Kamen Rider Zi-O Episode 32: "Unknown Memory 2001!" Discussion
 

The Another Agito Army is at full power. The only way to stop them is to find the TRUE Agito...

Best tribute by a long-shot. This was PERFECT.

Starting the episode off with us seeing Agito using Storm and Flame forms was just the tip of the iceberg.

Overall: What a phenomenal episode. Shoichi is with us the entire time. He interacts meaningfully with the Kujidoji crew. The scene where he tries Junichiro's cooking and critiques it is great comedy. When he consoles Tsukuyomi with his cooking at the restaurant by making parallels between her and his former self, that's just great writing. Hearing the name "Tetsuya Sawaki", acknowledging the power of Agito as a way to awaken other humans with the potential to evolve - all of this shows a considerable amount of respect to the established lore and story of the show it is paying tribute to. It even justifies the reuse of the og Another Agito suit because it's essentially creating more variations of Agito, which Kaoru's Rider form was originally supposed to depict. I loved seeing Shoichi donning the G3 suit again. The Time Jacker's using the RideWatch to turn Another Agito into an evil KR Agito was an interesting deviation from what they have been doing thus far and shows great potential for future tribute plots. They did a lot of this great stuff in the Blade tribute but it's perfected here.

I think it's quite interesting what is happening with Tsukuyomi. Thanks to Shoichi, she accepts that who she was in the past isn't necessarily reflective of who she is now - but Woz has caught on. His conversation with Schwarz helped add layers to the mystery. He says she comes from the same place as him - where did he get his powers?

They did not skimp out on special effects this episode. Holy. You can tell they only had two or three Another Agito suits but the way they used a mix of close-ups, look-a-likes and compositing was nothing short of effective. When you see the Rider trio and Agito fighting the horde of them in the town plaza, it's hard to believe the production photo that show the place almost completely empty. While there are some moments where the effect isn't quite so tight, it's mostly seamless and a result of smart filmmaking.

Not only that, but the special attacks and CG used were unexpectedly bombastic too. Geiz and Woz's speed battle resulted in some badass-looking finishers. Zi-O Trinity's sword finisher was super dope. And Zi-O and Agito Trinity's double Rider Kick: HOLY CRAP.

Speaking of the Trinity x Trinity battle, THIS IS HOW YOU DO A TRIBUTE FIGHT SEQUENCE. When I heard the intro lick to "Believe Yourself" I nearly exploded with excitement. My hope for the series was at least a return of leitmotifs and I have been let down until now. But this gives me some hope. If they can utilize a legacy insert song as well as they did here in future tributes, I will instantly forgive all the mediocrity of Zi-O's first quarter. That was simply one of the hypest moments I have experienced in Rider. It's amazing what a little music can do.

Favourite part of the episode was when Woz was giving his speech and then saw Agito turn into Trinity as well. When Zi-O's "Woz" arm does that excited little flail - that's hilarious and simply fantastic character acting.

I think it's really cool how they did the passing of the torch this time around. Agito could keep his power, but instead gives it to Sougo respectfully. There's no stealing happening here. And like the Blade tribute before it, he remembers everything that happened while he was a Rider. I wish all the tributes were like this. That being said, it's nice that they responded to the complaints about the show and learned from mistakes. What we are getting now are some of the best tribute episodes I have seen from any Toku show.

Next up, Hibiki! They have picked some interesting people for the returning cast but thanks to these recent episodes, I am more than positive that they can think up a great story that respects the original show's roots. And Kuuga Armor is making it's TV debut!

Since you brought it up...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq_phgQdoGM

Gosh I forget how awesome this song is.:rock:
By the way folks, the singer of this song is Naoto Fuga, the voice behind the opening and ending themes of Megaranger. And for those who like vocaloid stuff, Naoto Fuga is THE VOCAL SOURCE for Vocaloid Kaito.

Appropriate too since both Kuuga and Hibiki were works of Shigenori Taketera. :rock:

Wow....With Blade and now Agito which is one of my favourite Rider...I must say that I'm impressed...that's how you do good tributes.

