened to their personalities. Tsuki spend 20 episodes sucking sougo up. Time paradox mess,

I'm in the same boat as everyone else. What the hell is going on with Tsukuyomi's character? And same with Geiz. It's like the writer prioritises the plot but contradicts or changes the characters to fit said plot. It reminds me of the Man of Steel series written by Bendis. Jor-El returns and takes Jon and Lois to explore space. Problem is, when Superman last saw Jor-El, he was just freed from being Mr. Oz then taken away by a beam of blue light. But when Superman sees him again, he acts like none of that even happen, just a casual "oh hey dad, what are you doing here?". And this is cos Bendis prioritises his plot over continuity.

And Geiz Revive is powered by willpower. So to activate it, Geiz needs to reaffirm that he must kill Zi-O. So how is this achieved? He sees Tsukuyomi try to kill child Sougo and pretty much causes an accident that kills everyone but Sougo and Hiryuu. I'd understand if he felt angry that Tsukuyomi was forced to do this and blames Sougo but we dont really get that implication. We just see him seeing her trying to kill kid Sougo, accident happens, Geiz is sad, returns to 2019 and activates Geiz Revive. Uhhh... okay...

On the note of Geiz Revive. I did like the debut but Revive Goretsu is too bulky and ugly. However, Revive Shippu looks much better than the magazine scans.

I'm hoping next week's episode gives us some answers. Cos we sure need them.

Reading all the comments here confirms exactly what I've been feeling about Kamen Rider Zi-O.......this is the WORST Kamen Rider series since Ghost,which was terrible,but this clusterf*ck of a show....well,it DOES have Decade, and at least the toys will drop in price soon after this is over. Save your money and WAIT,the Figures and other items will be greatly discounted...soon,based on the horrible "story telling"(???I have NO IDEA WTF is going on now,so confusingly badly written) and direction of this show. Ahhh only a few more months of this craptastic show, and this ALL goes away to be forgotten to time,ironically...

I'm holding my judgment until the endgame.
I mean, we know close to nothing and we are already at more than the half of the series if you think about it.

I'm pissed at how they are handling Tsukuyomi for the moment.

I'm just curious and to me, it's not the shitfest we had with Ghost.

I still don't understand what they want to do with this series and I don't know if they really planned ahead anything.

If I recall correctly and correct me if I'm wrong, the director, screenwriter for each episodes or "arc" aren't always the same.

I wonder if it's not because of that that the show is inconsistent quality-wise.

Tsukiyoki looking like she caused the bus crash is clearly a fake-out. (I'd laugh if it turns out to be Decade's fault, though.)

The problem is how that event leads to Geiz Revive. Oh the show could definitely elaborate but... I kinda don't expect it to. I'm pretty used to this show just brushing off egregious questions and coming up with new stuff/rules literally every two episodes, though this would be a particularly egregious example.

Actually I think a lot of the problems come from the show actually not telling instead of showing, which I don't usually say. What is going on through Geiz's head? We have no clue, and I wish I could just give the benefit of the doubt that it'll make sense in hindsight but it's most definitely not earned so I'm kinda already upset at this as a preface.

Anyhow Geiz Revive is really cool but I do not like his weapon at all.

Yes, Tsukiyomi character is weird in recent episode. The other problem is White Woz character. I think the White Woz's character development is really boring. Compared to Prime Woz (Black Woz), Prime Woz have better character than White Woz.

I mean, it wasn't all of sudden. She said she was scared after Sogo showed Oma Zi-O's powers and left, but was still talking like she didn't trust White Woz either, then when they learned he was warping reality with his dreams then she decided he needed to be eliminated immediately (although the bus scene is an obvious misdirection since we're getting it again next week).

What you people forget is that her "siding" with Sogo was extremely superficial. She was against killing an innocent, but was away from most of his big character moments and struggles, just sitting in the sidelines. She wasn't really bonding with him in any deep way.


Using the power of evil against evil is a basic essence of Rider. So, the Watch that defeats Oma Zi-O coming from Zi-O's own power makes perfect sense for this franchise.

As far as the willpower thing goes, I guess it's just due to how Ridewatches work in general. They're born from the essence of the Rider, which is why the Shinobi watch only could be created once Rentaro had the mindset that could lead him to become a Rider in the future. So, Geiz had to have the mindset that could lead to Geiz Revive in order to create the Geiz Revive Watch.