Zi-O is finally succeeding where Decade couldn't....

Though...I wonder why we are getting those awesome two parters when what we got during the first part of the series was quite...unequal in terms of quality...

Does anyone know why or have a theory?

SLOWLY winning me over with the tribs..

This is decade and zio tribute done right . I get not every rider will voluntarily hand over their powers, but memory erase plot was dumb. We want them to come back as them not the shadow of them like au versions. Hibiki gets replaced by zeronos. Rumors that hoppers are back, so maybe no tendou or gattack. Four more tributes left after hibiki. Well be at kabuto, deno, kiba, and dirba. If brain isn't producing a ride watch then we'll be doing tributes up to epsiode 42 if ginga, final form zio, and movie tie in doesnt get invoked in their own arc. Diend, decade, ohma, another zio, and time jacked tsuki still need resolutions in their mini plot.

I hate myself because I can never resist coming here and reading about the episode long before subs are out!

These last two tribues makes me wonder if they stopped doing the tributes for a while just to give them a chance to retool the tributes and try to come up with better ones. If so, it seems like they have succeeded. Haven't seen this one yet as I'm waiting for the subs, but Blade felt like the true ending to the main show, rather than just a tribute. Hope this keeps up.

Now they have to explain the whole memory erase stuff. Why did it happen and why the pre-Decader riders are not memory erased (except Faiz.)

It might also be that they had more lead time on these to get cameos sorted away before they had to write the plots.

I wouldn't get my hopes up. They don't and most definitely won't. Best explanation is that they realised that plot point just sucked and stopped doing it.

And honestly I'd be with them on that.

That would make sense because they would have to deal with showing off all the first quarter forms, the exceptions being Drive and Ghost

Pleasantly surprised at how early the subs came out for this episode and what an episode it is. isn't it. I failed to say it the last episode but it really is great to see Shouichi and Mana again. And even Omuro as a representative of the G3 trio.

So many great things about this episode. Just watching Agito use his other forms was great to watch.

And Woz! How hilarious was he during the whole trinity form. I swear his addicted to his speeches now. And the look on Tsukiyomi's face during that moment just sold it for me.

So next will be Hibiki. I'm like the others not really too thrilled that Kiriya will be representing Hibiki since I really didn't like him during the show, but at least Todoroki is there. I wonder why they didn't get Ibuki's actor for this too since he just did Ryusoulger? Would have been nice to see Hibiki, Ibuki and Todoroki together.

I thought they already explained it? It’s because the Another Riders are now being created in the present as opposed to the past.

Of all the cool tribute things I was expecting (and the show has really been raising its bar on that lately), I never thought we'd get the return of Believe Yourself. That was such a big part of the original series, though, and it was so fantastic to hear it again. I only wish I hadn't already read that it was coming, because I would have completely flipped my shit if it had been a surprise.

The older ones only permanently lost their memories when the ridearmour was summoned, and because of the new special ridewatches it's no longer nessecary to use those.

A. It's mostly because of the creation of a Another Rider in the year the Kamen Rider debuted. E.g. Another OOO is created in 2010, the year OOO debuts, meaning OOO's history and powers were erased.

B. It's shown that if a Another Rider is not created in the debut year of the Kamen Rider they're based off, it doesn't remove their history and powers. E.g. Another Blade was made in 2019 instead of 2004, meaning Blade and Chalice kept their history and powers before Another Blade took the latter and it was "purified" into the Blade and Chalice Ridewatches.

C. The activation and proper use of a Legend Rider's Ridewatch also takes their history and powers. Since Sougo hasn't used (except for Faiz & Kuuga) the majority of the Phase 1 Heisei Era Kamen Rider's Ridewatches, their history hasn't been changed. Although I assume this only happens if A happens since Sougo uses the Ryuki Ridewatch in the Decade Ridewatch but Shinji is implied to have at least kept his memories even after its "activation".

FYI, the official reason Riders are keeping their memories and powers now, according to Shirakura's Twitter, is that "Time Paradoxes from the early use of Zio II, plus Geiz Revive's existence, screwed the timeline so much that they can't strip it from history because it's already messed up beyond belief."

I prefer everyone else's here, to be honest.

Has Sougo used Kuuga armor in canon thought? Heisei Generations Forever is considered non-canon, right?

When did Sougo uses Ryuki ridewatch? In the Rider Time Ryuki?

Will there ever be episodes where Sougo return the powers to Kamen Rider's proper owner, to give us a total Heisei Kamen Riders Finale against Ohma Zi-O? Let's just wait and see.

Holy hell did Agito luck out; that was legitimately the best tribute so far!! It's simple, but when you just let the Rider be the Rider and play their BGM with a big 'ol Rider Kick? It does friggin' wonders!

But that wouldn't have worked if the rest of this two-parter wasn't such a good Agito tribute itself! Thematic callbacks; narrative arc parallels; getting to see the future of the returning characters... I wish we got more Omuro and had him directly interact with the rest of the cast, but otherwise this was brilliant. I'm so glad I watched the series before this, I was so happy to see it done justice...

Hey everyone, guess what time it is!

https://i.imgur.com/buAXa8g.jpg

Time for me to pick my jaw up off the floor, because I've got myself a new favorite episode of Zi-O!

I can't even believe how perfect this was. It's good that everyone here appreciates how excellent this arc is, because there's no way I can do it justice. Beautiful direction that feels on the level of a Rider movie, really sharp writing that's just brimming with love for Agito, the return of the first and best insert theme in Heisei Rider history. It's all totally stellar.

The significance of stuff like BELIEVE YOURSELF playing is pretty obvious, so instead I'll single out the way Shouichi was written for praise. Not even because the way he helped out Tsukuyomi was exactly the kind of thing I've been wanting out of the tributes since day one (and the fact that Sougo wasn't the one getting advice somehow made it even better), but simply that his manner of speaking, which was always pretty unique and characterful among Rider protagonists, was captured perfectly by Nobuhiro Mouri here. Granted, a lot of this was probably in the performance too, but the flavor of his dialogue was 100% authentic in a way that stuck out to me more than any of the other returning characters so far.

Seriously, these episodes were so good they made me like Tsukuyomi. I'm still just sitting here in awe. The only thing that could've made it better was if Toshihiko Sahashi did new versions of his own music from back in Agito, but first of all, BELIEVE YOURSELF, and second of all, we've still got Hibiki and Den-O tributes where that can happen. It probably won't, but then, I would've never guessed we'd be hearing an old insert theme in Zi-O, either.

Oh, and on the subject of the Another Riders, I remember they explicitly raised the question during the Quiz arc, but I can't remember what the answer was or if it even applies to the arcs we're getting now. Honestly, even if it's a total plot hole, I think episodes like this make a compelling case that the ends justify the means here.

Sougo will use the Kuuga Armor in next week's episode (in-series debut).

Sougo and Geiz receive the Ryuki and Knight Ridewatches when they meet Shinji in Rider Time Ryuki. As Zi-O Decade Armor, Sougo inserts the Ryuki Ridewatch to access Decade Armor Ryuki Form (a Final Form Time form)

With the time paradox in place, Zi-O is slowly but surely becoming Kamen Rider Gokaiger. I'm a 100% certain that at the end of the show they go back and return all the powers, I'll be surprised if Toei starts the new era by literally erasing the past 20 years.

The Quiz arc received an explanation... in the official site. Apparently the script had a scene explaining it, but the director (Ghost's) for some reason decided to cut it.

Basically, because the Ride Watch was created in the past, it couldn't erase Quiz because the only reason he was in the past in the first place was because he was a Rider, so if his Rider history had been erased and he never went to the past, the Watch itself also would be erased.

The current case seems different though, and I don't think there has been an official explanation yet, although the characters did note in the Blade arc that these Another Riders are different due to being created in the present rather than the series' year and the official site just said it was a paradox.