The reason why I don't shit on the series is because of the "show but don't tell" mindset.

It's something I like, I don't need to have everything spelt out to me. I like to think for myself.

As I said earlier without seeing the subs, I think that what you see Tsukuyomi doing is not what it seems.

Also...still waiting to see the subs tonight so that I can finally make my mind concerning this episode. I just wish subs would be as fast as it was for Build.

I mean it all makes sense if you think about it. You also have to go for the more "Feels vs. Reals" mentality and not overthink things too much if you wanna have fun with the show. Cause to be honest, I see way too many people overthinking things which leads to them being confused and angry about this show.

I mean Tsukuyomi, while a bit jarring, makes a lot of sense in context as to why she changed sides. It's not like she was actually friends with Sougo, she was just trying to be the angel on the shoulder really. Only Sougo saw her and Geiz as friends. She was just trying to be nice and give the benefit of the doubt. But Zi-O II and Kikai were the things that really changed her mind.

Though it's clear she still has some kind of soft spot for Sougo considering the scenes with her on the bus are clear misdirects.

Geiz meanwhile it makes sense that he's flip-flopping a lot because he's the one actually interacting with Sougo constantly. Sougo's supposed to be this big bad overlord in the future, but the current Sougo, while there is a slight dark aura about him, isn't really that bad tbh. Geiz is getting to know the softer side of Sougo more, thus it's why he's flip-flopping constantly. It's just that Tsukuyomi's reckless actions in 2009 and her getting caught up in the bus crash is what finally makes Geiz have the resolve in order to make Geiz Revive.

Geiz just doesn't want anyone else to sacrifice their life or put themselves in mortal danger to do a mission that he himself is supposed to do. So to stop anyone else from dying trying to stop Oma Zi-O, he'll defeat Oma himself.

Also can I just say I love how the episodes with Another Zi-O are basically just Metal Sonic vs. Sonic from the Sonic OVA.

I don't have any problem with Geiz because I understand his struggle...

I'm wondering if leaving Tsukuyomi on the side bench for the first part of the series was intentional at the end...that would surely explain her behavior now.

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one to understand some of the things we see that way.

A thought just occurred to me:
Is possible that sougo unconsciously created the geiz revive/white woz timeline to make sure geiz was strong enough to stop him if he does become oma zi-o?

You know what, that's entirely a possibility considering the revelation involving Kikai.

The more I think about this the more it makes sense:
This perfectly explainss why white woz and the future riders start apearing right after sougo confronted his future self

Actually, she joined the "let's kill Sougo" bandwagon before even learning of his dreams warping reality. It's in the first of the Kikai episodes. She learns about his new powers in the second episode of the Kikai episodes, which only reaffirms her decision to have Sougo eliminated. So in a way, it is all of a sudden. She went through 20ish episodes of "maybe Sougo can change and I'll try to help him" to "welp, he has an Oma Zi-O power. He's irredeemable at this point. Time to eliminate him".

Also, does she know that he used his time rewind power to save her as well, just food for thought?

I'm not gonna lie, this episode was entertaining as hell, and as much as frustrating at the same time. This week rule sent to the trashbin is that an original rider power can beat its another rider, because Another ZI-O is the natural weakness of Zio. Or that's just Woz making up stuff.
Ah, Decade season 2 continues aswell.

Hey, everyone, guess what time it is!

https://i.imgur.com/mahcwwG.jpg

Well, whether I like it or not, it seems to be time for me to remember MY mission, and embrace my fate as Tokunation's eternal contrarian, as I head towards the future of being this site's #1 Geiz fan on top of everything else. I guess at least Zi-O as a whole isn't totally despised, right? :p

I adored this episode, but apparently that's largely predicated on me not considering Geiz's character particularly confusing. I haven't gone off on anyone for not "getting" him, because to some extent I understand where people are coming from, but considering his perpetually growing spotlight in the series, I should lay my cards on the table and say I don't think Geiz is ANYWHERE near as wishy-washy or inconsistent as he's often made out to be. If anything, he's gone in a straight line of warming up to Sougo since the start. You might raise examples like the Gaim episodes to counter this, but if you focus on his actions, as much as his words, you'll quickly see how much of his the latter is just bravado. From stuff as small as him remembering that chicken at the end of episode 12 to moments as huge as him literally giving Sougo his belt so he could be Zi-O again in 16 (while also telling him he'll take care of Sougo IF he becomes an evil overlord, implicitly stating that he now believes there's a chance that won't happen), his development has followed a clear path.