Edit: I just read about the Shirakura explanation above, I hadn't seen it yet.

Shirakura seems to see everything as completely separate from each other, but even the staff under him doesn't seem to work like that, considering how Sogo got the Kuuga and Double Watches from the movie that Shirakura claimed to not feature the Sogo from the tv show.

I think that's likely happening towards the ending. Don't forget the early tease about a battle with Riders from all around the timeline. Some of the guest Rider actors (Sento, Beast and now Kenzaki and Shouichi) and the future Riders also didn't get flowers, so we probably will see them popping up again at that point.

Not much to say that you all haven't already said. One of the best Heisei tribute episodes. Possibly my favorite part was the competition between Woz Shinobi and Geiz Whirlwind in the battle.

But...now we're also back to the question of who will become Oma Zi-O. My betting money is on Tsukuyomi now instead of Schwartz. She's not coming across as a goddess like Gaim's Mai. But we're at less than 20 episodes, with five watches left, which means settle that question in 16 episodes for five watches and leave two to final battle.

One quick little addendum I wanna make to further explain why I love this episode so much: They specifically went out of their way to show off all three of Agito's base forms at the start before having him use Trinity at the end. Which means even someone who knows literally nothing about Agito would still be able to fully grasp the significance and subsequent gags with Zi-O Trinity.

Stuff like this is why I keep banging on about how tight Zi-O's scripts are. That kind of attention to detail is one of the most impressive things about this show to me and lately every episode is full of bits like this.

Well that explains why I don't remember getting an answer. :lol

In talking with a friend of mine I think the whole paradox situation Shirakura is saying that Zi-O II and Revive have caused is not quite right. There is a paradox responsible for the Another Riders we have gotten recently but its the one created by Another Zi-O

Another Zi-O, in theory, should have been a reset to our cast and story due to how the show established Another Riders to that point but it didn't he existed alongside Zi-O and didn't rob him of his powers. I think the creation of Another Zi-O somehow broke the system the Another Riders work under. We get the good of having them exist alongside the proper Riders but we get the downside of them gaining the ability to do things way beyond what past Another Riders have done.

Another Blade is somehow able to turn Blade and Chalice human, still don't quite get how that works for Chalice but that is a conversation for another day, and able to essentially turn itself into a Joker. Another Agito is able to replicate himself and I think each of his replication might have a copy of the Another Agito Ridewatch in them, hard to tell from the episode itself.

Anyway, that is just my two cents on the whole situation, in reality, I think the show just went under a soft reboot post Another Zi-O.

This makes quite a bit of sense and would be a good way to explain how Oma Day wasn't able to take place.

I think Another Zi-O ridewatch was created in the another future timeline by Schwartz, by way of Geiz defeating Zio. That's why Zi-O still has his base power in this timeline.

Yeah.....I don't even have words for this episode. One of my favorite Kamen Rider episodes and arcs PERIOD.


What a damn great payoff to have Agito and Zi-O team up against an army of Another Agitos to goddamn BELIEVE YOURSELF, which, as Fish previously mentioned, is the OG and BEST Heisei Kamen Rider insert song.

Zi-O....you have officially won my heart.

Man this episode was awesome.

It hit all the right buttons for me: The Zi-O plot points brought up were generally interesting, Tsukuyomi getting some much needed spotlight was excellent and the Agito stuff was just amazing.

Seeing these actors again and seeing them doing what they do really brought me back to the time I was watching Agito. It’s amazing how they have changed over the years yet seeing them again leaves no doubt as to who they are… when Shouichi said "Henshin" all kinds of feelings instantly came back to me. And then the BG song… wow.

Yeah, this was Zi-O’s best tribute yet. Ghost had a lot of heart and some cool references that even someone who generally disliked it cold love, Blade brought back lots of characters and gave them a fitting end, but Agito? Agito just came back. The characters were there, they intertwined with the Zi-O crew in an ingenious way (Shouichi and Tsukuyomi’s talk was excellent) and the action just toped it all.

Really, really good stuff. Please more of this, especially for the Kiva episodes.