Even in this very episode, his decision to step up and fight Zi-O is motivated by him witnessing Tsukuyomi's actions in 2009, and while I'm admittedly unclear on whether or not he's under the impression she died in that bus crash (stuff like this being the reason I get why people don't like Geiz), people got hurt either way, and he clearly blames his own inaction for this. He's always been a guy plagued by doubt, and you'll note during the climax he never says or does anything to give any indication he actually wants to be doing this. Only that he has to.

Zi-O has never been a perfectly written show, and I'm sure you can find plenty of hiccups in this episode if you go looking for them, but it also should get the credit it deserves for the things it does right. And to prove it, I'm going to further defend Tsukuyomi's actions even though I still don't like her. I'm shocked I even need to comment on this, but her on that bus is obviously just a tension-building cliffhanger deal until we see the details of what went down in the next episode. I guess this proves what I've said about her being a plank of wood, but the idea that shooting a child seems like something the show would have her do is just absurd.

With that out of the way, I can also mention I loved Geiz Revive. Lately I'm going through a bit of a spoilerphobe phase with Zi-O for some reason, so seeing this episode was actually the first good look I've gotten at it, and I thought it was awesome. The buzzsaw is a definite plus. As is his sick background music, which is exactly the kind of track I imagined us getting more of when it was announced Toshihiko Sahashi was doing the soundtrack for this show.

It has also been quite unnatural, a lot of the people here hate it and keep bringing it up.

But I and a few others have also wondered if it is unnatural for a reason, that she is being manipulated, either by White Woz, or one of the timejackers (( next episode preview )), both etc.

There are a few options for what is potentially going on, the fact that Sougo is clearly able to manipulate time without even realizing it seems to also motion towards something or someone else actively manipulating Sougo into doing so, for whatever they are after.

We still have not had any singularity point characters show up in the show, Den-O is in the movie but I have no idea how that goes nor do I want spoilers for it.

Decade is a hero even with his very shitty ways of being one, and he usually has a really good reason behind it, so will have to wait and see.

In regards to the show being worse then Ghost according to some here, no, I disagree quite a bit here, Ghost had next to no characters worth a damn, the main character was probably one of the most boring characters I have ever seen, at least Zi-O has been entertaining even with the negative sides, while Ghost was one of the most biggest snores I have had.

But yeah, Zi-O is not well written, not going to argue there, but I still say it is entertaining, and it at least has some merits.

It depends on how the overall puzzle falls together.

Zi-o could still redeem itself, but there are some things that I don't want to happen anymore.

Fuck any bromance unless it's Tsukasa or Woz and Sougo. Murderyomi and Geiz can go fuck off already.

Heure already senses that Schwartz has some plan that he hasn't shared. It's looking really obvious that he's going to be the final villian.

Geiz Revive is looking strong but like all secondary riders, he won't be the most powerful rider for long. That hideous final form is coming pretty quick. This might be the worst suit season ever. I doubt I'll be buying any figures from this season.

Masaki Suda's drama that just ended was good. I liked that before becoming a teacher he was a tokusatsu suit actor along with the actor that played Misora's dad/Evolto. I thought that was pretty funny. Too bad he's so busy that he can't come back and do a fang joker or just a W episode and yes I know that another W was in the movie so it is likely too late, but I'd love to see him back for a couple of episodes where Phillip went overboard with researching singing and became an idol like he is in real life.

decade was the real killbus all along

W Tribute Episodes in series is still possible to be happened. Since we already have Another Double in movie, maybe Another Eternal is really good choice for monster in W Tribute Episode. I think its still interesting if Shotaro or Terui are appeared as returning character in Zi-O series......

She was still talking like they had no choice but working with White Woz due to Sogo's power growing, like the far future foresight. It's only after the reveal that he was manipulating reality that she was unquestioningly with White Woz and never talked about him in a negative way at all.

Another W itself could still appear again since it had no revealed identity in the movie. That seems like an easy way to leave space for the tv show to cast anyone as that later.

Man I'm only looking forward to the next episode because Tsukasa is back.

Anyone else notice in the preview for the next episode that Swartz is dressed almost exactly like the guy in Sougo's dream? You know, the one who told him that he'll become a King. That would actually be a really good twist: Swartz is actually a secret ally or servant for Oma Zi-O that founded the Time Jackers so that they could (unintentionally) help create Oma Zi-O's future powers (aka, the Ridewatches). The Another Riders remove the Rider's history/powers. Zi-O and/or Geiz need to get the complete Ridewatch in the present before going back to defeat the Another Rider in the past then give a blank Ridewatch to a Kamen Rider to create the Ridewatch. Putting it into basics and simplify, the existence of a Another Rider warrants the need and creation of a Ridewatch. So the Time Jackers would've been founded in the belief they can make their own King with a Another Rider but Swartz is using them to create Oma Zi-O's powers.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was true since Swartz clearly has his own ulterior motives and pretty much works solo or just uses the other Time Jackers for his own needs. He can travel to potential futures (he was able to take Shinobi's powers), his powers as a Time Jacker are much stronger, and he creates Another Riders that the other Time Jackers don't know about (Another Zi-O). He's also the only Time Jacker whose name isn't derived from another word for "time" or anything related to time (Heure is French for hour/time, Ora means hour/now in Italian and could be derived from the Spanish and Portugese word for hour, hora).

Hmm...interesting, Another W's true identity still unknown.

I really curious to how Another W is defeated in movie....

In series, usually the true identity will be exposed after Another Rider is defeated by Kamen Rider....

Hmm....I hope the W Armor will be used again in series especially in W Tribute Episode.....

Regarding Tsukuyomi, I'm still not fully convinced that White Woz didn't somehow orchestrate her betrayal with his OP future-writing book. It's very possible he set up the events leading to Tsukuyomi's possible death to give Geiz the resolve he needed to become Geiz Revive.

And going back to Geiz, his character gets a bit of a bad rap I feel. Sure, he flip-flops, but it makes sense given the context of the story. Oma Zi-O killed his family, but he comes to the past to find a young man who, as of now, wouldn't even think about doing such a thing. As Fish said, Geiz has been warming up to him and any time he does talk about killing Zi-O, it's been clear that Geiz is all talk and no action, and I think that's the point. That's been his entire character arc leading up to this moment.

His indecisiveness and inaction resulted in other people having to make the necessary sacrifices, thus putting them in harm's way. And I think seeing Tsukuyomi resort to such drastic measures that resulted in her death/near-death finally forced him into action. And you know what? I don't even think Tsukuyomi was trying to kill Sougo in the first place and it's a misdirection. But as long as Geiz sees it that way, it doesn't matter.

Honestly, there's so many different factors at play here that I feel perhaps people may be jumping the gun on this a bit too soon? I mean, you've got the Timejackers, you've got Scwartz who seems to have his own entirely different agenda, you've got White Woz, you've got Black Woz, you have Sougo's own future creating powers, and who the hell knows what role Tsukasa is playing in all of this. I think we should just see how it plays out before jumping to call this the "worst Rider show ever".

Yeah, at this point, I'm expecting him to be the big villain behind everything.

Swartz learned about Sogo's powers somehow, tells him during his childhood about how he needed to become king to save the world from something no one else can, and due to Sogo's powers that creates Oma Zi-O and everything around him. Then he also creates the Time Jackers to work on a way to take over all that and use it for himself, thus Another Zi-O (which is likely just another middle step in this plan), which seemed to be a secret from the other Time Jackers.

Agreed, overall there are issues with the show most of us will agree with, but it is far to early to judge the full plot.

It should be said that Hora is probably on his side, there is very little redeming about her as a person at this point with how she and Swartz fully planned on turning Uhr into a mindless puppet, Uhr will likely end up on Sougos side I believe.

So Hora is likely part of whatever is going on behind the scenes, or she is just flat out evil which is also possible.

Decade is clearly after the big fish in all of this though, honestly I find the speculation and possible upcoming plot very entertaining overall, and I cannot say I had any of that with a season like Ghost.

In before we actually get the reveal of Tsukasa and Narutaki being the same person during this season to tie up that little likely cut due to time in the original Decade.